Should we go up.

[BroadstairsR 0]

This is similar to another post but hopefully different enough to justify a new one.

 

The last time we failed, albeit by just one bad result on the last day. Many have said the players did not turn up at Fulham, but there would have been no real reason for that.

 

More probably, Fulham had nothing to play for and were far more relaxed than we were. That kind of thing can go both ways. I was assuming the Cottagers had started their holidays already and had got my beers in. Instead they played as if they were on the training ground.

 

Things have changed quite a lot since then, primarily players wages have now gotten even more totally out of control. Lessons can be learned from the experiences of both Hull and Blackpool and not the Wolves or West Broms. The two latter are yo-yo sides who can carry the financial burden better than the previous two arrividists. We seem to be in the middle, although veering towards the Blackpool scenario.

 

Hull went over the top (eg. Jimmy Bullard''s wages) got relegated and are now in serious trouble. Blackpool have been more moderate and even if they are relegated will be under no great wages burdon, bearing in mind the parachute payments.

 

I personally think Nigel Worthington got it nearly right and Ashton''s belated signing was not of his doing. He was unlucky to a certain extent. I even rated Helveg.

 

In sum, PL should stick mainly with what we have, ala Blackpool. He has the know-how to strengthen when the need arises. No big wages signings please. No fancy names on telephone numbers wages.

 

If we fail and are relegated, then our debts will be greatly lessened by parachute payments (which are generous) and we could then become a yo-yo side which is certainly more fun than being a League One side, albeit the most superior L1 side in recent history.

 

For as long as my recent memory serves we have been a club in debt. Solving this is a priority for me. A few seasons in the mid-table of the Premiership would be very nice as long as we profit from it. 

 

I am oldish and conservative and this formulates my opinions. No doubt some younger bloods will disagree.

 

 

[Mister Chops 7]

I see no reason why we shouldn''t follow the Blackpool/Burnley model, though hopefully with more success than they''ve enjoyed.  I''d like to see three or four genuine quality signings - particularly a proven finisher - but I wouldn''t go crazy and revamp the whole squad. I like the Blackpool comparison - Wes is our Charlie Adam.

[Felixfan 53]

If you were at the AGM the 7 year plan factors in promotion followed by relegation with debts cleared.Promotion again with consolidation, new stand and self sufficiency.

[BroadstairsR 0]

Wes came from Blackpool on the cheap because of a sell-on clause.

 

The club makes the most of their resources, unlike Ipswich for example. We are now a bit successful in this respect too after a few years of sheer nonsense. Well meant ... but nonsense. 

 

I have some sympathy and respect for their (Blackpool''s) owners, the Oystons, and hope they stay up.

 

Their manager is good too, until he opens his mouth.

[BroadstairsR 0]

[quote user="Felixfan"]If you were at the AGM the 7 year plan factors in promotion followed by relegation with debts cleared.Promotion again with consolidation, new stand and self sufficiency.[/quote]

 

Not there of course, but echoes my point to a certain extent.

[Boyo 0]

I too don''t want us to spend silly amounts of money only to be relegated and I want to take the Blackpool approach although it could go horribly wrong.  However IF we go up we must strengthen because this squad wouldn''t last five minutes and would probably rival Derby''s lowest ever points total.  So yeah lets not go and spend millions on failed ex-premier league rubbish but strengthening is a MUST if we want a realistic chance of staying up, attempting to become a yo yo club is very, very risky.

[I am a Banana 0]

Say we go up, who would you want to bring in?

A) The Young Hungry Players

Although he is our player Cody should be given a chance. If he can''t offer us anything extra we can sell him for £300k/£500k to a league 1/2 club.

I was gutted EBennett didn''t join us (i was sad enough to call my fifa11 pro Elliott Bennett [:$]) So i would go for him. (£2m)

Depending on how Vokes does maybe bring him in on a full time basis. I would say the same about DPacheco but I cant see liverpool selling him.

Enquire about Mr Lansbury. See if arsenal would sell him, with a clause that they could buy him back for a fee?

We would also need a proven winger. AMacNamee just isn''t a Championship level player so could be off loaded. A player LIKE SSinclair would be ideal but can''t see him leaving Swansea.

B) The Old Experianced Players

I can''t think of any at the moment but players who have previous prem exp and who wouldn''t ask for more than £10k a week in wages!

 

[Robornio 106]

I don''t think our 6-0 defeat was anything to do with Fulham ''relaxing'', nor can we use this as a scapegoat excuse.

Surely the real cause was to do with the bad preparation, poor motivating and wrong tactics adopted by Worthington for that match?? In the end, all we needed from one game was to get a single point or better. Instead, taking in to account our diabolical away form under Worthington (having not one away at all that season) we decided to play a better side (who were then mid-table) at their own ground with a completely ''gung-ho'' open system.... so inevitably after conceding the first two goals, heads dropped and we got utterly destroyed. There is nobody else to blame but ourselves (or more aptly the manager).

Yet, I really could not see this happening with Lambert in charge. We adapt depending on we play. Our away form has been stronger than our home form and there isn''t a single moment where our players morale has dropped in any game - nor after a defeat. Also, one of Lambert''s best attributes is to spot good players needed for the team in order to progress. So I have every confidence in him, even if he chose to replace half the team should we go up. I''m sure we''d fair much better this time around.

[BroadstairsR 0]

[quote user="Robornio"]I don''t think our 6-0 defeat was anything to do with Fulham ''relaxing'', nor can we use this as a scapegoat excuse. Surely the real cause was to do with the bad preparation, poor motivating and wrong tactics adopted by Worthington for that match?? In the end, all we needed from one game was to get a single point or better. Instead, taking in to account our diabolical away form under Worthington (having not one away at all that season) we decided to play a better side (who were then mid-table) at their own ground with a completely ''gung-ho'' open system.... so inevitably after conceding the first two goals, heads dropped and we got utterly destroyed. There is nobody else to blame but ourselves (or more aptly the manager). Yet, I really could not see this happening with Lambert in charge. We adapt depending on we play. Our away form has been stronger than our home form and there isn''t a single moment where our players morale has dropped in any game - nor after a defeat. Also, one of Lambert''s best attributes is to spot good players needed for the team in order to progress. So I have every confidence in him, even if he chose to replace half the team should we go up. I''m sure we''d fair much better this time around.[/quote]

Re: Fulham

I have watched every second of that fateful game at least six times and can hardly agree with a thing you say Robornio.  Such is football.

To accuse Worthington of being "gung-ho" for that one game after the image of general negativety that he had built up is IMHO incorrect.

Fulham, hardly a much better team. were in a position to play without fear.

 

We digress over past woes however. Your comments about Lambert are spot on. Hopefully.

 

[Robert N. LiM 4,246]

I think I''m with Mr Broadstairs about the Fulham game. Didn''t think we were especially gung-ho in the opening few minutes. Once we were 0-2 down we had to be attacking to get back in the game - it was always likely that would cause us problems at the back.

Funnily enough, I think the aspect of Blackpool we need to copy is not so much in player recruitment but in style of play. We got relegated - in my view - because Worthy was far too cautious, especially away from home, with the result that we didn''t win a single away game. Holloway''s attitude, that Blackpool are going to lose lots of games anyway, so they should try and win the winnable ones, is exactly what has worked for them this season. And fortunately, it is PL''s attitude too.

[Muddy funster 0]

s regards Fulham, we were unlucky not to be at least on level terms by half time - everyone forgets that because the 2nd half was so dire. We had a stonewall penalty waved away and who knows how momentum shifts games. I like to think in an alternative reality we went on to win 3-2 or 4-3 with a last second goal from Green who went up for the corner.

[TheGoogler 324]

I think we would see reinforcements brought in whatever division we''re in. Lambert doesn''t strike me as the sort to sit on his laurels and I think Championship or Premiership we''ll see 4/5/6 additions. I do agree, however, that the nucleus of this team should form the nucleus of our team next season, regardless of division.

[smooth 114]

I can''t see us changing dramatically from the model that Lambert has created.

If we do go up, I owuld like us to look at those hungry Championship players who are the one of the top players in their position in this league.

I do think that is what we did in other years and hence the wages balance and hopefully if we go down we have a team with the hunger not of jumping ship but to push back up at the first attempt.

I agree service the debt, but also be prepared to pay a little out on a few experienced heads. I do think in midfield we could do with that with a general in the holding role.

With Lambert and his foreigh connections I have no problem is going abroad to pick up some talent. But priority whatever happens this season is to get hungry players from this division that are at the top of their game.

[sgncfc 1,223]

The problems come in years 2-5 not in the first year. If you stay up the first year the expectation is that you progress so the temptation is to improve your squad to do that which means more in wages. If you get relegated, you lose most of your high earners anyway because they want to stay where they are.

Staying as a mid table Prem side still requires massive investment and is likely to lead to huge debts - look at Bolton, Blackburn, Fulham - all clubs running at huge losses.

Norwich can''t solve that problem on their own. Lambert''s model of using hungry and young(ish) players will work for a year or two but eventually we will come down again unless the investment follows.

Personally, I think an ambition to be a yoyo team is the only realistic one. Scraping an extra season in the Prem on a static budget is simply unrealistic.

[Mr.Carrow 376]

It would be a huge fillip for clubs like ours if Blackpool stay up and i hope they do it. As an earlier post mentioned, it`s their style of play as much as anything else which is refreshing and i think we have largely followed their example by trying to play our way out of what is a fairly physical division. This means that should we go up we are already playing a style more suited to the Prem, and have a core of players who are used to playing "proper" football who have the potential to make the step up.

I think that what Lambert has done so well is snaffle up "technical" players who were not regarded as physical enough by other clubs- Ward, Hooly (ok, not a Lambert signing, but given a pivitol role by him), Surman, Fox, maybe Lansbury. The one player i`m gutted we missed out on recently is Robbie Blake as i think he`d have linked up with those players brilliantly. These are the kinds of players we`ll sign if we go up and i`d be optimistic about staying up.

[. 0]

Our best player and match winner is Paul Lambert...Irrespective of who City sign, without him we would quickly revert to the club we''d become before he arrived. No amount of money will solve that problem and while eyes are currently averted... we remain very much a weak set up... both financially and spiritually.City were utterly humiliated last time under Smith... and I''m afraid nothing has changed at CR where it matters. McNally and co. are merely club employees and can walk any time given the right opening... and then what are we left with?

[Webbo118 0]

[quote user="Paul Cluckbert "]Our best player and match winner is Paul Lambert...

Irrespective of who City sign, without him we would quickly revert to the club we''d become before he arrived. No amount of money will solve that problem and while eyes are currently averted... we remain very much a weak set up... both financially and spiritually.

City were utterly humiliated last time under Smith... and I''m afraid nothing has changed at CR where it matters. McNally and co. are merely club employees and can walk any time given the right opening... and then what are we left with?


[/quote]

 

"Supporters" like you I guess

[Lineo 0]

Lambert knows what he''s doing, and after all, McNally & Bowkett''s long term plan was for Norwich to become a ''yo-yo'' club to restore some financial stability.It''s the squad''s togetherness and morale that has so so nearly got us two consecutive promotions, and it would be an unforgivable act to disrupt that completely - I would however welcome one or two new signings!

[TIL 1010 4,722]

The last time we were in The Premiership our relegation went a lot deeper than that awful day at Fulham.If you don''t win your first game until November(West Brom 3-2) and do not win away all season relegation is staring you in the face long before the last game of the season.

[ricardo 7,349]

[quote user="TIL 1010"]The last time we were in The Premiership our relegation went a lot deeper than that awful day at Fulham.If you don''t win your first game until November(West Brom 3-2) and do not win away all season relegation is staring you in the face long before the last game of the season.[/quote]I''m pretty sure it was Southampton, TIL.2-1 home win on 20th Nov 2004. (Damien Francis scored both our goals)

The WBA game was in Feb 2005

[. 0]

[quote user="Webbo118"]

[quote user="Paul Cluckbert "]Our best player and match winner is Paul Lambert...Irrespective of who City sign, without him we would quickly revert to the club we''d become before he arrived. No amount of money will solve that problem and while eyes are currently averted... we remain very much a weak set up... both financially and spiritually.City were utterly humiliated last time under Smith... and I''m afraid nothing has changed at CR where it matters. McNally and co. are merely club employees and can walk any time given the right opening... and then what are we left with?[/quote]

 

"Supporters" like you I guess

[/quote]If there had been more supporters like me around, this regime would have been forced out years ago.Sadly there were too many like you... short sighted and easily led. There might be food on the table to eat right now, but the cupboard is bare.

[YellowLittle1 0]

This is a brilliant thread actually a bit of intelligent debate rather then the "Bring Cody Back" threads.

I have to say, I think the Blackpool approach is spot on, I think the only problem with them is that they havn''t got the players. I think if we were to go up, we would probably have a better team then Blackpool did at the start of this season. Other then Charlie Adam and DJ Campbell they are a team full of lower Championship players who work hard and are solid and consistent, but without Adam and Campbell they do suffer because they haven''t got that spark.

I think we have more player who can win a game, Holt, Hoolahan, Lansbury, Crofts. And one of the other vital things about out team. Apart from maybe Hoolahan,but out of our probably most used 11 all of our players can attack and defend, that''s one of the reasons for our success, we have fullbacks bombing forward, Holt defending from the front and Crofts box to box.

I think if we go up, we are just cautious with all our buys, and that they are well thought out, I think that was Worthington''s problem, one of the worst things I think you can do is try and improve the team so much on a budget. We need to make sure we keep the winning formula of a successful previous season with a few improvements. One of the biggest mistakes Worthy made was getting rid of Mackay.

I think we can stay up under Lambert with a budget of £5 Million, I''m certain.

[Rudolph Hucker 0]

Nigel Worthington''s promotion season was brilliant; but what followed was a disaster. It wasn''t just his fault I surmise; we had pretty poor management generally.

 

It is fairly clear already who will not figure for PL next season, promotion or not. That said, I couldn''t see key characters being allowed to leave or retire: for Iwan or Malky read Drury.

 

I couldn''t see square pegs being put into round holes like Simon Charlton at centre-half or expensive overseas bolt-ons from Scandanavia.

 

What PL will do is take a happy squad with the likes of Lappin and Smith given a chance to push for places into a higher league and blend with some rough diamonds and some loans who are chomping at the bit to prove something.

 

The hardest thing for PL will be to manage in a league where adverse results will be more common but as a manager destined for the top I expect he would just happily play his underdog in attrition card and motivate that way. I only hope he gets the chance.

 

[Webbo118 0]

[quote user="Paul Cluckbert "][quote user="Webbo118"]

[quote user="Paul Cluckbert "]Our best player and match winner is Paul Lambert...

Irrespective of who City sign, without him we would quickly revert to the club we''d become before he arrived. No amount of money will solve that problem and while eyes are currently averted... we remain very much a weak set up... both financially and spiritually.

City were utterly humiliated last time under Smith... and I''m afraid nothing has changed at CR where it matters. McNally and co. are merely club employees and can walk any time given the right opening... and then what are we left with?


[/quote]

 

"Supporters" like you I guess

[/quote]

If there had been more supporters like me around, this regime would have been forced out years ago.

Sadly there were too many like you... short sighted and easily led. There might be food on the table to eat right now, but the cupboard is bare.
[/quote]

 

And then you woke up. What''s it like in your world of little dreams?