BIG BOB v, DELIA - THE VERDICT

[ricardo 7,394]

[quote user="Paul Cluckbert "][quote user="ricardo"][quote user="Paul Cluckbert "]As ever, the usual suspects are busy polishing their knobs while doing their utmost to silence any dissenting ''non party'' line voice. And I am accused of not taking things on here seriously? I wonder why that should be then? You pumped up little big men really aren''t that important you know.[/quote]Not really Cluck its time to turn your face to the future. It matters not one jot whether you are right or wrong. We loved Big Bob when he was successful and we hated him when it all went tits up. It will be ever thus with whoever owns or runs the club. If you want success in the modern game you have to play by the rules that are current at the time. Going back to standing in the rain with someone pissing up you leg is not going to cut it.I''''ve lived through all the era''s mentioned in Purples post and they''ve all been different and interesting in their own ways. No doubt people will be argueing about this long after you and I are pushing up dasies but NCFC will always be the heart of Norwich and Norfolk.[/quote]But Ricardo.. (and I consider you to be a genuinely respected poster), the title of the thread relates to the Chase and Smith tenures.I have moved on quite happily from those days, but I will not stand by and watch history being rewritten to suit the small minds of those who simply want to broadcast a convenient lie.Nowhere on here will you see any derogatory comment from me relating to anything from the Manager down... but to say we''re at the top of the league so all is forgiven is to allow the fantasists to perpetuate a false view of those wonderful Chase years. Robert Chase and the youngsters who base their opinion on what they hear from the older fan deserve better.[/quote]There''s arguments on both sides Cluck. We loved the European glory and those Prem years but there were few disentinting voices when he was finally moved aside. S&J have their faults and good points as with anyone who runs a football club but the fact remains that they own the club and will be ultimately judged by its success or failure. The Bob lovers and the Delia lovers are not going to be swayed by anything you or I say so my opinion is that its time to move on and let history be the final arbiter. They say history is written by the winners so I imagine both sides will find something to crow about and the arguement will continue to rage on.Purples post gave a brilliant summary of the events that shaped the last 50 or so years. Unfortunately I won''t be here to see what the next 50 bring  but I don''t doubt that Bob and Delia will still have their critcs and defenders even then.

[. 0]

[quote user="Harry"][quote user="Paul Cluckbert "]As ever, the usual suspects are busy polishing their knobs while doing their utmost to silence any dissenting ''non party'' line voice. And I am accused of not taking things on here seriously? I wonder why that should be then? You pumped up little big men really aren''t that important you know.[/quote]You can''t carry on a thread that has a reasoned arguement though can you?[quote user="Harry"][quote user="Paul Cluckbert "][quote

user="Harry"][quote user="Paul Cluckbert "]The irony is... Robert Chase

after years of unbelievable success hits a bad patch and is hounded out.

Delia Smith... years of decline... left in place with barely a whimper

from her carefully selected audience.Success

is relative and I don''t see winning Division Three as a ''plus''... as we

should never had been dragged down there in the first place.  Strange

how time distorts perception and how ''success'' is measured.Millions

in debt without a farthing in reserve... if City fail to bag the

stinking Premiership millions this season, what has fundamentally

changed since the old cook cynically pushed Chase out? At least Chase

left a manageable debt plus assets on and off the pitch which Smith has

since used to her advantage.Robert chase versus the cook? No contest.[/quote]We

shouldn''t have been "dragged down" into Division One when all the money

was hitting the Premier League and IMO if the Fat Control had invested into the Team and not land at this time we would have had a very different history.[/quote]Yoiu''re having a bloody laugh aren''t you?Of

course your beloved ''saviour'' has done just that hasn''t she? I suspect

you are basing your knowledge of the Chase years on what your mum told

you... either that or you were a hostage locked away in some Middle

Eastern prison during the time.[/quote]Where have I

ever said that Delia is the saviour of Norwich City? Geoffry Watling was

the saviour of Norwich City and that''s a fact.

I like most fans

haven''t liked what has happened to the Club since our last flirtation

with the Premier League but things are now looking up.

I like you and

many others saw good football played under Chase and even had a drink

and chat with him and Jimmy Jones in a pub on the way back from beating

Luton 2-0 in the League Cup and yes I yearn for the days when we could

finish 3rd in the Premiership and beat Bayern Munic in Europe but that

doesn''t alter the fact that the season after beating Bayern in Europe we

were relegated just as the Sky money was hitting the Premiership, even

you in your Fat Controller tinted glasses must be able to see that being

relegated at that time had a massive effect on the money we had coming

in compared to what would have come in had we not been relegated.

One last thing

Cluck, as I said in another thread to you I''m 48 years old, I''ve been

going to Carrow Road since 1969 and have my own mind and opinions so

wouldn''t have had to be told things by my Mum.[/quote][/quote]When it''s worthwhile doing so yes....

[nutty nigel 7,533]

[quote user="ricardo"]

The Bob lovers and the Delia lovers are not going to be swayed by anything you or I say so my opinion is that its time to move on and let history be the final arbiter. They say history is written by the winners so I imagine both sides will find something to crow about and the arguement will continue to rage on.

[/quote]

 

And now you''ve fallen for it Rickyyyyyy. This thread is about the changes in society and the knock on effect on to football. My thread, 18 months ago was about the changes in football and the knock on effect on to our club. In both cases Nora, Tangie and Babes have refused to comment on those changes preferring to stick their fingers in their ears and shout very loudly about Chase glory and Smith decline. Making comparisons between two very different things and inviting us to look to other clubs and other club owners in the game which are very temporary and don''t pass the test of time.

 

I wonder if the rest of the little gang from 18 months ago also have their fingers in their ears whilst they now sit in silence.

 

 

[Harry 0]

[quote user="Paul Cluckbert "][quote user="Harry"][quote user="Paul Cluckbert "]As ever, the usual suspects are busy polishing their knobs while doing their utmost to silence any dissenting ''non party'' line voice. And I am accused of not taking things on here seriously? I wonder why that should be then? You pumped up little big men really aren''t that important you know.[/quote]You can''t carry on a thread that has a reasoned arguement though can you?[quote user="Harry"][quote user="Paul Cluckbert "][quote

user="Harry"][quote user="Paul Cluckbert "]The irony is... Robert Chase

after years of unbelievable success hits a bad patch and is hounded out.

Delia Smith... years of decline... left in place with barely a whimper

from her carefully selected audience.Success

is relative and I don''t see winning Division Three as a ''plus''... as we

should never had been dragged down there in the first place.  Strange

how time distorts perception and how ''success'' is measured.Millions

in debt without a farthing in reserve... if City fail to bag the

stinking Premiership millions this season, what has fundamentally

changed since the old cook cynically pushed Chase out? At least Chase

left a manageable debt plus assets on and off the pitch which Smith has

since used to her advantage.Robert chase versus the cook? No contest.[/quote]We

shouldn''t have been "dragged down" into Division One when all the money

was hitting the Premier League and IMO if the Fat Control had invested into the Team and not land at this time we would have had a very different history.[/quote]Yoiu''re having a bloody laugh aren''t you?Of

course your beloved ''saviour'' has done just that hasn''t she? I suspect

you are basing your knowledge of the Chase years on what your mum told

you... either that or you were a hostage locked away in some Middle

Eastern prison during the time.[/quote]Where have I

ever said that Delia is the saviour of Norwich City? Geoffry Watling was

the saviour of Norwich City and that''s a fact.

I like most fans

haven''t liked what has happened to the Club since our last flirtation

with the Premier League but things are now looking up.

I like you and

many others saw good football played under Chase and even had a drink

and chat with him and Jimmy Jones in a pub on the way back from beating

Luton 2-0 in the League Cup and yes I yearn for the days when we could

finish 3rd in the Premiership and beat Bayern Munic in Europe but that

doesn''t alter the fact that the season after beating Bayern in Europe we

were relegated just as the Sky money was hitting the Premiership, even

you in your Fat Controller tinted glasses must be able to see that being

relegated at that time had a massive effect on the money we had coming

in compared to what would have come in had we not been relegated.

One last thing

Cluck, as I said in another thread to you I''m 48 years old, I''ve been

going to Carrow Road since 1969 and have my own mind and opinions so

wouldn''t have had to be told things by my Mum.[/quote][/quote]When it''s worthwhile doing so yes....[/quote]Another body swerve.

[BlyBlyBabes 0]

[quote user="ricardo"][quote user="BlyBlyBabes"] OK.

But this post is not about the future is it? It''s about the past.

And to forget/ignore/not learn from/misunderstand history is to condemn the club to repeating the same mistakes in the future.

There are multiple posts about the future on this forum to which one can contribute, but few about our history.

One love.

OTBC[/quote]No Bly, the post is about how the fortunes of our club relate to the times in which we live. It is about the dangers and the opportunities that are presented by the changes in the social fabric of British society. If you don''t see that in Purples post then I would suggest that you miss the point.The era of Big Bob was totally different to the era of S&J. To compare their successes and failures without the social context is a futile exercise.[/quote]

No Ricardo, I haven''t missed the central points of Purples article - entitled ''Big Bob v Delia - The Verdict.

And further, to quote your good self::

''The past is another country, its dead and gone.''

The future is for another post - and would involve as as a minimum base speculation and predictions about the future national (& local) social and economic fabrics.

Purple''s post was to contextualize the Big Bob/Delia issue against the social/economic background of the times AND TO PROMOTE FURTHER DISCUSSION ABOUT THIS PAST MATTER.

One love.

OTBC

[BlyBlyBabes 0]

[quote user="TIL 1010"][quote user="BlyBlyBabes"][quote user="TIL 1010"]

Tangy your love for the dictator holds no bounds and your selective references are to be admired.

You mention Chase not doing a share issue.This was the man assisted by Trevor Nichols who attempted to swallow up all the little shareholders to increase his shareholding but to pee those off he could not entice he held AGMs at lunchtimes.Hardly unlikely to do a share issue then was he?

Maybe as you have chapter and verse on the land deals you could also provide us with the figure that he paid his own company  for services provided to NCFC.

This does not place me in the Delia camp because you know my views full well on that aspect of our history.

[/quote] Dear oh dear. I see that the quality of discussion on this thread has suddenly nosedived. One hopes that this will be short-term. OTBC[/quote]

You may not agree with what i posted Bly but it is factually correct.I did not have to search websites as you cannot beat first hand knowledge.I cannot recall you being in the room with Chase,Trevor Nichols,Roy Blower or Mike Lloyd and myself when this amongst other issues were discussed when the rumblings of discontent first started back in the middle ninties.

As you say OTBC.....Old Tiresome Bly Crap.

[/quote]

CHASE OUT REMNANT alert........

CHASE OUT REMNANT alert........

OTBC

[nutty nigel 7,533]

[quote user="BlyBlyBabes"]

 Purple''s post was to contextualize the Big Bob/Delia issue against the social/economic background of the times AND TO PROMOTE FURTHER DISCUSSION ABOUT THIS PAST MATTER. One love. OTBC

[/quote]

Agreed.

 

But you, Tangie and Nora can''t do that. So why post at all?

 

Just like the changes within the game since the mid-nineties and the huge difference between Division One and the Premier League. Such things make direct comparisons useless. Just blindly chanting 10 years of glory and 13 years of decline, apart from being wrong, doesn''t help promote discussion does it?

Why does The Fat Controller v The Cook have to be a contest? Understanding the issues would help make the comparisons more useful. There are no winners or losers.

 

[PurpleCanary 5,558]

[quote user="BlyBlyBabes"]

 

No Ricardo, I haven''t missed the central points of Purples article - entitled ''Big Bob v Delia - The Verdict. And further, to quote your good self:: ''The past is another country, its dead and gone.'' The future is for another post - and would involve as as a minimum base speculation and predictions about the future national (& local) social and economic fabrics. Purple''s post was to contextualize the Big Bob/Delia issue against the social/economic background of the times AND TO PROMOTE FURTHER DISCUSSION ABOUT THIS PAST MATTER. One love. OTBC[/quote]

 

---

 

 

Wrong in pretty much every way bar one. The title of the OP, as I said, was deliberately misleading. It was not just about Chase v. S&J and certainly didn''t provide a verdict.

 

It went back way before Chase, to the pre-Watling era of the mid-50s when we were broke, couldn''t pay the players, had to be saved from extinction by Arthur South and others, and finished rock-bottom of the Third Division South (ie, we were equal 91st of 92 clubs) and under the current set-up would have been relegated out of the league.

 

Moreover, to argue that putting the current regime in a social and economic context is somehow only about the past is quite baffling. Smith and Jones and Bowkett and McNally, like all those in charge in the decades past, are here and now prey to those outside forces I have itemised and over which they have little or no control.

 

As other posters have said - and this was as much as anything the point of the OP - unless you understand the past and the present, you won''t have a hope of understanding the future. I''m not smart enough to be certain what economic and social changes are around the corner, but I do know we will be subject to them. You say so too:

 

"The future is for another post - and would involve as as a minimum base speculation and predictions about the future national (& local) social and economic fabrics."

 

I look forward to that post.

[TIL 1010 4,746]

[quote user="BlyBlyBabes"][quote user="TIL 1010"][quote user="BlyBlyBabes"][quote user="TIL 1010"]

Tangy your love for the dictator holds no bounds and your selective references are to be admired.

You mention Chase not doing a share issue.This was the man assisted by Trevor Nichols who attempted to swallow up all the little shareholders to increase his shareholding but to pee those off he could not entice he held AGMs at lunchtimes.Hardly unlikely to do a share issue then was he?

Maybe as you have chapter and verse on the land deals you could also provide us with the figure that he paid his own company  for services provided to NCFC.

This does not place me in the Delia camp because you know my views full well on that aspect of our history.

[/quote] Dear oh dear. I see that the quality of discussion on this thread has suddenly nosedived. One hopes that this will be short-term. OTBC[/quote]

You may not agree with what i posted Bly but it is factually correct.I did not have to search websites as you cannot beat first hand knowledge.I cannot recall you being in the room with Chase,Trevor Nichols,Roy Blower or Mike Lloyd and myself when this amongst other issues were discussed when the rumblings of discontent first started back in the middle ninties.

As you say OTBC.....Old Tiresome Bly Crap.

[/quote] CHASE OUT REMNANT alert........ CHASE OUT REMNANT alert........ OTBC[/quote]

You pathetic old twerp.

[TIL 1010 4,746]

[quote user="Paul Cluckbert "][quote user="ricardo"][quote user="Paul Cluckbert "]As ever, the usual suspects are busy polishing their knobs while doing their utmost to silence any dissenting ''non party'' line voice. And I am accused of not taking things on here seriously? I wonder why that should be then?

You pumped up little big men really aren''t that important you know.
[/quote]

Not really Cluck its time to turn your face to the future. It matters not one jot whether you are right or wrong. We loved Big Bob when he was successful and we hated him when it all went tits up. It will be ever thus with whoever owns or runs the club. If you want success in the modern game you have to play by the rules that are current at the time. Going back to standing in the rain with someone pissing up you leg is not going to cut it.

I''''ve lived through all the era''s mentioned in Purples post and they''ve all been different and interesting in their own ways. No doubt people will be argueing about this long after you and I are pushing up dasies but NCFC will always be the heart of Norwich and Norfolk.
[/quote]

But Ricardo.. (and I consider you to be a genuinely respected poster), the title of the thread relates to the Chase and Smith tenures.

I have moved on quite happily from those days, but I will not stand by and watch history being rewritten to suit the small minds of those who simply want to broadcast a convenient lie.

Nowhere on here will you see any derogatory comment from me relating to anything from the Manager down... but to say we''re at the top of the league so all is forgiven is to allow the fantasists to perpetuate a false view of those wonderful Chase years. Robert Chase and the youngsters who base their opinion on what they hear from the older fan deserve better.
[/quote]

" .....the title of the thread relates to the Chase and Smith.tenures.I have moved on quite happily from those days."

UNBELIEVABLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Tangible Fixed Assets anyone? 0]

[quote user="TIL 1010"]

You pathetic old twerp.

[/quote]

Twerp can be found in the non football section

[Ruddygore 0]

I bloody love the OP from purple canary! Bloody love it!

Clear, logical, factual and one of the best summaries of post war football league development you''ll read. Definite contender for post of the season, you just can''t argue with any of it.

But they can.

Anyway, I have nothing but respect for anyone who puts £12m and upwards of their own money into this club so that I and nearly 26,000 others can watch the football we are this season because it''s the business side of things that subsidise what we are watching. Unless you''ve got that much to put in I doubt if you can understand the sacrifice. I can''t.

What clubs like ours are facing now is a gulf. As in life the rich get richer (or more in debt and can service that debt) and the poor get poorer. Keeping within touch of the first group and distancing ourselves from the latter is vital.

In fifty years time people will be able to put the Big Bob v Delia into more context, perhaps it will be Big Bob & Delia v A.N. Other Batch of Owners and we might see that different owners did well and their best to cope with increasingly more demanding and swifter changing circumstances.

I don''t care, I bloody love Delia and I love our club warts and all, but mostly I love the history you can see every Saturday or midweek walking to the ground, in the older couples, the families and the younger generation of fans.

Well done purple canary. Cheers!

[nutty nigel 7,533]

I''m loving your posts now itstheruddyfuture[Y]

 

 

[BlyBlyBabes 0]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]

I''m loving your posts now itstheruddyfuture[Y]

 

Plod will never forgive you.

 

OTBC

 

 

[/quote]

[nutty nigel 7,533]

Get back to your tv Babes..

 

Look''s like your Spurs could do with a little help....