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Tangible Fixed Assets anyone?

Increased capacity?

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yeah i saw this on the bbc. Sounds like they want to repeat the project from last year of sqeezing seats in. Nice idea and the money from another 1000 seats or so would be nice, as long as doesn''t make seating more uncomfortable for the fans it''s going to effect. Is there anyone on this board who sits in the one of the areas they added more seats to before as im curious to know if it has lead to that area being really cramped or not. I struggle to see how we manage to sqeeze more seats without any building work.

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[quote user="Stunning volley from Goss"]Corner In-fill in front of the hotel anyone?????[/quote]

I would have thought the Old Bill would want to keep the gap between the Barclay and the away support.  Also note McNallys comment about safe (comfortable) seats. Would you feel safe next to say Leeds fans? 

Which makes me wonder where else can you locate new seats?.

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Tangie, I listened to that interview last night. I thought what McNally said made sense about the concessions and ticket pricing. This was an issue , particularly the concessions, that the supporters groups were at odds with the club over. Has anything changed?

 

 

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[quote user="nutty nigel"]Tangie, I listened to that interview last night. I thought what McNally said made sense about the concessions and ticket pricing. This was an issue , particularly the concessions, that the supporters groups were at odds with the club over. Has anything changed?

 

[/quote]Seems unlikely. NCISA  posted this in the pink-un a couple of weeks ago.....

 

http://www.pinkun.com/home/a_small_price_to_pay_for_season_ticket_holders_1_813160

 

A small price to pay for season ticket holders

 

Robert O’Neill
Friday, February 25, 2011
1:41 PM

 

NCISA has received many emails complaining about the price increase of season tickets

The way in which the 60 to 65 year old age group have been treated has been stated as has the treatment people sitting in the lounge areas of the ground.

What has not been talked about is the hidden increases to us all.

I personally sit in The Lower Barclay and have been hit with not only the “small” price increase but many hidden extras.

 

1. Direct Debit £5 charge: This year, if you missed the small print you will be charged £5 for paying by Direct Debit!

 

2. VAT increase: Why were people that pay by Direct Debit not allowed to take advantage of the pre-VAT increase? if you read or hear Martin Lewis (the money saving expert) and not the club I should have been allowed to have the lower price, as it is when you are invoiced not when you pay that the VAT rate is set and as VAT man, not the club, is taking the extra 2.5 percent I do not see why this could not have been offered to all.

 

3. Canary Account discount: Unless you sit in the Norwich & Peterborough stand you will no longer receive this discount! Ok, so these may only be small amounts but every price increase I am hit with makes me have to rethink.

 

I wonder how many more increases it will be before I too, am priced out of watching the team I have supported for most of my life.

I also wonder with the planned ground capacity increase to 35,000 in years to come will it sell out for a game of football or will we have to wait for the sell-out signs to come out only when we have a concert in the summer?

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[quote user="Tangible Fixed Assets anyone"]

I would have thought the Old Bill would want to keep the gap between the Barclay and the away support.  Also note McNallys comment about safe (comfortable) seats. Would you feel safe next to say Leeds fans? 

Which makes me wonder where else can you locate new seats?.

[/quote]If there was a corner infill in front of the hotel, there could still be a gap between that and the Barclay. Also, the away fans could take the infill, and we could have more of the Jarrold.

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[quote user="lappinitup"]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]Tangie, I listened to that interview last night. I thought what McNally said made sense about the concessions and ticket pricing. This was an issue , particularly the concessions, that the supporters groups were at odds with the club over. Has anything changed?

 

[/quote]Seems unlikely. NCISA  posted this in the pink-un a couple of weeks ago.....

 

http://www.pinkun.com/home/a_small_price_to_pay_for_season_ticket_holders_1_813160

 

A small price to pay for season ticket holders

 

Robert O’Neill
Friday, February 25, 2011
1:41 PM

 

NCISA has received many emails complaining about the price increase of season tickets

The way in which the 60 to 65 year old age group have been treated has been stated as has the treatment people sitting in the lounge areas of the ground.

What has not been talked about is the hidden increases to us all.

I personally sit in The Lower Barclay and have been hit with not only the “small” price increase but many hidden extras.

 

1. Direct Debit £5 charge: This year, if you missed the small print you will be charged £5 for paying by Direct Debit!

 

2. VAT increase: Why were people that pay by Direct Debit not allowed to take advantage of the pre-VAT increase? if you read or hear Martin Lewis (the money saving expert) and not the club I should have been allowed to have the lower price, as it is when you are invoiced not when you pay that the VAT rate is set and as VAT man, not the club, is taking the extra 2.5 percent I do not see why this could not have been offered to all.

 

3. Canary Account discount: Unless you sit in the Norwich & Peterborough stand you will no longer receive this discount! Ok, so these may only be small amounts but every price increase I am hit with makes me have to rethink.

 

I wonder how many more increases it will be before I too, am priced out of watching the team I have supported for most of my life.

I also wonder with the planned ground capacity increase to 35,000 in years to come will it sell out for a game of football or will we have to wait for the sell-out signs to come out only when we have a concert in the summer?

[/quote]

 

Think you''ll find that was Robert''s view/article and not neccessary the views of the rest of the committee .

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[quote user="lappinitup"]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]Tangie, I listened to that interview last night. I thought what McNally said made sense about the concessions and ticket pricing. This was an issue , particularly the concessions, that the supporters groups were at odds with the club over. Has anything changed?

 

[/quote]Seems unlikely. NCISA  posted this in the pink-un a couple of weeks ago.....

 

http://www.pinkun.com/home/a_small_price_to_pay_for_season_ticket_holders_1_813160

 

A small price to pay for season ticket holders

 

Robert O’Neill
Friday, February 25, 2011
1:41 PM

 

NCISA has received many emails complaining about the price increase of season tickets

The way in which the 60 to 65 year old age group have been treated has been stated as has the treatment people sitting in the lounge areas of the ground.

What has not been talked about is the hidden increases to us all.

I personally sit in The Lower Barclay and have been hit with not only the “small” price increase but many hidden extras.

 

1. Direct Debit £5 charge: This year, if you missed the small print you will be charged £5 for paying by Direct Debit!

 

2. VAT increase: Why were people that pay by Direct Debit not allowed to take advantage of the pre-VAT increase? if you read or hear Martin Lewis (the money saving expert) and not the club I should have been allowed to have the lower price, as it is when you are invoiced not when you pay that the VAT rate is set and as VAT man, not the club, is taking the extra 2.5 percent I do not see why this could not have been offered to all.

 

3. Canary Account discount: Unless you sit in the Norwich & Peterborough stand you will no longer receive this discount! Ok, so these may only be small amounts but every price increase I am hit with makes me have to rethink.

 

I wonder how many more increases it will be before I too, am priced out of watching the team I have supported for most of my life.

I also wonder with the planned ground capacity increase to 35,000 in years to come will it sell out for a game of football or will we have to wait for the sell-out signs to come out only when we have a concert in the summer?

[/quote]

Is this the same NCISA that a few weeks ago were suggesting that everyone would put their hands in their pockets and donate money and possibly give back rebate money. If it is are you just going with the flow at any particular time ? or in fairness have I simply misunderstood ? If I am right and I am happy to be corrected where do you stand now as in the middle should not be an option.  

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That''s the first time I''ve seen that article and it''s not what I was referring to. I was talking about threads on here earlier in the season. The article is interesting though.

 

I listened to McNally''s interview last night and I have always agreed with his view that tv money etc. is out of our control.  Many clubs will go to the wall if the gravy train moves on leaving the clubs financed by ticket income in a very strong position. I was pleased to see McNally taking the long term view.

 

 

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Last summer they reprofiled the terracing to the front of the N&P stand and lowered the front of the Jarrold Stand to introduce new rows. Whether it''s possible to do the same to the Main Stand and / or the Barclay, may be food for thought? 

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Last summer they also added 1 new row to the main (City) stand, reprofiled the seating and aisles in the River end upper tier and an extra row at the back of the Barclay upper in order to increase capacity!

 

I suppose it would be possible to put one or two more rows in at the front of the Barclay stand lower tier?

 

Apart from taking out the journalists area in the City stand and adding a back row to the back of the Snakepit (the reason the back row of the Snakepit is currently left empty is to allow the police control room above totally uninterupted views!) I can''t see where else in Carrow Road the capacity can''t be increased without extensions to the existing stands?

 

Surely extra rows can''t fitted into the Jarold, City and River end stands otherwise they would of been added last summer when the last capacity increase took place?

 

Some big clubs have lowered their pitch in the past in order to accomodate extra rows in the front of stands but that would be too expensive surely?

 

Bowkett said a couple of years ago that the existing ground without extending the footprint of the stadium (EG, upper tiers or bigger stands) could accomodate 2-3000. So after last summers 1000 increase this leaves 1-2000?

 

I still think its possible to extend the Jarold stand round to the emergency exit beside the Barclay stand. Yes most of the rooms in the hotel currently enjoying views of the hallowed turf would lose that pleasure but increased capacity is what we need. If such a Jarold extension occurred then the away fans would be moved into the corner allowing more of the Jarold stand to be available for Norwich fans. This would add about 1500-2000 to the capacity but I''d imagine that it would be expensive at present?

 

Interesting and its good to see the club in the hands of such sensible and go ahead persons!

 

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"We have two or thee different routes we would look at but it wouldn''t be anything like a stand development," he explained

I dont think he said that.

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The back of the Barclay had an extra row put in. Not made to much difference as almost everybody exits by walking sideways past other fans.

As to temporary seating Bournemouth recently oput in temporary seating behind one goal where previously there was an empty space so it is accpted legally, if they can agree something with the hotel.

However at some point the club, and the fans, will have to bite on the bullet and accept that there will have to be a limit on concessionary season tickets.

We have the situation where a childs season ticket can be almost the same price as an adult has to pay for one game. It is cheaper for some adults to bring their children to the game than it is to pay for child minding;

There are other anomolies whereby previously a 60 year old ( perhaps in a very well paid job) was paying a third less than a 22 year old. Many retired folk have a far greater disposal income than many people at work, though again expect a vast reduction.

It will come down to a simple case of supply and demand. If we go up to the PremierLeague we are going to have seats being occupied at £1.59 a game. I doubt there''s anyone who thinks there will not be an excess of demand for seats. What would you do if you were the club ?

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[quote user="Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man"][quote user="Tangible Fixed Assets anyone"]

I would have thought the Old Bill would want to keep the gap between the Barclay and the away support.  Also note McNallys comment about safe (comfortable) seats. Would you feel safe next to say Leeds fans? 

Which makes me wonder where else can you locate new seats?.

[/quote]

If there was a corner infill in front of the hotel, there could still be a gap between that and the Barclay. Also, the away fans could take the infill, and we could have more of the Jarrold.
[/quote]

Probably easier the other way round, i,e put the extra seats against the Barclay.

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It would be nice if these were made available to casuals rather than just another season ticket stitch up.Here is an opportunity to remember the local fan who can''t afford the outlay... or have the opportunity to make it to every match.

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[quote user="cityangel"]Think you''ll find that was Robert''s view/article and not neccessary the views of the rest of the committee .

 

[/quote]I beg to differ CA. The article is clearly under the NCISA heading and written by a committee member. Surely if he had wanted to disassociate it from the organisation he would have posted it under "blogs". He even starts with "NCISA has received many emails complaining about the price increase of season tickets." giving the impression it was an authorised article. If the committee didn''t agree with it, surely they would have asked Archant to remove it.

 

In recent radio Norfolk interviews, the Butler was introduced as NCISA chairman and another time, Kathy as NCISA secretary. Neither of them (nor Tilly before them) stated their views were personal and so the listener would naturally assume they were speaking in behalf of the organisation. I doubt very much that anyone associated with NCISA over the years has called a committee meeting to get their views before doing a TV or radio interview. 

 

It is this confusion that has caused some commitee members to stop posting on here (sadly) but if ALL their official stuff was put on their website or in the Pink-un under the NCISA banner, then they could all express themselves freely as individuals and fans, and ignore any reference to their organisation. 

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[quote user="lappinitup"]

[quote user="cityangel"]Think you''ll find that was Robert''s view/article and not neccessary the views of the rest of the committee .

[/quote]I beg to differ CA. The article is clearly under the NCISA heading and written by a committee member. Surely if he had wanted to disassociate it from the organisation he would have posted it under "blogs". He even starts with "NCISA has received many emails complaining about the price increase of season tickets." giving the impression it was an authorised article. If the committee didn''t agree with it, surely they would have asked Archant to remove it. [/quote]

Hiya Lapps, seem to remember from what Kathy told me ages ago  that the ncisa committee members take it in turns to write a monthly article for the pinkun, don''t think you''ll find they get it checked out with the other 12 committee members, they just write an article then submit it to the pinkun so I would assume its their own views.

If it was a  article where the wording was agreed by the 12 ncisa committee members surely it would have their name underneath it rather than Robert''s

 

 

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[quote user="Paul Cluckbert "]It would be nice if these were made available to casuals rather than just another season ticket stitch up.Here is an opportunity to remember the local fan who can''t afford the outlay... or have the opportunity to make it to every match.[/quote]Don''t we have a season ticket cap anyway? I agree that if capacity goes up more should be available to casual fans, as a percentage of the total attendance. You have students away at university, people who usually play local football on a Saturday, those who simply can''t afford to go every game in the current climate, as well as the ''canary curious'' who are new to the region or new to football. If the demand is there from casual fans, it would generate more money for the club selling them individually rather than at season-ticket prices.Does anyone have any idea what percentage of other clubs'' capacities are sold as season tickets? Obviously the comparison is more viable for other clubs who tend to sell out every game, rather than the three-quarters-empty tumbleweed stadiums like Wigan, Middlesbrough and the like. I''d imagine our percentage of season tickets to total capacity is among the highest in the country.

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I believe there maybe some kind of legislation that requires the club to make a certain percentage of the tickets available for casual purchase. If that was the case then I would think that most clubs would try to sell as many season tickets as possible and keep the casual sales to a minimum. Better money in the bank now etc Also allows for better provision of services, stewarding, sales etc if you know how many are going to be there on the day.

 

I accept that revenue is lost by having some ankle biter paying a £50 when you could be selling that seat for maybe £25 every game - but that is only if you are successful and it does leave you fairly open to fluctuating wage bills when you have spent heavily only to find the crowds and money aren''t there so the following season you have to cut back. That is pretty much what is happening with the paupers down at poorman road, 4000 less farmhands at each game at an average of £30 a seat will mean around £3m shortfall come the end of the season. Any saving in stewarding costs VAT etc is easily covered in loss of profits from bars catering etc. Anyone the paupers still have 21 players Simon Clegg admits he doesn''t know if he can afford next season.

 

For us this was a long term process begun under Doncaster to not only maximise revenue but to also stabilise it. It probably helps having the shambles down the A140 to measure against. Cast your mind back to Aug 8th 2009 (1-7) and if you had asked any City fan that evening which club would be heading for possible promotion to the Premiership the following season with crowds nigh on 10,000 higher than their rivals I''m not sure too many would have chosen us over the paupers.

 

 

ps I have recently written to the club suggesting that they charge fatties extra by a simple process of putting them on scales as they enter the ground, a sort of weigh and pay, with a concession that they can offset any charges by spending the money in the bar on food and drink. That way it''ll cost them more next game !

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[quote user="City1st"]

I believe there maybe some kind of legislation that requires the club to make a certain percentage of the tickets available for casual purchase. If that was the case then I would think that most clubs would try to sell as many season tickets as possible and keep the casual sales to a minimum. Better money in the bank now etc Also allows for better provision of services, stewarding, sales etc if you know how many are going to be there on the day.

 

I accept that revenue is lost by having some ankle biter paying a £50 when you could be selling that seat for maybe £25 every game - but that is only if you are successful and it does leave you fairly open to fluctuating wage bills when you have spent heavily only to find the crowds and money aren''t there so the following season you have to cut back. That is pretty much what is happening with the paupers down at poorman road, 4000 less farmhands at each game at an average of £30 a seat will mean around £3m shortfall come the end of the season. Any saving in stewarding costs VAT etc is easily covered in loss of profits from bars catering etc. Anyone the paupers still have 21 players Simon Clegg admits he doesn''t know if he can afford next season.

 

For us this was a long term process begun under Doncaster to not only maximise revenue but to also stabilise it. It probably helps having the shambles down the A140 to measure against. Cast your mind back to Aug 8th 2009 (1-7) and if you had asked any City fan that evening which club would be heading for possible promotion to the Premiership the following season with crowds nigh on 10,000 higher than their rivals I''m not sure too many would have chosen us over the paupers.

 

 

ps I have recently written to the club suggesting that they charge fatties extra by a simple process of putting them on scales as they enter the ground, a sort of weigh and pay, with a concession that they can offset any charges by spending the money in the bar on food and drink. That way it''ll cost them more next game !

[/quote][:D]

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My view on the importance of the casual supporter is not some lefty ''what about the poor'' plea... it''s about keeping those youngsters/weekend workers/families with priorities etc. able to attend matches as and when so the habit doesn''t become lost.It''s easy to slip into a different mindset having felt shut out over time... and the vast majority won''t come back. Norwich City are inflating a bubble right now... and when it bursts the grassroot fan won''t be there to ride to the rescue.A percentage of season tickets is of course desirable... but a ''lock-out'' for the less well heeled is plain wrong.

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[quote user="Hairy Canary"]Don''t worry cluck I don''t think many people confused you with a lefty[/quote]That''s pleasing to know anyway.  [;)]

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I would prefer the club to be looking out for less well-off adult supporters than semi-interested middle class kids.

One ready way would be to run a tracer on former season ticket holders over 60 years of age and offer them three pairs of home casual tickets at half-price for the season - one in each category A, B, C.

Another way would be to run an annual raffle across registered Norfolk retirement homes with pairs of home casual tickets at nominal cost as prizes.

Faithful fans who have fallen on hard times could be identified through NCISA/Club cabbage organizers etc and helped with an odd home casual ticket here and there.

Etc.

The only thing is these groups probably won''t buy too many pies or replica shirts..............

Of course as a ''community club'' we may already be quietly doing some such things............

What would the club get out of it.........immeasurable goodwill and invaluable PR.

One love.

OTBC

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"One ready way would be to run a tracer on former season ticket holders over 60 years of age and offer them three pairs of home casual tickets ..."

Well, except that that sort of exercise would inevitably identify a flock of deceased ex-Canaries (cue Monty P. ex-parrot jokes).

Would come as a bit of a shock to the missus when someone starts writing to her ex-hubby:

"Dear Jim, We''ve not seen you at The Rudd for 40 years. How about rocking on down? And by the way, Alan Black no longer hoofs it into the stand ... (or even Nelson)"

I know the City End is pretty dead at the best of times, but still ...

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[quote user="cityangel"][quote user="lappinitup"]

[quote user="cityangel"]Think you''ll find that was Robert''s view/article and not neccessary the views of the rest of the committee .

[/quote]I beg to differ CA. The article is clearly under the NCISA heading and written by a committee member. Surely if he had wanted to disassociate it from the organisation he would have posted it under "blogs". He even starts with "NCISA has received many emails complaining about the price increase of season tickets." giving the impression it was an authorised article. If the committee didn''t agree with it, surely they would have asked Archant to remove it.

 

[/quote]Hiya Lapps, seem to remember from what Kathy told me ages ago  that the ncisa committee members take it in turns to write a monthly article for the pinkun, don''t think you''ll find they get it checked out with the other 12 committee members, they just write an article then submit it to the pinkun so I would assume its their own views.

 

If it was a  article where the wording was agreed by the 12 ncisa committee members surely it would have their name underneath it rather than Robert''s

 

[/quote]But it did have their name OVER the article CA. In fact, you have to click on NCISA to get to it. Anyone reading it would automatically assume it was NCISA''s views even if the other eleven committee members didn''t agree with it. [:)] 

 

 

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