QPR Fan here

[Barclaybred 0]

Just give us tarrrabbitt and we will forgive any dodgy dealings :)

[dhickl 0]

[quote user="Superhoop"]

1. Faurlin has never been deemed as Ineligible by the FA. When we Signed him there was no rule by the Football league (only a Premier League rule) regarding third party ownership. When the third party rules came in QPR alerted the FA regarding the Faurlin transfer and were at no stage told that he was not allowed to play.

[/quote] 

The problem is that the football league did not have the rules, but they were covered by the FA rules. That is why the football league referred the issue to the FA, and the FA have charged QPR regarding "alleged existence of an agreement between the Club and a third party in respect of the player’s economic rights, and the alleged failure by the Club to notify The FA of that agreement before the player was registered to play in England in July 2009."

This has nothing to do with PL rules, it is to do with the breach of FA rules - which has a points penalty.

[quote user="Superhoop"]

6. The only problem we may have is if the FA can prove that we delibrately mislead them. Although this seems to be more of a personal charge against our chairman. How difficult it is to prove something like this I dont know. 

[/quote] 

The allegation is that the club put "false information" in "documents submitted to the FA".  It is not that someone said something false, so they can check the facts that are on the document.

[quote user="Superhoop"]

Hope that clears things up. Obviously no one knows for certain what the FA will do as they are rather unpredictable but personally I cant see how we can be docked enough points to miss out on Promotion, it would be a logistical nightmare for the FA. Imagine if we were docked 20-30 points and missed out on promotion we would have 28 days to appeal and if necessary drag this through the courts what would happen with the play offs and fixtures for next season.

[/quote] 

I believe they have decided the date of the hearing so that they can see how many point deduction they can apply without preventing QPR getting promoted.  That way other clubs can''t complain that they didn''t get a deduction, and QPR won''t take legal action, if they don''t get promorted, to either reverse the decision or get signifcant compensation if it goes on too long that they can''t put QPR in the PL.

[alysha 0]

 "I believe they have decided the date of the hearing so that they can see how many point deduction they can apply without preventing QPR getting promoted.  That way other clubs can''t complain that they didn''t get a deduction, and QPR won''t take legal action, if they don''t get promorted, to either reverse the decision or get signifcant compensation if it goes on too long that they can''t put QPR in the PL."

 

The only problem is - if they do decide a points deduction, but one of which will ensure they still get promoted, it surely has to make sense in a points deduction for each game, because what sort of precedent would it set if QPR got a points deduction which worked out to be 0.125 (random number of top of my head) points deduction for each game he had played for example - they going to use that figure for a team who commits the same offence? It has to make sense in terms of the points deduction being broken down and making sense, not just "11 points will do it", they have to set out how they came up with that figure to ensure consistency through punishments surely? Then again this is FA so probably not.

 

Hope that made sense lol

 

 

[sgncfc 1,221]

Unlike most of you, and especially unlike the OP, I think Qpr will definitely get a points deduction - it''s just a question of how many which will depend on the supposed seriousness of the offence. We have absolutely no idea how that will be viewed.

There is legal precedent for a deduction in the Football League (though not in the FA Premier League) so I cannot see any way they will escape without one.

I agree that the timing of the hearing is designed so that they can establish the level of punishment without affecting the promotion issue - unless QPR suddenly collapse and it gets very close.

If I had to bet on it, I would say a 10 point deduction is likely, which might well cost them the title but won''t stop them going up.

[shefcanary 2,377]

Alysha is right about the points per game deduction but I beleive it only relates to the games this season between two bits of correspondence between QPR and the FL.  That is when the FL confirmed he was finally eligible to play, until the point when QPR then filed some documentation that basically lied about circumstances behind the original transfer (or was the chronology the other way round).  Anyway as I understand it in the relevant period Faurlin only played 3-4 matches and it will be the points won in those games that they would lose.  I have a feeling it will be about 10 points worth which will not be enough to stop them getting promoted.

[PurpleCanary 5,553]

A couple of observations from someone who doesn''t have a clue what the outcome will be but based, for the sake of argument, on QPR being found guilty of something serious that can be shown to have affected their performance this season:

 

1. The tribunal is under the auspices of the FA but headed by an independent QC specialising in financial cases. Whatever one thinks of lawyers,[:@] they do have a reputation to maintain. The verdict/punishment in the West Ham case was widely seen as a cop-out. This QC may be keen to avoid that accusation.

 

2. Any financial penalty will be seen as a cop-out. Any penalty that keeps QPR in the top two will be seen as a cop-out. However a points penalty that relegated QPR into the play-offs might be a cute piece of natural justice. QPR would still have a chance of promotion. Meanwhile no other club would have cause for complaint (apart possibly from whoever met QPR in the play-offs). The top six would be the same, just in a different order.

 

[paul moy 235]

[quote user="PurpleCanary"]

A couple of observations from someone who doesn''t have a clue what the outcome will be but based, for the sake of argument, on QPR being found guilty of something serious that can be shown to have affected their performance this season:

 

1. The tribunal is under the auspices of the FA but headed by an independent QC specialising in financial cases. Whatever one thinks of lawyers,[:@] they do have a reputation to maintain. The verdict/punishment in the West Ham case was widely seen as a cop-out. This QC may be keen to avoid that accusation.

 

2. Any financial penalty will be seen as a cop-out. Any penalty that keeps QPR in the top two will be seen as a cop-out. However a points penalty that relegated QPR into the play-offs might be a cute piece of natural justice. QPR would still have a chance of promotion. Meanwhile no other club would have cause for complaint (apart possibly from whoever met QPR in the play-offs). The top six would be the same, just in a different order.

 

[/quote]

I think that the team that finishes seventh, and this season''s and last season''s relegated teams might have something to say about that. Why should QPR still have a chance of promotion when they have had an ineligible player for over a season,  which surely constitutes a deduction of 3 points per game. They would have been relegated last season if the issue had been known before this season so the only fair outcome is to relegate them this season IMO. Perhaps the FA could do Sheff Utd a favour in light of the Tevez affair and keep them up at the expense of QPR.

[The gut 0]

I read the opening paragraph only as I don''t care about any of the rest. All I am intereted in is Norwich getting promoted. It certainly wouldn''t take the shine off promotion for me, of course I would rather it was all our own work, but..........at the end of the day.........promotion, who cares. I also wouldn''t be able to stop myself form laughing cos of Colin. I do like him quite a bit as it goes but I like him even more when he''s moaning cos he feels hard done by. "You''ve Been Framed" would be so much funnier if he featured in every calamity.

[PurpleCanary 5,553]

[quote user="paul moy"][quote user="PurpleCanary"]

A couple of observations from someone who doesn''t have a clue what the outcome will be but based, for the sake of argument, on QPR being found guilty of something serious that can be shown to have affected their performance this season:

 

1. The tribunal is under the auspices of the FA but headed by an independent QC specialising in financial cases. Whatever one thinks of lawyers,[:@] they do have a reputation to maintain. The verdict/punishment in the West Ham case was widely seen as a cop-out. This QC may be keen to avoid that accusation.

 

2. Any financial penalty will be seen as a cop-out. Any penalty that keeps QPR in the top two will be seen as a cop-out. However a points penalty that relegated QPR into the play-offs might be a cute piece of natural justice. QPR would still have a chance of promotion. Meanwhile no other club would have cause for complaint (apart possibly from whoever met QPR in the play-offs). The top six would be the same, just in a different order.

 

[/quote]

I think that the team that finishes seventh, and this season''s and last season''s relegated teams might have something to say about that. Why should QPR still have a chance of promotion when they have had an ineligible player for over a season,  which surely constitutes a deduction of 3 points per game. They would have been relegated last season if the issue had been known before this season so the only fair outcome is to relegate them this season IMO. Perhaps the FA could do Sheff Utd a favour in light of the Tevez affair and keep them up at the expense of QPR.

[/quote]

 

---

 

Paul, you''re stating as a fact they''ve fielded an ineligible player for more than a season. Of course IF that is true then the punishment should be extremely serious and they certainly should be penalised out of any chance of promotion. But it isn''t at all yet clear that is the case.

 

My suggested punishment is appropriate if it turns out QPR have been naughty but not as naughty as you say they''ve been.

 

[priceyrice 123]

They played an ineligable player for 6 games, 3 points a game, so min of 18 points deduction we are looking at if found guilty on this level. This is just one of the many charges against so there could be huge implications.All this talk about the FA and football league waiting till the end of the season so they can give a points deduction while still allowing them to be promoted is the biggest load of rubbish i have heard, along with those who say the FA want another London club in the prem. Whatever people think of the FA it doesn''t ride above the law, they have rules in place and it will be up for an independent QC to oversee the case.The thing that worries me is that it could be strung on over a long period as QPR will appeal if they lose. I think the most likely thing we will see is a points deduction next year.I am a law student so got access to case materials, i am gonna have a look over the cases of those teams who had points deducted this week, see if their are any similarities. QPR financial muscle is not going to make much of a difference, most football clubs can afford a top legal team to work with them on these cases. I am a bit worried QPR deny all charges so maybe there is some misunderstanding, however if that is the case they could still be done for negligence and will still face a severe punishment

[ricardo 7,328]

[quote user="priceyrice"]They played an ineligable player for 6 games, 3 points a game, so min of 18 points deduction we are looking at if found guilty on this level. This is just one of the many charges against so there could be huge implications.All this talk about the FA and football league waiting till the end of the season so they can give a points deduction while still allowing them to be promoted is the biggest load of rubbish i have heard, along with those who say the FA want another London club in the prem. Whatever people think of the FA it doesn''t ride above the law, they have rules in place and it will be up for an independent QC to oversee the case.The thing that worries me is that it could be strung on over a long period as QPR will appeal if they lose. I think the most likely thing we will see is a points deduction next year.I am a law student so got access to case materials, i am gonna have a look over the cases of those teams who had points deducted this week, see if their are any similarities. QPR financial muscle is not going to make much of a difference, most football clubs can afford a top legal team to work with them on these cases. I am a bit worried QPR deny all charges so maybe there is some misunderstanding, however if that is the case they could still be done for negligence and will still face a severe punishment[/quote]I agree with most of what you say but I can''t see any possibility of a points deduction being held over until next year. The offences, if any and if proved took place in the football league so any punishment will take place under their jurisdiction. It would be very sad for QPR fans if they miss out as for whatever the rights and wrongs of the case, it is nothing to do with them. However from what I have read on this matter it would seem the rules stipulate an 18 point deduction if the charges are proved.

[paul moy 235]

[quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="paul moy"][quote user="PurpleCanary"]

A couple of observations from someone who doesn''t have a clue what the outcome will be but based, for the sake of argument, on QPR being found guilty of something serious that can be shown to have affected their performance this season:

 

1. The tribunal is under the auspices of the FA but headed by an independent QC specialising in financial cases. Whatever one thinks of lawyers,[:@] they do have a reputation to maintain. The verdict/punishment in the West Ham case was widely seen as a cop-out. This QC may be keen to avoid that accusation.

 

2. Any financial penalty will be seen as a cop-out. Any penalty that keeps QPR in the top two will be seen as a cop-out. However a points penalty that relegated QPR into the play-offs might be a cute piece of natural justice. QPR would still have a chance of promotion. Meanwhile no other club would have cause for complaint (apart possibly from whoever met QPR in the play-offs). The top six would be the same, just in a different order.

 

[/quote]

I think that the team that finishes seventh, and this season''s and last season''s relegated teams might have something to say about that. Why should QPR still have a chance of promotion when they have had an ineligible player for over a season,  which surely constitutes a deduction of 3 points per game. They would have been relegated last season if the issue had been known before this season so the only fair outcome is to relegate them this season IMO. Perhaps the FA could do Sheff Utd a favour in light of the Tevez affair and keep them up at the expense of QPR.

[/quote]

 

---

 

Paul, you''re stating as a fact they''ve fielded an ineligible player for more than a season. Of course IF that is true then the punishment should be extremely serious and they certainly should be penalised out of any chance of promotion. But it isn''t at all yet clear that is the case.

 

My suggested punishment is appropriate if it turns out QPR have been naughty but not as naughty as you say they''ve been.

 

[/quote]

Of course the penalty will depend on whether Faurlin was ineligible, but it would certainly appear that he was by virtue of his ''hidden'' third party ownership in order to facilitate his registration in 2009. It seems a pretty clear cut case based on what dhickl says above in his first point.

[priceyrice 123]

[quote user="ricardo"][quote user="priceyrice"]They played an ineligable player for 6 games, 3 points a game, so min of 18 points deduction we are looking at if found guilty on this level. This is just one of the many charges against so there could be huge implications.All this talk about the FA and football league waiting till the end of the season so they can give a points deduction while still allowing them to be promoted is the biggest load of rubbish i have heard, along with those who say the FA want another London club in the prem. Whatever people think of the FA it doesn''t ride above the law, they have rules in place and it will be up for an independent QC to oversee the case.The thing that worries me is that it could be strung on over a long period as QPR will appeal if they lose. I think the most likely thing we will see is a points deduction next year.I am a law student so got access to case materials, i am gonna have a look over the cases of those teams who had points deducted this week, see if their are any similarities. QPR financial muscle is not going to make much of a difference, most football clubs can afford a top legal team to work with them on these cases. I am a bit worried QPR deny all charges so maybe there is some misunderstanding, however if that is the case they could still be done for negligence and will still face a severe punishment[/quote]I agree with most of what you say but I can''t see any possibility of a points deduction being held over until next year. The offences, if any and if proved took place in the football league so any punishment will take place under their jurisdiction. It would be very sad for QPR fans if they miss out as for whatever the rights and wrongs of the case, it is nothing to do with them. However from what I have read on this matter it would seem the rules stipulate an 18 point deduction if the charges are proved.

[/quote]

You are

most likely right about the points being deducted next year, it''s just the

charges relate to something that happened last year, unlike the West Ham

situation, so there has not been any real direct impact on the clubs around

them this year, meaning those clubs wouldn''t have the same chance of suing for

compensation as Shef Utd did against West Ham. Therefore their isn''t as much

pressure on the FA/FL to make sure the punishment effects them this season. The

offences did take place under the FL, but they have called for the FA to assist

them in the case, so I assume that gives the FA jurisdiction to make any

punishment effective in any league.

However the fact the FA have called for the trial just before the end of the

season does seem to suggest that they want to punish them this season and make

a real example to prevent any such thing happening again.

I am quite certain we will see a point’s deduction in this situation. I think

it will be very harsh on the QPR squad and fans and they deserve to be where

they are on this seasons performance, but if you break such serious rules you

have to accept the punishment- you would still convict a murderer even if you

found out about the crime 30 years later (ha, I know that is a bit of an

extreme analogy, but it shows my point)

One thing I know for certain is that with this situation going on, Norwich are

a good bet at large odds (around 18/1) when I last looked to win the league.

[Pabs 0]

Superhoop - rather than becoming ''increasingly desperate'' I think you will find most Norwich fans don''t really care about your ''plight.''

All we are interested in is staying above the other 22 teams in the division and getting promotion. I have given the whole thing about two minutes thought and then decided you would get a fine, and that we need to get maybe 12 points now for promotion, and you will probably finish 10 above us.

Look forward to playing you in the Prem in 2011/12.

[dhickl 0]

[quote user="alysha"]

The only problem is - if they do decide a points deduction, but one of which will ensure they still get promoted, it surely has to make sense in a points deduction for each game

[/quote]

That would be the case if they were charged with fielding an inelligable player, but they are not.  They are charged with failing to notify the FA of the 3rd party deal.  This means that the FA can put whatever points deduction they want, and it doesn''t have to be per game.

[Block E Buh 0]

I think the FA just sense a nice big fine to fill their coffers to help pay Capello. I wouldn''t of thought it will be anything more.

[@jayncfc 0]

If Rooney gets a two match ban for swearing then I reckon QPR will be playing in league two next season.

[Scarlet pimple 0]

I here down here in London, the straw growers around Naaaarich are doing a roaring trade.

[Superhoop 0]

[quote user="Pabs"]Superhoop - rather than becoming ''increasingly desperate'' I think you will find most Norwich fans don''t really care about your ''plight.'' All we are interested in is staying above the other 22 teams in the division and getting promotion. I have given the whole thing about two minutes thought and then decided you would get a fine, and that we need to get maybe 12 points now for promotion, and you will probably finish 10 above us. Look forward to playing you in the Prem in 2011/12.[/quote]

 

Talking of becoming increasingly desperate heres Dave Jones. http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/13013386.stm

The first of the competing managers to talk about our charges. I expect the noise from Norwich and Wales will only get louder the closer we get to the FA hearing. Hopefully Lambert has a bit more class than to start spouting off. I expected it from that boring tool Jones.

[Alex Moss 2,165]

[quote user="Superhoop"]

[quote user="Pabs"]Superhoop - rather than becoming ''increasingly desperate'' I think you will find most Norwich fans don''t really care about your ''plight.'' All we are interested in is staying above the other 22 teams in the division and getting promotion. I have given the whole thing about two minutes thought and then decided you would get a fine, and that we need to get maybe 12 points now for promotion, and you will probably finish 10 above us. Look forward to playing you in the Prem in 2011/12.[/quote]

 

Talking of becoming increasingly desperate heres Dave Jones. http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/13013386.stm

The first of the competing managers to talk about our charges. I expect the noise from Norwich and Wales will only get louder the closer we get to the FA hearing. Hopefully Lambert has a bit more class than to start spouting off. I expected it from that boring tool Jones.

[/quote]

After putting a wee bit of pressure on the Football League to put there feet down, Jones contradicts himself at the end, which makes himself look a little silly I have to say. PL won''t get involved, I''m sure of that - He''s a gent and moaning like a little child who''s had his lolly taken away from him is certainly not his style. He''s concerned only with what NCFC do, not what QPR do. You''ll get away with it, but rival managers publically moaning about it won''t help your case I feel (though it might go the other way).

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 3,773]

[quote user="Superhoop"]

[quote user="Pabs"]Superhoop - rather than becoming ''increasingly desperate'' I think you will find most Norwich fans don''t really care about your ''plight.'' All we are interested in is staying above the other 22 teams in the division and getting promotion. I have given the whole thing about two minutes thought and then decided you would get a fine, and that we need to get maybe 12 points now for promotion, and you will probably finish 10 above us. Look forward to playing you in the Prem in 2011/12.[/quote]

 

Talking of becoming increasingly desperate heres Dave Jones. http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/13013386.stm

The first of the competing managers to talk about our charges. I expect the noise from Norwich and Wales will only get louder the closer we get to the FA hearing. Hopefully Lambert has a bit more class than to start spouting off. I expected it from that boring tool Jones.

[/quote]Can''t see Lambert shooting his mouth off about it. He very rarely says anything more than the bare minimum about anything.Besides, hopefully we''ll still be in second come the hearing, and our victory at home to Coventry on the final day of the season will make any punishment QPR get totally meaningless.

[Mister Chops 7]

[quote user="Superhoop"]

Thanks for the comments I was expecting some abuse. [:)]

Yes we are bricking it. The problem is you never know with the FA, although I dont think they would be so stupid to screw up the whole Promotion/play off picture the day before the end of the season.

 [/quote]

As long as it means your boys go into the match against Cardiff knowing they may still need all 3 points, I don''t mind.

[priceyrice 123]

O i just read what Jones said, from Superhop (or whatever your name is) comment i was expecting him to be winging. He hasnt really said anything, he was obviously asked a question by a reporter about the QPR situation and answered it by claiming that from what he has read it looks like they should get in trouble, but he and Cardiff need to focus on thier game and not ours- there is nothign wrong with that i dont thinkWhen LOambert was asked the same question he did batter it away and just said he didn''t know what was going on so therefore couldn''t comment, however i don''t think what Jones said was bad in anyway, not like Warnock when calling for points deduction for West Ham.I am actually quite surprised no club has come out and winged about QPR, guess its because none if it has anything to do with this season and all charges relate to last year