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EMMSY3

The Why Not Brewery - On The Ball

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Hello

I have seen there is already a post about this, but I would

like to get my view on this, I may have not made many posts on the forum but I

have been a member for a long time

Going back to the time from when my Dad made “Cheese board” appeared

in the river end, and I’m sure some of you will remember this.

So Mr Cheese board is the same man now who made and runs “The

Why Not Brewery” which created the “On The Ball” beer, which in my opinion is fantastic

ale, and for 3 years of not being in the big time, the football club did not

raise an eyebrow about.

It’s a whole different story now that we are back in the big

time where we belong. But for the club to now start raising an issue with this

beer makes me very upset. My dad has been a lifelong season ticket holder and I

don’t remember him missing a home game. I can understand that using the crest

can cause problems, but for the club to come out and say that he cannot use the

phrase “On the ball” and the colours yellow and green is a bit bizarre. They have

gone as far as saying he cannot even have a canary on the logo. I do not have a

master in law but can this be done?

In basically writing this to try and see if we can get some

kind of backing here to keep this very successful beer going as it has done for

the last few years! I know this is a long shot but I hope if I can get the

support from the fellow Norwich fans and just hope the club may stumble across

this and realises that taking my dad in to legal battles over a beer that

promotes our football club is the complete wrong move!

 

OTBC

 

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My wife bought me a bottle for my Christmas stocking just gone. I''ve had the (Empty) bottle on my shelf for the last 6 months as I think its a nice thing.

 

You''d fully have my support. It only becomes an issue for them if they allow these things to go unchecked, there is no reason that they couldn''t give an excemption and i''m sure they are fully aware that this one item hasn''t harmed their business - Like you say, for the last 3 years they haven''t been in the PL.

 

Give the ''little man'' a break.

 

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You''re obviously correct to be concerned about using the crest as this is undoubtedly copyrighted the other grievances the club have brought are up are a little more ambiguous. The words "On the ball" are not copyrighted or even copyrightable since it is a phrase in common usage, it may be closely related to our famous song but here''s a bummer for the club: They don''t own the song and since it was written by anon and more than 75 years have elapsed since it was first aired publicly there''s no copyright claimable by anyone. This would only be of legal concern if the arrangement of the three words occured in the song in an unusual manner ie one that isn''t common usage but they don''t so without adding the word "City" to the phrase there is no direct link to the club anyway, even if the beer were called "On the ball city" or "OTBC" ale there''s no way the club can claim intellectual property rights as they simply never held them in the first instance. Purporting to be associated to the club is a tricky one, "On The Ball - Norwich City Football Ale" is arguably the closest it could be named as OTBC is covered as above and of course there''s no limitation on using "Norwich City" but imo "On The Ball - Norwich Football Ale" would be safer as the club then wouldn''t have anything more than a tenuous claim at very best. A disclaimer stating clearly that the beer is not associated with or endorsed by the club puts to bed the question that would be asked in court ie "Would a normal person upon reading the label reach the conclusion that the beer was endorsed by the football club". The club are not the only football club in Norwich.They can''t stop you using a canary either but I would strongly advise that a simplistic canary facing right might be part of the trademark and using any combination of a canary/castle/football is almost undoubtedly taboo too.Trademark no 2534486 is registered by the club and is for the text "Norwich City Football Club", tm no 1012458 is for the text "Norwich City FC" and trademark 987831 is for the crest which appears to be registered as the crest in its entirety as drawn rather than "a canary perched on a football with a castle" There is of course no trademark relating to the text "On the ball" or "OTBC", "Norwich City Football Ale" etc. etc.Why not call it "On The Ball - Norwich Football Ale", add a disclaimer and run a competition for someone to design a new logo?

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Its a sad chapter; a bullying large organisations looking out for itself rather than embracing the little guy by embracing the beer and stocking it as part of club memorablia.

Fair does about the crest - its the club mark and he agreed readily to remove it. but for the words they are not powned by the club at all, the words / title of our historic anthemic dirge are not "owned" by anoyone but the community.

It promotes the club and city in a positive way; until NCFC made an overreactive stance. I guiess there is a sid eB to the story - there usually is. But thisi something I wold expect Ipswich or Manure to do, not a progressive inclusive community club that I thought our heritage says we are..

Change your mind mcnally.

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Unfortunately this is how business works, the brewery here is being made an example of in much that same way as Luke was over his racist tweets. Call them warning shots if you like.

 

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Why the club doesn''t turn this into a marketing opportunity is beyond me.  Firstly the brewery could supply the club with ale for home matchdays which would provide an alternative to the horrific lager that is presently sold.  Secondly if the club were to reach agreement with the Brewery to a % of the sale profits surely everyone would be happy.  The club would have a great ale that surely supporters would be keen to buy and the brewery would have an incentive to market it etc.  Could even sell bottles of it in the Club shop.

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I agree with all that has been said above. It is a PR disaster for the club. They should have just asked to remove the crest and leave it at that.It also seems one rule for Woodfordes and another for your Dad.As another person has said, the club could also ask for a deal to sell the beer as a novelty gift item in the club shops and on a matchday.Ask to meet the club, agree to change the logo, and take some chilled beers with you for them to try. See if you can do a deal.

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Alter the bottle label so it doesn''t display the club crest, but just depicts a canary sporting a yellow an'' green scarf......and still call it ''On the ball''.....

 

 

 

 

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i love the idea of doing a deal with the club- would be massively popular in scores and at half-time rather than bloody carling and worthingtons!

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Emmsy so sorry to what has happened. I think it''s a total disgrace and i have been one who has always been against mcnally ever since he started removing certain people out the snakepit as though he was a member of the Gastapo over the last few years. I thought he was wrong to ban that Luke for life as well if im honest but that is another matter.

If you read my posts on the other thread you wll see exactly my thought on your fathers business and its a shame that a team that has just brought in 50 million for going up has to be so petty to stop a man from make a living. It''s a hard industry the beer and ale one and your father found a great USP and sales would of rocketed this year. Again it''s a disgrace and i don''t care if MCnally has ''saved'' the club. I don''t want our community to suffer because of it. MCnally out he''s finally gone too far. I will be sending him an email next week.

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Hi EMMSY3, I have nothing against The Why Not Brewery in fact completely the opposite, I love my ales and like to support local breweries but The Why Not Brewery were in the wrong using the

clubs crest without permission in the first place, if they had released

the beer with say a green label with On the Ball in yellow the club

would probably have let it go.

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[quote user="Better Wizard"]Emmsy so sorry to what has happened. I think it''s a total disgrace and i have been one who has always been against mcnally ever since he started removing certain people out the snakepit as though he was a member of the Gastapo over the last few years. I thought he was wrong to ban that Luke for life as well if im honest but that is another matter.

If you read my posts on the other thread you wll see exactly my thought on your fathers business and its a shame that a team that has just brought in 50 million for going up has to be so petty to stop a man from make a living. It''s a hard industry the beer and ale one and your father found a great USP and sales would of rocketed this year. Again it''s a disgrace and i don''t care if MCnally has ''saved'' the club. I don''t want our community to suffer because of it. MCnally out he''s finally gone too far. I will be sending him an email next week.[/quote][IMG]http://i530.photobucket.com/albums/dd347/barclayendchoir/loser.jpg[/IMG]

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[quote user="Better Wizard"] MCnally out he''s finally gone too far. I will be sending him an email next week.[/quote]

Are you for real or just a wind up merchant?

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Harry and Til. No need for a personal attack on me i am nothing more then one fan airing his views. I may be wrong but i do have a problem with Mcnally. I compare his to Mussolini. Mussolini was loved by the majority of the Italian people because he helped their citizens to a better life. Those that were not seen as Italian citizens or those who realized what he was like behind all the show of greatness were removed or were made silent. This has happened too much at Norwich and i refuse to give in to a dictatorship. We are the people and we must open our eyes up. Can i ask you til being a ex copper....how many fans has MCnally banned from carrow road whether it has gone as far as going to the cops or not after is another matter. But firstly how many has he banned form the ground from things such as idiotic twitter remarks to slightly ott goal celebrations. I know the fact because i sit with the people that oppose him. GIve it 2 more seasons and people will open their eyes and no doubt you will all forget what i said here but we then can move on as a community and family club.

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i''m afraid emmsy that the club was perfectly right in saying that your father should stop using the canary logo, it is NCFC''s brand and an unsuspecting drinker may assume that the club has gone into the brewery business, how would he like it if another business decided to make bar snacks and then uses his name, logo and reputation to sell them alongside his ales,

however....

the club has absolutely no right in dictating him what colours he can or cant use, or the words Norwich City, or an image of a canary, there are countless number of businesses in the city, eg taxis, takeways, tradesman who use canary in their title or logo, are the club gong to pursue all of these?

Because the Club is part of the make-up of Norwich, it s as much a part of the landscape of the city as the Castle, Cathedral, etc, and local businesses should be free to be associated with aspects of the place they operate in when promoting their businesses, the club doing this is akin to the church of england deciding to sue Aviva for using the symbol of the Norwich Cathedral in their logo.

As for not allowing you to use "on the ball city", well that is absolutely disgraceful, firstly it is not ''owned'' by the club , it and many other songs sang are owned by the fans, they make them up, the club cant put a trademark on them. How many times has the club used on merchandise things that have originated from terrace talk, can we sue them for using our intellectual property? If they can put a stop on people using lyrics of a song outside of the stadium then we should be entitled to stop them exploiting us.

and i hate to break it to some of you, but "on the ball city" is not a totally original song, it was in fact first used by a football team of teachers and then adopted when the club was first formed, substituting the word teachers for city, so the club cant even lay claim of ownership to the song.

tell your dad to take off the logo, but carry on brewing it, using yellow and green, canaries, ''on the ball city'' whatever you want, good luck to him and tell the club to get lost.

might i suggest "on the beer city" as an alternative?

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I''ve posted this earlier on ''It''s just not football''...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-norfolk-13906019

Much as I can understand the club objecting to the use of the club crest, the words ''On the Ball'' are a recognised saying. And not something I would automatically associate with Norwich City Football Club. So why the guy can''t produce an ale called ''On the Ball'' is beyond me.

Sledgehammer and Nut?

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[quote user="Better Wizard"]Harry and Til. No need for a personal attack on me i am nothing more then one fan airing his views. I may be wrong but i do have a problem with Mcnally. I compare his to Mussolini. Mussolini was loved by the majority of the Italian people because he helped their citizens to a better life. Those that were not seen as Italian citizens or those who realized what he was like behind all the show of greatness were removed or were made silent. This has happened too much at Norwich and i refuse to give in to a dictatorship. We are the people and we must open our eyes up. Can i ask you til being a ex copper....how many fans has MCnally banned from carrow road whether it has gone as far as going to the cops or not after is another matter. But firstly how many has he banned form the ground from things such as idiotic twitter remarks to slightly ott goal celebrations. I know the fact because i sit with the people that oppose him. GIve it 2 more seasons and people will open their eyes and no doubt you will all forget what i said here but we then can move on as a community and family club.[/quote]As you said "I am nothing more then one fan airing his views" and that is my view of you.[IMG]http://i530.photobucket.com/albums/dd347/barclayendchoir/JesusLovesYouSmall.gif[/IMG]

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You need strong leadership to run a business, time will tell if the hardcore supporters who have supported city during the recent bad times will be priced out of future success, i fear so. That is my worry of McNally

H

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Afternoon people.

Thank you for some interesting thoughts from everyone, I was not expecting to

get so much feed back here.

@ plan b - I do agree about them wanting the crest of the label, I think when

the decision was made to make a beer that could related to his one and only

football club that he has been following for years he wasn’t really thinking

about the consequence, he was just happy to show his pride in the club by

putting it in to another one of his life hobbies, and for 3 years it was ok.

The club approached him and told him NOT to produce any more of the beers which

he has followed what they said because at the end of the day a local micro

brewery cannot afford to go in to battle with a multimillion business like

NCFC.

My dad looks over the pinkun forum most days and he has been happy to see such

kind words from people, although his computer skills do suck which is why he

has not written anything on here himself.

What happens next to the ball we will see but all your ideas have been noted.

Thank you

On The Ball! 

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Here''s the problem that will develop between supporters/fans.Fans such as Better Wizard (myself up to a point I suppose) can make a clear distinction between Norwich City the Football Club. And Norwich City the Commercial Business.  We all love NCFC but some of us think NCCB f*cking stink sometimes.  Believe me, more fans will think NCCB will stink, the more NCFC if/when succeed further.If you take this brewery debacle as an example.  Say you fancy a NCFC tattoo, will that become a thing of the past because the artist will say, ''Can''t do it mate, the licence costs too much.  If I get caught I''m in the sh*t with NCCB''.

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I echo what has been said above. The club crest is NCFC''s property for sure, but On The Ball? Its not even On the Ball, City.

Seems a coincidence that they decide to act as we get into the Prem and not last season of before.

I have read the club''s statement, and while it speaks of intellectual rights, OTBC clearly isn''t, but who has the money to fight their action?

I hope the brewer continues making the ale, with the modifications but keeping the name.

I remember Arsenal trying to claim the term ''Gooners'' a couple of years back, and were met by a backlash from fans, maybe we should create a backlash here too.

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Spangles cheers mate. People just don''t like me because i have views that to some seems extreme however they don''t have the intellect to realize how the powerful get away with their absurd ways of having maximum control. Read the news report on the norwich website about it. It even seems to me to suggest they tried to hush up the whole matter and wanted the brewery to keep hush about the whole episode. However for once the little man has spoken up and now the big man doesn''t like it. They realize they have got bad press over the whole incident. And for this ''small'' matter i won''t be making the trip to wigan Norwich city football club can stuff it. However i will be there to support my team on our first home game. I will never not be a supporter even if they become the next man uniteds or chelsea''s they are still my team. However i will forever fight the corporate nature our game is becoming. Thanks all supporters. And for those who seem to not agree with my views one day you will realize what is happening when you cant even afford to go to a ground that doesn''t sell out. It won''t surprise me at all if we start to get an empty stadium ourself as well as not having the same traveling support we currently have. We are all being exploited but one day the cash from us fans will run out.

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[quote user="Largey"]If anything isn''t this good publicity for your brewery?[/quote]You''re probably right actually.  Re-print some labels and name it ''McNasty'' in an ironic way.McNasty Beer for City Bad BoysYou can have that for free!

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Unfortunately it would probably be impossible to stock On The Ball in the bars at The Rud because we probably have exclusivity deals with an alcohol company. I can''t be bothered to look it up but I''m sure Carling, Worthingtons etc are all owned by the same company. I also think that now we''re in the Premiership, our official beer has to be Budweiser but I''m not entirely sure. This might all be a load of rubbish by the way but I have a hunch this will be the case.

I remember years ago I wanted to make my own Norwich City mugs for use around the house, which would have incorporated the crest, but no high-street photo companies would let me do it for fear of copyright infringement. To be honest I''m surprised these beers have not been clamped down sooner (not that I''m saying they SHOULD be) and that Jarrolds sold them in store if they were never passed fit by the powers that be at Carrow Road; especially as Jarrolds and the club work so closely together.

I do feel for the guy BUT he does make money from people buying it due to the crest. Just a point

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[quote user="Harry"]Hi EMMSY3, I have nothing against The Why Not Brewery in fact completely the opposite, I love my ales and like to support local breweries but The Why Not Brewery were in the wrong using the

clubs crest without permission in the first place, if they had released

the beer with say a green label with On the Ball in yellow the club

would probably have let it go.
[/quote]

I presume you''ll support their stance when they start to give you a hard time for continually using images of players and the crest etc that some people are apparently using as designs for unofficial T shirts, ot have you asked for/obtained permission from the club?

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