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Superhoop

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Ive been reading this message board on and off for a few months and I have noticed that a lot of posters are coming across as increasingly desperate regarding our FA Charges. I understand why to a certain extent as the prize of reaching the Premier league is such a great one. So I thought I would try to add a few facts to the debate.

1. Faurlin has never been deemed as Ineligible by the FA. When we Signed him there was no rule by the Football league (only a Premier League rule) regarding third party ownership. When the third party rules came in QPR alerted the FA regarding the Faurlin transfer and were at no stage told that he was not allowed to play.

2. The unlicensed agent was licensed by FIFA just not by the FA. Administritive error. Leeds and Barnsley I think recieved small fines for this fairly recently.

3. I read someone comparing this to the Luton case where they were docked 30 points. 20 of those points were for issues relating to going into and out of administration. The other 10 points were for something like 20 odd charges of financial irregularities. Our charges are a) not as serious and b) not as many.

4. I also read on here someone complaining that if Hereford and Torquay are being deducted points then so should QPR. The difference here is both players were ineligiable the paperwork wasnt completed in time. I believe the FA rules state that if a player is not registered with the club he will be deducted 3 points for each game he plays in and 1 for a defeat or loss. Again we have not been charged with fielding an inelligiable palyer so this punishment will not apply to us.

5. We also have to take into account that no one, as far as I am aware, has been docked points in the past for the issues that we have been charged on.

6. The only problem we may have is if the FA can prove that we delibrately mislead them. Although this seems to be more of a personal charge against our chairman. How difficult it is to prove something like this I dont know. 

Hope that clears things up. Obviously no one knows for certain what the FA will do as they are rather unpredictable but personally I cant see how we can be docked enough points to miss out on Promotion, it would be a logistical nightmare for the FA. Imagine if we were docked 20-30 points and missed out on promotion we would have 28 days to appeal and if necessary drag this through the courts what would happen with the play offs and fixtures for next season.

Well done on a great season. Hope you can join us in the Premier league (in second place of courseWink [;)] ). Much rather you lot went up than one of the sheep fiddlers.

Good luck against Swansea.

 

 

 

 

 

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Lots of interesting facts there, from a personal point of view I don''t really care how we get promoted, but if we were to win the league because you had been docked points then it would be a little hollow, because QPR, over the course of the whole season have deserved it.But I tell you, if this set of circumstances were Norwich''s and not yours, I would be cacking myself, never underestimate the ability of the FA to make completely off the wall decisions![:)]

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I hope you don''t get points deducted.You''ve been the best team and deserve to win the league.The main people that get shat on if you lose points are the fans.Can''t see any points deduction wouldn''t be fair in my eyes.

Good luck in the premier league,hope we join you :)

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Nice to see a fair and balanced argument from "the other side".

For what its worth, I think QPR have been far and away the best team in the League this year and deserve to go up (unless we finish 3rd!)

Even if Colin is the most hated man in football it will be entertaining seeing his whining on MOTD again!

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well we will see hope you don''t get point deduction as it wouldn''t be fair to how you have played... You deserve to go up and we WILL follow you haha

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Just the way I see it mate. As I say its understandable im sure a lot of our forums would be similar if we were in the same position. But I cant see how our promotion rivals can complain too much as we havent gained an unfair advantage as Faurlin has never been deemed inelligiable. 

 

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I would have thought it commonsense to assume that if a rule on third party ownership was implemented in the Premier League then this would be applied throughout the Football League. QPR are guilty of not checking whether this was a fact with the FA at the time of signing Faurlin, and also of trying to cover up the nature of his ownership.  This was at best negligent and at worst, fraud.

On top of this, QPR have compounded the issue by allegedly making fraudulent statements in Faurlin''s new contract.  If I were a QPR fan I would be very worried.

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Who''s more increasingly desperate?

Us, or the QPR fans who are trying to convince themselves that all is well, and accusing us of being ''increasingly desperate.''

Either way, it doesn''t bother me, because at the very least it means QPR have got to give everything in every game between now and the end of the season. Take some points off Cardiff please.

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You have to admit though, there would be a certain amount of karma, considering Warnock''s whining when the shoe was on the other foot.

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[quote user="paul moy"]

I would have thought it commonsense to assume that if a rule on third party ownership was implemented in the Premier League then this would be applied throughout the Football League. QPR are guilty of not checking whether this was a fact with the FA at the time of signing Faurlin, and also of trying to cover up the nature of his ownership.  This was at best negligent and at worst, fraud.

On top of this, QPR have compounded the issue by allegedly making fraudulent statements in Faurlin''s new contract.  If I were a QPR fan I would be very worried.

[/quote]

No - theyre separate leagues, separate rules.  The FL have subsequently introduced the same rule but you cannot be punished for something retrospectively unless you further break that rule later on

 

 

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Thanks for the comments I was expecting some abuse. [:)]

Yes we are bricking it. The problem is you never know with the FA, although I dont think they would be so stupid to screw up the whole Promotion/play off picture the day before the end of the season.

 

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"Desperate"??. We just want to see justice done, if any club has breached rules, they deserve the accroding punishment.

The fact that you''ve taken time to sit down and writre this essay on what you believe to be the fact shows that your''e panicing?!.....who knows else they will find???

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[quote user="Snakepit Lass"]a little bit sad if you don''t mind me saying that your attendance is a little low for where you are in league only 14,535 on monday nite[/quote]

Proving what??  Theyre a London club and a very short distance from Chelsea and Fulham - both established Prem clubs.  And we know the majority of the ''Mocknees'' go glory hunting so would rather be seen with ''SuperBlues'' than the ''SuperHoops'' [;)]

Part of the reason why we get such big gates is no local competition.  Dont assume every season ticket holder is primarily a Norwich fan - they may enjoy going to games and have Norwich as their 2nd side - but primarily support Man U, Arsenal, Chelsea, Barcelona or whoever.  Thats not to knock them - theyll cheer every goal we score (unless its against their primary side) and probably join in the chants as well.

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[quote user="Superhoop"]

Thanks for the comments I was expecting some abuse. [:)]

Yes we are bricking it. The problem is you never know with the FA, although I dont think they would be so stupid to screw up the whole Promotion/play off picture the day before the end of the season.

 

[/quote]But surely that would be better than not dealing with it correctly and it dragging on over the summer? And the FA possibly leaving themselves open to litigation from a club who could have gone up to the Premiership if the proper punishment was handed out?Not wanting to worry you further than you already are (But I will anyway!) but if there was no case to answer then no hearing required surely? Really wouldn''t want to be in your shoes right now lol.

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Yes the attendance was dissapointing, however we are in an error with 5 london premiership clubs (2 of them on our doorstep) and at least another 8 in the lower leagues.

Our ground only holds 18,000 there was only about 300 away fans so that left about 1500 empty seats the others that didnt sell were all restricted view. All our other allocations home and away are sold out for the rest of the season. Lets just hope we get to see us lift a trophy at some stage.

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fair play to you, fan base is important! as you can see from ours lol 26,552 last game... i know that cos every game i guess the attendance and i was only 52 people out haha i know im sad!

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Superhoop - think the key issue here is that you have broken several rules, not just once but several times.  I think that youve been by far and away the best side in the league (or at least the most consistent) but if the boot was on the other foot you (and Warnock) would be screaming for a points deduction (as Warnock did in the whole West Ham/Tevez affair)

 

Personally I think you''ll still get promoted - and I think the whole matter should have been dealt with by now.  But I do wonder if the FA are looking to see what happens with the promotion race for 2nd - if they can safely dock you points so that you are promoted (or possibly even remain as champions) then I think they will do that, but its likely to be a fine if you implode and almost get caught.  Its not just about you - its about other teams that may do this in future, and any punishment now will be seen as a precedent

Some of your charges are similar to Lutons - its just a case of how many points were deducted for each offence. 

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[quote user="Superhoop"]

Just the way I see it mate. As I say its understandable im sure a lot of our forums would be similar if we were in the same position. But I cant see how our promotion rivals can complain too much as we havent gained an unfair advantage as Faurlin has never been deemed inelligiable. 

 

[/quote]

 

I think you make your point very well Mr Hoop, and I also think there is more chance of Mars crashing into Carrow Road tomorrow than there is of the FA/FL docking you points. It''s nice to see a reasoned view. I''m sure you can understand our interest.

I''ve looked through the decisions on Luton and Histon, which did result in points beng docked, and can''t really see many similarities (sadly!)

Histon pleading guilty to "submitting misleading financial information". This was to do with VAT returns, which you are largely banged to rights over. Histon didn''t even appeal.

Luton was more about payments to agents and not following league rules,  the QC in his summing up said the club had been run with "a flagrant disregard for the regulations laid down to protect the game", and was the result of a bit of whislte blowing by Mike Newell.

Where a complex argument exisits (as there was with West Ham) there will be plenty of wriggling room available to the undoubted very expensive Barrister that QPR would put on this.

I suspect a fairly significant fine, to be paid out of Premier League income, so I wouldnt lose too much sleep.    

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I will pretend I didnt read the other posters comments above about how worried we should be and just keep reading yours. [;)]

I also cant see any similarities in the Luton and Histon cases. I think the worst we can expect is a token gesture points deduction that will not have any impact on the league placings, that way the FA appear to be taken a firm stance and will also set a precedent to other clubs.

Anyway heres hoping we are both  [B] [<:o)] on May 7th.

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[quote user="Superhoop"]

I will pretend I didnt read the other posters comments above about how worried we should be and just keep reading yours. [;)]

I also cant see any similarities in the Luton and Histon cases. I think the worst we can expect is a token gesture points deduction that will not have any impact on the league placings, that way the FA appear to be taken a firm stance and will also set a precedent to other clubs.

Anyway heres hoping we are both  [B] [<:o)] on May 7th.

[/quote]I shall carry on regardless [;)]So, you''re Cardiff and finish in third place on the last day, QPR have won the league and been fined a mere fraction of the 90 million quid promotion is reported to be worth. Would you feel justice had been done?This is, of course, assuming you''re guilty, and only your chairman and board really know that.Muhahahahahahaha.[:P]

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I can''t see any points being deducted...but i can see possibly a transfer ban being imposed for a while which would potentially be even more damaging.

 

The big point seems they were given the opportunity to put things straight and then proceeded to issue further improper documants to the FA/FL knowing them to be so. That cannot be allowed to happen without a hefty punishment IMHO and financial penalties serve no purpose when the owners are so wealthy.

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[quote user="morty"][quote user="Superhoop"]

Thanks for the comments I was expecting some abuse. [:)]

Yes we are bricking it. The problem is you never know with the FA, although I dont think they would be so stupid to screw up the whole Promotion/play off picture the day before the end of the season.

 

[/quote]

But surely that would be better than not dealing with it correctly and it dragging on over the summer? And the FA possibly leaving themselves open to litigation from a club who could have gone up to the Premiership if the proper punishment was handed out?

Not wanting to worry you further than you already are (But I will anyway!) but if there was no case to answer then no hearing required surely?

Really wouldn''t want to be in your shoes right now lol.
[/quote]

 

Im sure there is a case to answer, especially as our chairman (Paladini) is as dodgy as they come.

All im saying is that I dont think our alleged crime fits the punishment of docked points as we havent gained an unfair advantage over other teams. Also im pretty sure that its in the FA''s interests to take this to a hearing as they are likely to hit us with a large fine as they know we have the money to pay it.

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I seem to recall that the West Ham fans were taken in consideration when deciding their case. I suppose yours won''t be such an issue... wherever they are?

PS Is that muppet with the mexican hat still happily waving his rattle at your gaff?

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[quote user="Barclay hero"][quote user="paul moy"]

I would have thought it commonsense to assume that if a rule on third party ownership was implemented in the Premier League then this would be applied throughout the Football League. QPR are guilty of not checking whether this was a fact with the FA at the time of signing Faurlin, and also of trying to cover up the nature of his ownership.  This was at best negligent and at worst, fraud.

On top of this, QPR have compounded the issue by allegedly making fraudulent statements in Faurlin''s new contract.  If I were a QPR fan I would be very worried.

[/quote]

No - theyre separate leagues, separate rules.  The FL have subsequently introduced the same rule but you cannot be punished for something retrospectively unless you further break that rule later on

 

 

[/quote]

Then it begs the question as to why QPR were not honest as to Faurlin''s ownership, doesn''t it ? It can only be that they thought that the FA would not allow them to sign him under those circumstances, so they hid the details. How anybody can really believe though that third party ownership would be allowed throughout the rest of English football after the Prem banned it beggars belief. It''s laughable !! [:D]

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[quote user="Superhoop"]

Ive been reading this message board on and off for a few months and I have noticed that a lot of posters are coming across as increasingly desperate regarding our FA Charges. I understand why to a certain extent as the prize of reaching the Premier league is such a great one. So I thought I would try to add a few facts to the debate.

1. Faurlin has never been deemed as Ineligible by the FA. When we Signed him there was no rule by the Football league (only a Premier League rule) regarding third party ownership. When the third party rules came in QPR alerted the FA regarding the Faurlin transfer and were at no stage told that he was not allowed to play.

2. The unlicensed agent was licensed by FIFA just not by the FA. Administritive error. Leeds and Barnsley I think recieved small fines for this fairly recently.

3. I read someone comparing this to the Luton case where they were docked 30 points. 20 of those points were for issues relating to going into and out of administration. The other 10 points were for something like 20 odd charges of financial irregularities. Our charges are a) not as serious and b) not as many.

4. I also read on here someone complaining that if Hereford and Torquay are being deducted points then so should QPR. The difference here is both players were ineligiable the paperwork wasnt completed in time. I believe the FA rules state that if a player is not registered with the club he will be deducted 3 points for each game he plays in and 1 for a defeat or loss. Again we have not been charged with fielding an inelligiable palyer so this punishment will not apply to us.

5. We also have to take into account that no one, as far as I am aware, has been docked points in the past for the issues that we have been charged on.

6. The only problem we may have is if the FA can prove that we delibrately mislead them. Although this seems to be more of a personal charge against our chairman. How difficult it is to prove something like this I dont know. 

Hope that clears things up. Obviously no one knows for certain what the FA will do as they are rather unpredictable but personally I cant see how we can be docked enough points to miss out on Promotion, it would be a logistical nightmare for the FA. Imagine if we were docked 20-30 points and missed out on promotion we would have 28 days to appeal and if necessary drag this through the courts what would happen with the play offs and fixtures for next season.

Well done on a great season. Hope you can join us in the Premier league (in second place of courseWink [;)] ). Much rather you lot went up than one of the sheep fiddlers.

Good luck against Swansea.

 

 

 

 

 

[/quote]That imo is the crux of QPR''s defence... ignorance of the rule.  And making out they only thought it applied to the Prem League.  Whatever it''s dressed up is ignorance ever an excuse?

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[quote user="The ſhroud of Turin"][quote user="Superhoop"]

Ive been reading this message board on and off for a few months and I have noticed that a lot of posters are coming across as increasingly desperate regarding our FA Charges. I understand why to a certain extent as the prize of reaching the Premier league is such a great one. So I thought I would try to add a few facts to the debate.

1. Faurlin has never been deemed as Ineligible by the FA. When we Signed him there was no rule by the Football league (only a Premier League rule) regarding third party ownership. When the third party rules came in QPR alerted the FA regarding the Faurlin transfer and were at no stage told that he was not allowed to play.

2. The unlicensed agent was licensed by FIFA just not by the FA. Administritive error. Leeds and Barnsley I think recieved small fines for this fairly recently.

3. I read someone comparing this to the Luton case where they were docked 30 points. 20 of those points were for issues relating to going into and out of administration. The other 10 points were for something like 20 odd charges of financial irregularities. Our charges are a) not as serious and b) not as many.

4. I also read on here someone complaining that if Hereford and Torquay are being deducted points then so should QPR. The difference here is both players were ineligiable the paperwork wasnt completed in time. I believe the FA rules state that if a player is not registered with the club he will be deducted 3 points for each game he plays in and 1 for a defeat or loss. Again we have not been charged with fielding an inelligiable palyer so this punishment will not apply to us.

5. We also have to take into account that no one, as far as I am aware, has been docked points in the past for the issues that we have been charged on.

6. The only problem we may have is if the FA can prove that we delibrately mislead them. Although this seems to be more of a personal charge against our chairman. How difficult it is to prove something like this I dont know. 

Hope that clears things up. Obviously no one knows for certain what the FA will do as they are rather unpredictable but personally I cant see how we can be docked enough points to miss out on Promotion, it would be a logistical nightmare for the FA. Imagine if we were docked 20-30 points and missed out on promotion we would have 28 days to appeal and if necessary drag this through the courts what would happen with the play offs and fixtures for next season.

Well done on a great season. Hope you can join us in the Premier league (in second place of courseWink [;)] ). Much rather you lot went up than one of the sheep fiddlers.

Good luck against Swansea.

 

 

 

 

 

[/quote]

That imo is the crux of QPR''s defence... ignorance of the rule.  And making out they only thought it applied to the Prem League. 
Whatever it''s dressed up is ignorance ever an excuse?
[/quote]

The other important fact is that the statement above is not true. It was the Football league that informed the FA because they did not feel able to take action as there was not a Football League rule covering the alleged misdemeanour in existence. QPR clearly did not inform the FA at any time and I''m sure had their own very good reasons not to. [:D]      

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