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EMMSY3

The Why Not Brewery - On The Ball

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[quote user="jayncfc"]So you would happily allow the use of the crest by anyone who wanted to use it as a means of tapping into an established market to make a quick quid?  It''s not BS, it''s protecting one of the clubs most liquid assets. Your probably the one of the first to moan when we have to sell a player to balance the books. [/quote]You better start here if you are a person of your words.http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Norwich-City-FC-25mm-Badge-NEW-Football-/180681345388?pt=UK_SportsMemorabilia_Football_Memorabilia_ET&hash=item2a1172896c

I''ll look for some others for you if you like.

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Looks dodgy who''s up for a snitch?http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/NORWICH-CITY-FC-Crested-Mini-Boxing-Gloves-/390242353586?pt=UK_Flags&hash=item5adc41c1b2

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Spangles you have silenced the doubters they have no argument.

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You been licensed for that buddy?  The snitch squad is on the case.http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/NORWICH-CITY-FC-CARROW-ROAD-STADIUM-PERSONALISED-MUG-/220756070374?pt=UK_Collectables_Kitchenalia_RL&hash=item3366164fe6

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What words are these? You make it sound like I said I was going to hunt down every breach of intellectual rights and/or copyrighted material associated with Norwich City.   The fact of the matter is making profit out of a product that is selling, sold or up for sale that uses the clubs material is in effect stealing. Stealing money from the bank balance of my club.  If your all for allowing third party use of our (my as you refer to it as their club, clearly asserting your allegiances not with Norwich City) clubs material, how do you propose to fill the gap made in official NCFC products or licensed products that bring in huge amounts each year?You can be as idealistic as you wish about the use of our clubs material, but I know how I''d prefer to operate the club, ensuring I still have a team to support with my children. This may have been a micro case, but you should start thinking about relating the policies outlined in this instance, to macro issues. 

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[quote user="jayncfc"]What words are these? You make it sound like I said I was going to hunt down every breach of intellectual rights and/or copyrighted material associated with Norwich City.   The fact of the matter is making profit out of a product that is selling, sold or up for sale that uses the clubs material is in effect stealing. Stealing money from the bank balance of my club.  If your all for allowing third party use of our (my as you refer to it as their club, clearly asserting your allegiances not with Norwich City) clubs material, how do you propose to fill the gap made in official NCFC products or licensed products that bring in huge amounts each year?You can be as idealistic as you wish about the use of our clubs material, but I know how I''d prefer to operate the club, ensuring I still have a team to support with my children. This may have been a micro case, but you should start thinking about relating the policies outlined in this instance, to macro issues.  [/quote]You''re the one trying to be idealistic. Some of us know full well this is just BS picking on the brewer when infringement of copyright has been going on for years.You''re trying to convince me, but when it comes down to it.  Are you going to snitch on those ebay sellers above?  Probably not.

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[quote user="SPANGLES"][quote user="jayncfc"]What words are these? You make it sound like I said I was going to hunt down every breach of intellectual rights and/or copyrighted material associated with Norwich City.   The fact of the matter is making profit out of a product that is selling, sold or up for sale that uses the clubs material is in effect stealing. Stealing money from the bank balance of my club.  If your all for allowing third party use of our (my as you refer to it as their club, clearly asserting your allegiances not with Norwich City) clubs material, how do you propose to fill the gap made in official NCFC products or licensed products that bring in huge amounts each year?You can be as idealistic as you wish about the use of our clubs material, but I know how I''d prefer to operate the club, ensuring I still have a team to support with my children. This may have been a micro case, but you should start thinking about relating the policies outlined in this instance, to macro issues.  [/quote]You''re the one trying to be idealistic. Some of us know full well this is just BS picking on the brewer when infringement of copyright has been going on for years.You''re trying to convince me, but when it comes down to it.  Are you going to snitch on those ebay sellers above?  Probably not.[/quote]I would have thought that the clubs new legal partners will be rightly issuing cease and desist letters to as many infringing parties as they can. At no point did I say it was my job to report these opportunists to the club and you can dress it up in dirty buzzwords such as "snitch" as much as you like to try and make it look like I''m the tyrant. What''s laughable is at no point did I ever say I was going to report any wrongdoings.What''s more to this argument is you can romanticize the plight of the "small time brewer" up against the "big bad corporate machine" as much as you want, the facts are quite clear. The Whynot brewery chanced their arm at making a few quid in a competitive market on the back of an existing fan base.  Money, that if the gap in the market was spotted by another brewery and went down the legitimate avenues to pursue, the club would have had a cut of.   Take your time, read my response and come back with something constructive, rather than the drivel you have been spouting off with. Deluding yourself into thinking at some point I set my mission in life to finding and reporting every piece of NCFC related copyright infringement is helping no one and clogging Archants already overworked server space.

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I''d give up if I were you jay. Copyrights are there for a reason and cost a lot to set up and protect, but for some reason anyone who does try to protect theirs is being unfair.

And in actual fact, whilst you are being accused of ''snitching'', the only person here who has actively ''snitched'' is Spangles, by somewhat hypocritically putting links up to potentially "dodgy" items.

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[quote user="jayncfc"][quote user="SPANGLES"][quote user="jayncfc"]What words are these? You make it sound like I said I was going to hunt down every breach of intellectual rights and/or copyrighted material associated with Norwich City.   The fact of the matter is making profit out of a product that is selling, sold or up for sale that uses the clubs material is in effect stealing. Stealing money from the bank balance of my club.  If your all for allowing third party use of our (my as you refer to it as their club, clearly asserting your allegiances not with Norwich City) clubs material, how do you propose to fill the gap made in official NCFC products or licensed products that bring in huge amounts each year?You can be as idealistic as you wish about the use of our clubs material, but I know how I''d prefer to operate the club, ensuring I still have a team to support with my children. This may have been a micro case, but you should start thinking about relating the policies outlined in this instance, to macro issues.  [/quote]You''re the one trying to be idealistic. Some of us know full well this is just BS picking on the brewer when infringement of copyright has been going on for years.You''re trying to convince me, but when it comes down to it.  Are you going to snitch on those ebay sellers above?  Probably not.[/quote]I would have thought that the clubs new legal partners will be rightly issuing cease and desist letters to as many infringing parties as they can. At no point did I say it was my job to report these opportunists to the club and you can dress it up in dirty buzzwords such as "snitch" as much as you like to try and make it look like I''m the tyrant. What''s laughable is at no point did I ever say I was going to report any wrongdoings.What''s more to this argument is you can romanticize the plight of the "small time brewer" up against the "big bad corporate machine" as much as you want, the facts are quite clear. The Whynot brewery chanced their arm at making a few quid in a competitive market on the back of an existing fan base.  Money, that if the gap in the market was spotted by another brewery and went down the legitimate avenues to pursue, the club would have had a cut of.   Take your time, read my response and come back with something constructive, rather than the drivel you have been spouting off with. Deluding yourself into thinking at some point I set my mission in life to finding and reporting every piece of NCFC related copyright infringement is helping no one and clogging Archants already overworked server space.[/quote]This is very true.As I tried to point out earlier in the thread, it is about marketing your product cleverly so that the bigger companies don''t have much of a leg to stand on when it comes to their intellectual property rights.You see David Winter of Winters Brewery in Norwich also released his beer recently called "On the Beer City" David did not only release the the beer for sale to coincide with the City of Ale Beer Festival, but it was also advertised in the local press for being released at the same time that we clinched promotion to the Premiership.Now because of the clever wording that David used and the fact that he wasn''t using the clubs logo etc any dispute that the club would have on David using their intellectual property unfairly would be extremely difficult for them to follow up.David Winter also previously released a dark beer when his customers asked him if he brewed stout and then went and called it "Geniuss" and has made jokes about not receiving a lawyers letter from Dublin.You see it is a bit of a game where you have to be cleverer than the company you wish to be making a link to.  It happens all the time!Unfortunately Mr Emms of Why Not Brewery has learnt a harsh lesson, which is a shame as it''s a nice product and a better beer than the Winters one in my opinion.  He should speak to the club and get their advice on any ideas he has for re-branding the beer.  It would be a shame to see it disappear and I am sure that whatever it is called Mr Emms brewery could pick up some fantastic PR if he handles what has happened in the right way.Good luck to him I say!

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[quote user="Branston Pickle"]I''d give up if I were you jay. Copyrights are there for a reason and cost a lot to set up and protect, but for some reason anyone who does try to protect theirs is being unfair.

And in actual fact, whilst you are being accused of ''snitching'', the only person here who has actively ''snitched'' is Spangles, by somewhat hypocritically putting links up to potentially "dodgy" items.[/quote]I was giving all you lot a chance to prove themselves whether they stand by what they believe.  It looks to me, people all to easily suck up to NCCB and agree, but when I''ve pointed out this brewery is 1 of 100s of breaches of copyright that has happened.  Nobody wants to do anything about it.I suppose it a human trait we all have. Just ignore it walk past and assume somebody else has it in hand.  And I''m now a hypocrite because nobody hasn''t a set, or care to admit, or want to snitch on these free loaders on Ebay

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SPANGLES why is it that anyone who doesn''t agree with your point of view is a snitch or sucking up to "NCCB"?Secondly how do any of us know what the Club are doing or have done about breaches of copyright? The only reason we know about The Why Not Brewery is because they went to the BBC about it.

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[quote user="Better Wizard"]Harry in answer to your question from various football drinking circles in a number of pubs that i frequent i know 100 percent of a number of fans and yes fans people who have been supporting this club through thick and thin who have been deemed surplus to requirements and have been given letters saying they are not welcome back to carrow road. These letters were issued by Mcnally and signed. The reasons for them being banned from carrow road vary. I will not go into exact details as its unfair on those that it has affected. Some of the reasons are as ridiculous as rushing to the front of the stand when a goal goes in. Yes there may be health hazards with this however it has always happened and happens at every away ground often in the away stands. They can''t stop it and banning fans who do this will not stop it. Watch it happen every time we score a prem goal next season. There are other reasons as well but like i said i won''t go into it.[/quote]I can''t proclaim to know the same people as you but like you I know a lot of City Fans that go in all different areas of the ground, I know it is wrong to presume but I presume that you live in Norwich and frequent the Pubs in Norwich, I only frequent Norwich Pubs on match days due to living in Gorleston but I regularly drink with Gorleston and Yarmouth based Norwich fans, I also know and meet up with a lot of the Northern Canaries, I was a member of the Northern Canaries when I lived in the North West.As things stand I personally know one person that has been given a banning order and that was after being taken to court after being arrested at an away match and plod had video of him standing at several grounds including Carrow Road.I''ve had my Season Ticket in the Snake Pit since I moved back to Norfolk in November 2009 but nearly always managed to get tickets in there or the Barclay when I managed to get down for games, before I moved away in 1995 I held a season ticket in the Barclay and had done from the early 1980''s.Like other Season Ticket Holders in the Snake Pit I had a letter from the club after the 1p5wich game about rushing down to the front of the stand and I hold my hands up and admit I was one of them and have done in moments of celebration on numerous occasions, it was sent after concerns raised by the Safety Advisory Group from Norfolk County Council  who issue the Club with it''s Safety Certificate

which say''s how many people can be inside Carrow Road and have the power to

reduce the capacity of any area of the ground, it hasn''t been said they will

reduce the capacity of the Snake Pit but could if it carries on and someone

gets hurt, if that is the case and they are on the clubs back that could be the reason why some people are being sent letters
saying they are not welcome back to Carrow road, I don''t know if the people in receipt of the letters do it for every goal that we score or if they do it every now and again, if it''s for every goal they are making themselves stand out to those in authority and that could be why.As for the others you know of who have been sent letters for other things do they make themselves stand out? Like I said in my earlier post if they are arguing with the stewards about standing it is easier to just plonk your rear end down until they have passed and then get back on your feet again and it makes you less likely to be noticed, this is something I have learnt from experience, you can get away with a lot more if you don''t attract attention to yourself.I don''t like to think of any Norwich fans being excluded from Carrow Road especially the more vocal ones but we all need to use common sense and not get ourselves banned.

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[quote user="Harry"]SPANGLES why is it that anyone who doesn''t agree with your point of view is a snitch or sucking up to "NCCB"?Secondly how do any of us know what the Club are doing or have done about breaches of copyright? The only reason we know about The Why Not Brewery is because they went to the BBC about it.

[/quote]1. I haven''t called anybody a snitch directly I don''t think.  I''ve said if people love this hard line approach they should join a snitch squad if they''re that enthusiastic.  I mean, some have practically suggested if the club don''t stamp it out it''ll have a detrimental effect on the future of the club. When we all know it''s been going on for years.2. They obviously aren''t being that rigid about it as there''s crap getting sold on Ebay.  Maybe the brewery was an easy target. I''m not very keen at all over this ''make an example of somebody'' policy that seems to be going on.

That''s all I''m saying I don''t particularly want to drag this out anymore.

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It''s a debate though isn''t it? I am sure someone once said, I detest what you say, but defend to the death your right to say it.The point of the matter is, as long as it doesn''t collapse into a slanging match, this is the main point to a forum, a good debate. Raising the issue of eBay has made me think this over a little more. I would hope on the back of this that eBay members selling faked products were receiving letters and being forced to stop, however in that situation there are ten more chancers in their position ready to jump on the bandwagon. With the brewer they were easy to pin down and serve with a cease and desist and then the WhyNot brewery ran to the media. But hey, in fairness.... WhyNot (excuse the awful, awful pun) it seems to have been a prudent business move. Moreover the romantacised "poor little business, ya know, that fella that ol'' Noorich City wen'' afta!" will probably play into their hands, and good luck to them.As with the Green and Yellow sausages, other mentioned ales. canary inflatables etc.etc.etc then yes, these are once more people tapping into the NCFC bandwagon. They do, however, play the game and all relative protection is giving to the NCFC brand as not to dilute their bartering position when the big boys come a knocking.  I hope, and this is clearly not the view of many, that NCFC serve everyone with the same orders and force them out of the market. In all honesty and in hindsight I am sure that everyone must think,including the owner of WhyNot, hand on heart, that using the clubs badge was the wrong thing to do. It was obvious infringement.

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Harry fair reply mate. Yes they perhaps do stand out more then others and perhaps push the boundaries at times however they have never been warned by the club about their actions it was just a straight ban after certain incidents that was deemed too much. I feel perhaps a warning letter would of been fairer. But what do i know. I just feel fans here are not felt wanted because perhaps we sell out. Would these fans be facing similar punishments if we had turnouts as poor as those down the road?

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I would just like to make a clear point about this, we did not approach the BBC, they heard about this and contacted us.They asked to come and do an interview about it and so we accepted.

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Broadstairs has covered it very well with his post... Remove the crest but keep the name... either that or contact the club and say "i''m more than happy to sell you the name to the OTBC beer, whats your price then NCFC?"unless NCFc can produce a document confirming they own the rights to either the song or the name "on the ball" then i''d stick 2 fingers up to them and carry on...someone at the club clearly needs to get a life!

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[quote user="jas the barclay king"]Broadstairs has covered it very well with his post... Remove the crest but keep the name... either that or contact the club and say "i''m more than happy to sell you the name to the OTBC beer, whats your price then NCFC?"unless NCFc can produce a document confirming they own the rights to either the song or the name "on the ball" then i''d stick 2 fingers up to them and carry on...someone at the club clearly needs to get a life![/quote]

Mcnally

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[quote user="Mello Yello"]

Alter the bottle label so it doesn''t display the club crest, but just depicts a canary sporting a yellow an'' green scarf......and still call it ''On the ball''.....

 

 

 

 

[/quote]

 

Agree with this. Not sure what all the fuss is about. he''s bang to rights for using the crest so simply remove that, keep "0n the Ball" and add "Up Yours Ale"

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[quote user="EMMSY3"]I would just like to make a clear point about this, we did not approach the BBC, they heard about this and contacted us.They asked to come and do an interview about it and so we accepted.[/quote]Apologies for saying you did, I was wrong to presume, but someone tipped off the BBC.

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[quote user="Better Wizard"][quote user="jas the barclay king"]Broadstairs has covered it very well with his post... Remove the crest but keep the name... either that or contact the club and say "i''m more than happy to sell you the name to the OTBC beer, whats your price then NCFC?"unless NCFc can produce a document confirming they own the rights to either the song or the name "on the ball" then i''d stick 2 fingers up to them and carry on...someone at the club clearly needs to get a life![/quote]

Mcnally[/quote]if it is him then he needs to have a good look at himself.

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Following the story without going into the detail my feelings are :

- there is no decent beer in the ground, the crap that is there is over priced, so if this is a decent ale then bring it on board, crest an all

- the crest is ours and the club is ours

- McNally should be careful, as this PR gaff is getting to annoy some of us, and when we move we ''re-move'' e.g he''s fat he''s round, bounce him on the ground, Robert .......

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For anyone who is not a native english speaker, you have to listen closely and be on the ball when I say this, the term on the ball has been part of the english language for some time and its has absolutley nothing to do with football.

Norwich CityFC, in their eagerness to reap as much dosh for their overpaid players, just like other premiereship clubs, has decided to threaten a local business with lawyers, regardless, thats their choice, as a supporter I do not agree. What a moronic way to start a season, lashing out at a local business, when they are already in receipt of milions of extar funds via TV rights. This is bad PR, full stop.

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Check the wikipedia definitions of "On The Ball" @ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_ball . It shows that it has been TV programs, computer games, films etc one of which was Australian also with green and yellow. Who can forget all those years of ITV''s "On The Ball" where many a Norwich game has been shown. So in my opinion apart from using the Norwich club crest the club have no copytight on the words "On The Ball" or the colours green and yellow. Just change the label from the club crest to something else and continue to brew the beer

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change the crest to a player in a yellow and green kit... after all many teams play in Yellow and Green and it can no way be attributed to Norwich.. just a passing similarity that the club would have to deal with.we will be suing Hitchin Town and Fenerbache next.

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Had a phone call from Dad today, and was told that Chocolate

Nutter - One of the Why Not Brewerys best beers has just been crowned

Top Norfolk Bottled Beer 2011

Also for anyone who is interested, On The Ball, has now been renamed to Hair Of

The Dog. My Dad did read through all of this thread and was grateful for everyone’s

comments.

Maybe when he makes a new beer he might go back down the football route but

with a lot more caution this time.

Cheers

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[quote user="EMMSY3"]

Had a phone call from Dad today, and was told that Chocolate

Nutter - One of the Why Not Brewerys best beers has just been crowned

Top Norfolk Bottled Beer 2011

Also for anyone who is interested, On The Ball, has now been renamed to Hair Of

The Dog
. My Dad did read through all of this thread and was grateful for everyone’s

comments.

Maybe when he makes a new beer he might go back down the football route but

with a lot more caution this time.

Cheers

[/quote]Careful, that''s a registered trade mark for sure.

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Good Luck Emmsy3 with the beer and future projects, sorry our club have been a bit of a pain for you. [:$]

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