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Yellow Rider

Portman Pacheco please

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No this isn''t some anti Jackson rant - in this fantastic season I can''t believe for one minute that anyone ''hates'' a Norwich player although I see there is a ''Jackson haters'' thread on the board.

True, Jackson has at last started to score some goals and on Friday was unlucky second half with two good strikes. However, to say ( as some have) that he was MOTM is patently absurd. He had nothing like the overall influence on the game that Surman or Ward did. Jacko has always given 100% come what may. I remember seeing him at Bramall Lane in January and the boy worked his socks off, never looked like scoring mind you!

The problem with Jackson is that the team try and hit him with far too many early balls and that''s easy stuff for big and strong central defenders. Headers are won comfortably (not Jackson''s fault) whilst he simply bounces off same defenders when the ball is played up to him on the ground.

Now Pacheco.

When he made his debut v Scunthorpe, Jackson was on the bench. Why? Because PL clearly thought Jacko was not good enough. Pacheco had a sizzling debut although Jacko came on and grabbed a hat trick. Some posters have said that ''Pacheco then had two poor games''. Er, No - he was creative against Swansea and was surprisingly subbed in second half. After that what little crerativity we had shown, vanished. True he was poor at Watford but didn''t seem to know what his role was and most of the time the ball was being smashed high over his head as we hit a stream of hopeful high balls to Holt and Vokes.

Up front Pacheco can glide past defenders as if they''re statues, Jacko has not got that ability or the vision of Pacheco.

At Ipswich, we''re playing on one of the best surfaces in professional football. Their central defenders are strong but ponderous. High balls will be eaten for breakfast if we play Jacko. I say keep the ball on the floor and let Pacheco run at them in the box. He would destroy them.

Jacko can always be brought on as an impact player to try and get at defenders with his pace.          

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I thoroughly agree. It is such a hard decision as to who we play. We have so many options, which is good but frustrating. My first choice 11 has to leave out : Lansbury, Korey Smith, Lappin, Vokes, McNamee, Jackson and Chris Martin! [:(]                 RuddyMartin Ward Whitbread Tierney                Fox   Crofts            Surman            Hoolahan                    Pacheco              HoltPacheco behind Holt, but in front of Hoolahan, kinda.

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Jackson no way deserves to be dropped and Pacheco DID have two poor games at Swansea and Watford.  Jackson can also play and be a threat when the ball is at his his feet and this will be where Ipswich are caught out.  Also yes we play too many long balls up to Jackson but he doesn''t half do well with them for a little man, he gets up and puts the defender under pressure and wins his fair share.

 

Pacheco can come off the bench but for me Jackson MUST start.

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[quote user="Yellow Rider"]

No this isn''t some anti Jackson rant - in this fantastic season I can''t believe for one minute that anyone ''hates'' a Norwich player although I see there is a ''Jackson haters'' thread on the board.

True, Jackson has at last started to score some goals and on Friday was unlucky second half with two good strikes. However, to say ( as some have) that he was MOTM is patently absurd. He had nothing like the overall influence on the game that Surman or Ward did. Jacko has always given 100% come what may. I remember seeing him at Bramall Lane in January and the boy worked his socks off, never looked like scoring mind you!

The problem with Jackson is that the team try and hit him with far too many early balls and that''s easy stuff for big and strong central defenders. Headers are won comfortably (not Jackson''s fault) whilst he simply bounces off same defenders when the ball is played up to him on the ground.

Now Pacheco.

When he made his debut v Scunthorpe, Jackson was on the bench. Why? Because PL clearly thought Jacko was not good enough. Pacheco had a sizzling debut although Jacko came on and grabbed a hat trick. Some posters have said that ''Pacheco then had two poor games''. Er, No - he was creative against Swansea and was surprisingly subbed in second half. After that what little crerativity we had shown, vanished. True he was poor at Watford but didn''t seem to know what his role was and most of the time the ball was being smashed high over his head as we hit a stream of hopeful high balls to Holt and Vokes.

Up front Pacheco can glide past defenders as if they''re statues, Jacko has not got that ability or the vision of Pacheco.

At Ipswich, we''re playing on one of the best surfaces in professional football. Their central defenders are strong but ponderous. High balls will be eaten for breakfast if we play Jacko. I say keep the ball on the floor and let Pacheco run at them in the box. He would destroy them.

Jacko can always be brought on as an impact player to try and get at defenders with his pace.          

[/quote]

Ward MotM on Friday didn''t see this at all, had a much better game than some he''s played but Zak was outstanding at the back Ward was just a bit player to the real star.

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Jackson leapt like a salmon to win that header that led to Surman''s goal..if they played more through balls to him however, he would be far more devastating and appreciative I''m sure

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its an interesting debate, this one.

i have all the time in the world for pacheco. he''s quality - pure and simple. and i''ve been frustrated more often than not with jackson. he just doesn''t seem to keep a cool head when he''s on the ball. he''s got to be a clinical finisher and he needs ice in the veins for that. he''s not there yet. pacheco has that spanish technique when he looks like he''s moving slowly but he''s just gliding past defenders. no one did this better than zidane....slow-looking but impossible to stop.

HOWEVER, i am not sure having hoolahan and pacheco on at the same time is the right move here. one of the most important things the boys do is create space for hools to work in. that space between the other teams midfield and defence. and i think one of the ways to do that is to stretch the defence by having someone quick on the shoulder always forcing the defence back and helping create that room for hoolahan. holty does that a bit but he''s normally in the thick trying to win balls. jackson is that player. without him, as much as he frustrates me, hools will get crowded out. and an ineffective hoolahan trumps the fact that pacheco is simply miles better than jackson.

that, plus the fact that in the heat of the derby, having two super creative players who are not the strongest like hools and pacheco might get us a bit outmuscled.

so....jackson in. pacheco on the bench.

course, i''d be happy to see pacheco stick it to the binners!!

thoughts?

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[quote user="nycanary"] ....plus the fact that in the heat of the derby, having two super creative players who are not the strongest like hools and pacheco might get us a bit outmuscled....[/quote]

Pacheco and Wes can take care of themselves, they ain''t no wimps.

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Completely disagree with this. My choices for MOTM on Friday were Surman and Jackson. To make the statement your not Jacko bashing and then say it''s absurd to say he wasn''t a contender for MOTM is ridiculous and you obviously aren''t a fan of Jacko and ignored his effort v Forest.

I thought he was absolute class, touch was good linked up well and looked a threat, and this is playing in a side totally wrong for him. He would look better in a counter attacking side who play quicker direct football and one that gave him more open opportunities on goal in open spaces, not with defenders surrounding him all the time, as a result of our patient possession style buil up.

Pacheco on the other hand looked like Messi versus a shambles Scunthorpe side, who literally couldn''t be bothered. But up against two good sides in Swansea and Watford looked poor in my opinion.

To suggest Jackson should be dropped after 4 goals in 3 games and a great showing v Forest for a Pacheco who has looked poor in his last two games and only really looked any good against a pathetic Scunthorpe side is laughable.

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[quote user="CanaryJames"]I wouldn''t change it. Jackson has earned his place in the side, and doesn''t deserve to be dropped.[/quote]

This. I think he will cause their slow back 4, including McAuley and Delaney, all sorts of problems. Pacheco knows he will get another chance.

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I''m just not so sure about the diamond away from home. It gives me palpitations at home but when we''re away and have to expect to be put under more pressure, i don''t know how Lambert copes with watching!

It didn''t work at Watford, admittedly without Wes, and Lambert switched to 4-4-2 with McNamee and Lansbury on the wings which worked a treat. Then you''re back to the old chestnut of where to put Wes in a 4-4-2. But personally, i think ''The New Wes'' who has a great engine, gets up and down and gets stuck in, could quite easily sit in with Crofts in the centre. Then you can start with Surman left with MacNamee as an option, and Henri or Korey on the right. Up front, i agree with the OP, i''d quite like to see Pacheco and Holt up top together. I think Pacheco gets on the ball more and makes more happen than Jackson, who relies more on getting on the end of lofted balls or through balls and he''s going to get less of that away from home and at a derby when there''s sure to be a midfield battle going on.

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Pacheco looks a good player, he had an excellent debut against a poor Scunny side and then struggled a bit against two much better sides.

 

Jackson has looked lively of late, got his chance against against a Forest side that gave us probably the hardest game at Carrow Road this season and worked his nuts off all night long - unlucky not to score on a couple of times with well worked efforts.

 

It''d be very harsh to drop Jackson after that and (to use the cliché) at the end of the day he is our player.

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[quote user="Huckerbys Boots - Matt"] I thought he was absolute class, touch was good linked up well and looked a threat, and this is playing in a side totally wrong for him. He would look better in a counter attacking side who play quicker direct football and one that gave him more open opportunities on goal in open spaces, not with defenders surrounding him all the time, as a result of our patient possession style build up.[/quote]

 

This is a very good point and maybe goes some way to explaining why Jackson has taken time to settle. All through the season his wok rate has never dropped though and now he seems to be reaping the rewards with some influential displays which are also getting him amongst the goals. To even consider dropping him is a little strange.

 

It''s often difficult to get a rhythm going in derby matches (although we managed pretty well in the home game [:D]) as there are a lot of niggly little fouls going on and players on both sides are desperate to show the fans how commited they are to the cause. I suspect that the fact that this will be the first derby under lights for a good few years will also increase the tension via a better atmosphere inside the ground. If we can''t get our patient passing game going then a player like Jackson who has the pace to unsettle the Ipswich defence could be vital. Especially as he now looks a lot more confident in front of goal.

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Jackson is scoring goals and Pachecho isnt...its goals that win games, "ghosting past defenders" doesnt.time to become a hero on Thursday Simeon.

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Come off it, Pacheco has hardly had the chances Jacko has had. Jacko hadn''t scored for 5 months until Scunthorpe. Still, we can come on here debating whether it should be Pacheco, Jackson or Vokes but the best thing of all is that however much we debate it, we can be safe in the knowledge that Lambert will make the right decision. Because he is God. Him and Grant. And Wes. 3 gods we have!

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INRAT

Pacheco wanders. Wes is King of Wandering. Pacheco sub.

We need Simeon "Quick Kiss" Jackson to push their defence back, as they be so afeared o'' his litenin pace, ya har. Then that creates lovely old space in the midfield dangerzone for the Spirit of Kenny Loggins to bless Maestro Fox and our high tempo possession game to rock and roll them all over the pitch as we keep the ball and make them run like dogs for a chance of a touch. Or they push up and bite into us, in which case Surman, Fox, Wes, Crofts, Holt, Tierney, Whitbred, Ward, or Russell Martin play a deft thru ball and SJ gets busy with the fizzy.

In Summary. Don''t fuck with a winning team.

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Well if you ''Ghost'' past a defender and cut it back for Holt to score (1st goal against Scunthorpe) surely that counts?

There''s some well-thought out points on this thread so far! I agree, Jackson isn''t playing in a side set up to maximise his strengths - pinging high balls at him is hopeful at best. Seeing him literally bouncing off defenders and not getting many free kicks tells me he isn''t receiving the right service; that being a 4-4-2 formation and playing alongside a big guy flicking things on for him. When we bought Jacko I''m sure his strength was described by PL as ''He likes to play off the shoulder of defenders'' - bit bizarre then, that we don''t play a system designed to take advantage of that now he''s here?

Unlike Jackson (who needs space to be created for him via the movement of others) Pacheco constantly finds space for himself - even in intricate situations. He comes off defenders and they simply don''t know whether to go with him or not. Instinct seems to say ''don''t get pulled out of position'', so they usually remain where they are - result being Pacheco has drifted into space ready to create. Technically he''s gifted enough to do just about everything you''d hope for - including scoring.

Against Ipswich, I''d opt for Pacheco. Sentiment doesn''t seem to be in PL''s locker; he openly states he picks the best team to win each game. Central defence-wise, Ipswich will be little different to Forest - Jacko wasn''t hugely succesful against them, so I''m hoping to see Pacheco start this time.

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[quote user="Norfolk Mustard"]

Central defence-wise, Ipswich will be little different to Forest - Jacko wasn''t hugely succesful against them, so I''m hoping to see Pacheco start this time.

[/quote]

 

It was a toss up between Jacko and Surman for MoM on Friday night. I''d say that counts as a pretty succesful nights work.

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Jackson hada great game Friday and turned the match against watford.

Pacheco was poor against and Swansea and worse agaisnt Watford, his short passing was shit, kept giving the ball to the oppo.

I agree against a really poor scunthorpe side he had a very good debut.

Jackson has found his touch and his confidence and has started scoring again, he is quick and with the service he is getting will be more of a threat against the scum.

Keep the team the same unless there are injuries.

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[quote user="Huckerbys Boots - Matt"]Completely disagree with this. My choices for MOTM on Friday were Surman and Jackson. To make the statement your not Jacko bashing and then say it''s absurd to say he wasn''t a contender for MOTM is ridiculous and you obviously aren''t a fan of Jacko and ignored his effort v Forest. I thought he was absolute class, touch was good linked up well and looked a threat, and this is playing in a side totally wrong for him. He would look better in a counter attacking side who play quicker direct football and one that gave him more open opportunities on goal in open spaces, not with defenders surrounding him all the time, as a result of our patient possession style buil up. Pacheco on the other hand looked like Messi versus a shambles Scunthorpe side, who literally couldn''t be bothered. But up against two good sides in Swansea and Watford looked poor in my opinion. To suggest Jackson should be dropped after 4 goals in 3 games and a great showing v Forest for a Pacheco who has looked poor in his last two games and only really looked any good against a pathetic Scunthorpe side is laughable.[/quote]

 

You need to re-read my original post. Just because I didn''t think Jackson was man of the match, how does that imply i''m ''bashing him''?? My post had plenty of praise for him.

You''re right that Scunthorpe were poor, very poor in fact so I agree it''s not straightforward to make a judgement that Pacheco''s showing against them was a benchmark of his ability. Still don''t get this ''poor'' against Swansea though. Jackson did''nt start against Swansea after scoring a hat trick so that kind of blows your theory out of the water I''d say. I want Jackson to succeed as much as you do and it may just be that with his confidence up he can get at Ipswich with his pace and deliver. My point is that we get sucked into playing too many long balls with him upfront. Ipswich defenders will eat that for breakfast I fear. Pacheco running at them inside the box is a different matter.

Jackson will start, of that there is no doubt. The boy has improved but there is much more to come from him hopefully.  If not then I don''t think he is a top Championship forward. If that''s ''bashing'', I''m sorry. I would call it an objective assessment.         

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Interesting debate this. I would disagree with those who say Pacheco was poor against Swansea. Yes he tried a fair few things that didn''t come off but he also was our most creative player and had Holty had his shooting boots on then Pacheco would have created a couple of goals in that match. He wasn''t great against watford but then for some reason we were hoofing the ball to the two big men for the first half there. His presence in the team would probably give us more control in the midfield area and help with ball retention. This could be important away from home in what is sure to be a feisty affair.

On the other hand, Jackson is coming good and to drop him would be extremely harsh when he finally seems to have redicovered his scoring touch. He is a confidence player and right now his confidence is up. His work rate and movement also compliment Holty well. He could well make himself a hero on thursday night.

On balance, I think i would stick with Jackson but it is by no means an easy decision!

 

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nycanary has it pretty much bang on in my opinion.

The other reason to include jackson, in my opinion is to take a bit of the channels workload of Holt who may be less than 100%.

Whilst Pacheco and Hoolihan worked against Scunthorpe, I think Scunthorpe were so poor that day it is very difficult to judge anyone on that game.  I didn''t think Pacheco was brilliant at Swansea, but he looked far more effective when he dropped deeper.  He showed enough to suggest he has plenty of ability, but from a team point of view Jackson is what we need in my opinion at the moment.

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I think it''s a lovely problem to have. Two strikers, one in great form and the other offering something slightly different to other options up front.For my two penneth, Pacheo would get the nod from me, solely on the basis that Ipswich''s large, lumbering defence would struggle, IMO, to deal with his clever running and creativity. I think, though, if he picks Jackson, he''d do well himself.

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Too many people who still can''t hold their hands up and say that they called something wrong on here, that''s your problem.Pacheco has some ability, of that there is no doubt, but like others he needs to earn his place in the team and he hasn''t done enough to do that as yet (despite having increased opportunity to through the injury to Wes).  Far too many people on here who are prepared to give overboard praise to one player (who is only here on loan) while they slate one of their own.Jackson has as good a goal to minutes on the pitch ratio as the majority of forwards in this league and the treatment he has had from the majority of our fans has been nothing short of disgraceful in my opinion.It''s up to us to back a very talented young striker, signed by a very good manager, or alternatively watch him walk away and bag loads of goals for a club whose fans truly appreciate him!

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At last! Thank you Smudger you are spot on (on this thread anyway lol). Agree with you 100%. Think if Simeon starts he''s gonna bag a brace on Thursday night. I Maybe wrong but you get used to that being married!?!? Any way if he starts he''ll give 100%, and with that little bit of luck on his side.... Who knows!

Pacheco to come on after 70 mins to torment the Ipsh*t defense.

Come on u Yellas

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