Have to get this off my chest - n. adams and utah canary rant

[smooth 114]

It is not often I listen to Canary call.

However yesterday, I was in the car and heard a nice canary fan call to tell us he is in Utah. Well good. I have lived in the USA for three years and last year I was in Singapore having a one man promotion party.

What got on my wick was the comments regarding US Soccer. I worked with US Youth Soccer, the MLS and other sporting agencies in promotions at grassroots and professional level.

Adams comments that football was rubbish in the US is total rubbish, the guy in Utah saying it is hard to find football other than Premiership. Well again no suprise live anywhere in the world and it is, certainly in America where Spanish football will be bigger. That is why the internet does get things across and certainly video of goals etc can be found, or streams of live games. Which I have done across my travels.

US Soccer is not rubbish the MLS is going to be finding its feet. But there is no question in my mind that Youth football is exceptional in the US and is miles ahead of our standards. Those fans that think football in England is great are living in a dream world. The money invested in what is a minor sport in the US is massive, with amazing training facilites and tournament facilities in states across the US, Arkansas to Manhattan Island.

I was at the US Youth Regional and National tournaments throughout those three years and saw the cream of football from the U-9''s to U-19. All of whom are playing for scholarships to college but also national pride. This event is televised and put on the Fox Soccer Channel. I can list a number of teams at this level that could walk past our youth team. I have seen absolutely outstanding players, mainly is the south west with the Mexican influence, that have the physical size and technical ability to be stars internationally.

I have met with many of the collegiate coaches and again the system is very strong, mainly in north carolina. Once college is over there has been that void which the MLS is filling and now with expansion in to football heart lands, St Louis and Kansas City (home to many of the players that beat an England side in 1950).

I watch how we prepare youth teams in our park etc and it has nothing compared to clubs in th USA. One team I worked closely with in the US was in Chicago, it wasn;t one of the biggest probably had 25 teams at all ages up to U-19 (both womens and mens). The head coach was a former Morrocan International who played in the 1998 world cup and played with Safri, his wages were in the six figure category. It was a full time job. I have worked with former Lazio players, English players in the US. It certainly beats Terry from Costessey who is a scaffolder and meets his team Tuesday evening at the Wreck and manages them Saturday for a game. Give me a break.

Honestly this really got under my skin from both Adams and the Canary fan in Utah. Both do not have a single idea and comments were totally wrong you can access football on the web and US Soccer for my mind is, at the Youth level, miles apart from our sub standard levels.

This brand new football centre we are creating for our English team is a total waste of money we need a proper system that works Youth teams and produces talent. The scholarship scheme in the US is great it drives individuals it also means that coaches get recognised and supports the whole football industry with administrators etc. We have alot to improve in our game before slating others.

Rant over.

[Unhinged Canary 375]

But we play football in this country........ [Y]

[CDMullins 436]

I agree on many of your points raised.

The problem with the English game is once a child finishes school there is nowhere else for them to play and everyone presumes if they are not signed with a professional side at 16, then they will never be good enough.

All way through school I genuinely believed I was going to be a footballer. I’d played at Leeds United''s development scheme until I was 14, had a couple of successful trials at Coventry

City, which in the end nothing came of, had a 6 month stint at York and the same at Halifax Town. My trouble was I was too small, both in height and strength. Now I’m not using that as the sole reason I didn’t become a footballer, but if you are small and weak you have to be exceptionally talented to make it. Youth team coaches need to get results on a Saturday morning, same as any First team manger does and using big, strong players that can kick the ball further was more effective than playing small technically gifted players.

Now when I left school 8 years ago, I had no idea what I wanted to do. I was sporty but not really the academic type, although I am quite bright, I just don’t enjoy classroom stuff. I came across a leaflet for Wakefield College and for only the second year they had a FDC Football Development Centre, this basically entailed football training on a Tuesday morning, a match on a Wednesday afternoon and football training on a Thursday afternoon. You had at to have a College course set up to do around the FDC programme. I chose the BTEC National Diploma In Sport and Exercise Science, and had trials for the FDC in the Summer before college began, I passed the trials and was selected in the squad. Had I not have been I really do not know if I would have gone to college.

At the time (I have no idea how many there is now) there were only 20 FDC’s in the country of which only 10 were Northern and accessible. Our squad consisted of 20 kids that had all had spells at various professional clubs and were playing against other FDC’s that were exactly the same. The standard very good. Coaches were professional football coaches and matches were played at Semi-Professional Grounds.

Our goalkeeper was selected to play England Colleges, he went to play in Bulgaria, USA and he now plays in Sweden. A couple of lads went to Ireland for trials and we regularly had scouts from America watching with a view to Scholarships in the US. A recent member of the squad as gone to play in Egypt. But only one player of from Wakefield FDC as gone on to become a professional footballer and he is a certain.......................................Oli Johnson.

It was through studying that I saw just how good the US and Australia had it, their training methods far surpassed ours, their facilities were second to none. Their fitness and athletic-ness beat ours. The Scholarship programmes lasted longer and matches were played infront of thousands of people. I told people 8 years ago that I believed USA or Australia would win the World Cup in the next 20 years.

HOWEVER, that was 8 years ago and they have only slightly improved. They matched England in the World Cup with a 1-1 draw but that doesn’t tell half of the story, we were very poor and the Rob Green mistake gifted them the point. Throwing money at old in-their-day world Class Footballers like Thierry Henry and David Beckham is not going to develop the MLS and having watched games the standard is no better than League One in my opinion. Lots of average footballers athe the end of their career have gone to play in America which says to me that the crop of players coming through just isn’t good enough. As for the Australian League well that is just terrible.

[Bury Yellow 2]

A good rant Smooth and from what I can make out you are correct.

I am quite embarrassed by some responses to any of the USA Yella supporters we get on this board.

I can only put it down to ignorance, never been beyond these shores, or a natural left wing bias against all things American other than Obama of course who they worship as the Messiah!

[Graham Paddons Beard 2,431]

"I watch how we prepare youth teams in our park etc and it has nothing compared to clubs in th USA. One team I worked closely with in the US was in Chicago, it wasn;t one of the biggest probably had 25 teams at all ages up to U-19 (both womens and mens). The head coach was a former Morrocan International who played in the 1998 world cup and played with Safri, his wages were in the six figure category. It was a full time job. I have worked with former Lazio players, English players in the US. It certainly beats Terry from Costessey who is a scaffolder and meets his team Tuesday evening at the Wreck and manages them Saturday for a game. Give me a break.

Honestly this really got under my skin from both Adams and the Canary fan in Utah. Both do not have a single idea and comments were totally wrong you can access football on the web and US Soccer for my mind is, at the Youth level, miles apart from our sub standard levels.

This brand new football centre we are creating for our English team is a total waste of money we need a proper system that works Youth teams and produces talent. The scholarship scheme in the US is great it drives individuals it also means that coaches get recognised and supports the whole football industry with administrators etc. We have alot to improve in our game before slating others. "

 

I like Adams very much but I was surprised by these comments. I can only assume that he is ignorant of world football, and uses easy measures, ie money, in his judgement.

Any coach I know that has been out to the US speaks highly of the methods used. I have read some rubbish on this board earlier about what consitutes a Youth Development programme and it seems that if you buy the best kids in the country - David Beckham isn''t a bad example  - you suddenly have a fantastic youth development programme. In the States, because there isn''t the same economic profile attaching to the Professional Game, the end product is to provide the player the ability to play, and live,  at the highest level.  It goes beyond technical ability, and includes Sports science, diet, welfare/lifestyle all of which , ironically, English Academies are now trying to work on. 

The US looks to Spain and South America to their lead. I can''t think why... 

 

 

[Bradwell Yellow 0]

Very good thread, makes a change.

England''s dismal World Cup effort was evident that none of the players gave a tos*. Hardly any English players sing the anthem anymore. Check out the Euro 96'' video of God Save The Queen at Wembley and look at the passion displayed by Stuart Pearce and compare this to someone like Wayne Rooney who just stands there, bleak and emotionless.

National pride has been hindered as in this country, for the so called ''elite'' players (The English ones) it''s all about when the next pay check goes in the bank and when the next party is.

Compare the above, to a team like Spain, or The United States.

As said previously, grassroots football in this country shoves out the more ''technically gifted'' players for big, strong cloggers who play ''no nonsense'' stuff.

I may get shot down for this, but i think a certain Jack Wilshere wouldn''t get a look in at any other top 4 club apart from Arsenal, as they wouldn''t be prepared to change their shape to fit him in. Not ''strong'' enough to be a combative centre mid, and not fast enough to be a winger. Same goes for a Trappatoni and Wes Hoolahan (Bit out of context, but it''s talent going to waste).

[Captain Holt 522]

Some youth players may look exceptional because they are up against inferior players. Things like this are impossible to judge in my opinion.

[Canarino 0]

CDMullins, just out of interest, after your experience and training did you end up working in a football-related or sport-related job?

[Nexus_Canary 1,016]

LOL, i lived for a few years in South Carolina , and went to a fair many Charleston Battery games, although it was pretty much like watching Blyth vs Solihal Moors reserve teams it was still a game of football and a damn good day out.Now despite that, football  ( soccer ) in the US is a growing sport and Basketball especially is one of the things holding it back.The beauty of the game is that you only need a ball to be able to play it, unlike football ( american ) or hockey or baseball where you need an entire kit or even team to be able to play it.Gotta say some of the guys I played against in Charleston were extremely good players, and Mexico has acres of potential, something we are starting to see with the likes of Vela and Hernandez.I think with football USA / Mexico.... watch this space.USA will win the World cup in the next 20 - 30 years.

[Webbo118 0]

[quote user="Adam_2010"]Very good thread, makes a change. England''s dismal World Cup effort was evident that none of the players gave a tos*. Hardly any English players sing the anthem anymore. Check out the Euro 96'' video of God Save The Queen at Wembley and look at the passion displayed by Stuart Pearce and compare this to someone like Wayne Rooney who just stands there, bleak and emotionless. National pride has been hindered as in this country, for the so called ''elite'' players (The English ones) it''s all about when the next pay check goes in the bank and when the next party is. Compare the above, to a team like Spain, or The United States. As said previously, grassroots football in this country shoves out the more ''technically gifted'' players for big, strong cloggers who play ''no nonsense'' stuff. I may get shot down for this, but i think a certain Jack Wilshere wouldn''t get a look in at any other top 4 club apart from Arsenal, as they wouldn''t be prepared to change their shape to fit him in. Not ''strong'' enough to be a combative centre mid, and not fast enough to be a winger. Same goes for a Trappatoni and Wes Hoolahan (Bit out of context, but it''s talent going to waste).[/quote]

 

Probably because they don''t know the words

[Unhinged Canary 375]

[quote user="Webbo118"]

[quote user="Adam_2010"]Very good thread, makes a change. England''s dismal World Cup effort was evident that none of the players gave a tos*. Hardly any English players sing the anthem anymore. Check out the Euro 96'' video of God Save The Queen at Wembley and look at the passion displayed by Stuart Pearce and compare this to someone like Wayne Rooney who just stands there, bleak and emotionless. National pride has been hindered as in this country, for the so called ''elite'' players (The English ones) it''s all about when the next pay check goes in the bank and when the next party is. Compare the above, to a team like Spain, or The United States. As said previously, grassroots football in this country shoves out the more ''technically gifted'' players for big, strong cloggers who play ''no nonsense'' stuff. I may get shot down for this, but i think a certain Jack Wilshere wouldn''t get a look in at any other top 4 club apart from Arsenal, as they wouldn''t be prepared to change their shape to fit him in. Not ''strong'' enough to be a combative centre mid, and not fast enough to be a winger. Same goes for a Trappatoni and Wes Hoolahan (Bit out of context, but it''s talent going to waste).[/quote]

 

Probably because they don''t know the words

[/quote]Also, maybe because it''s an outdated and frankly embarrassing anthem.......... 

[Nexus_Canary 1,016]

Crap over paid players, Crap team spirit and crap manager !I honestly think we need an English manager for an English national team ! When national teams started using foreign coaches it was generally because thier home football calibre was lacking.Are you honestly telling me we have sunk so low we do not have ANY English world class managers ?!?! Although baptising many of them in the fires of the Prem mean any up and comer basically loses any chance of a career once they have failed once or twice ! It does not help that the players are choosing to put club before country though, playing for England is an honor and a privilage which 9/10 of us would jump at.Messers Gerard, Rooney and Terry don''t seem to grasp this and see it more of a chore.Makes me sick , especailly considering the raw tallent in Spain and Germany at the moment.

[Nexus_Canary 1,016]

[quote user="Unhinged Canary"]Also, maybe because it''s an outdated and frankly embarrassing anthem..........  [/quote]what would you rather a bit of dubstep or maybe some favela... samba perhaps ??The anthem is about history and pride, get a fu**ing clue !!

[Unhinged Canary 375]

[quote user="Nexus_Canary"][quote user="Unhinged Canary"]Also, maybe because it''s an outdated and frankly embarrassing anthem..........  [/quote]what would you rather a bit of dubstep or maybe some favela... samba perhaps ??The anthem is about history and pride, get a fu**ing clue !![/quote]Oh dear..... [:$]

[Nexus_Canary 1,016]

I went on reputation, didnt realise you were being sarcastic follwing previous drivel you have posted.Just figured it was business as usual !

[Mister Chops 7]

[quote user="Nexus_Canary"]Are you honestly telling me we have sunk so low we do not have ANY English world class managers ?!?! [/quote]Who would you suggest we do have?

[Unhinged Canary 375]

[quote user="Nexus_Canary"]I went on reputation, didnt realise you were being sarcastic follwing previous drivel you have posted.Just figured it was business as usual ![/quote]I wasn''t being sarcastic........[^o)]

[Nexus_Canary 1,016]

[quote user="Mister Chops"][quote user="Nexus_Canary"]Are you honestly telling me we have sunk so low we do not have ANY English world class managers ?!?! [/quote]Who would you suggest we do have?[/quote]Harry Redknapp

[John 0]

[quote user="Nexus_Canary"][quote user="Unhinged Canary"]Also, maybe because it''s an outdated and frankly embarrassing anthem..........  [/quote]what would you rather a bit of dubstep or maybe some favela... samba perhaps ??The anthem is about history and pride, get a fu**ing clue !![/quote]It is a dreadful anthem.There''s good reason why many have wanted dropped, and replaced by the likes of "Jerusalem" or "I Vow To The, My Country" (both of which would be somewhat of an improvement). I''m certainly not overwhelmed with a ''surge of pride'' when i hear it; but then again i''m the kind of guy that couldn''t care less if my loo roll was covered in Union Jacks, or flags of St. George''s Cross, as i wipe my a$$ with it.I take pride in our institutions and dedication to foreign aid, just as i take shame in us introducing Concentration camps to the world, our pillaging and raping of societies and rich cultures for all their worth in the name of the empire, or our failure to prevent Cliff Richard from making music. Just because i see our colours, or hear the words "God Save Our Queen", it''s not to say i''m going to be swayed to throw my life on my line for England (that''s not to say i wouldn''t be prepared to lay my life on the line for others; only that it''s not an ''anthem'' that prompts a moral shift of mine to defend others), neither does it fuel my furore and hatred (i simply think of it a bit of a shoddy ol'' ditty).It''s that sense of ''patriotism'' that has enabled societies across the world to have been led into a state of volatile extremism, of the monstrous kind. Ultimately, the concept is a silly one, while such patriotism is just as misguided as it is dangerous.I can recall players fail to sing the anthem, and perform with their heart on their sleeve, just as i can with players who have sung, though played a stinker of a game. Unless someone undertakes a lengthy analysis, that provides evidence of a distinct correlation between the two, i couldn''t care less, and there''s no rational basis of reasoning for anyone else to think otherwise.

[Mister Chops 7]

[quote user="Nexus_Canary"][quote user="Mister Chops"][quote user="Nexus_Canary"]Are you honestly telling me we have sunk so low we do not have ANY English world class managers ?!?! [/quote]Who would you suggest we do have?[/quote]Harry Redknapp [/quote]Seriously?  And if we dropped Terry as captain for personal reasons, Harry Redknapp will never be England manager.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Redknapp#Corruption_allegations_and_arrest

[John 0]

[quote user="Nexus_Canary"][quote user="Mister Chops"][quote user="Nexus_Canary"]Are you honestly telling me we have sunk so low we do not have ANY English world class managers ?!?! [/quote]Who would you suggest we do have?[/quote]Harry Redknapp [/quote]Original.He''s been mentioned so often now (and the only one for that matter), that you''d be forgiven for thinking he''s the only ''world class'' manager we have. Which leads me to this question... [quote user="Nexus_Canary"]Are you honestly telling me we have sunk so low we do not have ANY English world class managers ?!?! [/quote]Presumably you think we have at least one (can''t say i even agree with that myself)... But other than Harry?

[John 0]

[quote user="Mister Chops"][quote user="Nexus_Canary"][quote user="Mister Chops"][quote user="Nexus_Canary"]Are you honestly telling me we have sunk so low we do not have ANY English world class managers ?!?! [/quote]Who would you suggest we do have?[/quote]Harry Redknapp [/quote]Seriously?  And if we dropped Terry as captain for personal reasons, Harry Redknapp will never be England manager.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Redknapp#Corruption_allegations_and_arrest[/quote]Hilarious.The kind of inner discrepancy your average England fan is all too comfortable with.

[CDMullins 436]

[quote user="Canarino"]CDMullins, just out of interest, after your experience and training did you end up working in a football-related or sport-related job?[/quote]

No I didnt, College pushed me to apply for the services. By the time my Police application form came, I was working for group4 as a prisoner custody officer. I joined the Police and quit around 3 months into my training.The job wasnt for me.

I started work in a betting shop and an old coaches brother came in one day and asked me if I wanted to start playing semi- Professional. By this time I had moved to William Hill Head Office where I am a Security Manager and I just couldnt commit to training 3 times a week. Also the matches were midweek and in the Manchester area which was a fair old trek to a set off at 5pm and then back home after.

I feel like I was slightly let down by football. But I think I did my very best and was turned away for my size, something out of my control. My dad took me everywhere and gave me every chance, Leeds Utd, Coventry City, Halifax Town, York City, training courses where ever they were, I had every chance to make it but didnt. I became a referee but it just wasnt the same as playing so gave up on that.

I went on trial to Coventry with a lad called Martyn Woolford. When we were at Coventry I was asked to stay on and he was released without a second call back. Some time later I played against him in a 5-a-side league on a Monday night. He played for York City at the time. I didnt say anything to our players at the time but afterwards I told them about Coventry and that he played for York City and they couldnt believe he was getting paid to play football and I wasnt. He now plays for Bristol City and played against City last Monday live on Sky, he as also scored a goal at Wembley, crushes me every time I see his name pop-up on Soccer Saturday when he scores.

Every now and again I fall out of love with Football, usually when Norwich arnt performing and when my 5-a-side team are getting stuffed. But it doesnt take long to find my love for the game again.

I have the intentions of getting into coaching but not until im 30. I took my UEFA B coaching licence when I was 17 and only failed on the practical assessment. Id love to make money of coaching, but will do it for the loce of the sport rather than personal gain.

[smooth 114]

To bring this back to the topic and certainly I am a club before country guy with football so my paragraph with the new training area for the FA was a comment suggesting that it is solving the symptom not the cause of our national talent being wasted.

It is players like CDMullins that I am referring to and I believe that there has been publicised a set up by a former manager that is trying to bring through more chris smallings, dj campbell''s etc.

But the point that Adams made infuriated me and I am still angry today, no basis apart from watching a little of MLS.

Yes MLS is a long way off, one because of the salary cap and conditions on the overseas players wages (mainly the franchise players).

The system in the US does not favour the player, collegiate level to professional level does not offer a good financial award unlike then going into the mainstream job market, unfortunately. This is also because in America there is a big divide in those that do play football. It is the less affluent in some states, but surprisingly it is also the very affluent who then do not need to look at the game as a form of income/ career as they are in the right foot holes already.

I was aware at the Chicago Fire when Blanco was there of a young centre back who had been picked in the draft from a very good North Carolina University. He started and performed well, his wages where so small compared to Blanco. Similarly with D. Beckham his contract was worked in a ridiculous way hence strangling the talent coming through the draft to low wages. This will balance out and older European players will be a thing of the past, but with salary caps in place it is getting the fundamentals right.

The system up to this point is exceptional and again puts our system to total shame. However as we know it can;t be as we produce premiership calibre football players. However the proportions of active players between each countries are very different, our system is very inefficient.

Therefore for Adams to label the US game as awful was totally uncalled for and I certainly would love a team coached by him to play a number of teams I know in the US that would wipe the floor and actually laugh at the standards that we produce.

Rant over. But Adams I hope we have a chance to meet to discuss.

[smooth 114]

Actually it is an awkward balance of player power, one which is very unbalanced here. For one the salary cap and power by franchise is very over-powering and hence players after collegiate level looks at other careers. But for those franchise players very different.

For any football fan, and I mean real football fan, please read Gary Imlach''s book titled My Father And Other Working Class Football Heroes. It puts into perspective how ridiculous football is. The American game can certainly put some rights to the wrongs of the game here, but of course they will still make mistakes in that process.

As a side note, when I returned to the UK I worked at Norwich City FC and voiced my opinions and good contacts to the then scouts under Grant and Roeder. I was told that it was a mine-field getting overseas talent and that it was something the regimes then would like to but could not look into. I can certainly say that a number of teams in the US produce players that could walk into our first team squad. There is no wonder that the larger Premiership clubs have specifically built bases in the US, where they can hold trials and monitor players throughout their development. The Manchester United facility in Philadelphia is exceptional.

You may travel throughout our catchment area, watching small tournaments of 25 teams here. I went to tournaments of over 200 teams. The tournaments and games here will be played on ''The Wreck'' whereas the US will have purpose built facilities.As a scout you may see one young bright thing at this tournament from Gorleston, but the US events you will be advised and directed to watch 30+ players from across the state or surrounding states.

To me Adams has got it very wrong.

[mighty yellow 0]

[quote user="Nexus_Canary"][quote user="Unhinged Canary"]Also, maybe because it''s an outdated and frankly embarrassing anthem..........  [/quote]what would you rather a bit of dubstep or maybe some favela... samba perhaps ??The anthem is about history and pride, get a fu**ing clue !![/quote]Mong alert.

[Nuff Said 5,128]

Apropos of nothing... it''s the Rec as in Recreation ground.One love

[@NYCANARIES 0]

Hello folks, I have to weigh in here as someone who went to most Red Bull home games last season and watched all the others. The MLS is getting better but it''s still League One as a standard. You only have to look at the League Two and League One players arriving to be successful. Ryan Smith for one.

It''s deffinately getting better but it''s no better than League One right now. Here in NY, Henry waits and waits for a pass, then gets bored and wanders into midfield to help himself. The best player on the team is Lindpere, who has never played at a high level. Taino just signed and is out of position in central midfield but had most successful pass rating in whole MLS last weekend.

I''d love it to be a better standard and it will get there, but it ain''t right now. John Rooney signed this summer!

I guess the question is this...Does Neil Adams think League One is rubbish and is that valid?

[smooth 114]

Ned please go to a college/ u-19 tournament.

If you are interested in football this is where to go. I worked with the MLS and was fortunate to see some insights into the new franchises but also travel throughout the US and build relationships with Chicago, Colorado, San Jose, DC United, Houston, FC Dallas but primarily LA Galaxy. The game is improving that is what I said in my pieces.

I never said the standard of MLS was better than our league, however the ame upto professional level surpasses what we have here.

Please, please watch the regional and National finals that are televised and look on US Youth Soccers website. That is the arguement, US soccer is not bad as Adams highlighted. UK football is very bad unless you are very very fortunate as the systems in place if you are not in an academy etc are appauling, with playing at local fields, nothing purpose built. I don''t want repeat myself but the arguement is not about MLS it was about US football.

Arizona Arsenal is a fantastic club that have produced a number of nationals champions etc. There are many of Southern California teams that produce players that could easily displace Korey Smith from our team and play in League 1/ Champiosnhip teams. I think again we put ourselves on a pedestal without realising how behind we are.

[@NYCANARIES 0]

I have... And I will agree that youth soccer in the states is fantastically supported. Structures in place for a successful future after many years of being ignored as a sport. I coach myself.

I do disagree a little on the final product, given the young players in the league here and abroad but the number of players being produced is greater than ever.