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Alex Moss

THE SUN - QPR SET TO BE STRIPPED OF THE TITLE.

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[quote user="Trent Canary"]The Sun article clearly says ''If''. That says it all...[/quote]Of course.The hearing isn''t til tuesday.

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As Ricardo points out it seems there is no one stating that QPR have not committed an offence.

The key questions for me are

1. whether the timing and back dating of the regulations is a permissible mitigation for QPR

2. whether the authorities will issue an appropriate punishement.

Point one is really messy - its unclear to me whether QPR are unlucky timing wise, have foolishly been econmonically with the truth, have blatantly lied to cover a genuine mistake or have been outright fraudulent in their activites. None of us have seen the evidence so how do we know? The reason for the lengthly panel will be for the prosecution to suggest the latter while QPRs barrister will try to create enough doubt to suggest the actions is one of the first three, so allowing a more lenient punishement. Getting the evidence together for both sides and ensuring the right experts are available is probably one of the reasons there has been a delay in the hearing. But that is pure speculation.

As far as point 2 is concerned they may do. But thats purely opinion. Mine is that the authorities are gutless. They cower away from confrontation when money is behind a challenge, which is what would happen here. At no stage have I had any faith that there will be any points deducted, even if found guilty. On that basis, as with Sheff Utd, the play offs will proceed based on the finals days standings and any promotions will be ratified. The clubs missing out will simply get a pay out after going through a lengthy appeal process. I do that that is the wrong thing and QPR will always have their acheivements tainted as in my opinion they have flouted the laws.

Its up to us to get ourselves secure in an auto spot - and we can.

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SSN are also strap lining their understanding that QPR could be deducted up to 15 points which could just be them reading the Sun article. It would become a real mess if the points were duducted to put QPR in the play-offs. I don''t think there wouls be a court action as I think the coutrs ruled in the Tevez affair that it was purely a matter for the sport''s ruling body to deal with. Furthermore I believe membership of the FA (and possibly the FL) is dependent on no civil court actions being brought against them. QPR would risk expulsion if thwey were to do so. However they would appeal the ruling introducing a 7 day delay in resolving the matter. If their potential punishment was upheld they could then appeal to the Court of Arbitration for Sport which could take weeks/months to meet. This would mean no play-offs as the position of QPR would need to be resolved first. Alternatively the current play-off teams do play and join us and cardiff in the Premiership with QPR then forced to go to the courts, expulsion threat or not, and all that would bring about. I can only see the FA/FL either fining them or issuing a points deduction that would deny them the title but not promotion.  

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Yep, the point being that theres no use reading too much into a sun article. Which luckily most people have not.I personally dont think anything will come of it, a large fine and nothing else. But we shall see.

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QPR signed Faurlin on 7th July 2009 three days after the new third party rule was introduced on 4th July. Faurlin has since played for two seasons as an ineligible player, allegedly. Bearing in mind that teams get docked three points per match in this scenario, a fine is totally inappropriate.  They will be fortunate not to be relegated IMO.

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[quote user="paul moy"]QPR signed Faurlin on 7th July 2009 three days after the new third party rule was introduced on 4th July. Faurlin has since played for two seasons as an ineligible player, allegedly. Bearing in mind that teams get docked three points per match in this scenario, a fine is totally inappropriate.  They will be fortunate not to be relegated IMO.[/quote]Now, I could be wrong here, but didn''t they make him eligible by buying out the third party ownership after six matches of this current season?

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[quote user="ricardo"][quote user="spudgfsh"]More rehashing by the mail..

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1381798/Neil-Warnock-wants-Queens-Park-Rangers-win-title.html

They seem to be of the opinion QPR will just be fined...

The only thing for certain is that there will be no decision until next week. How many points (if any at all) that will be deducted also has not been decided. Anyone that thinks otherwise is just speculating[/quote]To be fined you have to be guilty of something. There seems to be very little support for QPR''s claim that they are not guilty.Seems to me that the general concensus has come round to the view that they are guilty of at least some of the charges and the whole argument now is what will be the penalty.The idea that an appeal will upset the playoffs is nonsense. They have 5 days to appeal and a maximum of 2 days to get the result. They can only appeal on 2 grounds, 1. new evidence  2. severity. The appeal committee''s decision is final. Dragging it through the law courts won''t wash either because the precedence is the W. Ham case which was thrown out by the courts.I don''t know what the IRC will recommend but I doubt it will be just a fine.

[/quote]

^

Totally agreed, Ricardo.

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[quote user="ricardo"][quote user="Trent Canary"]The Sun article clearly says ''If''. That says it all...[/quote]Of course.The hearing isn''t til tuesday.[/quote]

And as much as myself and a few others are perhaps reading too much into The Sun''s main sports headline, I also think that there are those that are also reading too much into the use of the ''IF'' word for the above very reason. 7 charges being heard over 3 long days? I can''t see this being a mere slap on the wrists somehow - But as The Sun has reported it as otherwise then they must be wrong...

Next week is going to be the most fascinating week in football that I can ever remember.

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 sun arejust speculating, i don''t think they will have a point deduction disapointingly... no one will know for sure like hucks said a few hours ago its doubtful as west ham only got a fine for carlos

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Alex - True. It will be a very fascinating few days, it a shame that this case is starting to over-shadow our game on Monday. Ive read so many different opinions and ''Insider'' news that Im just going to wait and see what the verdict is. I personally cant see QPR losing out on promotion as a result, all hell would break loose. I just hope that whatever happens it will be settled next week and it wont drag on and on.

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[quote user="Trent Canary"]Alex - True. It will be a very fascinating few days, it a shame that this case is starting to over-shadow our game on Monday. Ive read so many different opinions and ''Insider'' news that Im just going to wait and see what the verdict is. I personally cant see QPR losing out on promotion as a result, all hell would break loose. I just hope that whatever happens it will be settled next week and it wont drag on and on. [/quote]

The more I think about TC, the more I think that *if* the FL were worried about all hell breaking loose then they''d rather it be from just 1 club contesting the decision i.e QPR and not from upwards of 3 or 4 clubs, which is sure to happen should QPR be found guilty but given a relatively small fine. So I think they''ll either be given a points deduction or not found guilty at all. Can you imagine just a fine which would be saying ''QPR are guilty of X amounts of offence/s''? The list of Championship clubs that would kick off so to speak would be endless - Now, THAT would be complicated!.

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Maybe its The Suns article today or maybe the bookies know something else, but we''ve gone from 16/1 to around 3 or 4/1 to win the league.  QPR have gone from 1/33 down to around 2/5 according to oddschecker.

 

Interesting...

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[quote user="jed exodous"]

Maybe its The Suns article today or maybe the bookies know something else, but we''ve gone from 16/1 to around 3 or 4/1 to win the league.  QPR have gone from 1/33 down to around 2/5 according to oddschecker.

 

Interesting...

[/quote]Bookies who make mistakes on whats happening tend to end up out of work, they''re usually not far off whats actually going on!

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[quote user="jed exodous"]

Maybe its The Suns article today or maybe the bookies know something else, but we''ve gone from 16/1 to around 3 or 4/1 to win the league.  QPR have gone from 1/33 down to around 2/5 according to oddschecker.

 

Interesting...

[/quote]

I think some have suggested, and fairly enough, that it''s only because the ''bookies are covering their backsides''. But, that doesn''t change the fact that the odds have changed overnight since the points deduction stories - Funny that because our chances of winning the title surely have not changed since we all played 4 or 5 days ago. Read into that what you will.... But I reckon they know summat, or rather have a strong hunch on what''s likely to happen.

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[quote user="jed exodous"]

Maybe its The Suns article today or maybe the bookies know something else, but we''ve gone from 16/1 to around 3 or 4/1 to win the league.  QPR have gone from 1/33 down to around 2/5 according to oddschecker.

 

Interesting...

[/quote]

I think some have suggested, and fairly enough, that it''s only because the ''bookies are covering their backsides''. But, that doesn''t change the fact that the odds have changed overnight since the points deduction stories - Funny that because our chances of winning the title surely have not changed since we all played 4 or 5 days ago. Read into that what you will.... But I reckon they know summat, or rather have a strong hunch on what''s likely to happen.

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[quote user="jed exodous"]

Maybe its The Suns article today or maybe the bookies know something else, but we''ve gone from 16/1 to around 3 or 4/1 to win the league.  QPR have gone from 1/33 down to around 2/5 according to oddschecker.

 

Interesting...

[/quote]

I think some have suggested, and fairly enough, that it''s only because the ''bookies are covering their backsides''. But, that doesn''t change the fact that the odds have changed overnight since the points deduction stories - Funny that because our chances of winning the title surely have not changed since we all played 4 or 5 days ago. Read into that what you will.... But I reckon they know summat, or rather have a strong hunch on what''s likely to happen.

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[quote user="jed exodous"]

Maybe its The Suns article today or maybe the bookies know something else, but we''ve gone from 16/1 to around 3 or 4/1 to win the league.  QPR have gone from 1/33 down to around 2/5 according to oddschecker.

 

Interesting...

[/quote]Jed - I wouldnt read too much into that. I expect a couple of large bets will have been placed on us or Cardiff and the bookies are probably reacting to that rather than any insider info. Similar to when Paul Lambert was Red-hot favourite to take over at Burnley based on rumour and gossip.Possible though!

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As a lot of you have said, the sun may be full of bull, however they do have a knack of getting the sports stories correct, call it inside info or whatever you want too, we will find out the end of the week, but the only thing to do now is will our team on against pompy, just after boro have ruined cardiff! OTBC!

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[quote user="Alex"][quote user="jed exodous"]

Maybe its The Suns article today or maybe the bookies know something else, but we''ve gone from 16/1 to around 3 or 4/1 to win the league.  QPR have gone from 1/33 down to around 2/5 according to oddschecker.

 

Interesting...

[/quote] I think some have suggested, and fairly enough, that it''s only because the ''bookies are covering their backsides''. But, that doesn''t change the fact that the odds have changed overnight since the points deduction stories - Funny that because our chances of winning the title surely have not changed since we all played 4 or 5 days ago. Read into that what you will.... But I reckon they know summat, or rather have a strong hunch on what''s likely to happen.[/quote]

I think it''s wishful thinking on your behalf that all of the bookies have somehow been given inside knowledge as to the outcome of a ''trial'' that hasn''t commenced yet. Surely, one of the newspapers would also fully know and not report ifs, but facts?

The only thing that has happened is the publicity brought to the case today by the tabloids, which will obviously encourage people to make more bets on Cardiff and ourseleves, and could ultimately sting the bookies if QPR do eventually get points deducted. Its just precautionary by the bookies - they''d be stupid not to.

 

In most cases, they''ve completely shut betting on the outcome already. Not just lower their odds. That would indicate they don''t know, and want to make sure they won''t have any big payouts come the 7th.

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The bookies'' odds are just indicative of money being staked by ''bullish'' Norwich and Cardiff fans I suspect? Also I''m not sure about the theories that QPR ''spin doctors'' are behind the tabloid stories either- if  were in QPR''s shoes I''d be concerned that the content of the reporting could be more damaging than helpful- maybe, just maybe it could be sowing the seeds in everybody''s heads (including the Review Board) that a if a punishment is found to be required, then a significant points deduction is not out of the question? A couple of weeks ago nobody (including me) thought that such punishment would be considered, simply because of the logistic (and possibly legal) implications. Then several people have mentioned the precedent set with Swindon Town in 1990 [:O] (.... different circumstances I know).Even if they are found guilty on several of the charges, I can''t help but feel (IMO) there will be too much temptation for the FA/FL to not ''rock the boat'' too badly. Interesting times though [:)][:)][:)].            

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[quote user="Beauseant"]I think it''s interesting that QPR are now saying on their website that they will make no comment as they and the FA have agreed to keep quiet until after the hearing, yet Colin was happily telling the media last weekend how he had consulted an independent barrister who had assured him that they wouldn''t be penalised. Bit of a reassessment going on at Loftus Road?[/quote]

 

---

 

Of course City1st is THE expert on this message board on journalism but if I knew anything about the subject I''d say this looked very much like someone at the FA getting fed up with two whole months of Loftus Road spin and deciding to put across the other side. I''d also say that 15 prominent paragraphs from a senior football reporter on the biggest selling paper in the country might be a fair way of redressing the balance.

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[quote user="PurpleCanary"]

[quote user="Beauseant"]I think it''s interesting that QPR are now saying on their website that they will make no comment as they and the FA have agreed to keep quiet until after the hearing, yet Colin was happily telling the media last weekend how he had consulted an independent barrister who had assured him that they wouldn''t be penalised. Bit of a reassessment going on at Loftus Road?[/quote]

 

---

 

Of course City1st is THE expert on this message board on journalism but if I knew anything about the subject I''d say this looked very much like someone at the FA getting fed up with two whole months of Loftus Road spin and deciding to put across the other side. I''d also say that 15 prominent paragraphs from a senior football reporter on the biggest selling paper in the country might be a fair way of redressing the balance.

[/quote]

Talking of experts on journalism, and I don''t mean our very own expert ''City1st'', take a look at this thread started by someone claiming to be a journalist of a big paper or something on the QPR forum. Maybe true, maybe false, but a read nevertheless....

http://www.qprdot.org/viewtopic.php?t=52579

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It''s telling that the ip address of the poster claiming to be part of a top paper is from Wales. I''d put a lot of money on it being a Cardiff fan posing as someone in the know.

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[quote user="City1st"]

Perhaps the sun might care to ''borrow'' this EXCLUSIVE from me.

Norwich City''s promotion to the Premier League is set to be blocked by two other clubs. Norwich City are likely to lose points if they fail two beat both teams.

sunsports understands that Norwich could miss out on promotion if both Portsmouth and Coventry win their games against them. The evidence is damning against them and they could now end up in the playoffs.

The sun can reveal that these games are set to be played in front of a televised audience on Tuesday night and, exclusively the sun can also reveal, that Norwich could also play in front of a TV audience AGAIN on the Saturday. That could mean many who had not expected to see the game will probably be able to watch it at lunchtime on Saturday, if they are not already at the game or doing something else.

The sun can also reveal that Norwich could actually be CHAMPIONS on Saturday depending on other results or could be promoted or put back into the playoffs. If Norwich are promoted they have until AUGUST to celebrate, which could see the organising of any celebrations dragging on for days after the final game.

Any celebration could cause major traffic problems in the City centre. However if they are forced into the playoffs any decision could take WEEKS to be resolved with the nightmare scenarion that any celebrations could be held over until JUNE.[/quote]Excellent!The Sun story has no substance to it, and here are the little clues to show it is nonsense;1) The massive "possibly" and "if" in the first paragraph.2) The source is an "FA source" this could be a worker in the canteen or the tea-boy. Certainly not anyone on the panel.3) Talk of "open discussion" within the FA is basically saying "people speculating at the water cooler"The story smacks of the Sun taking a guess and putting up a sensational headline to draw in web traffic and advertising revenue. If the FA don''t deduct points they might follow it up with a "weak FA fail to take action against QPR" or if they are right then expect the Sun to start crowing about there excellent sources.

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"Of course City1st is THE expert on this message board on journalism "

Only when set against much of ridiculous guff posted up by you PC. I would suggest a re read of the ''legendary Iwans'' post as well as Bethnal Greens thoughts

Like wise you do not have to be an expert in anything to know that bookies odds are determined by the money placed - the clue is in the name, bookmaker. Perhaps some of you might care to ask yourself why the odds on Lambert becoming Burnley manager were drastically cut on the day after Burnley''s late night announcement. Did the bookies have inside information (there was none to have) or did they merely adjust the price to reflect the bets placed ?

The real story here is not whether QPR will be fined, deducted points or have all the squad summarily shot as this matter has been debated, speculated and argued over numerous times on this forum. The story is that probably the most unreliable news source has posted up regurgitated news and dressed it up, very carefully, as some kind of revelation the terminally dim have once again over exited themselves and made ludicrous assumptions.

This is a slow news day when sales will doubtlessly dip because of blanket coverage of a wedding. There is little sport of note taking place and no real ongoing sports story so the sun has put up a provacative headline which anyone with any IQ in double figures could see amounts to nothing - other than pretty vacuous speculation. A story that had NOTHING in it that was not known before. AND NOTHING THAT IS VERIFIABLE.

More concerning is that the real story would be that the findings and punishment of a court were known BEFORE the hearing, That would be a story and would suggest that we are in dangerous territory. But they are not known as the story clearly states.

I await more shocking revelations tomorrow -

If Lambert were to shoot Delia he could go the prison and probably serve a long sentence, or not possibly.

A source close (ish) to Carrow Road has admitted that should Norwich City not be promoted there is a great fear that a number of players may not be signed and it could mean others staying. And the other way round IF they do get promoted - be it by automatic promotion, winning a playoff place or an as yet unknown possible punishment to QPR.

Perhaps the sun should set up as a medium as a side line. "is there anyone in the audience who has a relative who has died ? it''s a lady who is coming through, she is possibly someone''s grandmother .... or aunt .... mother possibly ..... she says you are not to worry (about asking her too many questions) as she is alright .................

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[quote user="NauruDude"]Are you a moron? [quote user="GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary"]now where did I leave that pinch of salt?[/quote][/quote]

well you clearly have some hard evidence that the rest of us don''t know about, to be bandying names like ''moron'' about.....care to share???.............................................I''m waiting with baited breath ???????

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[quote user="City1st"]"Of course City1st is THE expert on this message board on journalism " Only when set against much of ridiculous guff posted up by you PC.

 

[/quote]

 

---

 

 

OK, City1st, so what exactly in this post of mine is ridiculous?

Of course City1st is THE expert on this message board on journalism but if I knew anything about the subject I''d say this looked very much like someone at the FA getting fed up with two whole months of Loftus Road spin and deciding to put across the other side. I''d also say that 15 prominent paragraphs from a senior football reporter on the biggest selling paper in the country might be a fair way of redressing the balance.

 

 

 

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I think the only fair option is. Stop QPR going up, force them to play the team who finnishes 3rd with the winner of that match gains promotion. The loosing team then joins the play offs. Then if QPR dont get promotion its there own fault likewise the the team which finnishes 3rd.

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