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Snakepit Ric

Stadium expansion ?

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Now we have sealed promotion to the wonderland. Will the stadium be expanded to the 30000 -35000 it deserves.

I know they were on about it earlier on in the season anyone with anymore info

Cheers

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That''s a lot of money to expand up to 35000 matey. They said they''d do it once we were established so you know they''ll be looking at it in a few years, but immediate concern is paying off some debts and providing PL with funds for survival - that has to be the priority. SURVIVAL!!

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[quote user="snakepit ric"]Now we have sealed promotion to the wonderland. Will the stadium be expanded to the 30000 -35000 it deserves.

I know they were on about it earlier on in the season anyone with anymore info

Cheers[/quote]At the AGM McNally said it would require 2 seasons in the Premier before they could afford it.

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With respect we could not even fill a 26000 seater stadium for most of the season despite our success. It is only as the glory hunters return we have done this. IMO to many people think that a bigger stadium will result in cheaper seats. I dont beleive this and feel the prices would go up to a minimum of £40. Now alledgedly £30 was to much or was it that people did not want to come and watch Norwich playing other championship teams. Building this sort of extension before we have the money to pay ''cash'' would simply be suicidal as should we go back down our gates will return to 25000.

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I agree with your point regarding selling out. Just think a few more thousand Atleast. even in championship we would sell these for at least 50% of home games. I maybe wrong though. I agree we should not do it this year as we have more important issues players etc. I just knew the club had said about this and was not sure when. But as one poster put 2-3 years in prem then doing it like mcnally said would be great fingers crossed.

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But for most matches away teams section have not sold out, I have had the idea of a rolling devider fence so it could be moved in either direction, Mounted on the gantry and locked to the floor, and leave no room for anyone to climb under, No need to take up 7 or 8 rows and cover with nets just a single row each side with Stewards and police in attendance. So in short if we have 500 away fans visit then they could be moved right over to the wall giving us more home seats.   

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The stadium expansion (upper tier to city/south stand) will cost £20mill and take the capacity to 35,000. This will be strongly looked at upon a minimum 2-year stay in the Premiership.

The club were looking at adding a further 1000 seats in the immediate close season in a similar project to that made before the start of this season.

Basic Hypothetical Financial figures:

Current Debt = £20mil

Debt to be paid off next year = £10mil

PL transfer budget = £10mil (incl. wages)

Stadium expansion = £20mil

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That''s a good call, Pete. You should suggest it to the club. It does bug me that stupud green netting over empty seats. The fence doesn''t even have to come down from the roof it could be a movable 8ft extendable affair. I''m sure it''s do-able.

 

I think the Premier league rules state that we have to offer away fans 12% (I think) of the stadium capacity, so already we have potentially more away fans = less home fans than recent seasons.

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That''s not actually true.  We could, but the away clubs have an allocation they could not fill.[quote user="Lambert is King"]With respect we could not even fill a 26000 seater stadium for most of the season despite our success. It is only as the glory hunters return we have done this. IMO to many people think that a bigger stadium will result in cheaper seats. I dont beleive this and feel the prices would go up to a minimum of £40. Now alledgedly £30 was to much or was it that people did not want to come and watch Norwich playing other championship teams. Building this sort of extension before we have the money to pay ''cash'' would simply be suicidal as should we go back down our gates will return to 25000.[/quote]

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[quote user="kellybrook"]That''s not actually true.  We could, but the away clubs have an allocation they could not fill.

[quote user="Lambert is King"]With respect we could not even fill a 26000 seater stadium for most of the season despite our success. It is only as the glory hunters return we have done this. IMO to many people think that a bigger stadium will result in cheaper seats. I dont beleive this and feel the prices would go up to a minimum of £40. Now alledgedly £30 was to much or was it that people did not want to come and watch Norwich playing other championship teams. Building this sort of extension before we have the money to pay ''cash'' would simply be suicidal as should we go back down our gates will return to 25000.[/quote][/quote]

I will stand corrected but prior to our games in April when all games suddenly were like cup finals the home areas only sold out for 3 games Leeds Ipswich and QPR. Should we become an established Premier League team maybe we will sell out every week or maybe everyone will get bored being mid table I dont know, but my point is should we get relegated it would be commercial suicide. Our parachute payments would go on an emptyish stadium rather than players - Is that not where Doncaster took us money for everything except a suceesfull club.  

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They won''t need to expand the stadium if ticket prices go up to 40 quid as one poster suggested. The first thing for the club to do is to test what is a sustainable price, otherwise they may be just adding empty seats. [:D]

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At the end of the day we are a business and the prices for casuals and away supporters will go up in line with what is currently being paid on the premiership.

So for all the moaners on here be prepared for casual tickets to be between £35 and £50 for games next season.

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Premier League rules stipulate that the away allocation offered should be 10% of capacity or 3000 seats, whatever is the smaller. So assuming we get the extra 1000 seats in the summer, we would have to offer away sides around 2750. I can see around half Premier League sides taking the full allocation.

Don''t underestimate how many "glory hunters" will want tickets next season, look at the likes of Blackpool, Burnley, Stoke, Wigan, Sheff Utd. Their crowds doubled for top flight football.

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[quote user="Lambert is King"]With respect we could not even fill a 26000 seater stadium for most of the season despite our success. It is only as the glory hunters return we have done this. IMO to many people think that a bigger stadium will result in cheaper seats. I dont beleive this and feel the prices would go up to a minimum of £40. Now alledgedly £30 was to much or was it that people did not want to come and watch Norwich playing other championship teams. Building this sort of extension before we have the money to pay ''cash'' would simply be suicidal as should we go back down our gates will return to 25000.[/quote]

Will people stop going on about glory hunters we have had fairly consisten attendances for a few years come good and bad times.

The reason why attendances are down are time of year trends, lack of away support and other circumstances, jsut becuase someone does not make everry game does not make them a glory hunter, a lot of people work match days or just cant afford to go every week.

 

 

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[quote user="ricardo"][quote user="snakepit ric"]Now we have sealed promotion to the wonderland. Will the stadium be expanded to the 30000 -35000 it deserves.

I know they were on about it earlier on in the season anyone with anymore info

Cheers[/quote]At the AGM McNally said it would require 2 seasons in the Premier before they could afford it.[/quote]

I saw Mcnally outside the ground yesterday, he said there were looking to expand the city stand but this would take 1 full season in the prem! Expect more seats going in the of the Hotel end.

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The bigger the stadium the better in my opinion. Aim for 35,000 but build bit by bit.

27,500+ vs Man U and Arsenal next season with the extra 1,000 seats and then we''e competing with Stoke and a third of Prem teams will hae lower attendances. A couple of years after that build on the City Stand and 31,000 + and then after that who knows.

Who cares about glory hunters, the bigger the attendance the better. The biggest crowd I''ve been in at Carrow Road was the 28,001 against Ipswich in the ealry 80s but before that we had loads of attendances over 30,0000 and let''s all look forward to that in the near future!

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spend the money on the squad first, very important to stay up in the first season then think about building new stands.

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[quote user="mickfoot"]The bigger the stadium the better in my opinion. Aim for 35,000 but build bit by bit.

27,500+ vs Man U and Arsenal next season with the extra 1,000 seats and then we''e competing with Stoke and a third of Prem teams will hae lower attendances. A couple of years after that build on the City Stand and 31,000 + and then after that who knows.

Who cares about glory hunters, the bigger the attendance the better. The biggest crowd I''ve been in at Carrow Road was the 28,001 against Ipswich in the ealry 80s but before that we had loads of attendances over 30,0000 and let''s all look forward to that in the near future![/quote]

I have to agree... it would be easy to add 3-5,000, of cause its important to buld the squad but you ahve to expand aswell, bit by bit makes sense!

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I think it''s pretty well agreed amongst most on here that in the Prem Norwich right now could sell 35,000 + for the big games and 30,000+ for most of the others no matter how well they are doing.

Clearly there are no actual plans right now to redevelop the City Stand, but again, the general concensus is over the next couple of years it is bound to happen given the fact they sold out most games even in league 1.

But it''s fun to speculate how to increase capacity. I''d go for the option of demolishing the City Stand and building a much larger stand in it''s place, including building on what is now the remainder of Carrow Road itself. For now it would be a mirror image of the Jarrold, complete with improved VIP boxes and VIP seating for Delia et al. But I''d have the option designed in to add a second tier when needed as other clubs have with their newer stadiums.

What would your realistic option be?

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[quote user="Jonzey"]I think it''s pretty well agreed amongst most on here that in the Prem Norwich right now could sell 35,000 + for the big games and 30,000+ for most of the others no matter how well they are doing.

Clearly there are no actual plans right now to redevelop the City Stand, but again, the general concensus is over the next couple of years it is bound to happen given the fact they sold out most games even in league 1.

But it''s fun to speculate how to increase capacity. I''d go for the option of demolishing the City Stand and building a much larger stand in it''s place, including building on what is now the remainder of Carrow Road itself. For now it would be a mirror image of the Jarrold, complete with improved VIP boxes and VIP seating for Delia et al. But I''d have the option designed in to add a second tier when needed as other clubs have with their newer stadiums.

What would your realistic option be?[/quote]

I believe the foundations are in place to double teir it, i wouldnt have thought they will go the Jarrold route, more likely go higher! For the time being fill in the holiday inn corner and im sure they could get a few more in on the two end tiers! we will see but thye do need to increase for next season it will pay for its self and charge the new people wanting to come premier ship prices!

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[quote user="CANARY CHARGE"][quote user="Jonzey"]I think it''s pretty well agreed amongst most on here that in the Prem Norwich right now could sell 35,000 + for the big games and 30,000+ for most of the others no matter how well they are doing.

Clearly there are no actual plans right now to redevelop the City Stand, but again, the general concensus is over the next couple of years it is bound to happen given the fact they sold out most games even in league 1.

But it''s fun to speculate how to increase capacity. I''d go for the option of demolishing the City Stand and building a much larger stand in it''s place, including building on what is now the remainder of Carrow Road itself. For now it would be a mirror image of the Jarrold, complete with improved VIP boxes and VIP seating for Delia et al. But I''d have the option designed in to add a second tier when needed as other clubs have with their newer stadiums.

What would your realistic option be?[/quote]we will see but thye do need to increase for next season it will pay for its self and charge the new people wanting to come premier ship prices! [/quote]

Let''s not be too quick to dump on our own fans. Don''t forget that a lot of these "casual fans" will have gone to a lot of games last season due to the fact that I don''t think a single team sold out their away allocation. More teams will sell out their allocations next season meaning that less Norwich fans will be able to go.

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The biggest mistake the club made was selling out the hotel corner without any thought, What they should have done is sold the corner and drew up plans that would have incorporated a stand into a hotel simillar to MK dons where some of the rooms double up as executive boxes and corporate lounges. If seats had been inforporated into the hotel development the club could have shared income with them on match days for that area which would have meant that money would have come in each match rather than just making a quick buck while selling the land.

The city stand being the smallest is the obvious area to add another tier and with carrow road not being a major road now they could possibly even go bigger than the oigional plans for it. Some say the jarrold stand was built in a way to add another tier and others say not, im not sure whos right,

The other options I suppose would be  removing the roof off the river end or barclay and expanding the upper tiers or adding another, if this was possible this would be good as it would remove the obstructive pillars.

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I think they should start looking into the plans of it.

It will be a complex project, that needs considerable programming - especially if they decide to demolish the City stand and start again.

Consulting fans, members etc can take months, planning can be 8-12 weeks

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"Basic Hypothetical Financial figures:

Current Debt = £20mil

Debt to be paid off next year = £10mil

PL transfer budget = £10mil (incl. wages)

Stadium expansion = £20mil "

Complete nonsense.

the debt has been restructred. It would have taken into account possible time spent in the Premier League. You cannot just arbitarily pay off any amount you choose. Even if you could it would make sno financial sense. All business runs on borrowings (debt), it is only a problem when the payments cannot be met.

Transfer budget of £10m, including the wages. The bonuses and increased wages will take up most of that. Do you think that players who are with us now have no clauses in their contracts that state they will be paid a Premier league wage when the play in the Premier League ?

£20m to built the new stand. God, we go from fantasy to sheer lunacy. Presuming we start sometime soon and we use the replace/add to the mani stand. We do we put those fans who wil have to be displaced during the building work ? This presumes that design and planning permission can be rushed through dressing rooms can be built elsewhere along with all the rest that is in the main stand.

"The biggest mistake the club made was selling out the hotel corner without any thought". I think any lack of thought comes from yourself. I doubt any fan wanted to lose that space. However at the time we had just spent £3.5m on the community infill and had debts approaching £20m. If they were not secured they could have been called in and we know how that affected us 15 years ago. Difficulty decisions but hardly made ''without any thought''.

Corner seating is far costly than straight seating. The recent talk of building on the main stand suggested 5000 extra capacity and the best part of one season to do it in. There was talk in March of this year of looking to see if more seats can be put , where I don''t know but when the Hotel plan was first mooted there was talk of space in front of it being available for seating. Doubt anything came of it.

My own thoughts are that the club will seek to squeeze in extra capacity where it can, push up ''retail'' sales a bit more and generally pull in as much revenue as possible then see where we are March of next season. If it looks like we can stay in the Premier League then I expect they will be a tightening up on concessions with those tickets being the exception rather than about 50% or such of capacity. As unkind as it sounds it can''t make financial sense to be charging little johnny £60 for a season ticket when you can get that figure for two games or less.

So it''s going to have to be a case of breath in, ban the fatties and do a deal with the hotel where by the pitch facing rooms can be used as ''executive boxes'' for the afternoon.

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[quote user="Dave"]Some say the jarrold stand was built in a way to add another tier and others say not, im not sure whos right,[/quote]This question was asked a few years ago when the Main Site had a "Questions for the Club" section, it was answered by Joe Ferrari (NCFC Head of Media) who said the original plan for the South Stand included foundations that could take a second tier but the Club went for the cheaper option of having foundations for a single tier stand.

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[quote user="CANARY CHARGE"][quote user="Jonzey"]I think it''s pretty well agreed amongst most on here that in the Prem Norwich right now could sell 35,000 + for the big games and 30,000+ for most of the others no matter how well they are doing.

Clearly there are no actual plans right now to redevelop the City Stand, but again, the general concensus is over the next couple of years it is bound to happen given the fact they sold out most games even in league 1.

But it''s fun to speculate how to increase capacity. I''d go for the option of demolishing the City Stand and building a much larger stand in it''s place, including building on what is now the remainder of Carrow Road itself. For now it would be a mirror image of the Jarrold, complete with improved VIP boxes and VIP seating for Delia et al. But I''d have the option designed in to add a second tier when needed as other clubs have with their newer stadiums.

What would your realistic option be?[/quote]

I believe the foundations are in place to double teir it, i wouldnt have thought they will go the Jarrold route, more likely go higher! For the time being fill in the holiday inn corner and im sure they could get a few more in on the two end tiers! we will see but thye do need to increase for next season it will pay for its self and charge the new people wanting to come premier ship prices! [/quote]The foundations are in place to add a tier onto the Main Stand and I would imagine (I''m not an architect) that this should be able to be done without having to move people whilst the work is carried out. Once the roof is off it would be mostly preformed concrete and steel girders that would be used for the upper tier which once in place (I can''t see why this can''t be done over the summer) could allow work to be carried out up there and not effect the seating area below. IMO there is nothing stopping the upper tier overhanging Carrow Road.

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Today it was reported that Arsenal''s cheapest season tickets were not far short of £1000.  Now I''m no way suggesting ours should match those. But I''m sure if we do stay up in the big league supporters are in for an unpleasant shock when ticket prices will certainly rocket. Like Nutty said,  concessions and kids tickets will be first in the queue to have a major hike.

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We shouldn''t expand the stadium yet, in case we go back down next season. If we stay up and happened to turn into a stronger side like some of the teams that have come up recently (eg Stoke, I do believe they''re financially better off though), hopefully our finances will improve and maybe we should expand the stadium.

Ticket prices - I do believe ours should be increased for the PL, but nowhere near to Arsenal''s. They say they''ve increased them because of the inflation but the Arsenal Supporters Trust have already said that it will price lots of loyal fans out, and Norwich know that they mustn''t do that to us. In my opinion, for a big team that hasn''t won a trophy for 6 years now, I reckon Arsenal should decrease them.

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THIS SUMMER - I thought there was a post somewhere about another 800 seats: 100 in the Barclay and 700 in the Barclay - Jarrold stand corner. Can someone please confirm / clarify.

CITY STAND - was built with foundations to take a second tier.

JARROLD STAND - I thought that got planning permission to add another 4,000 seats later. Given the amount of piling that was done I would be amazed if it was ready for a second tier to be added later. Furthermore given the space behind the Jarrold they can do some more piling. It will probably end up looking like the Kemlyn stand at Anfield.

ARSENAL PRICES - A week or so ago I heard an Arsenal fan who travels from Bournemouth to home games state then when they moved to the Emirates he was paying £900 a season, for the new season they are expecting £2,700!!! from him. He is expecting some new players before he renews. I can''t see Arsenal decreasing their prices but a standstill would have been fair to their fans.

OUR PRICES - I agree that if we stay up I wouldn''t be surprised if McNally tries to push through a sizeable increase.

 

 

 

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Certainly something about 800 extra seats, which I recall came from the club, extra seats in the Jarrold and infill in front of the lower part of the hotel. There was a comment which said that based on the footprint of the ground, stands etc there should be the ability to increase by 800 without significant disruption, or something along those lines.

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