What can we learn from our signings last time in the prem ?

[Crispy 4]

So casting my mind back to our last prem campaign these are the main signings i can remember :

INThomas Helveg - freeSimon Charlton - £250kMatthias Jonson - £850kDavid Bentley - loanGary Doherty - undisclosedJANDean Ashton - 3M

I think on paper our Jan signings weren''t bad... I remember being excited at Helveg (International centre back ) Jonson ( tricky winger according to youtube ), Bently ( Arsenal starlet ) & Charlton ( former clubs player of the season )So what happened ? We had a pretty poor first half to the season winning only 1 of our first 16 games but ultimately these new signings didn''t really command a starting place. If you make the jump up to a new league I think when you sign players they NEED to improve your first 11... quite simply this didn''t seem to happen. Players like Green, Francis & Huckerby seemed to be the only real quality we had & were hardly complemented by our new signings. 4 of new signings started our opener but were in & out of side every other week, only Charlton played consistently. This I feel ( along with the results ) never gave Helveg, Johnson & Bently the confidence to play well for us early on. They should have been given consistent starts early on or gradually eased into the starting 11.... here I feel Worthington failed us. Some blame must also fall on the board as you can see above no real money was spent in the summer. Starting 11''s seemed to change every week as Worthington tinkered to find a win instead of boldly deciding our best team & letting them grow together (Helveg & Bently were a class act at the end of the season but wern''t trusted as much early on).Also looking back on it, it''s laughable that early on Doherty was deployed as our main striker !!!The board saved their pennies however for January & bought us Dean Ashton for a club record of 3 mill. Young, highly rated & hungry to prove himself in the Prem everyone was excited. Worthington started him every game ( a luxury our Jan signings did not get ) & by the end the season his goals nearly kept us up, leaving us wondering ...... what if we had him from the start ?I remember our last game of the season that year, I was at Fulham confident of a win but returned home absolutely deflated.Our transfer policy killed us that season, along with Worthington''s handling of integrating our summer signings into the squad.In my opinion the board drank way too much prudence juice that year & showed ambition way too late in the form of Dean Ashton.This summer Norwich cannot make the same mistakes. I trust Lambert to make signings that will instantly impact our first 11 & hopefully 1 or 2 to break our current transfer record with the boards AMBITION. Anyone remember this season to comment ? Am I being too harsh on Worthy ? Have I got it wrong ? Discussion welcome :-) OTBC

 

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 3,820]

You missed Graham Stuart. Combined with Helveg and Charlton, I suppose you could say that we don''t want ''experienced'' players who are past their sell by date.

[ABC (A Basingstoke Canary) 26]

You are right - NW failed us. He broke up a TEAM and assembled a group of indiviuals with no clear leader. His grasp on reality disappeared when he effectively told Iwan Roberts he wasn''t "good enough for the Premiership".

 

RC may well have ripped the heart out of the club, but NW ripped the soul out of it!

[Nolly 0]

The thing to learn is to know where we need players and get them in the summer and not in January. And players who want to play for us and not just pick up a wage.

As Lambert has proved he will only buy players who are hungry to play for the team, so i''ve no worries on who he will come up with.

[Balham Yellow 0]

I think the two key points are

1, make sure we''re ready in August, signing Ashton pre-season would have kept us up.

2, sign players that are hungry to play for NCFC not those in the autumn of their careers looking for a bit of a pay day.

Sounds obvious and clearly easier said than done.

[Mahogany 0]

For me it''s fairly simple, buy better players. (and maybe a few more of them).

I think the more important lesson that can be learned is from the players leaving. Even if someone isn''t good enough to be starting every week in the Prem doesn''t mean they can''t contribute to the team''s success.

[Norfolk Mustard 94]

NW disposed his centre forward (Iwan) and and played half a season without an obvious replacement. He also bought Bolton''s shortest defender (Simon Charlton) and asked him to become a Prem centre-back instead of Malky. Both were suicidal decisions.

Currently we have a balanced team - if we went ''as is'' we''d be able to give most Prem clubs a decent game. Somehow we need to retain our existing strengths and add to them. PL has the nouse to do just that. Next year is not about giving anyone one decent game though, it''s about being totally capable of competing (Lambert-style) for the entire season. Given PL''s last two seasons, his phylosophy of ''taking the game to the opposition and trying to win'' is unlikely to change. We all know the opposition will be much tougher, but expect more of the same approach!

I think PL has the benefit of observing how Blackpool have gone about things - and he is well aware of how West Ham, Wolves and Wigan have floundered. PL will not be looking to survive next season by doing the least possible to stay there (he and McNally simply don''t think that way) - he will provide us with a team that can adequately do the job. Looking back, I never had the same belief in NW''s ability to manage us safely in the Premiership and I don''t think many others did either.

Chief Scout Ewan Chester has been in position for a while - that was good planning - and should have a pretty healthy dossier  by now! I guess we can shop for a few nearer the top of that wish-list now. With McNally''s stated desire ''to get transfer business done early'' it''s going to be pretty interesting - much of it sooner than later I suspect!

[Yorkshire Canary 118]

keep with the young hungry model that has proved so successful. Ashton was the only one that fell into this catagory last time and was the only real success

[CanaryJames 0]

First off, before we focus too much on who we will sign, we need to make sure we keep the right people.

Simon Lappin for instance, almost certainly won''t be first choice next year. However, I see absolutely no reason why he''d want to leave this club now after all he''s been through, and we MUST keep him. He sums up everything about will, desire and determination.

Likewise, Adam Drury may have limited opportunities. As he''s been here so long, we should respect his wishes if he wants guaranteed first team football elsewhere, but otherwise I''d love him to stick around. Think he''ll make a cracking coach in a few years, so maybe we can get him doing his badges (if he wants) over the next season as well?

[Road to Nowhere 0]

[quote user="CanaryJames"]First off, before we focus too much on who we will sign, we need to make sure we keep the right people. Simon Lappin for instance, almost certainly won''t be first choice next year. However, I see absolutely no reason why he''d want to leave this club now after all he''s been through, and we MUST keep him. He sums up everything about will, desire and determination. Likewise, Adam Drury may have limited opportunities. As he''s been here so long, we should respect his wishes if he wants guaranteed first team football elsewhere, but otherwise I''d love him to stick around. Think he''ll make a cracking coach in a few years, so maybe we can get him doing his badges (if he wants) over the next season as well?[/quote]

 

Agreed, keeping people like Drury and Lappin, even though not guaranteed a start, is crucial. These guys are the heart of the club and if we are in a relegation fight this time next year it will be these characters on and off the field that will help us.

[. 0]

Paul Lambert is in charge now.....It''s a different world this time around.

[writeronthestorm 4]

Sign players to do a specific job and do not play them out of position - I think Worthington went for versatility as part of his plans for having a small squad.  The players only really started to perform when given regular and specific roles within the team.  And let''s remember, we almost did stay up!

I don''t think you can go wrong with 2 players for every position as a basis for a squad.

One thing I am sure of is that if there is one manager that I will trust to sign and release/sell the right players it is Lambert.

[NWC 239]

Do you know, I had almost forgotten about Simon Charlton the centre back!

With Doc up front and him at the back, we really didn''t stand a chance did we?

Things will of course improve this time round.

[anonamoose 4]

What Lambert has been brilliant at is signing players and blending them into the squad whilst keeping that winning mentality. The actual first 11 team has changed a huge amount since he took over, yet all the players talk of momentum and talk like it is the same team that won promotion last year. I am confident he can do the same this year with the step up. I would expect not too many immediate signings and Lambert slowly blending them into a winning team.First 11 09-10. Forster. Martin. Doherty. Nelson. Drury. Russel. Lappin. Smith. Hoolahan. Holt. MartinFirst 11 10-11. Ruddy. Martin. Ward. Whitbread. Tierney. Fox. Surman. Crofts. Hoolahan. Holt. Jackson.Only 3 players from the first 11 which finish last year to which finished this year. THIS is the hard thing to do in football and Lambert is soo good at.

[nutty nigel 7,531]

[quote user="ABC A Basingstoke Canary"]

You are right - NW failed us. He broke up a TEAM and assembled a group of indiviuals with no clear leader. His grasp on reality disappeared when he effectively told Iwan Roberts he wasn''t "good enough for the Premiership".

 

RC may well have ripped the heart out of the club, but NW ripped the soul out of it!

[/quote]

If RC ripped out the heart and NW ripped out the soul[:|] then whatever did ND, PG and GR get up to?

 

 

 

[First Wazzock 902]

[quote user="Paul Cluckbert "]Paul Lambert is in charge now.....

It''s a different world this time around.
[/quote]

So true.

Last time the view was ''we are not going to stay up'', and all the players were signed with a ''when we go down we''ll get our money back'' approach. That wont happen this time.

[GJP 79]

[quote user="Norfolk Mustard"]

I think PL has the benefit of observing how Blackpool have gone about things - and he is well aware of how West Ham, Wolves and Wigan have floundered. [/quote]

Is this actually a good example?

 

Wolves have been in the Premier League for the last 2 seasons and both Wigan and West Ham have been there for the last 5 or 6 years ish.

 

Blackpool could well be relegated after just 1 season, they started brightly but their form over recent months has been very poor. Holloway will probably try to blame it on the Charlie Adam situation but he''s also made some changes that just haven''t paid off.

[Evil Monkey 52]

In all seriousness, would anyone be too upset if our starting XI come August was any different from that of recent weeks?

 

I think, possibly, that questions only really remain over 3 players:

 

Ruddy, on his day can be an outstanding shot-stopper, but has perhaps made a few gaffes which would be punished harshly against better teams.

Ward, but only because I think Barnett is better, taking nothing away from Morrissey''s performance (and haircut)

Surman, but again only because he''s blown hot and cold in a few games in our run-in, punctuated with outstanding games against the likes of Forest and 1p5wich.

 

I''m not saying in any way that those players are ''weak links'', just that I think those areas could be strengthened somewhat.

 

Other than that, I think the likes of Martin, Tierney, Fox and Crofts are going to take a few Premier League teams by surprise. A lot of attention is going to be focussed on our forward three in the run-up, whilst these players may perhaps stay a little more under the radar, certainly in the eyes of the national media.

 

I fully expect our midfield passing to have Hansen and co. purring on MOTD after the first game...

[a1canary 0]

Excellent thread.Although unless i''ve missed it, i can''t believe no-one has mentioned the single biggest mistake we made in the lead up to NWs season in the prem. The disposal (and subsequent failure to replace) big Malky. Somewhere along the line, Worthy had a labotomy, because he knew he had to replace Malky like for like, with a big experienced commanding centre back, and he targetted Linvoy Primus as the man to replace Malky. We all know what happened then, and when it didn''t come off, he decided instead to buy two short-ar*ed full backs who could fill in at centre back, and Gary Doc who played up front in our first games! Like for like replacements for Malky they were not. If he had pulled off the Linvoy transfer, which he so nearly did, i have absolutely no doubt that we would have survived that season. As it was Linvoy went on to become a cult hero and a rock at the back for Portsmouth in their successful spell under Redknapp. There''s no question that him and Flem could have kept out the handful of goals necessary - and probaly a lot more besides - that would have seen us survive. The one thing i have in my mind a little this time is that other teams coming up have tried to play expansive attacking football and come undone. Ourselves of course, WBA under Mowbray, Blackpool (not undone yet but they aren''t going to make it, i think that''s clear). Although i guess it worked well for Reading for a few years and for Hull in their first year until Phil Brown also had a labotamy and thought he had turned in to George Clooney after one year in the Premiership. I think we can survive as long as we can hang on to Lambert, it''s as simple as that. His departure has the danger of having much the same effect as the departure of Mike Walker in 94. The players are totally commuitted to him, just like Fox, Sutton and co were committed to Walker. He goes, they go. But lets not think about that now!

[HazzaJet 252]

Last summer I was worried about our survival in the championship as we''d been relegated from this league the year before and Lambert had no championship experience. After how well we did last season under Lambert though I was pretty sure that he would keep us up, and he has. However Lambert hasn''t just kept us up, he''s now taken us up 2 seasons running and I can tell you now that I never wondered about back to back promotions.

From what he''s now achieved with us I really do believe that we will stay up next season as long as we have him. Just as others have said, the players are totally committed to him and give him everything they can.

I know Worthy made mistakes during the preparation of his Premiership squad but I can''t remember what they were. I can''t see Lambert making any with the signings though, and doubt that he will release any players until he has their positions covered. As a result, I doubt in January we will need to sign another Dean Ashton as much as we did last time (I just think we will be doing better than we were at that time under Worthy).

[Thirsty Lizard 3,162]

In reply to the OP. We also signed Youssef Safri before the start of the season last time we were in the Premiership. Guess he would have come under the heading of experienced pro - rather than ''young and hungry''. Thought he was one of our better players in the 2004/05 season.

[Smudger 0]

[quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="ABC A Basingstoke Canary"]

You are right - NW failed us. He broke up a TEAM and assembled a group of indiviuals with no clear leader. His grasp on reality disappeared when he effectively told Iwan Roberts he wasn''t "good enough for the Premiership".

 

RC may well have ripped the heart out of the club, but NW ripped the soul out of it!

[/quote]

If RC ripped out the heart and NW ripped out the soul[:|] then whatever did ND, PG and GR get up to?

 

 

 

[/quote]Maybe they ripped the testicles out of the club Nutty??? [:|]

[nutty nigel 7,531]

[quote user="Smudger"][quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="ABC A Basingstoke Canary"]

You are right - NW failed us. He broke up a TEAM and assembled a group of indiviuals with no clear leader. His grasp on reality disappeared when he effectively told Iwan Roberts he wasn''t "good enough for the Premiership".

 

RC may well have ripped the heart out of the club, but NW ripped the soul out of it!

[/quote]

If RC ripped out the heart and NW ripped out the soul[:|] then whatever did ND, PG and GR get up to?

 

 

 

[/quote]

Maybe they ripped the testicles out of the club Nutty??? [:|]
[/quote]

Obviously wasn''t worth a mention then[:|]

What returned first[:^)]

And have we got a soul again yet[:^)]

 

[Chelmsford Canary 0]

I would say your spot on.

Ashton was too late.

Experienced players were past best.

Getting shot of Iwan and Malky ripped team apart.

[grantroederdisaster 0]

What we can learn from our signings last time in the Prem?

- Don''t sign foriegners who''ve never played in this County before - Helveg and Jonsson while having a few moments, in particular Helveg at RB overall they wern''t good enough!

- Don''t sign a small ageing full back to replace a strong CB, EG, signing Simon Charlton to replace Malky Mackay at CB was a big error!

Get prepared with squad improvements at the start of the season - EG, we should have signing Crouch or Dean Ashton at the start of the season not half way through!

Don''t sign over rated Premiership reserve player "show Ponies" who don''t really want to be at Norwich - EG, David Bentley!

The original poster missed out Youseff Safri who when fit done a god job for us!

In 2004-05 we made the mistake of getting rid of club stalwrats Mackay and Roberts and getting in Premiership reserves and foriegners who''ve never played here before. The S cum made the same mistake after coming 5th in 2001 they thought they had to get rid of some of their regulars and bring in expensive marcenaries = result was releagtion the next season!

This combined with holding back too much instead of speculating (afterall speculatng the previous season got us promoted!) saw us relegated!

Suffice to say with the current regime and football management, I think they are more wise than the regime of 2004 and will hopefully prepare better for the Premiership!

Also in 2004, the general assumption was that if you were coming into the Premiership after a long time out of the top flight then unless you were a big name club or bankrolled, it was nigh on impossible to compete. Stoke have proved that it is possible with the right moves to establish themselves as a Premiership club!

Another failure of our last Premirship season was out atitude - We spent 3 quarters of the season standing back admiring teams while enjoying days out instead of having a real go at them. When we intially did have a real go at a team, Man U at home and beat them comprehensively, the team realised that we coud get results but by then it was too late!

I have more faith in messrs Mcna(sty but ruddy good!)lly and Lambert than I have Doncaster and Worthington!

[Gingerpele 0]

Should we re-sign Mr Wonderful (aka David Bentley) Never playing for Brum again says on BBC gossip column, because he wasn''t in the squad for tomorrow, so walked out. Definatly the kind of player we want :P

I would have said, yeah he would be been a nice signing, on the condition he realises he isn''t the best footballer around (Obviously Bendtner takes that :P). But if this story is true, then apart from the fact Lambert won''t want him, he really wouldn''t fit in would he...

[ncfc4life 0]

Looking back at those signings made last time, they were pretty much mostly dreadful. Firstly keep the bulk of the first team squad from this season here. Theres a great sprit amongst them and even if they''re not playing it would be handy to have them about. I tink one person who would definitely be essential to keep is Adam Drury. I know hes out of favour but hes been there and done it before and could do with his experience if needed. I think we probably need signings in all areas of the squad really just to add a bit of competition. It certainly sounds like were going to be alot more ambitious than last time. In terms of money how much do people think PL will be given to spend? Surely a good 5-10 Mill needs to be given to him

[ZLF 274]

I think the lesson to be learnt is to sign the players you need early, then let them bed into the team and allow them time to work.

Worthy failed to sign his striker, ending up with Doc out of position as a compromise rather than getting Ashton. I dont see the club repeating that mistake.

By the time Worthy realised that his champs team was not going to succeed it was too late. While we only won 1 game we did not lose many of the early games either and were outside the relegation zone. Worthys premiership crime was to succomb to the pressure of fans to turn his back on his new signings and revert to his old trusted favourites in October.

It was from October to Feb period that we got relegated - look at the team we played during that period, it was primarily the champion winning team.

When he finally found the courage of his convictions and replaced Eddy with Helveg, Holt with Safri, started with Shackell (Flem should have also been replaced, but that is just my opinion) brought Bentley back into the fold to feed Ashton did we start to win games.

People state Ashton start our winning streak, but we signed him in Jan yet the team did not start to perform until all those changes had been made in March.

As Lambert rang the changes from last seasons winning team so he will this close season; he will keep the core of the squad yet enhance it with players who can perform at the next level but with the same mentality where we need it. For example someone with Wards determination but with an extra yard of pace and more quality.

I disagree that worthy ripped the soul out of the team that season; It was Malkys decision to leave us rather than worthys to sell because Malky wanted to play, he had to let him go. Far from ripping the soul out he built a squad capable of staying up (although needed as striker) but did not see his vision though. Worthy always had city at heart, its was just he ran out of ideas and was not dismissed early enough by the board

Lambert will I am sure be his own man.

[YellowLittle1 0]

I think one of the most important things we need to think about is not the starting 11 but the whole squad. We need options if things are going are way and we need the characters in the team aswell.

Drury and Lappin should stay.

I would say Mcnamee, Askou, Tudur-Jones, Gill, Hughes can go.

I would keep young guns coming through like Martin, Smith because they know what the club is about.

Adeyemi, Steer and Rudd I would loan out.

And then I would get an expereinced keeper with Prem experience to help the boys out. Someone like Cudicini or even Hahnemann should Wolves go down.

I think we also need a bit of pace, on the wings and maybe a centre half in the Barnett mould.

I don''t think we need too much this season, just young hungry players. Worthington got some poor players and we never really had a team that year.

I think the way to approach is what we have as a squad and the options we have and the attitude the players have.

Didn''t Worthington sign Jurgen Colin that summer as well?

[Crispy 4]

Yup I agree with the Linvoy Primus shout..... he would have been much better than Simon Charlton !Youseff Safri played well but his goal Vs. Newcastle made him look better than he was.... not sure he was a new signing  tho, wasn''t he bought the year before but plagued with injury ?Totally agree with everyone we seemed to ''enjoy the prem experience'' than believe we could stay there. All the smoke blowing out of Carrow Road this time seems to suggest otherwise.... people keep talking about a goal keeper, to be honest Ruddy is great but I would take Green, Cudiccini or Given if it was at all possible to sign one of them !