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jeagle

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Agree with you Jeagle...  [Y]95% of Norwich City fans are complete idiots who do not understand that Martin and Jackson have not been anywhere near as bad for us as they are making out.  I am still waiting for somebody to come up with the name of a Championship player who has hit double figures this season when they have spent half of the season sat on the bench.We are not going to get better than Martin or Jackson unless we spend big money.  Mackail-Smith is overpriced and there is by no means any guarantee that he would offer more the additional goals which many think we would need to fire us to automatic promotion.  I think spending £3 million is a tad on the expensive side to give us cover just in case Holty picks up an injury or suspension between now and the end of the season.Sign a prem player on loan if we want to add an additional striker as an option by all means.  Although I think a lot of the options that we had there have now signed for somebody else.  I would go with what we have got, or sign Cox or Phillips on loan until the end of the season on Thursday and reassess who we buy on a permanent deal during the summer.

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[quote user="Gingerpele"]He also said he knew nothing about the CMS bid.... Not everything he says is true.

I really don''t get why people think we need another striker, how are we second now? Yes another striker would be nice, but seriously, were second, and why would we suddenly stop playing football? I know form can drop, but we will be fine.

And Chris Martin is definatly not rubbish, he may not have scored much, but Holt didn''t look like he would at the start (yes i know he wasn''t fit) Martin has a big part to play in this team, the partnership him, Holt and Hoolahan formed last season, has carried on this season, but because he isn''t scoring, he''s not getting the praise he maybe deserves (apart from me :P)

I am really getting quite fed up, with all this ''we need a loan'' blah, its been said since Janurary, and we have moved up places, 2/3/4 weeks ago, along with the ''we need a loan'' comments, people where saying we wouldn''t make the play-offs if we didn''t get one. But we are now second, we are not losing games, and in the last 4/5 games we probably have the best form out of the top 6/7 teams.[/quote]Very well said GP... [Y]Any striker that we sign will need to play 10, 15, 20 games on the spin without being dropped before they find their goalscoring boots.  Isn''t it about time our so called fans supported Martin and Jackson instead of berating two players whose records this season when you consider the amount of minutes that they have spent on the pitch and the constant tinkering with our forward line isn''t that bad???Some people on here have just obviously never played football beyond a kick around on the park, or at the beach in their lives!!!

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Maynard will do it with ease and missed more than half a season , Martin has not been out injured for half a season , half the time he has been sat on the bench because the manager dropped him for poor form .

Chris Martin is no Championship class striker , league 1 is his level .

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I get confused by those who often write off the 22 year old Chris Martin for not adjusting strait to the Championship yet still worship the groud the 25 year old Cody McDonald walks on. Sure Martin has not had a great season but his overall play brings a lot to the team- he ran the show when we played QPR at Carrow Road. He may not come back and score 5 goals but he is another string to our bow.

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[quote user="Nexus_Canary"]3-4 months ago it was just me and GP saying how good Chris Martin was and how important he is to our play.Good to see that a few people are comming out of the woodwork now and perhaps seeing how much we miss him when he is injured.Cant wait to see him back in action and reckon he will set one up at the very least on his next appearance [/quote]Ahem, what about me mate?  I have always said that Chris Martin is the best striker that we have (including Holty) and I stand by that.If we do not handle the lad properly then ultimately it will be our loss as a club and another teams gain.  Because Chris Martin is definitely one of the most gifted individuals in our squad and is probably the striker who will have most to offer us next season if we do go on to clinch promotion.

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Would take a while Smudger to go through all the striker stats but what about Scotland at the binners he must have around 10 from very few appearances also Wickham just 17 and bagged more than 4 this season . For whatever striker playing at whatever club returning 4 goals in a season is poor and we are carrying two such players.

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Rooney blatently is not a Prem striker with those stats !Think he should move down to league oneI hate how people talk about "Championship at best" when someone has had about 5 minutes to proove themselves !!

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If Chris Martin gets himself back fit for the run in then I would be much happier to have him then any of the other names banded about (CMS the exception but he is overpriced massively)This squad of players has got us to 2nd place, still not lost 2 games in a row and something like 2 defeats in 24 games.  Chris Martin is a good player and will deliver, you can bank that statement.

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If he is fit and if he is picked then it will be a vital few games for both the club and Martin. At his current strike rate he would score 1 in the remaining games. On the other hand if he hit some form and got 4 or 5 it would be great. If we go up though i think he would struggle as he has struggled this year. If we stay in the championship then he may get another season to prove his worth but he may have to compete with a new striker by then plus Mac Donald who will be keen to prove he hasa future

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[quote user="YellowOne1"]Maynard will do it with ease and missed more than half a season , Martin has not been out injured for half a season , half the time he has been sat on the bench because the manager dropped him for poor form .

Chris Martin is no Championship class striker , league 1 is his level .[/quote]Maynard is a great striker, but if we followed your logic then Bristol City would''ve bombed him out in his first season with them after they signed him from Crewe  He was hardly prolific for his first 18 months with them after stepping up a level.As for Chris Martin I will await next season and look forwards to him making you eat your words!

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Its funny how people criticise Jackson and want Martin back, despite Chris scoring the same amount of goals as Jackson in more game time. Maybe people should get behind Jackson instead of an injured player who has so far proved he''s no better.

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[quote user="Ncfc"]Would take a while Smudger to go through all the striker stats but what about Scotland at the binners he must have around 10 from very few appearances also Wickham just 17 and bagged more than 4 this season . For whatever striker playing at whatever club returning 4 goals in a season is poor and we are carrying two such players.[/quote]Wickham has 6 in 21 starts with another 14 appearances as sub.Scotland has 9 in 28 starts with another 10 appearances as sub (according to the stats on their website).Chris Martin has 6 in 23 starts with 9 sub appearances.Jackson has 4 in 16 starts with 16 sub appearances.So the Ipswich pairs records are hardly significantly better are they?  They have started more games than our pair and have more than likely been supported to the hilt by Scum fans.  The majority of our crowd on the other hand has ripped Jackson apart since October and a high percentage of them have been extremely unsupportive of Chris Martin too.I think that Martin and Jackson have both been extremely unlucky not to have another few goals on their strike rates this season.  Jackson''s recent performances have been good (he deserved a goal against Bristol City last Monday and probably would have got one if it wasn''t for the woeful lino - he also nearly grabbed the winner from the bench at Hull on Saturday with a fantastic turn and shot after carrying the game to them after a period of pressure following the Hull goal). So Scotland who has had 28 starts (playing nearly every game for the Scummers since signing for them) is the best example you can come up with is it, when I ask you to give me the name of a striker who has hit double figures when they have spent the best part of half a season on the bench?

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[quote user="Al Catraz"] I would have been delighted if Kamara had been brought in by Lambert for the final 8 games. [/quote]

 

And that for me sums up how ridiculous this obsession with bringing in a loan striker has become for some people.

 

Diomansy Kamara has averaged a goal around every four games throughout his career. Those stats are boosted by a pretty prolific spell for WBA where he averaged a goal every three games but since then he''s been scoring every five games or so. So if we''re being generous and he rediscovers his form of three or four years ago he might have got us three goals in those remaining eight games. Now if you''re Paul Lambert you need to weigh up whether a) those three goals will be more than the combined total of Wilbraham, Jackson and Martin b) whether the way Kamara plays will impact on the goalscoring of Holt (and probably Hoolahan) c) whether he will be prepared to put in the work off the ball to stop us conceding any more at the other end. Now I would say the answers to those questions are a) probably not b) it''s been a while since I''ve seen him play so I''m not sure c) no.

 

I can understand why people are getting twitchy now because we''re so close. But we had similar threads started last year about how we desparately needed another winger because the diamond formation was about to be found out (I miss Shyster [:(]) and how just because we were top it didn''t mean that it would continue to work . We''re second on merit and we''re scoring goals throughout the team. If there is a striker out there who can play off Holt and contribute goals to the team as well as the equally important aspects of the game that our current strikers provide then by all means bring him in. But Diomansy Kamara is not that player. CMS may well have been but I trust the judgement of the manager and the board when they decided not to be held to ransom on that one.

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[quote user="ncfcfan"]Its funny how people criticise Jackson and want Martin back, despite Chris scoring the same amount of goals as Jackson in more game time. Maybe people should get behind Jackson instead of an injured player who has so far proved he''s no better.[/quote]Its because Jackson is crap :)*snigger snigger*Well, way to lightweight and not cutting it at the moment anyway...... Jackson is 4th choice, and thats where he remains I am affraid !

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[quote user="Yorkshire Canary"]Continues to divide opinion amongst supporters. For me he is at best average at this level. If Lambert rated him that much he would not have been trying so hard to bring in fresh blood. It will be interseting to see if anything happens prior to thursday[/quote]

You missed the last month when Martin was injured? He didn''t say he was trying so hard in January, when Martin was fit, in fact it was a winger he was after then.

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[quote user="Smudger"][quote user="Gingerpele"]He also said he knew nothing about the CMS bid.... Not everything he says is true. I really don''t get why people think we need another striker, how are we second now? Yes another striker would be nice, but seriously, were second, and why would we suddenly stop playing football? I know form can drop, but we will be fine. And Chris Martin is definatly not rubbish, he may not have scored much, but Holt didn''t look like he would at the start (yes i know he wasn''t fit) Martin has a big part to play in this team, the partnership him, Holt and Hoolahan formed last season, has carried on this season, but because he isn''t scoring, he''s not getting the praise he maybe deserves (apart from me :P) I am really getting quite fed up, with all this ''we need a loan'' blah, its been said since Janurary, and we have moved up places, 2/3/4 weeks ago, along with the ''we need a loan'' comments, people where saying we wouldn''t make the play-offs if we didn''t get one. But we are now second, we are not losing games, and in the last 4/5 games we probably have the best form out of the top 6/7 teams.[/quote]

Very well said GP... [Y]

Any striker that we sign will need to play 10, 15, 20 games on the spin without being dropped before they find their goalscoring boots.  Isn''t it about time our so called fans supported Martin and Jackson instead of berating two players whose records this season when you consider the amount of minutes that they have spent on the pitch and the constant tinkering with our forward line isn''t that bad???

Some people on here have just obviously never played football beyond a kick around on the park, or at the beach in their lives!!!
[/quote]

... or in their own backyard ? Based upon your logic, Martin will need at least eight games to rediscover his goalscoring boots given how long he has been out for. Borini scored two in his opening game for Swansea against their fellow promotion rivals Notts Forest last Saturday. I can''t see how anybody can argue sensibly about the wisdom of bring in another striker at this stage of the season with so much at stake.

 

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[quote user="ncfcfan"]Its funny how people criticise Jackson and want Martin back, despite Chris scoring the same amount of goals as Jackson in more game time. Maybe people should get behind Jackson instead of an injured player who has so far proved he''s no better.[/quote]People should get behind both of them, as we are not going to get much better or improve our striking options unless we spend big following promotion on the likes of Maynard during the summer.A short term loan would give us cover for the run in, but if we go for this option I would still expect Martin and Jackson to play a big part in the run in also.  We are not going to sign anybody now who will significantly improve our striking options beyond unreasonable doubt and going for somebody as overpriced as Mackail-Smith would be a ludicrous move if we are to go on and win promotion in my opinion.  £3 million on another striker who it is doubtful about whether he can perform at this level, let alone Premiership level would leave us without the finance to pay for a better striker who we think will have much more potential to score lots in the Premiership.

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[quote user="Nexus_Canary"][quote user="ncfcfan"]Its funny how people criticise Jackson and want Martin back, despite Chris scoring the same amount of goals as Jackson in more game time. Maybe people should get behind Jackson instead of an injured player who has so far proved he''s no better.[/quote]Its because Jackson is crap :)*snigger snigger*Well, way to lightweight and not cutting it at the moment anyway...... Jackson is 4th choice, and thats where he remains I am affraid ![/quote]How can you say he is not cutting it at the moment when he''s never had a run in the team. Just look at Holt at the start of the season to see that a striker needs a run in the team for the goals to start coming. In the games against Bristol City and Hull, Jackson has played well and I hope that carries on until the end of the season and hopefully the goals will come.

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[quote user="Shack Attack"]

[quote user="Al Catraz"] I would have been delighted if Kamara had been brought in by Lambert for the final 8 games. [/quote]

 

And that for me sums up how ridiculous this obsession with bringing in a loan striker has become for some people.

 

Diomansy Kamara has averaged a goal around every four games throughout his career. Those stats are boosted by a pretty prolific spell for WBA where he averaged a goal every three games but since then he''s been scoring every five games or so. So if we''re being generous and he rediscovers his form of three or four years ago he might have got us three goals in those remaining eight games. Now if you''re Paul Lambert you need to weigh up whether a) those three goals will be more than the combined total of Wilbraham, Jackson and Martin b) whether the way Kamara plays will impact on the goalscoring of Holt (and probably Hoolahan) c) whether he will be prepared to put in the work off the ball to stop us conceding any more at the other end. Now I would say the answers to those questions are a) probably not b) it''s been a while since I''ve seen him play so I''m not sure c) no.

 

I can understand why people are getting twitchy now because we''re so close. But we had similar threads started last year about how we desparately needed another winger because the diamond formation was about to be found out (I miss Shyster [:(]) and how just because we were top it didn''t mean that it would continue to work . We''re second on merit and we''re scoring goals throughout the team. If there is a striker out there who can play off Holt and contribute goals to the team as well as the equally important aspects of the game that our current strikers provide then by all means bring him in. But Diomansy Kamara is not that player. CMS may well have been but I trust the judgement of the manager and the board when they decided not to be held to ransom on that one.

[/quote]

 

Hey, it''s my old chum Cliche Attack ! My lunch hour is already over so no time to argue with you today. Suffice to say, the proof of the pudding is in the eating (proverb) so let''s wait and see.

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[quote user="Al Catraz"]

[quote user="Smudger"][quote user="Gingerpele"]He also said he knew nothing about the CMS bid.... Not everything he says is true. I really don''t get why people think we need another striker, how are we second now? Yes another striker would be nice, but seriously, were second, and why would we suddenly stop playing football? I know form can drop, but we will be fine. And Chris Martin is definatly not rubbish, he may not have scored much, but Holt didn''t look like he would at the start (yes i know he wasn''t fit) Martin has a big part to play in this team, the partnership him, Holt and Hoolahan formed last season, has carried on this season, but because he isn''t scoring, he''s not getting the praise he maybe deserves (apart from me :P) I am really getting quite fed up, with all this ''we need a loan'' blah, its been said since Janurary, and we have moved up places, 2/3/4 weeks ago, along with the ''we need a loan'' comments, people where saying we wouldn''t make the play-offs if we didn''t get one. But we are now second, we are not losing games, and in the last 4/5 games we probably have the best form out of the top 6/7 teams.[/quote]Very well said GP... [Y]Any striker that we sign will need to play 10, 15, 20 games on the spin without being dropped before they find their goalscoring boots.  Isn''t it about time our so called fans supported Martin and Jackson instead of berating two players whose records this season when you consider the amount of minutes that they have spent on the pitch and the constant tinkering with our forward line isn''t that bad???Some people on here have just obviously never played football beyond a kick around on the park, or at the beach in their lives!!![/quote]

... or in their own backyard ? Based upon your logic, Martin will need at least eight games to rediscover his goalscoring boots given how long he has been out for. Borini scored two in his opening game for Swansea against their fellow promotion rivals Notts Forest last Saturday. I can''t see how anybody can argue sensibly about the wisdom of bring in another striker at this stage of the season with so much at stake.

 

[/quote]So just because Borini scored two on his debut for Swansea it means that any striker we do will supply us with the goals that will fire us to auto promotion?   God give me strength!!! [:S]Borini''s first was a good finish, the second he could hardly have missed after great work from Sinclair.Torres not netted for Chelsea yet... Oh and Andy Carroll best watch out at Liverpool, because if he doesn''t break in to first team contention week in week out and net by the end of the season then maybe they could just re-coup some of the big fee that they wasted on him by selling him to us for the £3 million that some of our fans wanted us to waste on Mackail-Smith.

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[quote user="Al Catraz"]Hey, it''s my old chum Cliche Attack! [/quote]

 

So you make a post riddled with cliché. I pick up on this. You accuse me of using another cliché which to my knowledge I have never used. And now you can dismiss any post of mine with your ''hilarious'' new nickname for me. Well done Al Catwat [:|][;)]

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I''ve tried my utmost to ignore every single Chris Martin thread in the past month because i know full well it''ll be a thread full of complete bollocks. How right i was.

Lambert has deemed Chris Martin the ''best natural finisher at the club''. And, if i''m right in saying, 90% of this forum has been calling out for ''someone who can finish our chances we create''. See where im going with this?

Jackson has come on in the past couple of games and done well in my opinion, the fact he hasn''t scored in 75 minutes of football does not mean he''s incapable of scoring. In fact, if you ask me Jackson is the kind of player that needs a good run of games, i''m sure he could get a 1 in 3 ratio if he played consistently.

But, i believe Chris Martin is a better choice, and people seem to forget what he brings to our team. Even when he''s been out of form he''s held the ball well, cut in from the left and tried to make things happen. I also wouldn''t be afraid to put money on him scoring against Scunny if he plays, because he certainly is capable.

It''s definately arguable that Mackail-Smith is no great deal better than Chrissy Martin, certainly not £3,000,000 better! He can compete in the air, hold the ball up, has more pace and technical ability than Wilbraham (who incidentally scored an important goal against Leicester).

I think the issue is that since we''ve been rumoured to be looking at strikers, people have caught on and got mixed up into it to the point that they believe we need this fantasy loan signing to achieve anything this season. No-one has considered that the predominant time we''ve been looking at strikers has been since Martin and Wilbraham have been injured - so it''s not even as if Lambert''s contradicting himself by replacing either of them!

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[quote user="Smudger"]Because Chris Martin is definitely one of the most gifted individuals in our squad and is probably the striker who will have most to offer us next season if we do go on to clinch promotion.[/quote]Not being nasty or anything, but that''s what people were saying at the end of last season.

When it comes to the crunch, both have found the step up difficult; we know they CAN both do the business, but they aren''t. Unfortunately, we don''t have time for feet-finding anymore with what''s at stake. I think those advocating getting another striker in are looking at what we could potentially be, instead of what we are. What we are is a team that has come a long, long way in 18 months and has put in an incredible performance so far this season to get us into the position we''re in. What we could be is a cut above; imagine if we''d had another regularly scoring striker to partner Holt from the start this season. Obviously it''s all assumptions and wishful thinking, but with an extra goal in a couple of select games (Forest (A), QPR (A) and Doncaster/ Preston (H) spring to mind) where we could have won but couldn''t push through, QPR''s lead at the top would shrink like Ipswich on derby day.    Despite all that though, I won''t be cursing the Heavens if we go into the final run-in with who we already have- they''re second for a reason, after all.I''d see Wilberforce starting over the other two when he''s fit again. He''s a bit unfashionable, but has proved himself a useful unit and, unlike Jackson and Martin, knows what scoring in 2011 feels like.

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[quote user="ncfcfan"]How can you say he is not cutting it at the moment when he''s never had a run in the team. Just look at Holt at the start of the season to see that a striker needs a run in the team for the goals to start coming. In the games against Bristol City and Hull, Jackson has played well and I hope that carries on until the end of the season and hopefully the goals will come.[/quote]Working hard and playing well are two different things for me.Jamie Cureton Works hardWes Plays WellGrant Holt, Works Hard and 9/10 Plays wellJackson is very hard working but is very much out of his depth. He seems quite scared to face physical defenders and his blistering pace has not been utalised and / or does not suit our style of play.I do not rate Jackson, but then I love being proven wrong.  I do not think we should sell him on , hes young , but I think regardless of our situation next year Jackson should play a season somewhere else.

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