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John

The D&G Steve Morison Analysis

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Graham undoubtedly had a great season compared to Morison''s solid, if not spectacular one. However there are several factors that play into Graham''s hands when comparing the two. It sounds like Morison was carrying an injury for much of the season, and after Christmas also had sections of the crowd booing him at any opportunity because they thought he wanted to leave, that''s not really going to help a players confidence.

Comparing the two teams, while Millwall ended up a reasonable number of points ahead of Watford, they did so playing in a much more conservative, defensive way. Look at their goals scored/conceded Millwall 62/48, Watford 77/71. Clearly playing in a near all out attack formation is going to help your forwards score goals (and get assists). Graham was also aided by the fact that he had a very able partner up front in Sordell (who coincidently I would rather have signed than either Graham or Morison) to split centre backs'' attentions and create space. Millwall didn''t have another striker who managed to score half a dozen.

While Graham was great this season, he hasn''t managed 20 goals a season before so £3.5m starts to seem like a lot of money of the back on one great year... Also we don''t really know the true costs of the signings, maybe the 3.5m is up front with more to come in add-ons? Also would Graham have been willing to join whilst knowing there''s a good chance that he wouldn''t first choice? It''d be hard to drop Holt or Jackson for anyone given their form at the end of the season, and we have a strong forward line up already, whereas Swansea have just lost their first choice (and only good) striker to Parma.

I agree with you that Morison is no Holt, but then neither is Graham. But Morison is a different sort of striker to what we have already, where Graham seems to fit into the Vaughan mould, or at least what we hope Vaughan will become.

Overall yes Morison is a risk at 2m+, but I''d take 2 risks in him and Vaughan over putting all my eggs in Graham''s untested basket.

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Just watched Graham''s & Morison''s gols back to back. Graham is clearly a clinical finisher who will punish defensive errors. There will be a lot less of those in the Prem. Morison ''s goals were more often the ''something out of nothing'' variety. Also he seems the more powerful player, which is useful when tussling with muscular & skilful defenders.I don''t think I''d pay more for Graham than Morison. Less for CMS.We''ll find out their relative values soon enough.

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[quote user="ron obvious"]Just watched Graham''s & Morison''s gols back to back. Graham is clearly a clinical finisher who will punish defensive errors. There will be a lot less of those in the Prem. Morison ''s goals were more often the ''something out of nothing'' variety. Also he seems the more powerful player, which is useful when tussling with muscular & skilful defenders.I don''t think I''d pay more for Graham than Morison. Less for CMS.We''ll find out their relative values soon enough.[/quote]Inclined to agree. We will all be so much the wiser in a few months time. It looks to me that Swansea are following our lead in signing good quality Championship players rather than the the low grade Prem players who usually swap clubs when the relegation trap door opens. I think we saw enough of the Sibierski type to realise that its not the way forward.Perhaps another forward a couple of defenders and a quality midfielder will be enough to give us a good base for the trials ahead.

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I expect a lot of what has been written about Morison by Millwall fans is out of bitterness - if he was as poor in front of goal as they''re making out then why are they all so furious about him leaving?! 15 goals at Championship level is still an excellent return and one that commands the fee we''ve paid for him in this day and age.  As for Graham, surely he''s just as much of a gamble having never been proven at Prem level either. Who is to say he will adjust better than Morison?  Ebanks Blake set the Championship on fire and won Wolves the league. Couldn''t hit a barn door in the Prem. Graham has been a bit over hyped IMO - yes he''s scored sh*t loads this season but was hardly prolific prior to this year even at League 1 level.  It''s all about confidence with strikers as we have seen with Jacko.  The most important thing is that the fans and manager get fully behind them, don''t write them off before they''ve had a chance and remain patient even when things may not be going to plan.  Lambert will do his bit in fostering that confidence.  I only hope the fans do their bit to.

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What follows is a very, very long post full of statistics. You have been warned.Okay, Milwall are not a better team than Watford, at least when it comes to goals. In terms of defence, Milwall are miles better, but that''s not what strikers make their money from. Watford scored a total of 77 goals last season (note: all numbers are done using my mathematics skills so there may be slight errors) and conceded a total of 71. Whilst Danny Graham scored a, quite remarkable, 24 goals other players had healthy goal returns. Watfords top 5 goalscorers are as follows:

Danny Graham 24

Marvin Sordell 12

John Eustace 6

Martin Taylor 6

Jordan Mutch 5

Watford without Danny Graham would have scored 53 goals last season, putting them amongst the lowest goalscorers in the championship but above Milwall if they did not have Steve Morrison.

Milwall were nowhere near Watford in terms of goals scored (Milwall scored 62) but were much more solid defensively (conceding only 48 too Watford''s 61.) The old cliche of ''keeeping a clean sheet and your job''s half done'' applies to Millwall. The lower goal scoring tally of Millwall can be put down to two things. Either:

a) Steve Morrison is not as good a striker as Graham and can''t score as many or

b) Millwall, as a team, prioritised defence over attack

I hope my futher posts show the awnser is b not a.

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[quote user="Mister Chops"][quote user="John"]Whilst i understand how pre-judgment can often be haphazardly pre-judged on here
[/quote]

Sorry, you''ve lost me there.

[/quote]

You''re not the only one !!   All I will say is that IMO we already have a player that will turn out better than Morison or Graham. I just hope that Lambert realises this.

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In response to my last post:(Watford''s conceded should read 71)Another way to check how good Morrison and Graham are comparitively are assists. Not only how many they provided themselved but how many others provided. Whilst the assist stat itself is finicky and quite hard to apply, I am hoping that the ammount of assists can be used as an idea as to how attacking a team is.Watford had a total of 56 assists, with Don Cowie providing 14 of those assists, this seems to show an attacking side as a list of assisters shows that 8 players got 3 assists or more with a futher 7 getting  2 or less.Milwall have officialy got 37 assists, with their highest assister being James Henry with 9. Only two players got more than 5 (Morrison and Henry) and a further 4 got 3 or more assists. 2 players got 2 assists and another 6 got 1 each.This seems to point out two things in my mind, firstly Watford were at their core more attacking, they scored more goals and created more chances when compared to Millwall and it also shows that not only did Watford attack more they attacked more effectively, with more people scoring or providing assists than Millwall, who only seemed to have Henry and Morrison providing genuine attacking quality.

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Final Post:Another thing that comes to mind is formations. Watford played a 4-4-2 for most of the season. Graham and Sordell up top, Cowie and Buckley wide, with Eustace and Mutch (later Drinkwater) playing as central midfielders.Millwall played a hybrid 4-5-1/4-3-3 formation. Morrison was often upfront by himself and reliant on either his wide midfielders or midfield runners to back him up. Only Henry really helped (Scoring 5 and setting up 9) with others being less effective. Morrisons two strike partners were Lisbe and Robinson who scored 7 goals between them. This is less than Grahams much more effective Partner Sordell who scored 12 and set up 3.In conclusion, the difference in talent between the two is debateable, but in terms of a team effort it is quite obvious that Graham got more support than Morrison. Does this mean that the 9 goal difference between the two can be explained purely on team mates efforts and the attitude of the team? That I do not know but it is clearly apparent that Morrison would have benifited from playing in a team like Watford, an open attcking team, than Milwall who were much more defensive and didn''t get the best out of their striker.Note:I only count league Goals Sources:http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/m/millwall/tables/default.stm - for total goals scored amongst teams.http://www.football-league.co.uk/page/DivisionalAssists/0,,10794~20077,00.html - for assistshttp://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/eng_div_1/default.stm - The Milwall and Watford pages respectively for the top 5 goalscorers amonst the teams.Very long and statistical three part post has now ended.

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[quote user="paul moy"]

[quote user="Mister Chops"][quote user="John"]Whilst i understand how pre-judgment can often be haphazardly pre-judged on here[/quote]Sorry, you''ve lost me there.[/quote]

You''re not the only one !!   All I will say is that IMO we already have a player that will turn out better than Morison or Graham. I just hope that Lambert realises this.

[/quote]who are you thinking of? I would suggest Jackson in the longer term but Holt next year, he will be top scorer again!

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[quote user="Gareth"]Very long and statistical three part post has now ended. [/quote]Good reading though, thanks for taking the time.[Y]

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[quote user="Sir Humphrey Appleby"][quote user="paul moy"]

[quote user="Mister Chops"][quote user="John"]Whilst i understand how pre-judgment can often be haphazardly pre-judged on here[/quote]Sorry, you''ve lost me there.[/quote]

You''re not the only one !!   All I will say is that IMO we already have a player that will turn out better than Morison or Graham. I just hope that Lambert realises this.

[/quote]who are you thinking of? I would suggest Jackson in the longer term but Holt next year, he will be top scorer again![/quote]It''s Cody McDonald. My confidence in Cody is less assertive from me than it is from Moy, but it is one thing where me and Moy have long been on the same wavelength - even if we struggle understanding eachother otherwise (apparently).

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Last year we were the divisions top scorers, so that suggests to me that in the goals department we shouldn''t struggle too much. On the other hand, at times we were a bit shaky in defence. Although Graham may have scored more than Morrison, we don''t need the extra goals in the team, we need someone who is willing to be potential back up to Holt/Jackson. This shows massive commitment for me, Morrison knows he might sit on the bench for a lot of next season, but is confident enough/willing enough to prove himself in the Premiership that he will take that chance.

Anyway, as others have said, there are so many ifs and buts. Nobody on here knows what will happen, or even if we might have put a bid in for Graham ourselves. If at the end of next season Graham scores 12+ yet Morrison only manages say 5 and we get relegated, then perhaps we can say that Lambert got this decision wrong.

However if the difference between these two allows us to buy a quality defender or keeper, who keeps us in many games over the season, and we survive, then I don''t think anyone can moan.

Plus lets remember, Lambert looked as though he was going to get the decision to buy Jackson wrong, and look how he turned out.

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[quote user="John"][quote user="Sir Humphrey Appleby"][quote user="paul moy"]

[quote user="Mister Chops"][quote user="John"]Whilst i understand how pre-judgment can often be haphazardly pre-judged on here[/quote]Sorry, you''ve lost me there.[/quote]

You''re not the only one !!   All I will say is that IMO we already have a player that will turn out better than Morison or Graham. I just hope that Lambert realises this.

[/quote]who are you thinking of? I would suggest Jackson in the longer term but Holt next year, he will be top scorer again![/quote]It''s Cody McDonald. My confidence in Cody is less assertive from me than it is from Moy, but it is one thing where me and Moy have long been on the same wavelength - even if we struggle understanding eachother otherwise (apparently).[/quote]I like Cody but I don''t think he is as good as Jackson will be or as good as Holt is. I think he flatters to deceive because he is a nice guy with a story that endears him and he tries so very hard, but I just think he lacks a first touch and that bit of real quality. I''d like to see him given a chance but I think he''ll go to a League One team next year and we''ll have to see what happens to him from there, I do hope - if he leaves - that he goes somewhere better than Gillingham...a Huddersfield or somewhere where he has a chance of getting to the Championship would be appropriate.

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[quote user="Sir Humphrey Appleby"][quote user="John"][quote user="Sir Humphrey Appleby"][quote user="paul moy"]

[quote user="Mister Chops"][quote user="John"]Whilst i understand how pre-judgment can often be haphazardly pre-judged on here[/quote]Sorry, you''ve lost me there.[/quote]

You''re not the only one !!   All I will say is that IMO we already have a player that will turn out better than Morison or Graham. I just hope that Lambert realises this.

[/quote]who are you thinking of? I would suggest Jackson in the longer term but Holt next year, he will be top scorer again![/quote]It''s Cody McDonald. My confidence in Cody is less assertive from me than it is from Moy, but it is one thing where me and Moy have long been on the same wavelength - even if we struggle understanding eachother otherwise (apparently).[/quote]I like Cody but I don''t think he is as good as Jackson will be or as good as Holt is. I think he flatters to deceive because he is a nice guy with a story that endears him and he tries so very hard, but I just think he lacks a first touch and that bit of real quality. I''d like to see him given a chance but I think he''ll go to a League One team next year and we''ll have to see what happens to him from there, I do hope - if he leaves - that he goes somewhere better than Gillingham...a Huddersfield or somewhere where he has a chance of getting to the Championship would be appropriate.[/quote]It''s a fair standpoint, and one many have taken to. However, as i covered previously, my confidence in Holt was founded on ''equals'' of the past few years - players with similar records. I''ve mearly applied the same to McDonald, and on the basis of that, there appears to be more than enough evidence to suggest he''ll cut it in the Championship.Davide Somma''s career for one is more or less mirrored by McDonald in terms of the track record of their year by year progression, if not locality - and he''s been one of the most lethal players at this level.As for the Premiership, as others of covered, we''re devoid of assurances on these players, just as we are with McDonald. But he''s achieved enough to be deserving of our perseverence in my mind. Being League Two''s ''Player Of The Year'', and comprehensively eclipsing 20 goals in his first full league season, more than enough of it in fact.

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[quote user="John"][quote user="Sir Humphrey Appleby"][quote user="John"][quote user="Sir Humphrey Appleby"][quote user="paul moy"]

[quote user="Mister Chops"][quote user="John"]Whilst i understand how pre-judgment can often be haphazardly pre-judged on here[/quote]Sorry, you''ve lost me there.[/quote]

You''re not the only one !!   All I will say is that IMO we already have a player that will turn out better than Morison or Graham. I just hope that Lambert realises this.

[/quote]who are you thinking of? I would suggest Jackson in the longer term but Holt next year, he will be top scorer again![/quote]It''s Cody McDonald. My confidence in Cody is less assertive from me than it is from Moy, but it is one thing where me and Moy have long been on the same wavelength - even if we struggle understanding eachother otherwise (apparently).[/quote]I like Cody but I don''t think he is as good as Jackson will be or as good as Holt is. I think he flatters to deceive because he is a nice guy with a story that endears him and he tries so very hard, but I just think he lacks a first touch and that bit of real quality. I''d like to see him given a chance but I think he''ll go to a League One team next year and we''ll have to see what happens to him from there, I do hope - if he leaves - that he goes somewhere better than Gillingham...a Huddersfield or somewhere where he has a chance of getting to the Championship would be appropriate.[/quote]It''s a fair standpoint, and one many have taken to. However, as i covered previously, my confidence in Holt was founded on ''equals'' of the past few years - players with similar records. I''ve mearly applied the same to McDonald, and on the basis of that, there appears to be more than enough evidence to suggest he''ll cut it in the Championship.Davide Somma''s career for one is more or less mirrored by McDonald in terms of the track record of their year by year progression, if not locality - and he''s been one of the most lethal players at this level.As for the Premiership, as others of covered, we''re devoid of assurances on these players, just as we are with McDonald. But he''s achieved enough to be deserving of our perseverence in my mind. Being League Two''s ''Player Of The Year'', and comprehensively eclipsing 20 goals in his first full league season, more than enough of it in fact.[/quote]I live in Kent at the moment and a couple of my friends have season tickets at the Gills, their view is that he is a good player - too good for them is the standard quote - but not as good as Simeon was. They have been very complimentary of him but they do say that he lacks a first touch (we saw that when he played) and he has a tendency to miss the odd sitter. I''m not doing him down and would love to see him come good, but those who watched him last year did not consider of the quality that would go on and make a name for himself at the top level, the consensus was that he could be a good Championship striker but needed another full year to iron out some more of the rough edges.In light of the limited chances we are likely to get next year we cannot give him the time and patience he would need to develop, he only has one year on his contract so if we loan him out that would probably be the last we saw of him so I think we might be better off taking whatever money we can for him and wishing him well.

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[quote user="ZippersLeftFoot"][quote user="I am a Banana"]mistake in the 1st line, Steve Morrision from watford?[/quote]

fine opinion - its not all about the player - PL wants 5 more players this season and cost, experience and ability to have an impact this season, attitude (does PL like morisons more than grahams) and ability to fit in with teh squad come into it.

Whether we think there are better options is why this board is here - to debate them; questioning PL is fine and discussing it here by debate rather than just responding well "pl does not think so" is pointless

John - i accept your point of view; my own is that Morison has played internationals, has 2 years more experience overall and is likely to cope with the step up better to the PL better than Graham who may need some time to adjust; he may be a better bet long term; but I dont think we have time or the money on our side to wait and find out

I would have been happy with Danny Graham - but dont seem him as that much better than Morison to worry about not having him

We have options up front - and that is exactly what we need.

Now for the defence...[/quote]The 2nd really good post from you in the space of a couple of weeks Zipper... [Y]As you say, it is not simply about who is the better player out of Graham and Morison, but how either of them could be viewed as fitting in to the team/squad that Lambert has already built here.  For what it''s worth, I couldn''t think of a better potential target than Morison for Lambert to bring in oncve the deal for Vaughan had been signed.We now have exciting options upfront with 5 strikers (Morison, Holt, Jackson, Vaughan and Martin) all having the potential to contribute towards our success at this level.  I don''t think we have ever had that number of strikers, with the potential to compete at the level we are playing at in our squad.  The best days were possibly when we had three, with the likes of Sutton, Robins and Ekoku and how many of people would''ve said that they were going to have the impact that they went on to have at the club when they initially signed for us, or in Sutton''s case broke in to the first team as a centre half?We now have two strikers with decent pace (Jackson & Vaughan), two big physical strikers who can play a bit too in Holt and Morison and then the skill and ability of Chris Martin (an exciting youth product of the club who is still young and not finished here either).  As long as we strengthen the midfield, then I am sure that we have enough ability upfront to cause most teams problems next season.If Liverpool are not going to use him then we may possibly even add the likes of Pacheco on loan to what we have if required.  I think that we are STREETS ahead of the two other promoted sides in the strikers department at this stage though.  Swansea and QPR are struggling to have one striker of a similar kind of quality to our FIVE and at the moment both of those clubs have no quality strikers on a permanent deal.  I know whose shoes I would rather be in...I am genuinely excited about what we have upfront... now for a little bit of work on the midfield and defence in my book!

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[quote user="Mister Chops"][quote user="John"][quote user="Mister Chops"][quote user="John"]Whilst i understand how pre-judgment can often be haphazardly pre-judged on here[/quote]Sorry, you''ve lost me there.[/quote]My view on the matter Chops is that people on here are too frequently attacked for showing dissent over a player yet to don the yellow and green kit at Carrow Road.The history books don''t possess facts of the future; but they do possess valuable facts of the past.[/quote]Got it, thanks.  Though an analysis of Grant Holt at Championship level before last season would have been equally damning.  For as long as we have this management team getting the best out of the players they want to bring in, I trust their judgement even if on paper it may look questionable - perhaps Morison can lead the line & hold it up better than Graham, for example, playing more of an all round team role.[/quote]Maybe where I can agree with John in this thread, is on the reaction of the majority of our fans to events that happen at the club and I wholeheartedly respect his right to voice his opinion on his concerns over the Morison signing.  But as Simeon proved the majority wrong last season, I think that Morison will prove any doubters that he has wrong this coming season.I see Morison really challenging to start upfront as the season progresses, in place of Holt in the majority of games, sometimes partnered with Holt (against physical teams - the likes of Stoke for the first hour plus maybe), but more often partnered with either Jackson or Vaughan.  I may be wrong, but if Lambert & Co can get the best out of Morison, I think he has the attributes and potential to lead the line better than Holty does.  I know this will be seen as high treason by many, but hope that if Lambert chooses to leave Holty on the bench ever during the coming season, that our fans don''t instantly start to criticise his decision, as they did earlier this season just gone when Jackosn was viewed as a no hoper and a far inferior player to Chris Martin.So while I don''t agree with John''s analysis of Morison, who I rate highly, I understand what he is getting at with regards to having the right to question things.  I agree that the moment the fans stop questioning things that the club starts resting on it''s laurels and we all know where that leads don''t we???  So thumbs up to John for expressing his opinion!  [Y]

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[quote user="Sir Humphrey Appleby"]I live in Kent at the moment and a couple of my friends have season tickets at the Gills, their view is that he is a good player - too good for them is the standard quote - but not as good as Simeon was. They have been very complimentary of him but they do say that he lacks a first touch (we saw that when he played) and he has a tendency to miss the odd sitter. I''m not doing him down and would love to see him come good, but those who watched him last year did not consider of the quality that would go on and make a name for himself at the top level, the consensus was that he could be a good Championship striker but needed another full year to iron out some more of the rough edges.In light of the limited chances we are likely to get next year we cannot give him the time and patience he would need to develop, he only has one year on his contract so if we loan him out that would probably be the last we saw of him so I think we might be better off taking whatever money we can for him and wishing him well.[/quote]Why not extend his contract? He''s not costing much, he''s unlikely to get much more by moving, but if he has a good season for a Champ. club his value would rocket & he & the club would benefit. It''s not as if we need the £100k or whatever he''d fetch now. Very little downside risk for anyone.

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[quote user="ron obvious"][quote user="Sir Humphrey Appleby"]I live in Kent at the moment and a couple of my friends have season tickets at the Gills, their view is that he is a good player - too good for them is the standard quote - but not as good as Simeon was. They have been very complimentary of him but they do say that he lacks a first touch (we saw that when he played) and he has a tendency to miss the odd sitter. I''m not doing him down and would love to see him come good, but those who watched him last year did not consider of the quality that would go on and make a name for himself at the top level, the consensus was that he could be a good Championship striker but needed another full year to iron out some more of the rough edges.In light of the limited chances we are likely to get next year we cannot give him the time and patience he would need to develop, he only has one year on his contract so if we loan him out that would probably be the last we saw of him so I think we might be better off taking whatever money we can for him and wishing him well.[/quote]Why not extend his contract? He''s not costing much, he''s unlikely to get much more by moving, but if he has a good season for a Champ. club his value would rocket & he & the club would benefit. It''s not as if we need the £100k or whatever he''d fetch now. Very little downside risk for anyone.[/quote]If he would accept it I would like to see that but I can''t see why he would resign when Lambert has made it clear that he doesn''t feature in his plans, the signing of two new strikers in the space of a week would have reinforced that.

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Everyone has their opinion - mine is that I''m perfectly happy with the way things are.

My biggest problem with the OP analysis is that it ignores the fact that us and Swansea will have different priorities on what positions we consider that we most need to fill, and perhaps with the players we need to fill them: for instance, we''re chasing Snodgrass at £3.5m+ but perhaps Swansea consider that they have that position covered with Sinclair.

As we scored more than anyone in the Champs last season playing ''proper'' football, perhaps we''ve prioritised differently and considered spending so much in a position where we''re better covered to be unnecessary - particularly on a player who has been playing hoofball on a ploughed field in Watford...who knows if he''d fit in?

The point is that with any signing, there''s dozens of things to take into consideration and all are a gamble to a lesser or greater extent. I don''t believe Lambert is immune from making mistakes, but I certainly don''t consider this to be one. As things stand we''ve got 2 decent players in for the same (starting) price that Graham is costing, which is good business all round.

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[quote user="Sir Humphrey Appleby"][quote user="ron obvious"][quote user="Sir Humphrey Appleby"]I live in Kent at the moment and a couple of my friends have season tickets at the Gills, their view is that he is a good player - too good for them is the standard quote - but not as good as Simeon was. They have been very complimentary of him but they do say that he lacks a first touch (we saw that when he played) and he has a tendency to miss the odd sitter. I''m not doing him down and would love to see him come good, but those who watched him last year did not consider of the quality that would go on and make a name for himself at the top level, the consensus was that he could be a good Championship striker but needed another full year to iron out some more of the rough edges.In light of the limited chances we are likely to get next year we cannot give him the time and patience he would need to develop, he only has one year on his contract so if we loan him out that would probably be the last we saw of him so I think we might be better off taking whatever money we can for him and wishing him well.[/quote]Why not extend his contract? He''s not costing much, he''s unlikely to get much more by moving, but if he has a good season for a Champ. club his value would rocket & he & the club would benefit. It''s not as if we need the £100k or whatever he''d fetch now. Very little downside risk for anyone.[/quote]If he would accept it I would like to see that but I can''t see why he would resign when Lambert has made it clear that he doesn''t feature in his plans, the signing of two new strikers in the space of a week would have reinforced that.[/quote]I''m not sure it''s quite so crystal clear. He might say something like " look you''ve got potential, but I canna play you in the Premiership just now. How about we see how you get on at (insert Champ. club) for a wee while? If you want away afterwards, we''ll no stand in your way - we know you''ll want to be settled. How does that sound?"As likely as the ''just get rid'' scenario, I would suggest.

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Fundamentally John''s analysis of Morison and Graham seems about right. Morison''s record isn''t strong enough to offer real confidence and the relative weight of championship goals over the past season clearly favours Graham. One chink of light, however, is Morison''s strong scoring record this past season against top Championship sides – Swansea, Cardiff, QPR and Leeds. Not sure if some of these were penalties but there is a hint here that Morison likes the big match occasion, which God knows we''ll have enough of next season.

The most important contribution of this post though is highlighting the absurdity of so many posters on this site, who believe ''in Lambert we trust'' is a suitable riposte to any considered opinion. I''d rather read the views of anyone prepared to make a strong argument, whether I agree with it or not, than just another poster with merely an echo to offer up.

On a final note, I''d also caution about the current move to embrace Jackson as an unequivocal success, based on a month or so of finally looking championship class after several months of appearing out of his league (about two divisions). Who''s to say the majority of the season doesn''t offer a better reflection of Jackson''s qualities that the final weeks? I hope not but sentiment will only extend into the current season as far as ensuring that close bonds and a strong team spirit prevail – any player who the manager thinks he can replace with someone better will be fair game to be moved on, even the likes of Jackson and Chrissy Martin if they can raise a combined million or so to support additional purchases.

The club seems serious about making a go of this season in the Premier League and with such an approach comes tough decision making.

Forget Cody by the way – that''s one half million quid downpayment we are certain to use during the summer.

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[quote user="ron obvious"][quote user="Sir Humphrey Appleby"][quote user="ron obvious"][quote user="Sir Humphrey Appleby"]I live in Kent at the moment and a couple of my friends have season tickets at the Gills, their view is that he is a good player - too good for them is the standard quote - but not as good as Simeon was. They have been very complimentary of him but they do say that he lacks a first touch (we saw that when he played) and he has a tendency to miss the odd sitter. I''m not doing him down and would love to see him come good, but those who watched him last year did not consider of the quality that would go on and make a name for himself at the top level, the consensus was that he could be a good Championship striker but needed another full year to iron out some more of the rough edges.In light of the limited chances we are likely to get next year we cannot give him the time and patience he would need to develop, he only has one year on his contract so if we loan him out that would probably be the last we saw of him so I think we might be better off taking whatever money we can for him and wishing him well.[/quote]Why not extend his contract? He''s not costing much, he''s unlikely to get much more by moving, but if he has a good season for a Champ. club his value would rocket & he & the club would benefit. It''s not as if we need the £100k or whatever he''d fetch now. Very little downside risk for anyone.[/quote]If he would accept it I would like to see that but I can''t see why he would resign when Lambert has made it clear that he doesn''t feature in his plans, the signing of two new strikers in the space of a week would have reinforced that.[/quote]I''m not sure it''s quite so crystal clear. He might say something like " look you''ve got potential, but I canna play you in the Premiership just now. How about we see how you get on at (insert Champ. club) for a wee while? If you want away afterwards, we''ll no stand in your way - we know you''ll want to be settled. How does that sound?"As likely as the ''just get rid'' scenario, I would suggest.[/quote]Fingers crossed, I think he could be good and I met him in the bar after the Dartford game a couple of years ago, nice guy who you hoped does well for himself...somehow I couldn''t imagine reading about him in the papers having done a Rooney.I would say though that his stock is pretty high at the moment, I would imagine the top League One / middling Championship teams would take a punt on him, he could sign a reasonable 3 / 4 year deal or take a risk and go out on loan again...he has a young family and has had a ''proper job'' so if it were me - without my yellow and green bins on - I would probably accept the stability that still provides the chance to improve and move for more money in the future if it goes well.I do hope he stays and is given a chance though...

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[quote user="The 12th Devine"]Fundamentally John''s analysis of Morison and Graham seems about right. Morison''s record isn''t strong enough to offer real confidence and the relative weight of championship goals over the past season clearly favours Graham. One chink of light, however, is Morison''s strong scoring record this past season against top Championship sides – Swansea, Cardiff, QPR and Leeds. Not sure if some of these were penalties but there is a hint here that Morison likes the big match occasion, which God knows we''ll have enough of next season.

The most important contribution of this post though is highlighting the absurdity of so many posters on this site, who believe ''in Lambert we trust'' is a suitable riposte to any considered opinion. I''d rather read the views of anyone prepared to make a strong argument, whether I agree with it or not, than just another poster with merely an echo to offer up.

On a final note, I''d also caution about the current move to embrace Jackson as an unequivocal success, based on a month or so of finally looking championship class after several months of appearing out of his league (about two divisions). Who''s to say the majority of the season doesn''t offer a better reflection of Jackson''s qualities that the final weeks? I hope not but sentiment will only extend into the current season as far as ensuring that close bonds and a strong team spirit prevail – any player who the manager thinks he can replace with someone better will be fair game to be moved on, even the likes of Jackson and Chrissy Martin if they can raise a combined million or so to support additional purchases.

The club seems serious about making a go of this season in the Premier League and with such an approach comes tough decision making.

Forget Cody by the way – that''s one half million quid downpayment we are certain to use during the summer.[/quote]Sorry, but what an absolute load of rubbish.Just as I told you all along when you were knocking him last season - Jackson has class and he has it in spades!Jimmy Floyd Hasselbaink was drooling over him when on Sky TV at the Pompey game and he should know what it takes to be successful as a striker at the top level!  Jackson always had a good scoring record for us for the amount of minutes that he spent on the pitch and come the end of the season he was the most prolific striker in the Championship by some way (ps - a prolific striker is judged by number of goals scored for the amount of time he has spent on the pitch - not just the number of goals he scores in a season).As for Chris Martin, he still has lots to offer us and he will play a part this coming season and beyond.  The treatment of Chris by some of our fans is unbelievable.  He is a talented young player who always gives his all and is more than capable of coming good for us again and being as useful to the squad as most of our other main strikers in my opinion.  Talk of selling him for a few hundred thousand is criminal!

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[quote user="Smudger"][quote user="Mister Chops"][quote user="John"][quote user="Mister Chops"][quote user="John"]Whilst i understand how pre-judgment can often be haphazardly pre-judged on here[/quote]Sorry, you''ve lost me there.[/quote]My view on the matter Chops is that people on here are too frequently attacked for showing dissent over a player yet to don the yellow and green kit at Carrow Road.The history books don''t possess facts of the future; but they do possess valuable facts of the past.[/quote]Got it, thanks.  Though an analysis of Grant Holt at Championship level before last season would have been equally damning.  For as long as we have this management team getting the best out of the players they want to bring in, I trust their judgement even if on paper it may look questionable - perhaps Morison can lead the line & hold it up better than Graham, for example, playing more of an all round team role.[/quote]Maybe where I can agree with John in this thread, is on the reaction of the majority of our fans to events that happen at the club and I wholeheartedly respect his right to voice his opinion on his concerns over the Morison signing.  But as Simeon proved the majority wrong last season, I think that Morison will prove any doubters that he has wrong this coming season.I see Morison really challenging to start upfront as the season progresses, in place of Holt in the majority of games, sometimes partnered with Holt (against physical teams - the likes of Stoke for the first hour plus maybe), but more often partnered with either Jackson or Vaughan.  I may be wrong, but if Lambert & Co can get the best out of Morison, I think he has the attributes and potential to lead the line better than Holty does.  I know this will be seen as high treason by many, but hope that if Lambert chooses to leave Holty on the bench ever during the coming season, that our fans don''t instantly start to criticise his decision, as they did earlier this season just gone when Jackosn was viewed as a no hoper and a far inferior player to Chris Martin.So while I don''t agree with John''s analysis of Morison, who I rate highly, I understand what he is getting at with regards to having the right to question things.  I agree that the moment the fans stop questioning things that the club starts resting on it''s laurels and we all know where that leads don''t we???  So thumbs up to John for expressing his opinion!  [Y][/quote]A much appreciated and emancipating comment Smudger, and to the credit of the posters on here (with the exception of the first comment), i clearly vastly underestimated them in my OP. The ''blind faith'' argument seems to have been kept to a minimum, and we''ve been able to hold a critical and informed discussion.At its worst on this board, there seems to be an ad populum that when success comes by we''re free from need of inquiry. An unfortunate and divisive maxim best ignored in a place so liberal in discussion as a forum, especially when probing and contemplation is its primary purpose. It may rightfully lull the overreaction of some posters (as indicated by Cantiaci Canary indicated), but far more importantly, it is suffocating in a domain that breathes opinion and free thinking.As for your ''treason'', it is of course nothing of the sort. I just don''t agree with it. [;)]

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[quote user="John"]Considering Morison is rarely

seen as anything more than a poacher, and Graham is seen as a striker

that more regularly participates in the build-up play, i see this as a

particular issue.[/quote]Sorry, John. I stopped reading here. First of all, when has he been considered a goal poacher? The only game I saw him in was Millwall at home in our League One season, and he won so many headers and was involved in Millwall''s build up play constantly. It sounds to me as if, despite your extensive pre-amble, you''ve pre-judged that Graham is the better player already.

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4 pages in and smudger is the first and only person to bring Chris Martin into the debate. Martin wouldn''t fetch 2.1m now but that''s only because he had a quiet season due to injury. I''m especially excited about seeing him in the Prem as much as any of our players, inc Morison who it should not be assumed is immediately ahead of Chris. If you ask me, imo he has the most complete all round game of all our strikers, taking in the fact he''s still v young and developing.

Anyway, the point that we now have real variety up front - pace, power, guile, skill is what''s important.

Now for Adam Llalana. We MUST have creative back up for Wes and he is all that''s out there that fits the bill. We should bust the bank for him.

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John - Millwall fans judgement like any fans has to be taken with a large pinch of salt.....after all I recently watched a programme where Teddy Sheringham was berated by the Lion''s fans constantly. Well if Morrison can come anywhere near this player well I for one will be very happy.

I also think that alot of stuff within football never gets aired in public and PL is a shrewd character so knows what he is looking for within a person too. Remember he and Malky are very good friends too...I am sure stuff would have been discussed between them.

OTBC

 

 

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[quote user="TheGoogler"][quote user="John"]Considering Morison is rarely

seen as anything more than a poacher, and Graham is seen as a striker

that more regularly participates in the build-up play, i see this as a

particular issue.[/quote]Sorry, John. I stopped reading here. First of all, when has he been considered a goal poacher? The only game I saw him in was Millwall at home in our League One season, and he won so many headers and was involved in Millwall''s build up play constantly. It sounds to me as if, despite your extensive pre-amble, you''ve pre-judged that Graham is the better player already.[/quote]That''s how i''ve often heard him described by Millwall fans, in that he seems more well known for his pace and finishing than he is in supporting the build-up play; so much so that none were willing to give him credit for having done anything other than that. Admittedly all i''ve got to go by is the occasional commentry, highlights, and statistics when concerning Morison, but i myself have never heard or seen anything, from memory, to suggest their (being the Millwall fans) interpretation is wrong.Perhaps i have to some extent pre-judged, but i don''t think that basis is completely void of reason either.

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