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Signing FF could be Lambert's biggest mistake thus far...

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[quote user="GJP"]

[quote user="sgncfc"] Surely he is no better as a back up than Rudd?[/quote]

I would say Forster is a significantly better goalkeeper than Rudd.

 

I''d be fine seeing either Ruddy or Forster in goal in the Premier League. Seeing Rudd''s name on the team sheet would be worrying.

[/quote]Really?I would rather see Rudd (who has never let us down) in goal over Ruddy and think that Ruddy is the keeper that I certainly have worries about in the Premiership.  I think that Ruddy has been one of the major reasons that we conceeded so many last season,  Whoever we had playing in our defence, they were often looking nervously over their shoulder at what was behind them if they didn;t win their headers or tackles.How can people claim that Rudd isn''t good enough but Ruddy possibly is?  Forster looked a much better keeper than Ruddy while he was here in my opinion and I would like us to ensure that we get a new Number ONE and bring on one of our youngsters to challnge him for the jersey over the next couple of years or so.

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[quote user="Yellowbeagle"]Is there any truth to this other than lazy journalism? i dont see Forster comming unless Lambert has decided Ruddy is''nt up to it, his confidence would be shot to pieces with that particular player comming back.[/quote]Surely it is only a matter of time until Lambert decides this?For me Rudd has always looked far safer than Ruddy and we are in desperate need of a new Number ONE in my opinion.

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[quote user="Smudger"][quote user="GJP"]

[quote user="sgncfc"] Surely he is no better as a back up than Rudd?[/quote]

I would say Forster is a significantly better goalkeeper than Rudd.

 

I''d be fine seeing either Ruddy or Forster in goal in the Premier League. Seeing Rudd''s name on the team sheet would be worrying.

[/quote]

Really?

I would rather see Rudd (who has never let us down) in goal over Ruddy and think that Ruddy is the keeper that I certainly have worries about in the Premiership.  I think that Ruddy has been one of the major reasons that we conceeded so many last season,  Whoever we had playing in our defence, they were often looking nervously over their shoulder at what was behind them if they didn;t win their headers or tackles.

How can people claim that Rudd isn''t good enough but Ruddy possibly is?  Forster looked a much better keeper than Ruddy while he was here in my opinion and I would like us to ensure that we get a new Number ONE and bring on one of our youngsters to challnge him for the jersey over the next couple of years or so.
[/quote]

Yup, really.

 

I''m still not 100% sold on Ruddy but I''d have more confidence with him than Rudd.

 

It''s easy saying Rudd has never let us down because he''s only played a handful of games for us and in those games he''s rarely been tested. However, you could also see in some of those games that his distribution was sometimes hasty and erratic. And, infact, I think there was a home game towards the end of the League 1 season when he got himself in a muddle trying to deal with a cross or corner which resulted in a goal. (Think it was against MKD, might have even been Wilbraham who scored for them).

 

Also, just from watching pre-match warmups you can quite clearly tell that Ruddy''s handling is considerably better. If you watch them warming up over a few games I''m pretty sure you''ll see that Rudd will let the ball get away from him more times than Ruddy will.

 

My gut feeling is that Forster probably is a better ''keeper than Ruddy but Lambert knows what he''s doing and I doubt you''ll be seeing Declan Rudd as first choice Norwich ''keeper any time soon.

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While young Declan has his faults, I would have said that his handling is certainly not one of them.He has the safest pair of hands I have possibly seen on a Norwich keeper at least since Chris Woods.  When the ball is hit at Rudd it usually sticks (ie: he doesn''t just turn it around the post but actually holds on to it).  If he has a weak point it may be that he needs to bulk up a bit allowing him to come for crosses easier and confidence that will only come with a run of games.  Coming for crosses is hardly a strong point for Ruddy either though, who is a pretty good shot stopper on his day and nothing more in my opinion.  I certainly have fears if Ruddy is our first choice keeper for much of the coming season.While Forster''s handling is probably worse then both Ruddy and Rudd''s, his sheer physical presence means that he is excellent in many other areas of his game and he is absolutely amazing at controlling his area, the back four in front of him and coming for & claiming difficult crosses in to the box.

Forster would be a very good signing for us in my opinion with a view to selling Ruddy on to a Championship club over the next year or so.

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Hear me out...

There is no doubt Forster is a great keeper, although Ruddy in my opinion has proved himself to be a good keeper too; but I just feel that if Lambert does sign Forster it could be a major error.

As I say it is not because he isn''t a good keeper - it is because I think it is bad for morale. Ruddy spent a long time last season emerging from FF''s shadow, and I feel he managed this with respect. It was also clear Ruddy was passionate about the team, promotion and his own game (the interview post-Swansea at home, running up the pitch to celebrate etc) and he is respected by his team mates.

I think signing Forster could drive a bit of a wedge in the team - I know the players liked him when he was here too, but it might show Lambert''s disloyalty to the players who got him there and break team spirit.

Maybe it is Lambert being ruthless for the good of the team, but I am worried about the implications of this signing!

so what you are saying is don''t sign up the future england no1 because ruddy''s feelings might get hurt

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I have a problem. Of the two keepers mentioned I would, perhaps, say that FF is the better of the two but, I would stress, he is unproven at even Championship level. The problem I have is, is he £2M better than John Ruddy? The last thing I want to see is for us to have four young keepers at the club and hamper the progress of Rudd and Steer. Both of those two have achieved something the other two have not. They are both England youth international goalkeepers. They have been awarded their caps by experienced people in the game who have assessed their ability and have little, or nothing, to do with Norwich City.

FF is 23 years old and made his name at Norwich City two years ago when he had just turned 22. Declan Rudd is 20 and, although it is probably too early for him to be first choice, I cannot see it being a problem with him being second choice. I would, however, still like to see an experienced older keeper signed to help cover that troublesome two or three years, and also pass on the benefit of that experience, until Rudd (and Steer) have the chance to show their true worth and not just their potential.

What I am really saying is that if we do decide to sign FF then I would not mind one little bit if we allowed John Ruddy to further his career elsewhere. If we are to look further into the future can we afford to have both FF and JR on the books?

Incidentally Joe Hart, also an England Youth international, made his league debut at 17 and was a Manchester City regular at 19.

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[quote user="Yellow Wall"]I have a problem. Of the two keepers mentioned I would, perhaps, say that FF is the better of the two but, I would stress, he is unproven at even Championship level. The problem I have is, is he £2M better than John Ruddy? The last thing I want to see is for us to have four young keepers at the club and hamper the progress of Rudd and Steer. Both of those two have achieved something the other two have not. They are both England youth international goalkeepers. They have been awarded their caps by experienced people in the game who have assessed their ability and have little, or nothing, to do with Norwich City. FF is 23 years old and made his name at Norwich City two years ago when he had just turned 22. Declan Rudd is 20 and, although it is probably too early for him to be first choice, I cannot see it being a problem with him being second choice. I would, however, still like to see an experienced older keeper signed to help cover that troublesome two or three years, and also pass on the benefit of that experience, until Rudd (and Steer) have the chance to show their true worth and not just their potential. What I am really saying is that if we do decide to sign FF then I would not mind one little bit if we allowed John Ruddy to further his career elsewhere. If we are to look further into the future can we afford to have both FF and JR on the books? Incidentally Joe Hart, also an England Youth international, made his league debut at 17 and was a Manchester City regular at 19.[/quote]

 

The way to pick up youth England caps is a little bit of a joke. Obviously there are too many players out there to scout them all in their respective academies - you would need an army of scouts. Clubs will submit a list of players they consider good enough for selection to England youth teams and then scouts will come to have a look at them - some clubs don''t submit a list as they don''t want their youth players being distracted with International duties at a young age or they don''t want to draw the attention of scouts from bigger clubs.

 

In my opinion youth caps mean absolutely nothing - especially when it comes to ''keepers who don''t develop until later on in their careers. I wouldn''t want to sign Forster though as I don''t think he will provide a marked improvement on Ruddy and the £2m could be better spent elsewhere. I am happy with the players added so far, but think we need to get in one or two more players who will go straight into the first team.

 

Also, if Ruddy is upset by a player in his position being brought in then he needs to get another career, I don''t think it would harm morale at all with Forster being brought in, not one player at Norwich will be under the illusion that Lambert isn''t a practical kind of guy who would drop any of them in the bat of an eyelid if a better player was available.

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Whilst I agree that Ruddy and others have earnt a chance to play in the Prem, do not underestimate the ruthlessness of Lambert.

Remember that only four of the League One team played in that final game against Coventry.   Korey, Nelson, Doc, Russell, Drury (I know he was a fifth as a sub but even so) and Askou were all put aside before or during last season.  Others who Lambert clearly rates such as Chris Martin and Lappin were still unsentimenatlly moved aside to allow other players the chance.

If Lambert feels he can get better then no one is actually safe not even Holt or Hoolahan.   If Lambert feels Fraser gives him better options then any sense of responsibility or debt to Ruddy for all he achieved last season will not get in the way.   It will be tough on Ruddy just as signing Barnett was tough on Nelson but that will not stop Lambert doing it.

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Your mention of Korey Smith jolted my memory Cambridge. I  had completely forgotten about this little diamond, maybe because, as you say, Lambert was ruthless by discarding him last season.

Strange how players so quickly disappear from the memory of even ardent supporters like myself, even though I only manage half a dozen games each season. I suppose this reflects the large scale player turn-over that virtually every club has these days.  No more Bryan Thurlows that''s for sure. Even Drury has become exceptional for his longevity.

 

I personally feel that Korey is too good to disappear from the scene, but if PL didn''t play him much in the Championship, then what hope a place in the Premiership team for him?

 

What prospects then? Loan him out to enable him to develop more or sell him for say £500.000 or therabouts?

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[quote user="Bethnal Yellow and Green"]

[quote user="Yellow Wall"]I have a problem. Of the two keepers mentioned I would, perhaps, say that FF is the better of the two but, I would stress, he is unproven at even Championship level. The problem I have is, is he £2M better than John Ruddy? The last thing I want to see is for us to have four young keepers at the club and hamper the progress of Rudd and Steer. Both of those two have achieved something the other two have not. They are both England youth international goalkeepers. They have been awarded their caps by experienced people in the game who have assessed their ability and have little, or nothing, to do with Norwich City. FF is 23 years old and made his name at Norwich City two years ago when he had just turned 22. Declan Rudd is 20 and, although it is probably too early for him to be first choice, I cannot see it being a problem with him being second choice. I would, however, still like to see an experienced older keeper signed to help cover that troublesome two or three years, and also pass on the benefit of that experience, until Rudd (and Steer) have the chance to show their true worth and not just their potential. What I am really saying is that if we do decide to sign FF then I would not mind one little bit if we allowed John Ruddy to further his career elsewhere. If we are to look further into the future can we afford to have both FF and JR on the books? Incidentally Joe Hart, also an England Youth international, made his league debut at 17 and was a Manchester City regular at 19.[/quote]

 

The way to pick up youth England caps is a little bit of a joke. Obviously there are too many players out there to scout them all in their respective academies - you would need an army of scouts. Clubs will submit a list of players they consider good enough for selection to England youth teams and then scouts will come to have a look at them - some clubs don''t submit a list as they don''t want their youth players being distracted with International duties at a young age or they don''t want to draw the attention of scouts from bigger clubs.

 

In my opinion youth caps mean absolutely nothing - especially when it comes to ''keepers who don''t develop until later on in their careers. I wouldn''t want to sign Forster though as I don''t think he will provide a marked improvement on Ruddy and the £2m could be better spent elsewhere. I am happy with the players added so far, but think we need to get in one or two more players who will go straight into the first team.

 

Also, if Ruddy is upset by a player in his position being brought in then he needs to get another career, I don''t think it would harm morale at all with Forster being brought in, not one player at Norwich will be under the illusion that Lambert isn''t a practical kind of guy who would drop any of them in the bat of an eyelid if a better player was available.

[/quote]

 

---

 

A few points. Goalkeeper as such a crucial position that it''s worth spending a fair bit of money on even a comparitively small improvment if you can. As it happens, without repeating myself too much, I don''t rate Ruddy highly at all, and Forster would be a marked improvment, but he wouldn''t have to be to be worth buying. A couple of draws turned into wins, or a defeat or two turned into draws can be the difference between survival and relegation. This, of course, is assuming there is anything in The Sun story!

 

As to the question of morale, Bethnal has summed it up perfectly. This is professional sport.

 

As to the development of Rudd (who has looked good whenever I''ve seen him) and Steer, that''s easy. Loan them out. They will learn more from playing than from being on the bench with Ruddy (or Forster) in goal.

 

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[quote user="GJP"][quote user="Smudger"][quote user="GJP"]

[quote user="sgncfc"] Surely he is no better as a back up than Rudd?[/quote]

I would say Forster is a significantly better goalkeeper than Rudd.

 

I''d be fine seeing either Ruddy or Forster in goal in the Premier League. Seeing Rudd''s name on the team sheet would be worrying.

[/quote]

Really?

I would rather see Rudd (who has never let us down) in goal over Ruddy and think that Ruddy is the keeper that I certainly have worries about in the Premiership.  I think that Ruddy has been one of the major reasons that we conceeded so many last season,  Whoever we had playing in our defence, they were often looking nervously over their shoulder at what was behind them if they didn;t win their headers or tackles.

How can people claim that Rudd isn''t good enough but Ruddy possibly is?  Forster looked a much better keeper than Ruddy while he was here in my opinion and I would like us to ensure that we get a new Number ONE and bring on one of our youngsters to challnge him for the jersey over the next couple of years or so.
[/quote]

Yup, really.

 

I''m still not 100% sold on Ruddy but I''d have more confidence with him than Rudd.

 

It''s easy saying Rudd has never let us down because he''s only played a handful of games for us and in those games he''s rarely been tested. However, you could also see in some of those games that his distribution was sometimes hasty and erratic. And, infact, I think there was a home game towards the end of the League 1 season when he got himself in a muddle trying to deal with a cross or corner which resulted in a goal. (Think it was against MKD, might have even been Wilbraham who scored for them).

 

Also, just from watching pre-match warmups you can quite clearly tell that Ruddy''s handling is considerably better. If you watch them warming up over a few games I''m pretty sure you''ll see that Rudd will let the ball get away from him more times than Ruddy will.

 

My gut feeling is that Forster probably is a better ''keeper than Ruddy but Lambert knows what he''s doing and I doubt you''ll be seeing Declan Rudd as first choice Norwich ''keeper any time soon.

[/quote]

My aim is not to slate Rudd, but I''m glad I''m not alone in noticing this - the amount of times Rudd drops the ball or it goes underneith him is quite worrying considering how highly rated he is; at Derby away, his warm up was so bad I thought he wasn''t taking it seriously, which he should be if he wants to keep Ruddy on his toes.

 

As for performances during matches, they can hardly be comparable as Rudd has barely had any first team football compared to Ruddy, but one thing I will say is that Ruddy''s distribution appears to be a lot better. I remember Rudd against Barnsely kept kicking the ball out for throw ins, probably nerves but if it was, this would have to be something which doesn''t get the better of him if he was to play in the Premiership.

 

As I said before, this post was not to slate Rudd, but I can''t agree with those who say they would rather see Rudd in goal in the Premiership as opposed to Ruddy.

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[quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="Bethnal Yellow and Green"]

[quote user="Yellow Wall"]I have a problem. Of the two keepers mentioned I would, perhaps, say that FF is the better of the two but, I would stress, he is unproven at even Championship level. The problem I have is, is he £2M better than John Ruddy? The last thing I want to see is for us to have four young keepers at the club and hamper the progress of Rudd and Steer. Both of those two have achieved something the other two have not. They are both England youth international goalkeepers. They have been awarded their caps by experienced people in the game who have assessed their ability and have little, or nothing, to do with Norwich City. FF is 23 years old and made his name at Norwich City two years ago when he had just turned 22. Declan Rudd is 20 and, although it is probably too early for him to be first choice, I cannot see it being a problem with him being second choice. I would, however, still like to see an experienced older keeper signed to help cover that troublesome two or three years, and also pass on the benefit of that experience, until Rudd (and Steer) have the chance to show their true worth and not just their potential. What I am really saying is that if we do decide to sign FF then I would not mind one little bit if we allowed John Ruddy to further his career elsewhere. If we are to look further into the future can we afford to have both FF and JR on the books? Incidentally Joe Hart, also an England Youth international, made his league debut at 17 and was a Manchester City regular at 19.[/quote]

 

The way to pick up youth England caps is a little bit of a joke. Obviously there are too many players out there to scout them all in their respective academies - you would need an army of scouts. Clubs will submit a list of players they consider good enough for selection to England youth teams and then scouts will come to have a look at them - some clubs don''t submit a list as they don''t want their youth players being distracted with International duties at a young age or they don''t want to draw the attention of scouts from bigger clubs.

 

In my opinion youth caps mean absolutely nothing - especially when it comes to ''keepers who don''t develop until later on in their careers. I wouldn''t want to sign Forster though as I don''t think he will provide a marked improvement on Ruddy and the £2m could be better spent elsewhere. I am happy with the players added so far, but think we need to get in one or two more players who will go straight into the first team.

 

Also, if Ruddy is upset by a player in his position being brought in then he needs to get another career, I don''t think it would harm morale at all with Forster being brought in, not one player at Norwich will be under the illusion that Lambert isn''t a practical kind of guy who would drop any of them in the bat of an eyelid if a better player was available.

[/quote]

 

---

 

A few points. Goalkeeper as such a crucial position that it''s worth spending a fair bit of money on even a comparitively small improvment if you can. As it happens, without repeating myself too much, I don''t rate Ruddy highly at all, and Forster would be a marked improvment, but he wouldn''t have to be to be worth buying. A couple of draws turned into wins, or a defeat or two turned into draws can be the difference between survival and relegation. This, of course, is assuming there is anything in The Sun story!

 

As to the question of morale, Bethnal has summed it up perfectly. This is professional sport.

 

As to the development of Rudd (who has looked good whenever I''ve seen him) and Steer, that''s easy. Loan them out. They will learn more from playing than from being on the bench with Ruddy (or Forster) in goal.

 

[/quote]Spot on Purple... [Y]Then if Rudd and Steer return with a year of good experience under their belts I am sure that one of our keepers can be moved on for a reasonable fee?I certainly wouldn''t like to see us go in to the season without getting a better/more experienced keeper than we have on our books already.  I would say that this could be the most crucial signing we make this summer, as I think with the balance right in the midfield and a decent keeper behind them it will be difficult for us to make our defence much better than it is this summer without spending an absolute fortune (which we haven''t got).

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[quote user="alysha"][quote user="GJP"][quote user="Smudger"][quote user="GJP"]

[quote user="sgncfc"] Surely he is no better as a back up than Rudd?[/quote]

I would say Forster is a significantly better goalkeeper than Rudd.

 

I''d be fine seeing either Ruddy or Forster in goal in the Premier League. Seeing Rudd''s name on the team sheet would be worrying.

[/quote]Really?I would rather see Rudd (who has never let us down) in goal over Ruddy and think that Ruddy is the keeper that I certainly have worries about in the Premiership.  I think that Ruddy has been one of the major reasons that we conceeded so many last season,  Whoever we had playing in our defence, they were often looking nervously over their shoulder at what was behind them if they didn;t win their headers or tackles.How can people claim that Rudd isn''t good enough but Ruddy possibly is?  Forster looked a much better keeper than Ruddy while he was here in my opinion and I would like us to ensure that we get a new Number ONE and bring on one of our youngsters to challnge him for the jersey over the next couple of years or so.[/quote]

Yup, really.

 

I''m still not 100% sold on Ruddy but I''d have more confidence with him than Rudd.

 

It''s easy saying Rudd has never let us down because he''s only played a handful of games for us and in those games he''s rarely been tested. However, you could also see in some of those games that his distribution was sometimes hasty and erratic. And, infact, I think there was a home game towards the end of the League 1 season when he got himself in a muddle trying to deal with a cross or corner which resulted in a goal. (Think it was against MKD, might have even been Wilbraham who scored for them).

 

Also, just from watching pre-match warmups you can quite clearly tell that Ruddy''s handling is considerably better. If you watch them warming up over a few games I''m pretty sure you''ll see that Rudd will let the ball get away from him more times than Ruddy will.

 

My gut feeling is that Forster probably is a better ''keeper than Ruddy but Lambert knows what he''s doing and I doubt you''ll be seeing Declan Rudd as first choice Norwich ''keeper any time soon.

[/quote]

My aim is not to slate Rudd, but I''m glad I''m not alone in noticing this - the amount of times Rudd drops the ball or it goes underneith him is quite worrying considering how highly rated he is; at Derby away, his warm up was so bad I thought he wasn''t taking it seriously, which he should be if he wants to keep Ruddy on his toes.

 

As for performances during matches, they can hardly be comparable as Rudd has barely had any first team football compared to Ruddy, but one thing I will say is that Ruddy''s distribution appears to be a lot better. I remember Rudd against Barnsely kept kicking the ball out for throw ins, probably nerves but if it was, this would have to be something which doesn''t get the better of him if he was to play in the Premiership.

 

As I said before, this post was not to slate Rudd, but I can''t agree with those who say they would rather see Rudd in goal in the Premiership as opposed to Ruddy.

[/quote]I''m sorry but this is completely FALSE Alysha.If Ruddy''s handling is so much better than Rudds, how come he let the ball slip through his hands so many times when conceeding goals last season?Leicester at home to name but one example (I am sure that I could come up with other examples of his dreadful handling before the day is out).

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[quote user="Smudger"][quote user="alysha"][quote user="GJP"][quote user="Smudger"][quote user="GJP"]

[quote user="sgncfc"] Surely he is no better as a back up than Rudd?[/quote]

I would say Forster is a significantly better goalkeeper than Rudd.

 

I''d be fine seeing either Ruddy or Forster in goal in the Premier League. Seeing Rudd''s name on the team sheet would be worrying.

[/quote]

Really?

I would rather see Rudd (who has never let us down) in goal over Ruddy and think that Ruddy is the keeper that I certainly have worries about in the Premiership.  I think that Ruddy has been one of the major reasons that we conceeded so many last season,  Whoever we had playing in our defence, they were often looking nervously over their shoulder at what was behind them if they didn;t win their headers or tackles.

How can people claim that Rudd isn''t good enough but Ruddy possibly is?  Forster looked a much better keeper than Ruddy while he was here in my opinion and I would like us to ensure that we get a new Number ONE and bring on one of our youngsters to challnge him for the jersey over the next couple of years or so.
[/quote]

Yup, really.

 

I''m still not 100% sold on Ruddy but I''d have more confidence with him than Rudd.

 

It''s easy saying Rudd has never let us down because he''s only played a handful of games for us and in those games he''s rarely been tested. However, you could also see in some of those games that his distribution was sometimes hasty and erratic. And, infact, I think there was a home game towards the end of the League 1 season when he got himself in a muddle trying to deal with a cross or corner which resulted in a goal. (Think it was against MKD, might have even been Wilbraham who scored for them).

 

Also, just from watching pre-match warmups you can quite clearly tell that Ruddy''s handling is considerably better. If you watch them warming up over a few games I''m pretty sure you''ll see that Rudd will let the ball get away from him more times than Ruddy will.

 

My gut feeling is that Forster probably is a better ''keeper than Ruddy but Lambert knows what he''s doing and I doubt you''ll be seeing Declan Rudd as first choice Norwich ''keeper any time soon.

[/quote]

My aim is not to slate Rudd, but I''m glad I''m not alone in noticing this - the amount of times Rudd drops the ball or it goes underneith him is quite worrying considering how highly rated he is; at Derby away, his warm up was so bad I thought he wasn''t taking it seriously, which he should be if he wants to keep Ruddy on his toes.

 

As for performances during matches, they can hardly be comparable as Rudd has barely had any first team football compared to Ruddy, but one thing I will say is that Ruddy''s distribution appears to be a lot better. I remember Rudd against Barnsely kept kicking the ball out for throw ins, probably nerves but if it was, this would have to be something which doesn''t get the better of him if he was to play in the Premiership.

 

As I said before, this post was not to slate Rudd, but I can''t agree with those who say they would rather see Rudd in goal in the Premiership as opposed to Ruddy.

[/quote]

I''m sorry but this is completely FALSE Alysha.

If Ruddy''s handling is so much better than Rudds, how come he let the ball slip through his hands so many times when conceeding goals last season?

Leicester at home to name but one example (I am sure that I could come up with other examples of his dreadful handling before the day is out).
[/quote]

As I said in the warm ups - it looked as though Rudd wasn''t taking it seriously sometimes. As for match situations, I said they can''t be compared.

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[quote user="Smudger"][quote user="GJP"]

[quote user="sgncfc"] Surely he is no better as a back up than Rudd?[/quote]

I would say Forster is a significantly better goalkeeper than Rudd.

 

I''d be fine seeing either Ruddy or Forster in goal in the Premier League. Seeing Rudd''s name on the team sheet would be worrying.

[/quote]Really?I would rather see Rudd (who has never let us down) in goal over Ruddy and think that Ruddy is the keeper that I certainly have worries about in the Premiership.  I think that Ruddy has been one of the major reasons that we conceeded so many last season,  Whoever we had playing in our defence, they were often looking nervously over their shoulder at what was behind them if they didn;t win their headers or tackles.How can people claim that Rudd isn''t good enough but Ruddy possibly is?  Forster looked a much better keeper than Ruddy while he was here in my opinion and I would like us to ensure that we get a new Number ONE and bring on one of our youngsters to challnge him for the jersey over the next couple of years or so.[/quote]

I think you hit the nail on the head there. Could not agree more. Just watch the DVD of last season back.

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These were all handling errors from Ruddy last season...  Watford (h), Doncaster (a), Leicester (h), Burnley (h), Leeds (h), Swansea (a) - Ruddy flapped at the shot by Dobbie I think it was prior to the rebound dalling to Mark Gower for his excellent strike which resulted in the Taffs second goal that day, Watford (a), Coventry (h)Not poor handling but dodgy keeping nonetheless... Crystal Palace (h) - not poor handling because Ruddy didn''t even get his hands on it when he should''ve done - controlled his area very badly that night too.Millwall (a) - Ruddy came for a cross in the last minute and got no way near it - leaving an empty net.Burnley (a) their 2nd and winning goal through Ruddy''s legs.Bristol City (h) Adomah puts another one through Ruddy''s legs.Forest (h) The infamous non clearance which led to Tyson''s flukey goal.Now I would suggest that is plenty of evidence to end this sentimental rubbish that we shouldn''t be looking for another keeper during this summer and that Ruddy is any better than the two youth products that we already had at the club.Ruddy done ok for us in some games but he certainly doesn''t inspire me with confidence if we go in to the season with him as our number one.

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So Alysha, you would rather pick a keeper who has made an error about once in every 3 games for us (Ruddy) over a young home grown keeper who has never made a serious error for us or let the club down in a handful of matches?Sorry but apart from Wilbraham, Ruddy has to be Lambert''s worst signing for me and I have serious worries about him being in goal for us this coming season.

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[quote user="Smudger"]So Alysha, you would rather pick a keeper who has made an error about once in every 3 games for us (Ruddy) over a young home grown keeper who has never made a serious error for us or let the club down in a handful of matches?

Sorry but apart from Wilbraham, Ruddy has to be Lambert''s worst signing for me and I have serious worries about him being in goal for us this coming season.
[/quote]

For someone who like me, was not a Jackson hater for most part of the season, I don''t understand your logic in this one. There was a lot of people on here who were adament that C.Martin was the better striker, and whilst not slating Martin we said that if given the amount of starts as Martin then Jackson may be able to work on his goal tally, as his goals per mintutes on the pitch ratio wasn''t bad. Well surely then this can work the other way too? Ruddy played all but one game in the league this season and has many more first team starts for Norwich City than Rudd, so of course he has made more mistakes than Rudd, he has had more opportunity to because Lambert picks him over Rudd.

 

I''m not saying Ruddy is better than Rudd, or vice versa, what I am saying is you can''t compare the amount of mistakes they have made when one of them barely plays and the other has played practically every game this season. In answer to your question though, would I prefer Ruddy over Rudd in the Premiership? Yes, if Lambert and the goalkeeping coach want to stick with Ruddy who was part of a team which came second in the Championship, then that''s good enough for me; that is not to say I wouldn''t welcome a change either if Lambert wants to put someone else in goal. My reasoning is not that one is better than another, but that they arn''t comparable in competitive league matches.

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Rudd is simply not ready for the Prem, so of course Ruddy is the better keeper at the moment. If I was Lambert I''d be sending Rudd out on loan for the season to gain experience and properly test him.  I''m not sure Rudd is as good as some think based on what I''ve seen, so only time will tell.

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[quote user="Smudger"]Sorry but apart from Wilbraham, Ruddy has to be Lambert''s worst signing for me and I have serious worries about him being in goal for us this coming season.
[/quote]

Wilbraham wasn''t even a bad signing. It took him a couple of weeks to settle and get up to speed but then you could start to see an improvement in the way he played. I''m not saying he played like Cristiano Ronaldo or anything but you could see that he was capable of doing a job.

 

It was similar to when Vokes signed, to begin with he looked very rusty but by the end of his loan there were definite signs of improvement.

 

Steven Smith is the weakest signing Lambert has made so far.

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Well Jacko had actually performed quite well for us up until when he was dropped as had Chris Martin Alysha.While Ruddy has had a few good performances, the number of simple errors he has made makes me feel that Lambert and Co have been more than kind to this signing of his and it hasn''t quite worked for me.  I think it is a shame that young Declan hasn''t been given more of a chance as to me he looks a far better keeper than Ruddy and I think that the main reason that Ruddy has played so many games is because he is a Lambert signing and he wan''t his signing to succeed.I think the difference between us having Fraser Forster as our number one, or John Ruddy as our number one this coming season, will be the difference between us looking towards a healthy top half finish and really struggling to just do enough to avoid relegation.Sorry, but a goalkeeper that makes that many errors does not inspire either me, a defence or a midfield with confidence.  I would much rather we sign a decent keeper than a centre half, as I believe that most of our defenders are about as good as we can afford at this moment in time.  Without briging in the likes of Roger Johnson or Matty Upson or similar it is unlikely that we are going to be able to improve our back four much for this coming season and I think several of the defenders that we have will improve an awful lot with a more defensive minded/better balanced midfield in front of them and a better goalkeeper who is not so prone to making silly errors and who controls their box better at set pieces behind them.Sorry it''s just how I see it - no room for sentimentality!

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[quote user="GJP"]

[quote user="Smudger"]Sorry but apart from Wilbraham, Ruddy has to be Lambert''s worst signing for me and I have serious worries about him being in goal for us this coming season.[/quote]

Wilbraham wasn''t even a bad signing. It took him a couple of weeks to settle and get up to speed but then you could start to see an improvement in the way he played. I''m not saying he played like Cristiano Ronaldo or anything but you could see that he was capable of doing a job.

 

It was similar to when Vokes signed, to begin with he looked very rusty but by the end of his loan there were definite signs of improvement.

 

Steven Smith is the weakest signing Lambert has made so far.

[/quote]Don''t want to take the thread off topic, so will just give one short reply on this.Wilbraham wasn''t a bad signing?  He was woeful... scored one goal - an own goal at Leicester and was a joke amongst his own fans in a successful team.  Imagine if he had been playing for a struggling side.  He is the worst forward we have had at the club in my time and that includes the likes of Dean Coney, Mike Sheron etc.Vokes done more than ok for us.  Didn''t look fit but always looked a handful and chipped in with an important goal away at Watford and done well when he came on against Ipswich away.Steven Smith played ok for us in a few matches around October time. A lot of people were praising his performances around the time of Leicester at home. 

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[quote user="paul moy"]Rudd is simply not ready for the Prem, so of course Ruddy is the better keeper at the moment. If I was Lambert I''d be sending Rudd out on loan for the season to gain experience and properly test him.  I''m not sure Rudd is as good as some think based on what I''ve seen, so only time will tell.[/quote]Why is Cody McDonald ready for the Premiership if Declan Rudd isn''t??? [:|]

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I agree with you in terms of no room for sentimentality and like you wouldn''t mind another keeper being brought in. I''m not saying Ruddy fills me with loads of confidence, but I can''t say that Rudd is the better keeper, as I haven''t seen enough of him in competitive games like I have Ruddy, so can''t compare the two, that''s all it is.

 

Whilst I would love to see Fraser Forster back, I would hope that his distribution has improved and that it doesn''t affect the developemnt and future chances of Rudd and Steer, as that''s the problem with bringing in another young keeper.

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[quote user="Smudger"][quote user="GJP"]

[quote user="Smudger"]Sorry but apart from Wilbraham, Ruddy has to be Lambert''s worst signing for me and I have serious worries about him being in goal for us this coming season.
[/quote]

Wilbraham wasn''t even a bad signing. It took him a couple of weeks to settle and get up to speed but then you could start to see an improvement in the way he played. I''m not saying he played like Cristiano Ronaldo or anything but you could see that he was capable of doing a job.

 

It was similar to when Vokes signed, to begin with he looked very rusty but by the end of his loan there were definite signs of improvement.

 

Steven Smith is the weakest signing Lambert has made so far.

[/quote]

Don''t want to take the thread off topic, so will just give one short reply on this.

Wilbraham wasn''t a bad signing?  He was woeful... scored one goal - an own goal at Leicester and was a joke amongst his own fans in a successful team.  Imagine if he had been playing for a struggling side.  He is the worst forward we have had at the club in my time and that includes the likes of Dean Coney, Mike Sheron etc.

Vokes done more than ok for us.  Didn''t look fit but always looked a handful and chipped in with an important goal away at Watford and done well when he came on against Ipswich away.

Steven Smith played ok for us in a few matches around October time. A lot of people were praising his performances around the time of Leicester at home. 
[/quote]

He also won a brilliant flick-on which lead to the last-gasp Lansbury winner against Millwall. And in general, when he had got up to speed, his all round play was pretty decent. He was never likely to be a prolific goalscorer but the guy can obviously make a useful contribution to the team and for the £100k we were said to have paid for him I think he was decent signing.

 

However, he is also the kind of player where some fans would have made up their mind he wasn''t going to be good enough before he had even kicked a ball for Norwich. And when that happens the player has got virtually no chance of turning it around in their eyes.

 

As it goes I never never really took to Smith - I said that at the time. I could see early on that he wasn''t going to do the business for Norwich in the long run.

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[quote user="paul moy"] I''m not sure Rudd is as good as some think based on what I''ve seen, so only time will tell.[/quote]

Our youth team players pretty much always get overrated.

 

You don''t have to go back too long to when Russell Martin was lucky to be at right-back because clearly Michael Spillane was better and destined to be first choice right-back. Which explains why he struggled to get in the Brentford side on a regular basis last season.

 

Then you''ve got Korey Smith who could/should be playing for a top 4 Premier League side.

 

And of course with Rudd himself someone said to me last summer that they didn''t want Forster back because Rudd was better anyway.

 

etc etc

 

 

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[quote user="Smudger"]So Alysha, you would rather pick a keeper who has made an error about once in every 3 games for us (Ruddy) over a young home grown keeper who has never made a serious error for us or let the club down in a handful of matches?Sorry but apart from Wilbraham, Ruddy has to be Lambert''s worst signing for me and I have serious worries about him being in goal for us this coming season.[/quote]

i don''t rate ruddy but to have rudd in goal next season would be mental

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[quote user="CRAZY LEGS"][quote user="Smudger"]So Alysha, you would rather pick a keeper who has made an error about once in every 3 games for us (Ruddy) over a young home grown keeper who has never made a serious error for us or let the club down in a handful of matches?Sorry but apart from Wilbraham, Ruddy has to be Lambert''s worst signing for me and I have serious worries about him being in goal for us this coming season.[/quote]

i don''t rate ruddy but to have rudd in goal next season would be mental[/quote]Why?Because he doesn''t have the experience of making far too many cock-up''s like Ruddy does yet??? [:|]

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Spot on, GJP, about the routine overrating of local players.

And I totally agree with you about Wilbraham. Without ever offering star quality, he improved steadily, routinely caused problems in opposition boxes, and was actually one of the best players away at Leicester, in what I rated the second-best performance of the season.

Of course, some on here like to see things in extremes, because it livens up debate.

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[quote user="Smudger"]So Alysha, you would rather pick a keeper who has made an error about once in every 3 games for us (Ruddy) over a young home grown keeper who has never made a serious error for us or let the club down in a handful of matches?Sorry but apart from Wilbraham, Ruddy has to be Lambert''s worst signing for me and I have serious worries about him being in goal for us this coming season.[/quote]Every game Rudd has been in his made mistakes, shown by the season reviews etc. Nevermind all those that aren''t shown

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