Away fans in the Norwich section of the South Stand

[PH 0]

Am I the only person still fuming about the fact there were about 50 West Ham fans scattered in the Norwich section of the new South Stand... These fans were not ejected from the ground even though they were wearing away colours, but even worse than that, they were allowed to jeer and goad Norwich fans when they scored!!

The Police and Stewards did absolutely nothing, which i have therefore concluded means that away fans are allowed in the home end??? Which I think is an absolute disgrace.. I will be forking out £360 for a new seat next season and do not expect to have to, potentially sit directly next to away fans, when, there is a perfectly good away section they could sit in...

Just think what''s going to happen in the Premier (hopefully) next season, we are going to get that happening every week.

Oh and while I am having a rant, don''t we have all seating policy at Norwich? You would think the Police and stewards would have thought to have told the 2,000 West ham fans who stood up for 90 minutes? Anyone sitting in the Barclay (as I did before today) will know that they tell you to sit down every 5 minutes? Double standards or what?

Ps I have nothing against West Ham as a team, I thought they were the best side we have played this season and deserved a draw.

[James Long 0]

I totally agree with you on this matter. I now sit in area N where my new ticket is and there were at least 2 Hammers around me but may have been more. When Harewood scored the woman who looked crinkly and probably in her 50''s was one row and a few seats to the left of me got up and started goading and particularly looked at me doing that childish "We Scored" thing and kissing her coat which i think was a Reebok branding. When we scored she and this other person a male remained seated obviously and thankfully i got my revenge and shouted "ugly B*t*h" because she did look pretty like that ( I don''t how the asterisks work in that word so if i got it wrong don''t give me a hard time) and she heard this and got angry and then I made sure like every other Hammers fan she also got a full rendition of the 2nd part of Samba De Janiero to rub her nose in it. I mean it is so annoying that Norwich fans have been wanting tickets at Carrow Road for ages and here you with some opposition fans trying to not let us have that pleasure. I mean she could go in the away end and if there weren''t any they could miss the match. I mean aswell what with the restrictions of getting a ticket for match day how could they get one. The only way must be if someone gave them tickets or they bought them on the black market. I personally reckon that these people who did this were Norfolk or close East Anglian residents and I have heard of what procedures West ham fans have for ticket allocation but surely being based close to Norwich would mean they should be able to get tickets in the away end.

[FatboySlimfast 0]

I agree PH, it is disgusting, especially as there were so many norwich fans who couldn''t get a ticket. My mate sat in the new stand and said there was about 100 or so west ham dotted about, some in colours some without. Something in the ticket office must have drastically gone wrong as i was under the impression these tickets were only on sale to members. Personally i was sitting in the upper barclay and had two hammers sitting behind me. When we equalized it nearly turned nasty and it was only the excitement of the game that settled things down. Once again the stewards didn''t seem to bothered.

[ceedee 0]

I had at least 3 West Ham supporters sitting directly behind me in the middle of Block N. Like PH I would like to know how they managed to get seats in the home section of the New Stand when all remaining home seats were sold out to members on the first day of going on sale.

[Mello Yello 2,505]

Two West Ham fans were sat two rows in front of me in the City stand, just wait till we play the "BIG GUNS" next season, I''m pretty certain all the closet Man U & Gooners will be indiscriminately dotted all around the stadium. On another note, whilst I don''t have a problem with certain season ticket holders relinquishing their seats to close friends or relatives, I must admit that it could cause a touch of friction amongst the less savoury individuals who attend matches fisticuffs etc...etc...

Also, if the club is to enforce a "NO STANDING" policy, then it must apply to all fans and areas!. Yes the Hammers fans stood for the whole duration of the game, and I did not see any attempt by stewards or the local constabulary to get them to sit down, does it mean the away section will be closed down?. Makes a mockery of the whole situation......

[PH 0]

I have just emailed NCFC about this to find out what their official policy is on away fans in the home end and what they are going to do about it. I will let you know when I get a reply.

[Canny Canary 0]

Due to living awayfrom Norwich I can''t get to many home games - has there been an influx of touts or anything recently that could have caused this problem?

[MadDan 0]

I do think this needs seriously looking into. Not only is it galling to see an away fan taking up a seat that should be occupied by one of our fans but there is a real danger of violence.

If a fight breaks out, both fans will be banned. No real loss for the away fan but pretty hard on the City fan.

We must accept that it is highly likely that speculators/touts have bought season tickets knowing that they can sell them on each match day if we go into the Premiership. This would mean the club, and the fans, will have little or no control over who is sitting in certain seats. Purely on the safety level this MUST be addressed.

I would urge fans to write or email the club. Thankfully it looks like the Pink ''un is going to throw it''s weight behind this issue as well.

We need to know -

What checks are made regarding season tickets being sublet to away fans ?

What action will be taken on the day and long term if this is found to be so ?

What action will be taken against members who abuse their privilige by securing tickets for away fans ?

Will the club implement conditions on next seasons ticket sales to avoid any of the above happening ie ensuring tickets are non transferable except through the club

I would also urge fans to note the seat numbers of away fans and, again, directly complain to the club.

We need to get this right this season - BEFORE we go up !

[MasterNagus 0]

This is a big problem, and one that we will find gets worse, as we become an increasingly ''successful'' club. It was always the case back in the couple of years we were in the Prem - I often found myself sat close to opposing fans - Spurs and Leeds spring immediately to mind - and I''ve sat in most parts of the ground at some point.

West Ham is probably more problematic than most First Division clubs. There are a lot of London / Essex exiles in Suffolk and South Norfolk, and sad to say a lot of London / Essex wannabes too. So, geographically, its very likely that West Ham have a fan base in this area.
And frankly, if those supporters have purchased NCFC memberships at the start of the season, solely to secure tickets to see ''their'' team, what can be done? I don''t think it will be as much of a problem when we play the likes of Gillingham and Walsall.

What is a greater concern is if and when we go up, and suddenly hundreds of Man Utd, Arsenal, Chelsea and Liverpool ''fans'' invest in NCFC memberships. Not only is it a recipe for aggro, it also deprives City fans.

It has been suggested that anyone applying for membership / season ticket has to pass some kind of ''City test'' to prove their knowledge and interest in the Club. I have always opposed this simply because many people simply aren''t date and goalscorer anoraks, and it seems a bit harsh to penalise someone just because they don''t know who played full back against Inter or whatever. But I do wonder if there is something in this after all - what do you all think?

The other idea I''ve heard is to base it on geographical location - for example, people living within 50 miles of Norwich getting priority. But, with so many exiled fans, I can''t see that working. We simply cannot penalise a genuine fan simply because his job means living in Birmingham!

I''d be interested to see what other posters think.

[BES 0]

I live in Bedford and travel to most home games and away games........
which is a 200+ round trip, You simply can not penalise fans who live over 50+ miles
away..................

[BH0201 0]

Of course, no Norwich fans did that at Wimbledon the other week?

People in glass houses etc.

Craig

[MadDan 0]

Wimbledon was not a sellout with numerous home fans denied a seat

Any seats taken by Norwich fans would otherwise have been empty - this was not so on saturday

[Archie 0]

All those who feel annoyed,i sympathise with you.but one question, if next season away games are sold out and the only way you could watch a game was to pay a few quid exta and sit in the home areas, would you???and be honest - i certainly would,as much as it may be annoying that other fans sit on carrow road home sections

[DumbleDelia is Magic 0]

I see your point Archie. But if you take the Dons game as an example, we weren''t denying Wimbledon fans a seat. It just so happened that there were seats which would have been unsold so we snapped them up. I think this case is slightly different in that it was a sell out and those Hammers fans in the home part of the south stand were taking up seats which city fans could have sat in. I know it seems a bit like double standards because we did it at Wimbledon, but I think these are two very different examples of whether away fans should be in the home end

[Archie 0]

to all those who have complained, if offered a ticket in a home area at Old Trafford next season,would you take it????
wimbledon is entirely different,but this scenario isn''t

[MadDan 0]

How odd it is that people will read a point, misinterpret it and then argue against that misinterpretation.

No fan is arguing against away fans getting what tickets they can.

What is being pointed out is the danger and bad will that it causes. It is the club rather than away fans we have an issue with. It is now up to the club to deal with this problem.

All season tickets must be made non transferable.

It would allow the club to eject away fans in home areas.

It would then stop touts selling the seat each week to the highest bidder.

Whilst allowing someone else to use your season ticket will go on, the above restrictions will alllow the club to act on the day if required.

This action will be very necessary come next season if we go up.

Whilst we are winning virtually every home game at the moment this may well not be the case next season and having away fans amongst us shouting out taunts will only lead to confrontation and, sadly I suggest, violence .

I strongly urge every fan to contact the club to ensure we are prepared for next season.

[BH0201 0]

Dan,

Is the Norwich fan in a Wimbledon seat not a danger as was your first point? What''s good for the goose is good for the gander.

I admit that Wimbledon fans were not denied a seat but I fail to see how the West Ham fans were dangerous but the Norwich fans were not.

Craig

[MadDan 0]

You are not really bothering to read my posts are you ?

Fans will always attempt to watch their team - that''s what fans do (please read above)

It is up to the clubs to moderate that behaviour.

Much of the antagonism is seeing an away fan in a seat that should be for a home fan.

Sure there could have been trouble between City and Wimbledon fans which again highlights the failure of a club to deal sensibly with a potential problem.

So stop trying to make pointless jibes and understand where the real problem lies.

Look at the cause not the effect.

[Pyro Pete 2,266]

MadDan. I agree with a lot of what you are saying. Touts should be stopped. ANY fan (home or away) causing trouble, threatening violence or intimidating those around them should be dealt with by the stewards/police.
But, on the few occasions I have been to away matches it has often been because I am visiting a relative or mate who lives in that city, like Manchester, Liverpool or London. So I''ve ended up sitting next to my relatives or mates who are season ticket holders of that club, in the home fans section. I''ve found that if I have a chat with those fans around me before the match, enjoy a bit of friendly banter, and don''t act like an arrogant arse nobody minds one bit.

I can''t help but think you are being too extreme by saying an away fan has to be thrown out just because he/she is sitting in a home seat.

[BH0201 0]

I don''t see it as pointless at all. I am pointing out it is hypocritical to condemn West Ham fans for this but at the same time knowing full well that Norwich fans and every other team has fans that would do the same.

Both Norwich and Wimbledon did deal with it. Both had restrictions on how tickets were sold but people circumvented them. Just exactly what do you want NCFC to do in addition to the membership scheme?

[Ali Bunkall 0]

Agree with everything but re the wimbledon game, those canary fans who travelled down and bought a ticket on the door so to speak didn''t know whether or not the ground would be full. It is annoying, but also depends on how away fans sitting in the home section behave. if they behave well and with respect then maybe we shouldn''t get so annoyed about it. If on the other hand they gloat, shout and cause trouble then they aren''t welcome.

[MadDan 0]

Craig

You are still arguing against a point that has not been made. I, nor anyone else on this thread, is condemming West Ham fans for buying tickets. In fact if you had bothered to read what I posted then you would see that I was laying the blame solely at the feet of the club.

Wimbledon did not deal with it. In fact so desperate are they for money they would have let anyone in. Something it appears they did on the day.

I''m not sure why it is necessary to repeatedly post something before it sinks in but here goes.

If we go up all games will be sellouts. Therefore a system will be in place to ensure seats are allocated to regular Norwich fans. There is a system whereby away fans have an amount.

Given that thousands of City fans were denied access to their own ground the club needs to deal with this issue now - as it appears it causes anger and possible violence allowing away fans in home areas then the club must take action to avoid this.

Stipulated on the conditions of purchase should be the ruling that seats are non transferable. So anyone buying a season ticket to flog it on every fortnight will forfeit that ticket.

Casual tickets are sold on the understanding that they are for home fans. Any away fan in a home area will be ejected and the membership used to purchase that ticket will be cancelled.

The technology is there - I can only wonder if the will is there to match it.

[fishbulbman 0]

i''ve just read neil doncaster''s comments on pink un news. he says that there''s nothing they can do about itand has no control over whose hands the tickets end up in. this is clearly nonsense. they know the name and address of everyone buying tickets - even more so in this case because the tickets must have been bought by members. quite simply if members are buying tickets and selling them on or giving them away to rivall fans then they are banned from future ticket sales. i have no argument here with hammers'' fans who quite rightly wanted to see their team.

[Big Jim 0]

What should be of slightly more concern to Neil Doncaster, and is definately something he can do something about, is the fact that last week, before the west Ham game, i was talking to a mate from work who happens to be a West Ham fan. I asked him whether he had a ticket and he replied yes, which surprised me as he never goes to Upton Park so couldn''t have been allocated an official away seat. When i asked him how he had managed to get a ticket i was even more shocked. He is mates with someone at Carrow Road apparently, and this person had got him two tickets in the New Stand knowing full well that he was a West Ham fan! Methinks some sort of enquiry is in order Mr Doncaster if your staff are pulling pranks like that.

[ca 1]

Big Jim,
If this is the case I suggest you give the EEN a ring,there is an article about this thread in there tonight and I think they would be most interested!

[gazzathegreat 0]

if this is true it is a real disgrace

i have lost count of the times i have tried to get casual tickets for games in the box office, only for some smug person to look over at me, and others, with an oh so patronising grin saying;

"you should have bought season tickets"

well, news to you mate, we don''t all have the money, or have other commitments to work, families - so season tickets are out for a lot of people - we all know the freebies system is rife, players and staff get complimentary tickets, but if some were handed to a known west ham then doncaster should certainly be made aware of it

i am sure several w ham fans were in home areas and didn''t cause any trouble, so well done to them, but for someone at Carrow Road to give away two tickets for such a high demand match makes you think a bit eh? But can''t say it surprises me

[Pape Diop 0]

I waas sitting in the south stand for the west ham game and had west ham fans either side. Not that I was happy about it but at least when they scored they were discreet about it as they were throughout most of the game! Still you have got to question some Norwich members!!!!

[Archie 0]

i was not at the game so do not know exactly what happened,but i am not too bothered by people who come being friends of noriwch supporters, ie they sit with them.what gets me is if they are simply given away,or if their norwich friends are not there

[NMTD 0]

To me - it can only be addressed if the supporter causes trouble. If this is the case, and the trouble maker can be caught and their seat number established then action can be taken against that person and potentially the source of the ticket.

I have a season ticket so I am not familiar with member / casual purchase rules but i''m making assumption that if a member, then the club knows the name/address in relation to the ticket bought. For casual purchases by a non member - is your name/address taken?

My proposals pretty much rely on the club knowing the name/address for every home ticket purchased, which when there are only 2-3,000 non season ticketed seats, of which the majority will be bought by members, asking for this info when tickets are bought by non-members shouldn''t be that much of an administrative burden. Either that or we introduce a ''members only'' policy for home tickets which is a tough choice.

1) Season tickets being ''lent'' to friends and family - one assumed that season tickets can''t get into the hands of unknown (to the season ticket holder) casual supporter, so if that season ticket holder lends their ticket to an ''away'' supporter there''s not alot that can be done to stop that person attending the match. However, if that casual supporter causes trouble - be they ''home'' or ''away'' then it doesn''t seem beyond reason to think that the club could sanction the season ticket holder in some way - but such a sanction would have to be appropriate, as the perpetrator of the trouble should bear the brunt of the blame.

2) Match day tickets - bought by members but sold on to someone else that they know - similar to above.

3) Match day tickets - bought by members that end up in the hands of a tout or are sold direct to unknown supporters that then cause trouble - then remove that persons membership.

4) Match day tickets - bought by non members (that have name & address taken) - that end up in the hands of unknown supporters that cause trouble - do not allow future ticket purchases.

Problems 3 & 4 can be alieviated by a) working harder to stop ticket touting, b) making it easier to return a match day ticket that, for whatever reason, a casual fan cannot use. We have a buy back scheme for season tickets (Although its not that generous - why do we only get £5 credit when the club can sell on for £20+. We should at least get the pro rata value of the seat) and their must be a returns policy for casual tickets - but how well is this publicised?

The reason a casual fan will sell on a ticket to anyone when they discover they cannot attend the match themselves is because its hard to get their money back. If the club addressed this problem then they would at least be seen to be doing something, but we can''t think that this problem will ever by totally solved.

Is this too draconian - or would all supporters support such a move?

Of course when the government introduce a national id card scheme as they inevitably will, how about we have to state our supporting allegence - now that takes me back a few years to a certain M. Thatcher - and look how we (rightly) reacted then.

There''s certainly no easy answer to this.

[Nick Hammer 0]

Culverhouse at right, Bowen at left, from Nick season ticket holder Bobby Moore upper :-)