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Signing FF could be Lambert's biggest mistake thus far...

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[quote user="judderman"][quote user="Smudger"]So Alysha, you would rather pick a keeper who has made an error about once in every 3 games for us (Ruddy) over a young home grown keeper who has never made a serious error for us or let the club down in a handful of matches?Sorry but apart from Wilbraham, Ruddy has to be Lambert''s worst signing for me and I have serious worries about him being in goal for us this coming season.[/quote]Every game Rudd has been in his made mistakes, shown by the season reviews etc. Nevermind all those that aren''t shown[/quote]What utter rubbish!Name them...

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[quote user="CambsCanary"]Spot on, GJP, about the routine overrating of local players.

And I totally agree with you about Wilbraham. Without ever offering star quality, he improved steadily, routinely caused problems in opposition boxes, and was actually one of the best players away at Leicester, in what I rated the second-best performance of the season.

Of course, some on here like to see things in extremes, because it livens up debate.[/quote]This is exactly why we had an awful team for 5 years or so... over sentimental tosh about PLAYERS WHO CLEARLY AREN''T UP TO THE JOB... [:$]Ruddy isn''t good enough for the first choice keeper of a team who wants to survive in the Premiership without worry and Wilbraham isn''t even good enough for the top end of the 3rd tier of English football!

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[quote user="Smudger"]Wilbraham isn''t even good enough for the top end of the 3rd tier of English football!

 

[/quote]If that''s the case smudger, why did Paul Lambert pay £100k for him and play him in a side challenging (and achieving) promotion to the premiership? Are you saying (once again) Lambert doesn''t know what he''s doing?

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[quote user="lappinitup"]

[quote user="Smudger"]Wilbraham isn''t even good enough for the top end of the 3rd tier of English football!

 

[/quote]If that''s the case smudger, why did Paul Lambert pay £100k for him and play him in a side challenging (and achieving) promotion to the premiership? Are you saying (once again) Lambert doesn''t know what he''s doing?

[/quote]Not at all, but like every other human being on the planet Sir Lambert makes mistakes Lapp.  Now you really must learn to accept that as this fixation on him of yours isn''t really healthy is it?  It is exactly this kind of mentality amongst fans that led to the Worthy, Grant, Roeder, Gunn downward spiral at our club.

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[quote user="Smudger"]Not at all, but like every other human being on the planet Sir Lambert makes mistakes Lapp. 

Now you really must learn to accept that as this fixation on him of yours isn''t really healthy is it?  It is exactly this kind of mentality amongst fans that led to the Worthy, Grant, Roeder, Gunn downward spiral at our club.

 

[/quote]I would suggest that fans who stuck by the club in those difficult times were a part of the reason we were able to pull through them. If everybody was like you and boycotted the club through their difficulties and only returned when we started winning again, it''s more likely we would have sunk lower than we actually did.

 

"Only sing when we''re winning" comes to mind!

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[quote user="lappinitup"]

[quote user="Smudger"]Not at all, but like every other human being on the planet Sir Lambert makes mistakes Lapp.  Now you really must learn to accept that as this fixation on him of yours isn''t really healthy is it?  It is exactly this kind of mentality amongst fans that led to the Worthy, Grant, Roeder, Gunn downward spiral at our club.

 

[/quote]I would suggest that fans who stuck by the club in those difficult times were a part of the reason we were able to pull through them. If everybody was like you and boycotted the club through their difficulties and only returned when we started winning again, it''s more likely we would have sunk lower than we actually did.

 

"Only sing when we''re winning" comes to mind!

[/quote]We would have never been losing in the first place if we had of had some people who knew their football running the club though Lapps. If fans had of heeded the warnings of where we were headed far earlier than what they did then so much damage would not have been done.Rather only sing when were winning than applaud blindly while we are losing!

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[quote user="Smudger"]We would have never been losing in the first place if we had of had some people who knew their football running the club though Lapps. If fans had of heeded the warnings of where we were headed far earlier than what they did then so much damage would not have been done.

Rather only sing when were winning than applaud blindly while we are losing!

 

[/quote]Strong SUPPORT is what got the club through smudger, not strong opposition. And now those supporters are reaping the benefits of their loyalty...but so are the "delia outers" and "purists" and "one-man protesters" and "fag packet accountants" who are all strangely quiet now! [;)]

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[quote user="lappinitup"]

[quote user="Smudger"]We would have never been losing in the first place if we had of had some people who knew their football running the club though Lapps. If fans had of heeded the warnings of where we were headed far earlier than what they did then so much damage would not have been done.Rather only sing when were winning than applaud blindly while we are losing!

 

[/quote]Strong SUPPORT is what got the club through smudger, not strong opposition. And now those supporters are reaping the benefits of their loyalty...but so are the "delia outers" and "purists" and "one-man protesters" and "fag packet accountants" who are all strangely quiet now! [;)]

[/quote]Never quiet me! [Y]I would argue that that kind of support was killing the club at the time.  It wasn''t until McNally and then Lambert and Culverhouse walked through the door that the club deserved the kind of support it is now getting.  I am sure that you would''ve fed your children ethanol if the vast mojority of people in power had told you that it was a wise thing to do?I supported the club at it''s lowest ebb and it has been on the up ever since.  I wont standback and watch anybody drag the club backwards though asthe vast majority did for at least 3 years before we hit that point though.Make sensible footballing decisions and whoever is in charge will get my support.  Make idiotic decisions that are going to harm the club and I will voice my concerns though.  Like Lambo, it ain''t often I am wrong - even though you have to try and note everything down that you think I may have called wrong in your little diary.You on the other hand never voice any concerns that you may have because everybody must know better than you I assume?  Even Doncaster, Worthy at his worst, Grant, Roeder and Gunn the manager?Seeing as you don''t like being proven wrong though - I will hand the reigns over to you for the last word... [;)]

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[quote user="Smudger"][quote user="lappinitup"]

[quote user="Smudger"]We would have never been losing in the first place if we had of had some people who knew their football running the club though Lapps. If fans had of heeded the warnings of where we were headed far earlier than what they did then so much damage would not have been done.

Rather only sing when were winning than applaud blindly while we are losing!

 

[/quote]Strong SUPPORT is what got the club through smudger, not strong opposition. And now those supporters are reaping the benefits of their loyalty...but so are the "delia outers" and "purists" and "one-man protesters" and "fag packet accountants" who are all strangely quiet now! [;)]

[/quote]

Never quiet me! [Y]

I would argue that that kind of support was killing the club at the time.  It wasn''t until McNally and then Lambert and Culverhouse walked through the door that the club deserved the kind of support it is now getting.  I am sure that you would''ve fed your children ethanol if the vast mojority of people in power had told you that it was a wise thing to do?

I supported the club at it''s lowest ebb and it has been on the up ever since.  I wont standback and watch anybody drag the club backwards though asthe vast majority did for at least 3 years before we hit that point though.

Make sensible footballing decisions and whoever is in charge will get my support.  Make idiotic decisions that are going to harm the club and I will voice my concerns though.  Like Lambo, it ain''t often I am wrong - even though you have to try and note everything down that you think I may have called wrong in your little diary.

You on the other hand never voice any concerns that you may have because everybody must know better than you I assume?  Even Doncaster, Worthy at his worst, Grant, Roeder and Gunn the manager?

Seeing as you don''t like being proven wrong though - I will hand the reigns over to you for the last word... [;)]
[/quote]

---

 

Dear me, this is an argument I''ve never seen before...

 

I will declare as winner which ever one of you two can answer this summer quiz question:

 

By choosing Norwich City players whose careers overlapped (!) you can get from 1932 to 1980 using only three players. Which three players?

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Like a challenge PC, so stepping in!

Bernard Robinson, Ron Ashman and Kevin Keelan?

The thread on Ruddy, Rudd and Forster has provoked and promoted a lot of debate and not a little falling out, but it is surely all academic as we aren''t going to be signing Forster anyway!

I don''t doubt there''ll be new keeper here come August, but, like others, think it''ll be someone 30 plus with some know how and Premier League nous.

It''s Ruddy''s shirt to lose and he has more than a few critics, so he''ll be under a lot of pressure from the word go. But Forster''s large shadow won''t be falling over him.

 

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Oh I forgot, Old Shuck knows all of the players that we are going to be signing and not signing doesn''t he?

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[quote user="Old Shuck"]

Like a challenge PC, so stepping in!

Bernard Robinson, Ron Ashman and Kevin Keelan?

The thread on Ruddy, Rudd and Forster has provoked and promoted a lot of debate and not a little falling out, but it is surely all academic as we aren''t going to be signing Forster anyway!

I don''t doubt there''ll be new keeper here come August, but, like others, think it''ll be someone 30 plus with some know how and Premier League nous.

It''s Ruddy''s shirt to lose and he has more than a few critics, so he''ll be under a lot of pressure from the word go. But Forster''s large shadow won''t be falling over him.

 

[/quote]

 

Quite right, Old Shuck! The days of one-club "servants". Not disappeared altogether but much less common now.

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smudger is correct about the best making wrong decisions. ''In Lambert we trust'' for many means we believe we will move the club forwards, not that everything he does is correct and is immune from questioning.

passionate thinking tends to overtake logical thinking when discussing the football club you love, but if one steps back and looks at this logically, with almost equal split, fans are of the opinion that forster is better or ruddy is better (with a few rudd supporters). Surley the overview suggests there is very little between their abilities - therefore, its a waste of 2million and probably a fair chunk of wages.

If we do end up in the bottom 3 next season, and we do start the season with the defence we have now, lambert will no doubt recieve the same critism for not tightening the back (gk esp) that worthy recieved for not strengthing the strikers last time, and right so in my view.

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[quote user="Smudger"]Never quiet me! [Y]

[/quote]Unless it''s your round! [;)]

 

[quote user="Smudger"]I would argue that that kind of support was killing the club at the time.  It wasn''t until McNally and then Lambert and Culverhouse walked through the door that the club deserved the kind of support it is now getting.  I am sure that you would''ve fed your children ethanol if the vast mojority of people in power had told you that it was a wise thing to do?

[/quote]If you and your ilk had got your way and removed Delia, then it''s highly unlikely that these three would have arrived at all.

 

[quote user="Smudger"]I supported the club at it''s lowest ebb and it has been on the up ever since.  I wont standback and watch anybody drag the club backwards though asthe vast majority did for at least 3 years before we hit that point though.

[/quote]No you didn''t. You refused to attend matches. Liar!

 

[quote user="Smudger"]Make sensible footballing decisions and whoever is in charge will get my support.  Make idiotic decisions that are going to harm the club and I will voice my concerns though.  Like Lambo, it ain''t often I am wrong - even though you have to try and note everything down that you think I may have called wrong in your little diary.

[/quote]HAH! You''ve been wrong about so many things, so many times, I could write a book. But who would buy it....apart from you?

[quote user="Smudger"]You on the other hand never voice any concerns that you may have because everybody must know better than you I assume?  Even Doncaster, Worthy at his worst, Grant, Roeder and Gunn the manager?

 

[/quote]Translator required to decipher this waffle I''m afraid!

 

[quote user="Smudger"]Seeing as you don''t like being proven wrong though - I will hand the reigns over to you for the last word... [;)]

 

[/quote]I think I''ve already had it! [:D]

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[quote user="Son Ova Gunn"]

smudger is correct about the best making wrong decisions. ''In Lambert we trust'' for many means we believe we will move the club forwards, not that everything he does is correct and is immune from questioning.

passionate thinking tends to overtake logical thinking when discussing the football club you love, but if one steps back and looks at this logically, with almost equal split, fans are of the opinion that forster is better or ruddy is better (with a few rudd supporters). Surley the overview suggests there is very little between their abilities - therefore, its a waste of 2million and probably a fair chunk of wages.

If we do end up in the bottom 3 next season, and we do start the season with the defence we have now, lambert will no doubt recieve the same critism for not tightening the back (gk esp) that worthy recieved for not strengthing the strikers last time, and right so in my view.

[/quote]

 

--

 

No. All that suggests - even if true as an assessment of how feeling is divided up on this board - is that fans are split. That doesn''t mean there isn''t much between the two keepers in terms of ability. As it happens I don''t think there is that split. Most fans now seem to think that either there is nothing between the two, or that Forster is slightly better, or that Forster is significantly better (which is my view). Very few people seem to think Ruddy is better; only that either he deserves to be given a chance (the sentimental view) or that we can''t afford Forster.

 

There is another point about taking the views of fans into account anyway. Goalkeeping IS different. Many fans (and many highly-aid pundits who were outfielders) don''t understand it and don''t know what to look for. Hence the emphasis purely on shot-stopping and distribution, when THE most important attribute for any keeper is judgment, and particularly positional judgment.

 

It is noticeable in all the threads of this subject I have yet to see a poster who is or was a goalkeeper come on and rate Ruddy highly. All the goalkeepers I have seen here have criticised him as not being PL material.

 

 

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[quote user="Smudger"]We would have never been losing in the first place if we had of had some people who knew their football running the club though Lapps. If fans had of heeded the warnings of where we were headed far earlier than what they did then so much damage would not have been done.

[/quote]

Quite right Smudger.

It was Bowkett and McNally that saved us from the rocks called Administration that we were heading for two years ago. They also got us a good manager.

 

 

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[quote user="lappinitup"]

[quote user="Smudger"]I supported the club at it''s lowest ebb and it has been on the up ever since.  I wont standback and watch anybody drag the club backwards though asthe vast majority did for at least 3 years before we hit that point though.

[/quote]

No you didn''t. You refused to attend matches. Liar!

[/quote]

You can  support the club without supporting the regime running it, e.g., during a period of the Chase regime people didn''t go because they disagreed with how the club was being run.

 

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[quote user="Tangible Fixed Assets anyone"]It was Bowkett and McNally that saved us from the rocks called Administration that we were heading for two years ago. They also got us a good manager.

 

[/quote]And it was Delia and the two Michaels who appointed McNally and later, persuaded Bowkett to join the board. Did you forget them Tangy or can''t you still find it in yourself to give them some credit?

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[quote user="Tangible Fixed Assets anyone"]You can  support the club without supporting the regime running it, e.g., during a period of the Chase regime people didn''t go because they disagreed with how the club was being run.

 

[/quote]Can you explain how that works Tangy? If people didn''t go, how were they supporting the club?

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your wasting your energy on this arguement lapp, they will simply say it was pure luck that they stubbled upon a decent appointment after so many bad ones, convienantly forgetting that at almost every other club most managerial appointments are considered bad with hindsight as the club failed to achieve the aspirations of its fans.

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Why can no one get over FF? all season all I''ve heard is people b***hin'' about Ruddy and lamneting the fact that Fraser Forster is not our keeper. It got real tireing, real fast and now I''m starting to hate the entire situation, watching both sides make up statistics, pull out season reviews and offer in depth analysis from their, I''m sure, vast wells of GK knowlege. By the way, anyone who thinks the season review DVD is a good way to judge Ruddy''s performances is a moron. The DVD only shows goals and almost no time is devoted to good goal keeping from either side.

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[quote user="lappinitup"][quote user="Tangible Fixed Assets anyone"]You can  support the club without supporting the regime running it, e.g., during a period of the Chase regime people didn''t go because they disagreed with how the club was being run.

 

[/quote]Can you explain how that works Tangy? If people didn''t go, how were they supporting the club?[/quote]

Ask the Chase outers such as your puppet master.

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[quote user="Tangible Fixed Assets anyone"]

It was Bowkett and McNally that saved us from the rocks called Administration that we were heading for two years ago. They also got us a good manager.

 

 

[/quote]

 

---

 

There was a time in my life when I had to understand the futures market. Sad but true. And I picked up a highly technical phrase that was commonly used to describe something that just wasn''t quite right. And that highly technical phrase was: "Utter b*ll*cks."

 

And that is what post is, Tangible. Utter b*ll*cks. Even if we were close to administration (and I seem to remember we won a libel action on the basis that we weren''t) the credit for regaining financial stability goes to the whole board. And that whole board includes Smith and Jones and all the others, all of whom were Smith and Jones appointees. Including McNally, after whom they went very specifically. And Bowkett, who had to be persuaded to join the board after saying publicly he didn''t want to.

 

Bowkett and McNally may well have drawn up the plan, but they could only do that because Smith and Jones had the good judgment to decide they were the people for the job.

 

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[quote user="Tangible Fixed Assets anyone"]Ask the Chase outers such as your puppet master.

 

[/quote]It didn''t take long for the name calling to begin rather than a structured reply. That WC seems to have failed some of you boys miserably. Should have stuck with EHS. [:$]

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These were all handling errors from Ruddy last season... Watford (h), Doncaster (a), Leicester (h), Burnley (h), Leeds (h), Swansea (a) - Ruddy flapped at the shot by Dobbie I think it was prior to the rebound dalling to Mark Gower for his excellent strike which resulted in the Taffs second goal that day, Watford (a), Coventry (h)

Not poor handling but dodgy keeping nonetheless... Crystal Palace (h) - not poor handling because Ruddy didn''t even get his hands on it when he should''ve done - controlled his area very badly that night too.

Millwall (a) - Ruddy came for a cross in the last minute and got no way near it - leaving an empty net.

Burnley (a) their 2nd and winning goal through Ruddy''s legs.

Bristol City (h) Adomah puts another one through Ruddy''s legs.

Forest (h) The infamous non clearance which led to Tyson''s flukey goal

__________________________________________

I think the following goals were not Ruddy''s fault - Forest (H) - very unfortunate, Bristol City (H) - Surman was too slow in tracking Adomah''s run, Burnley (A) - are you serious?! Swansea (A) - he parried a good shot which was then not cleared properly, Leeds (H) Gradel was left unmarked

Think you are being a bit harsh - the reason why we concede a ot of goals is mainly our attacking philosophy. I think he had a good season overall and had a better first year than Green did when he became Number 1.

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Not sure if it is true, but have been told today that Fraser Forster is staying at Dunston Hall and has been spotted browsing for possible accomodation in Norwich.  Just passing on info so don''t blame me if there is nothing in it.Also was told my Beau earlier that he was on a flight with a Celtic fan who didn''t rate him too highly the other week and that Celtic are supposed to be looking at Shay Given as their Number ONE choice.  Again, just passing on info...

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[quote user="Gareth"]Why can no one get over FF? all season all I''ve heard is people b***hin'' about Ruddy and lamneting the fact that Fraser Forster is not our keeper. It got real tireing, real fast and now I''m starting to hate the entire situation, watching both sides make up statistics, pull out season reviews and offer in depth analysis from their, I''m sure, vast wells of GK knowlege. By the way, anyone who thinks the season review DVD is a good way to judge Ruddy''s performances is a moron. The DVD only shows goals and almost no time is devoted to good goal keeping from either side.[/quote]Now, now... no need to get personal... because I would say that anybody who thinks that a goalkeeper who is more akin to a juggler is a good prospect of being Number ONE in anything other than a team that will be relegated from the Premiership is a moron in my opinion.8 errors where he either fumbled the ball or a shot went right through Ruddy in a season says everything to me that he is a passenger that we can ill-afford to carry in the Premiership.  This is to say nothing about his poor command of his defenders and that he is beaten to vast amounts of crosses put in to his 6 yard box.A good shot stopper and nothing else.  We are in for a tough start to the season unless we bring in a new Number ONE I''m afraid.

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