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When Saturday Comes

You can't sign players in June!

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[quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="Smudger"][quote user="PurpleCanary"]

[quote user="Smudger"]

Ashton = January signing who we shouldve signed in the previous June or July at the latest instead of going for the cheap option in the Doc.[/quote]

 

Doherty was not signed as a striker. He was signed as a central defender when Linvoy Primus, close to the start of the season, turned us down.

 

[/quote]Oh then why did he play upfront for us to begin with then, or were we really that desperate for a striker after off-loading Iwan too early then?  Say what you like, but were we not told that he was a defender/striker and played most of his games that he did get a chance in early that season upfront for us, while Charlton and Flemming played centre half?[/quote]

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It may have been in the back of Worthington''s mind that Doherty could at a pinch play up, and he did for a few games early on. But I repeat, he was signed as a central defender when the Primus move fell through just before the start of the season. And we weren''t as short up front as we were at the back.

 

In attack in terms of goalscorers we had McKenzie, Svensson and Jonson, plus Huckerby. In central defence we only had Fleming and Charlton, and neither of them in size an adequate replacement for Mackay. Particularly not Charlton, who was more of a utility defender. We wanted a dominant centre-half and when we couldn''t get Primus we went for Doherty.

 

It is nonsense to pretend we got Doherty instead of Ashton.

 

 

Doherty was not

[/quote]Would that have been the wonderful Swedish winger, who socred a grand total of NO GOALS for us, and set up about just as many too???

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[quote user="Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man"][quote user="Smudger"][quote user="Smudger"][quote user="PurpleCanary"]

[quote user="Smudger"]

Ashton = January signing who we shouldve signed in the previous June or July at the latest instead of going for the cheap option in the Doc.[/quote]

 

Doherty was not signed as a striker. He was signed as a central defender when Linvoy Primus, close to the start of the season, turned us down.

 

[/quote]Oh then why did he play upfront for us to begin with then, or were we really that desperate for a striker after off-loading Iwan too early then?  Say what you like, but were we not told that he was a defender/striker and played most of his games that he did get a chance in early that season upfront for us, while Charlton and Flemming played centre half?[/quote]PS - The Doc never really got a run at centre half for us until we were relegated as I remember (he then got turned inside out during the first few games of that season).  During the end of our stay in the Premiership, Helveg was playing centre half with Flemming.[/quote]He was brought in as a centre back I believe, and if I remember rightly, Worthington said that he was only using him as an emergency striker for whatever reason.Also, during the end of our Premier League campaign, it was Shackell who partnered Fleming. Helveg was right back.[/quote]I think that you were right with Shackellplaying centre half at the end of the season, but didn''t Helveg play in front of the back four or something then?  I don''t recall him playing right back for us after having been exposed early season for lack of pace in his natural position.  Was it not Charlton who finished the season at right back?Can''t honestly recall... hazy memories of a time best forgotten!

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[quote user="Smudger"][quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="Smudger"][quote user="PurpleCanary"]

[quote user="Smudger"]


Ashton = January signing who we shouldve signed in the previous June or July at the latest instead of going for the cheap option in the Doc.

[/quote]

 

Doherty was not signed as a striker. He was signed as a central defender when Linvoy Primus, close to the start of the season, turned us down.

 

[/quote]

Oh then why did he play upfront for us to begin with then, or were we really that desperate for a striker after off-loading Iwan too early then?  Say what you like, but were we not told that he was a defender/striker and played most of his games that he did get a chance in early that season upfront for us, while Charlton and Flemming played centre half?
[/quote]

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It may have been in the back of Worthington''s mind that Doherty could at a pinch play up, and he did for a few games early on. But I repeat, he was signed as a central defender when the Primus move fell through just before the start of the season. And we weren''t as short up front as we were at the back.

 

In attack in terms of goalscorers we had McKenzie, Svensson and Jonson, plus Huckerby. In central defence we only had Fleming and Charlton, and neither of them in size an adequate replacement for Mackay. Particularly not Charlton, who was more of a utility defender. We wanted a dominant centre-half and when we couldn''t get Primus we went for Doherty.

 

It is nonsense to pretend we got Doherty instead of Ashton.

 

 

 

[/quote]

Would that have been the wonderful Swedish winger, who socred a grand total of NO GOALS for us, and set up about just as many too???
[/quote]

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Smudger, I treasure your ability to ignore logic when it suits you. And to use a lack of logic to try to cloud the issue. And it probably works with some people...


Jonson was essentially a striker (playing off a target man) or a wing-striker in a 4-3-3. It wasn''t his fault Worthington tried to turn him into a workhorse midfielder.

 

Of course Jonson, as a result, didn''t come off. But that is not the point. It is irrelevant to the issue here.You said we bought Doherty as a striker. As Wacky Waving has confirmed, that is nonsense. Absolute nonsense. We had strikers. We lacked centre-backs. Doherty was bought as a centre-back. 

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What a crazy thread this has become. Despite the best efforts of some to carry on with the old Worthy Out mantra of blaming him for everything he never was one of the twats who said you can''t sign mayers in June or whatever. He said the opposite. I have quoted him on this thread. And this is not one for the "Beatify the Blessed Worthy Committee" Purple, it''s just a case of calling it as it is. Or was.

 

Bruce Rioch did a brilliant job following Walker2 of whom the same cannot be said. He helped move the club into the 21st century introducing sports scientists and fitness coaches. medical checks and footballers dietry needs. Something Walker didn''t want anything to do with.

 

Doc was signed as a central defender.. It seems Worthy had been banking on signing Linvoy Primus. I believe Manderic stepped in at the last moment offering Primus a better contract. Something he''d prevously said he would never do. I would have loved Primus to have been here. But it seems Worthy didn''t have a plan B or if he did the plan B went elsewhere while he was negotiating for Primus. Anyway, we ended up with Doc very late after Fleming and Charlton had claimed the central defence for themselves. Why didn''t the Doc take either place? Because Flem and Charlton were playing well! It''s a myth to say they weren''t. We only lost 4 of the first 12 games. But we didn''t win any. We conceded 19 but only scored 11. 4 were conceded to Arsenal and 3 Liverpool. The problem was our inability to score goals and turn some of those draws into wins. We could easily have picked up six more points in the first dozen games. I remember going to WBA and we absolutely anhialated them 0-0!

 

But the strangest comment of all is Smudger''s "Hazy recollections of a time best forgotten"! Really?? Norwich fans had 3 great seasons between 2002 and 2005. I have got so many great memories of those years. For a whole generation they were the only success Norwich ever had. A generation born in the mid-eighties absolutely adored those years and will never forget them.

 

 

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Huh? So we had loads of strikers and few defenders, but bought a centre-half and played him up front?! Worthington has already stated that he was not allowed to sign Ashton at the start of that season, so the evidence points to Doherty being the best he could afford to play up front. God, how embarrassing that seems now..... All long gone thankfully, no thanks to some of the numpties on here.....

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[quote user="nutty nigel"]

 

Doc was signed as a central defender.. It seems Worthy had been banking on signing Linvoy Primus. I believe Manderic stepped in at the last moment offering Primus a better contract. Something he''d prevously said he would never do. I would have loved Primus to have been here. But it seems Worthy didn''t have a plan B or if he did the plan B went elsewhere while he was negotiating for Primus. Anyway, we ended up with Doc very late after Fleming and Charlton had claimed the central defence for themselves.

 

[/quote]

 

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Yes, nutty. I have seen all sorts of bizarre arguments about Ashton et al. And I have let most of them pass. But smudger''s idea that we signed Doherty as a centre-forward  and as such instead of Ashton is the most creative (ie, the most barking mad) yet. Sooner or later even the purblind smudger is going to realise no-one is backing him up on this.

 

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I remember it as Doherty being bought as a defender who could also play up-front.  He didn''t break into the team at first, and finished (and even scored, I believe) in the draw at St James'' Park shortly after we signed him.

 

I believe he did get some games in central defence mid-season, including a disastrous turn-out against Chelsea live on Sky, giving the ball away cheaper than a eunuch.

 

Helveg ended the season playing in front of the back four, with Eddy finally back in his rightful place, and Flem and Shacks at CB. Can''t remember whether Drury was injured at the time and Charlton played in his stead?

 

The Ashton thing was well-documented and was the board''s biggest failing at the time (with more to follow).

 

I remember well the comments from Doomy about not being able to sign players in June because everyone was on holiday.  Lambert and McNally must be considered very rude by some of these players and clubs for daring to interrupt their time off... [:)]

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We needed a defender and a striker. So worthy signed Doherty because he could play in both positions.

Hence, why he played up front on many occasions. Is it really any wonder we got relegated that season?

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As an aside ... my wife who is a die hard Spurs fan thought it was hilarious when Doherty signed for us as I used to take the mick out of her whenever he played up front in an emergency for Spurs!!!!....

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[quote user="Jim Kent"]We needed a defender and a striker. So worthy signed Doherty because he could play in both positions. Hence, why he played up front on many occasions. Is it really any wonder we got relegated that season?[/quote]

 

Worthy signed Doc as a defender who could play up front. This is spot on. hecame on as sub at Old Trafford and some people thought he could be our signing of the summer! It was Doc''s shaot that was blocked for McVeigh to score our goal and he went on to score the equaliser at Newcastle during the following week. Those with a memory that goes back 7 years and went to those early games will remember we played well. We could easily have got something from that game at OT. Bentley''s shot thundering against the crossbar with Tim Howard beaten all ends up, then a wonder goal from Alan Smith giving United the lead. Great memories! The whole season seems to have been re-written since we were relegated!

 

The irony here Jim is that Primus and Ashton were quite probably Worthy''s first two targets that summer but he ended up getting the Doc after the season began!

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http://www.footballfancast.com/2011/06/football-blogs/why-do-football-clubs-drag-their-feet-in-the-transfer-window

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[quote user="Smudger"]


Ashton = January signing who we shouldve signed in the previous June or July at the latest.

[/quote]

 

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The anti-board argument here is that the money was available for Ashton in the summer but the directors wilfully refused to provide it. There is no hard evidence to back that up, of course. Worthington''s version, or at least one recently told to Mick Dennis, is that the board wanted to hold money back for January. Even if true that doesn''t prove that enough money was there for Ashton in the summer.

 

And a recent Lambert quote sheds an interesting light on whether you should in any case spend everything you have straight away. And bear in mind that Lambert plainly has a much greater sum available (because of guaranteed PL income) than the board could possibly give Worthington.

 

Lambert has targeted seven summer signings, but is mindful of the need to have financial reserves in place for the January transfer window. "There has to be that contingency plan that you can’t throw all your eggs in one basket and come January you can’t do anything, so there is that in the back of my mind,” he said. “But I also know there is a balancing act of January time. We bought in James Vaughan and now Steve, two lads I think will do great for this football club, but I also know I have to bring in lads to help the others ones, which I will try and do. But I also know that January is a time when you might need a bit more help.”

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 that whole premiership season was proof that the board, Doncaster and Worthy really didnt know what they were doing....Thank god for Lambert and McNally this time round....

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