judderman 0 Posted June 1, 2011 [quote user="Joanna Grey"][quote user="Jin - York Canary"] I like that you only picked one bit of my post and not the real main point.......I know the difference and I don''t agree with all this political correctness gone mad stuff that is stopping human beings from being able to hold a normal conversation without fear of disapproval or worse..[/quote]I picked out that part of your post because that is what I had an issue with. Despite what you have said above you decided to pull me up for using the word "lynched" in a conversation about race. You adopted a superior attitude with your "advice" about using that word, which I found quite insulting.Tell me, Mr P.C. if an African tells you that you look "Flaming tired" will you advise him that it''s not a good phrase to use? Or if you''re flipping out at work and your Afghanistan colleague tells you not to "lose your head" will you report him to the Race Police?[/quote]I fully agree with you, that would be ridiculous.However:[quote user="ODonoughoe"]@David_Tree He''s a f___ing useless chav. Did f___ all at Palace last season and he''s another f__ing ni__er on the team we don''t need.[/quote]If those same examples you used called me "F****** white scum" I might take issue with itUnderstand, we''re not talking about being offended with terms like the ones you''re using as an example, we''re talking about terms which imply degenerate another person because of their race. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Evil Monkey 52 Posted June 1, 2011 Most ''celebrity'' fans on Twitter seemed keen to simply ignore him, doesn''t sound like many of his peers have that much respect for him. His main ''celebrity'' supporter through all of this seems to be weathergirl Wendy Hurrell. If this is truly the level he has sunk to, then he needs to take a long look at his career. He mentioned many times throughout yesterday that he would respond to all fans, but only seems to want to respond to those giving him abuse, and responding in kind. Twice yesterday I made fairly reasonable comments asking for an apology and stating that he should have joined with the Norwich fans in voicing his disapproval, not against us. Not a sniff of a response from him, while he continues to make derogatory comments to others. He has no interest in entering into reasonable debate... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lurd 0 Posted June 1, 2011 I saw the message first hand and at no point did he back down or claim his account was hacked, etc. The guy was standing by his actions which would almost be admirable had he not been a digusting racist idiot. Using the term n*gger is simply not defendable. If you use it, you ARE racist. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Splendid Rush 0 Posted June 1, 2011 https://www.bbc.co.uk/complaints/forms/Lodge your complains with the BBC. I have. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Saturday Boy 0 Posted June 1, 2011 [quote user="In Dubious Battle "][quote user="The Saturday Boy"]I can''t believe some of you are defending the guy - there is a huge difference in making a racist remak aimed at somebody publicly be it on twitter or on the street, and accidently offending somebody by being ''un pc'' (whatever that means) or having a debate on the rights and wrongs of immigration. The ''you can''t say anything nowadays'' defence doesn''t wash in this case.[/quote]I am not defending him personally, he is clearly pond life, but I do defend his right to state his opinion, however odious it happens to be. There are plenty of city fans who utter the odd racist/sexist/homophobic remark, in fact many of them post on this message board, just check out the ''Its not just football'' section. Are we going to ban them all too? A lifetime ban? The bloke is 22, he is still young, he has only been an adult 4 years and at that age people make mistakes. Not making excuses for him, just think that a little perspective is needed here. [/quote]I think there is perspective needed here... he called James Vaughan a f''ing useless n word. How would you feel if you worked in a pub/shop/any other job working with the public and a customer insulted you in a public arena? I think you would have every right banning them from using your service. The club had to act, and hopefully this will send out the message that racism is not tolerated at our fine club. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dj 0 Posted June 1, 2011 I was at the Gillingham game 2 years ago when Curtis Weston won a penalty. The 2 idiots behind me kept shouting n*gger and then aimed their abuse at the penalty taker who was Simeon Jackson. I don''t want anyone associated with the club to behave in this manner whether by written or spoken word. The club have made a stand and I for one whole heartedly support them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheGoogler 598 Posted June 1, 2011 Excuse me while I copy and paste some of Mark Bright''s tweets so I can use them in a complaint I''m writing..."@80sTrebor stop swearing, let''s be honest, Norwich is so irrelevant the government never built a motor way to the place. #Endoftheworld""@TheGraspGroup those two don''t go together... Norwich strip and prem league badge, be a collectors item this time next year..keep hold of it" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Row D Seat 7 0 Posted June 1, 2011 Did Luke come on here and post last night? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Joanna Grey 0 Posted June 1, 2011 [quote user="judderman"][quote user="Joanna Grey"][quote user="Jin - York Canary"] I like that you only picked one bit of my post and not the real main point.......I know the difference and I don''t agree with all this political correctness gone mad stuff that is stopping human beings from being able to hold a normal conversation without fear of disapproval or worse..[/quote]I picked out that part of your post because that is what I had an issue with. Despite what you have said above you decided to pull me up for using the word "lynched" in a conversation about race. You adopted a superior attitude with your "advice" about using that word, which I found quite insulting.Tell me, Mr P.C. if an African tells you that you look "Flaming tired" will you advise him that it''s not a good phrase to use? Or if you''re flipping out at work and your Afghanistan colleague tells you not to "lose your head" will you report him to the Race Police?[/quote]I fully agree with you, that would be ridiculous.However:[quote user="ODonoughoe"]@David_Tree He''s a f___ing useless chav. Did f___ all at Palace last season and he''s another f__ing ni__er on the team we don''t need.[/quote]If those same examples you used called me "F****** white scum" I might take issue with itUnderstand, we''re not talking about being offended with terms like the ones you''re using as an example, we''re talking about terms which imply degenerate another person because of their race.[/quote] OK, you half get my point. I am not defending LOD over his insults, that was bad and I am not defending him, have no problem with the punsihment from the Club but still think that Mark Bright acted like a child.My "only" issue is with being told that I should not use the word "lynching" in a discussion about race. Simple as that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Citizen Journalist Foghorn 0 Posted June 1, 2011 RE: Racist FanGreat news, ban all the racist scum. RE: Mark Bright believing Norwich will get relegatedThe guy is a pundit and is entitled to his opinion. If you are gonna be offended by anyone who thinks Norwich will get relegated next season. Expect to get offended by one hell of a lot of people! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bethnal Yellow and Green 2,411 Posted June 1, 2011 [quote user="Splendid Rush"]https://www.bbc.co.uk/complaints/forms/ Lodge your complains with the BBC. I have.[/quote]It doesn''t really concern the BBC, Mark Bright will be employed freelance, so anything he says when not actually on the BBC won''t bother them. Also he is sayingt the same tired old things about Norwich, it''s not like he is actually making any hugely offensive comments. He is saying we don''t have a motorway and we will be relegated next season! It''s hardly over the line. If the BBC defends one its TV shows calling all Mexican lazy I hardly think they will kick off about Mark Bright saying Norwich doesn''t have good transport connections. Let him rant away, he can only rant at people who pay any attention to him. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Evil Monkey 52 Posted June 1, 2011 Good grief, what rock did CJF just crawl out from under? I don''t think the issue is with Bright suggesting Norwich would get relegated, but with the more offensive insinuation that we should do so because of one racist idiot, and that all Norwich fans are of a similar ilk. Regarding complaints to the BBC, it should be noted that his Twitter account is his own and is in no way connected to that organisation, and the views expressed on there are his own. They are unlikely to take action. A simple apology for his behaviour would be the best way to end this, and maybe someone from the club should invite him to get involved in any Kick Racism out of Football programmes so that he can see first-hand the good work NCFC are doing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PurpleCanary 6,259 Posted June 1, 2011 [quote user="norfolkbroadslim"]Anybody who believes that there is or ever was freedom of speech is a naive moron. [/quote] --- A naive moron writes: Of course we don''t have an absolute freedom. There hasn''t been a civilised society that has, but actually in my lifetime we have become markedly more free. The limits used to be twofold - economic (ie, only the rich could afford to publish their views) and legal - what as a people we decided democratically should and should not be allowed. The legal constraints (which can be changed democratically) are still there but the economic bar has gone. Anyone can set up a website. If a techno-idiot like me can then anyone can. And pretty much anyone can afford $5 a month to keep it going. And there - if you care enough to make the effort - you have something very close to freedom of speech. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
blahblahblah 2 Posted June 1, 2011 I think the thing that people took most offence to was because he had been offended by one Norwich fan, he should block all of them - including Stephen Fry, Jake Humphries, and Dion Dublin. The implication here is "they (Norwich fans) are all the same". I tried to point this out to Mr Bright yesterday, but surprisingly he didn''t reply. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Citizen Journalist Foghorn 0 Posted June 1, 2011 [quote user="Evil Monkey"]Good grief, what rock did CJF just crawl out from under? [/quote]A very large and dark one![quote user="Evil Monkey"]I don''t think the issue is with Bright suggesting Norwich would get relegated, but with the more offensive insinuation that we should do so because of one racist idiot, and that all Norwich fans are of a similar ilk.[/quote]What exactly are Mark Bright''s offending remarks, I quickly looked at his twitter but did not see anything remarkable. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Citizen Journalist Foghorn 0 Posted June 1, 2011 [quote user="blahblahblah"]I think the thing that people took most offence to was because he had been offended by one Norwich fan, he should block all of them - including Stephen Fry, Jake Humphries, and Dion Dublin. The implication here is "they (Norwich fans) are all the same". I tried to point this out to Mr Bright yesterday, but surprisingly he didn''t reply.[/quote]He can block who he likes... Makes him look like a fool, but nothing to get worked up over imo. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Fish Seller 0 Posted June 1, 2011 [quote user="PurpleCanary"] Anyone can set up a website. If a techno-idiot like me can then anyone can. And pretty much anyone can afford $5 a month to keep it going. And there - if you care enough to make the effort - you have something very close to freedom of speech. [/quote]As the recent south Tyneside councillor, Mark Bright and superinjunction fiascos have highlighted this is far from correct, if anything there are even more laws and regulations surrounding what is published on a website than in the written press. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Row D Seat 7 0 Posted June 1, 2011 Just been confirmed on Twitter, from Norfolk police. Things go from bad to worse for the lad. He''ll learn a big lesson from this. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PurpleCanary 6,259 Posted June 1, 2011 [quote user="Buckethead"][quote user="PurpleCanary"] Anyone can set up a website. If a techno-idiot like me can then anyone can. And pretty much anyone can afford $5 a month to keep it going. And there - if you care enough to make the effort - you have something very close to freedom of speech. [/quote]As the recent south Tyneside councillor, Mark Bright and superinjunction fiascos have highlighted this is far from correct, if anything there are even more laws and regulations surrounding what is published on a website than in the written press.[/quote] -- Not true at all. What happened with the councillor was that he assumed that using the social media anonymously would protect him from the laws that apply to the traditional media because he thought his identity wouldn''t be discovered. He was wrong. The law isn''t different. He just thought he wouldn''t be caught. And the law isn''t different as far as super-injunctions go. They don''t apply more rigorously to the internet than to newspapers. As for regulations on websites, of course there are regulations that, for example, govern this one. Mainly to protect Archant from legal action. But if you find those too stifling then, as I said, you can start your own. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
. 0 Posted June 1, 2011 [quote user="norfolkbroadslim"]Anybody who believes that there is or ever was freedom of speech is a naive moron. We are but mere little robots in a Capitalist society, prisoners in a world where people do believe that they have a choice are in fact convinced they have freedom of speech, of thought, of actions; but in reality there is very little if any freedom.......... [/quote]Hear hear...The more this pathetically insecure society lectures me on how I should think and speak the more I rebel. The tail is wagging the dog in the UK these days and we are laughed at throughout the world for how we cave in at the slightest hint of individualism.Minority sensitivities my arse. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kellybrook 0 Posted June 1, 2011 I abhor racism.I am however, slightly concerned that the club has just jumped in and banned him this idiot for life.A UK council had to take twitter to court in California to get the details it required, yet the club thinks it can purely on the visible evidence. I say that''s not actually enough. If the racist moron had the brains (which I doubt) he would get a solicitor to write to the club and say "prove it was actually him that submitted the offensive tweets, or see you in court".Anyway, one racist moron banned is good, however, as I say, I am concerned at the precedent the club is setting oth in terms of the timescale and the presumption of guilt.If it had been a black lad who had spouted "too many white w*****s in NCFC" on twitter. Would the club have jumped in so fast? I think not. Would Mark Bright? No way. Would Archant have run a story with a photo? Never in a million years. There are potential double standards here.Finally, Mark Bright has shown himself to be equally bigoted, by tarring all NCFC fans with the same brush. I suspect he sees Norfolk as the "deep south" of the UK. He was also more than "joking" about the club and the county, indeed, when MP''s and others have made negative comments about Norfolk, we have had front page outrage from Archant. Not a peep from Archant about Brights behaviour though. So the racist moron gets slapped for life and a police investigation, while Bright does not even get questions asked by the local press.Smells a tiny bit like a witch hunt. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mr Wolf 0 Posted June 1, 2011 So have I. If enough people complain that he''s been offensive the BBC will have to do something and hopefully he won''t be reporting on any of our games next season. I''ve never liked the bloke at all and the way he has handled this has only served to reaffirm my belief that the guy is a complete tw*t. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
First Wizard 0 Posted June 1, 2011 [quote user="kellybrook"]I abhor racism.I am however, slightly concerned that the club has just jumped in and banned him this idiot for life.A UK council had to take twitter to court in California to get the details it required, yet the club thinks it can purely on the visible evidence. I say that''s not actually enough. If the racist moron had the brains (which I doubt) he would get a solicitor to write to the club and say "prove it was actually him that submitted the offensive tweets, or see you in court".Anyway, one racist moron banned is good, however, as I say, I am concerned at the precedent the club is setting oth in terms of the timescale and the presumption of guilt.If it had been a black lad who had spouted "too many white w*****s in NCFC" on twitter. Would the club have jumped in so fast? I think not. Would Mark Bright? No way. Would Archant have run a story with a photo? Never in a million years. There are potential double standards here.Finally, Mark Bright has shown himself to be equally bigoted, by tarring all NCFC fans with the same brush. I suspect he sees Norfolk as the "deep south" of the UK. He was also more than "joking" about the club and the county, indeed, when MP''s and others have made negative comments about Norfolk, we have had front page outrage from Archant. Not a peep from Archant about Brights behaviour though. So the racist moron gets slapped for life and a police investigation, while Bright does not even get questions asked by the local press.Smells a tiny bit like a witch hunt.[/quote] Top post, I agreed with everything, which is unusal. [Y] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bethnal Yellow and Green 2,411 Posted June 1, 2011 [quote user="kellybrook"]I abhor racism.I am however, slightly concerned that the club has just jumped in and banned him this idiot for life.A UK council had to take twitter to court in California to get the details it required, yet the club thinks it can purely on the visible evidence. I say that''s not actually enough. If the racist moron had the brains (which I doubt) he would get a solicitor to write to the club and say "prove it was actually him that submitted the offensive tweets, or see you in court".Anyway, one racist moron banned is good, however, as I say, I am concerned at the precedent the club is setting oth in terms of the timescale and the presumption of guilt.If it had been a black lad who had spouted "too many white w*****s in NCFC" on twitter. Would the club have jumped in so fast? I think not. Would Mark Bright? No way. Would Archant have run a story with a photo? Never in a million years. There are potential double standards here.Finally, Mark Bright has shown himself to be equally bigoted, by tarring all NCFC fans with the same brush. I suspect he sees Norfolk as the "deep south" of the UK. He was also more than "joking" about the club and the county, indeed, when MP''s and others have made negative comments about Norfolk, we have had front page outrage from Archant. Not a peep from Archant about Brights behaviour though. So the racist moron gets slapped for life and a police investigation, while Bright does not even get questions asked by the local press.Smells a tiny bit like a witch hunt.[/quote] The club can choose who it allows to come to games or not for any reason they like. Seeing as the ''fan'' in question isn''t a season ticket holder and hasn''t been for several years suggests that this isn''t a particulary massive deal for them. If he was a current season ticket holder it might have been different - the ban is nothing more than the club saying "we refuse to serve you". Saying someone is a "white w*****" is never going to have the same power behind it as someone cranking out the "n*****" bomb. The word is loaded with such feeling that no insult based on a white person''s race can carry the same effect. Especially within the football world where so much is being done to stop racism. Of course the punishment has come down due to the attention that was drawn to his comments, and in some respect he is a victim of circumstance, although the circumstance was him being a racist. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mr_Chimp 0 Posted June 1, 2011 If the racist moron had the brains (which I doubt) he would get a solicitor to write to the club and say "prove it was actually him that submitted the offensive tweets, or see you in court".How would this work, seriously? The Club has the right to refuse entry to Carrow Road on *any* grounds it chooses, from the trivial - say, trying to get in wearing an Ipswich kit - to the serious like this. Just like any other business can refuse service for any reason it wishes (aside from prejudice coming from the business itself), without having to justify it in a court.When the Club can justify it with it''s own customer charter, which expressly states that threatening, racist, abusive (etc.) behaviour will not be tolerated and will result in your ejection from the ground and a possible banning order, the decision becomes very easy. Lesson learnt for Mr. O''Donoghue - you can say whatever you like, but be prepared to accept responsibility for it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jacko 0 Posted June 1, 2011 Racism should not be tolerated under any circumstances. However the double standards from Bright in attacking Norwich are shocking. On his twitter profile he proudly has a Crystal Palace shirt with his name on as his profile picture. I remember in 1991 Bright left Crystal Palace because of racist comments made by the chairman Ron Noades. These comments can be found by following this link ( http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2003/jan/20/jimwhite ). Surely if he is being consistent he should harbour exactly the same animosity towards Crystal Palace as us. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hogesar 10,530 Posted June 1, 2011 [quote user="Bethnal Yellow and Green"][quote user="kellybrook"]I abhor racism.I am however, slightly concerned that the club has just jumped in and banned him this idiot for life.A UK council had to take twitter to court in California to get the details it required, yet the club thinks it can purely on the visible evidence. I say that''s not actually enough. If the racist moron had the brains (which I doubt) he would get a solicitor to write to the club and say "prove it was actually him that submitted the offensive tweets, or see you in court".Anyway, one racist moron banned is good, however, as I say, I am concerned at the precedent the club is setting oth in terms of the timescale and the presumption of guilt.If it had been a black lad who had spouted "too many white w*****s in NCFC" on twitter. Would the club have jumped in so fast? I think not. Would Mark Bright? No way. Would Archant have run a story with a photo? Never in a million years. There are potential double standards here.Finally, Mark Bright has shown himself to be equally bigoted, by tarring all NCFC fans with the same brush. I suspect he sees Norfolk as the "deep south" of the UK. He was also more than "joking" about the club and the county, indeed, when MP''s and others have made negative comments about Norfolk, we have had front page outrage from Archant. Not a peep from Archant about Brights behaviour though. So the racist moron gets slapped for life and a police investigation, while Bright does not even get questions asked by the local press.Smells a tiny bit like a witch hunt.[/quote] The club can choose who it allows to come to games or not for any reason they like. Seeing as the ''fan'' in question isn''t a season ticket holder and hasn''t been for several years suggests that this isn''t a particulary massive deal for them. If he was a current season ticket holder it might have been different - the ban is nothing more than the club saying "we refuse to serve you". Saying someone is a "white w*****" is never going to have the same power behind it as someone cranking out the "n*****" bomb. The word is loaded with such feeling that no insult based on a white person''s race can carry the same effect. Especially within the football world where so much is being done to stop racism. Of course the punishment has come down due to the attention that was drawn to his comments, and in some respect he is a victim of circumstance, although the circumstance was him being a racist.[/quote]Agree, kind of. The history of the word `nigger` obviously carries far more meaning than other racially discriminant terms. However, had he said "too many blacks in our team" i wouldn''t be surprised if Bright picked up on this and the same outcome occured...Had it been an insult on white people however, i imagine he''d probably have got away scot free - which isn''t right either.The end result - of course - the right one. A racist can now longer come to Carrow Road. What leads on from here, however, may not be as good - certainly the way Bright has tried to portray our fans could simply be the start. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Joanna Grey 0 Posted June 1, 2011 [quote user="Row D Seat 7"]Just been confirmed on Twitter, from Norfolk police. Things go from bad to worse for the lad. He''ll learn a big lesson from this.[/quote]Even if they decide to prosecute he''ll only be looking at a £100 fine if found guilty. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Young One 0 Posted June 1, 2011 [quote user="Joanna Grey"][quote user="Row D Seat 7"]Just been confirmed on Twitter, from Norfolk police. Things go from bad to worse for the lad. He''ll learn a big lesson from this.[/quote]Even if they decide to prosecute he''ll only be looking at a £100 fine if found guilty.[/quote]A waste of Police resources to be honest, although I totally disaprove of what he has done & said I think he has had more than enough punishmenti.e Named and shamed in the local paper, picture on the Pink un and no doubt more comments in the papers to follow. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
norfolkbroadslim 223 Posted June 1, 2011 [quote user="SotonCanary"][quote user="norfolkbroadslim"]Anybody who believes that there is or ever was freedom of speech is a naive moron. We are but mere little robots in a Capitalist society, prisoners in a world where people do believe that they have a choice are in fact convinced they have freedom of speech, of thought, of actions; but in reality there is very little if any freedom.......... [/quote]Laughable post. Obvious troll is obvious.[quote user="Lewie - Holt Our Saviour"]Seems absolutely stupid to me, how on earth the club can ban him for comments he made on TWITTER is beyond me. He has a right to say what ever he likes and if someone is offended by this then complain to twitter and he can get his account banned.What a joke of a decision.[/quote]Hardly stupid at all. He made a publicly viewable racist statement about an employee of NCFC. I would say they are right to ban them on this basis - especially as it is essentially what the "Kick Racism out of Football" campaign is about. They didn''t ban him because his tweet was offensive, it was because it was racist; I could tell McNally to f*** off on twitter, I don''t think they''d ban me from the ground for it even if McNally or anyone else found it offensive. Unintentional racism is a joke, it''s just people not realising they''re being racist.As you said, he''s free to say whatever he likes (he wasn''t banned from twitter, nor going to jail) but he has to face the consequences of making such a public and racist statement about a football player of the club.[/quote] Care to elaborate on your comments above? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites