Paul Lambert Hasn't Got a Clue When buying forwards.

[BroadstairsR 0]

Holt and Martin are probably (IMHO) our best two. They were inherited,

Oli Johnson ... not good enough

McNamee ... described as an impact player, whatever that is supposed to mean. He''s either good enough or not and has been left out totally recently.

Wilbraham .. strange signing and certainly not appropriate for a team aspiring to promotion from the Championship.

Jackson ... a bit expensive for a "reserve." A bit of a disappointment actually.

McDonald ... not wanted by PL during the League 1 campaign, but no worse than his replacements.

 

My point: I hope if this Simon Cox signing comes off then our messiah will have finally got it right when signing a striker.

[CaptnCanary 0]

The past signings are called ''Working to a Budget'' and ''Working to who''s available''. Now he has £2m to spend we ought to see someone better come in but that may have to wait until the summer...

[nu_matik 167]

looking at Simon Cox''s strike rate on his wikipedia page. apart from one season at Swindon he hasnt exactly set the world on fire has he?

[BroadstairsR 0]

[quote user="CaptnCanary"]The past signings are called ''Working to a Budget'' and ''Working to who''s available''. Now he has £2m to spend we ought to see someone better come in but that may have to wait until the summer...[/quote]

 

If they are not good enough then they are not good enough, nothing to do with budgetting. They all get paid too, whether playing or not.

[The Young One 0]

Some people are born to moan.

[BroadstairsR 0]

Moan? Get real.

 

This is a relevant discussion regards NCFC at this moment in time.

 

Moan? I back PL to the hilt, but he has not got everything right. The same as you.

 

Discuss, rather than add one liners.

[John 0]

[quote user="BroadstairsR"]

Holt and Martin are probably (IMHO) our best two. They were inherited,

Oli Johnson ... not good enough

McNamee ... described as an impact player, whatever that is supposed to mean. He''s either good enough or not and has been left out totally recently.

Wilbraham .. strange signing and certainly not appropriate for a team aspiring to promotion from the Championship.

Jackson ... a bit expensive for a "reserve." A bit of a disappointment actually.

McDonald ... not wanted by PL during the League 1 campaign, but no worse than his replacements.

 

My point: I hope if this Simon Cox signing comes off then our messiah will have finally got it right when signing a striker.

[/quote]Lambert isn''t responsible for McDonald.Other than Wilbraham, for being a necessity in style and not potential, and McNamee, because he''s not a forward; i think Lambert''s objective with strikers is to not spend a disproportionate amount on an over-priced area of the side, because making room to buy Martyn Waghorn for £3 million, or £2 million on Ched Evans, or £2.5 million on Robert Earnshaw, isn''t necessary. History has shown as much. There are plenty of examples of cheaply purchased, or ''home-made'' strikers currently, or recently having, plied the trade in the higher echelons in the league, like Danny Graham, Shane Long, Kevin Doyle, Jermaine Beckford, David Somma, Ross McCormack, Andy Keogh, Chris McGugan, Luciano Becchio, and Marvin Sordell, and like so many managers at clubs of a similar level to us, it''s no surprise he''s conducted himself the way he has in the market, and retained the upcoming potential that is already here. It may take awhile for them to truly come good, but when they do, you''ll be laughing all the way to the bank on the back of the kind of money they can bring in.Lambert has shown faith in all of McDonald, Johnson, Jackson, and Martin, in spite of significantly poor runs of form shown by all of them, and there''s every chance that at least one of them will make the cut within the next year, and i firmly believe they''ve all got the talent to do so.Martin having scored 4 goals in his first 7 games with us, and his form last season was certainly noteworthy. McDonald is producing the kind of form in his early 20''s that Holt wasn''t able to only prior to instating himself as a hero at Carrow Road, with 30 goals in his first season. Having enticed interest and offers within the millions from clubs like Leicester and Fulham earlier in his career, Jackson''s early form here had him listed as one of the most potent attacking threats in the UK. Of course Johnson has shown his worth against Colchester, Southend, and even on his debut, where he rang rings around the Exeter players within the first few minutes of being brought onto the pitch. And for what it''s a worth, a Brighton fan i know said of Johnson that he was "absolutely phenomenal" last night when they played Yeovil, and that he''d have him at the Albion in a heartbeat if he could.They''re talented, but all rather young, though by the same token, not without the potential to be decent players at this level. These are the kind of players you dismiss at your peril, and if Lambert has faith in them, we''d be ill advised not to do the same.

[Mr Brownstone 0]

I guess it depends on your definition of a forward is, is it a team player who links up play between the front line and the midfield creating goals for those around him without being prolific (eg Heskey), or is it a player who is out for personal glory and is only interested in sticking the ball in the back of the net (eg Earnshaw). You have to keep in mind our budget when assessing our forwards, the latter command bigger fee''s and a player who has proven he can do both is almost certainly our of our financial reach.

 

Wilbraham falls into the Heskey catergory, I thought he was decent against Doncaster and is looking better with every game he plays. He was never brought in to score 20 a season, he was brought in to hold the ball up and link up play in Holt''s abscence or when required. For £75k-£100k it was a good piece of business in my opinion.

 

Johnson and McNamee were brought in primarily to help get us out of League One. Job done on both counts. Johnson is young and raw and with some experience could have a future at a level above League One, McNamee hasn''t taken the chances he has been given recently and is paying the price. I wouldn''t expect either to be in the squad next year if I''m honest but that wasn''t the reason PL brought them in.

 

I''ll concede that up to now Jackson hasn''t shown us his best, but neither did Iwan in his 1st season so don''t write him off yet. He has shown us glimpses of what he can do, he was a match winner at Bristol City and I think he''ll come good.

 

It''s harsh to say that PL hasn''t got a clue when buying forwards. He''s spent very little money on that position since he''s been here and his teams a full of goals.

[Smudger 0]

[quote user="John"][quote user="BroadstairsR"]

Holt and Martin are probably (IMHO) our best two. They were inherited,

Oli Johnson ... not good enough

McNamee ... described as an impact player, whatever that is supposed to mean. He''s either good enough or not and has been left out totally recently.

Wilbraham .. strange signing and certainly not appropriate for a team aspiring to promotion from the Championship.

Jackson ... a bit expensive for a "reserve." A bit of a disappointment actually.

McDonald ... not wanted by PL during the League 1 campaign, but no worse than his replacements.

 

My point: I hope if this Simon Cox signing comes off then our messiah will have finally got it right when signing a striker.

[/quote]Lambert isn''t responsible for McDonald.Other than Wilbraham, for being a necessity in style and not potential, and McNamee, because he''s not a forward; i think Lambert''s objective with strikers is to not spend a disproportionate amount on an over-priced area of the side, because making room to buy Martyn Waghorn for £3 million, or £2 million on Ched Evans, or £2.5 million on Robert Earnshaw, isn''t necessary. History has shown as much. There are plenty of examples of cheaply purchased, or ''home-made'' strikers currently, or recently having, plied the trade in the higher echelons in the league, like Danny Graham, Shane Long, Kevin Doyle, Jermaine Beckford, David Somma, Ross McCormack, Andy Keogh, Chris McGugan, Luciano Becchio, and Marvin Sordell, and like so many managers at clubs of a similar level to us, it''s no surprise he''s conducted himself the way he has in the market, and retained the upcoming potential that is already here. It may take awhile for them to truly come good, but when they do, you''ll be laughing all the way to the bank on the back of the kind of money they can bring in.Lambert has shown faith in all of McDonald, Johnson, Jackson, and Martin, in spite of significantly poor runs of form shown by all of them, and there''s every chance that at least one of them will make the cut within the next year, and i firmly believe they''ve all got the talent to do so.Martin having scored 4 goals in his first 7 games with us, and his form last season was certainly noteworthy. McDonald is producing the kind of form in his early 20''s that Holt wasn''t able to only prior to instating himself as a hero at Carrow Road, with 30 goals in his first season. Having enticed interest and offers within the millions from clubs like Leicester and Fulham earlier in his career, Jackson''s early form here had him listed as one of the most potent attacking threats in the UK. Of course Johnson has shown his worth against Colchester, Southend, and even on his debut, where he rang rings around the Exeter players within the first few minutes of being brought onto the pitch. And for what it''s a worth, a Brighton fan i know said of Johnson that he was "absolutely phenomenal" last night when they played Yeovil, and that he''d have him at the Albion in a heartbeat if he could.They''re talented, but all rather young, though by the same token, not without the potential to be decent players at this level. These are the kind of players you dismiss at your peril, and if Lambert has faith in them, we''d be ill advised not to do the same.[/quote]Excellent post John... [Y]I think all of our strikers excvept Cody will make it at this level (or above) and Cody will probably find himself doing ok in the 3rd tier.I rate Simon Cox too, but not sure that he is an improvement on either Martin or Jackson.

[Yorkshire Canary 118]

Well he managed to put a side together that put 7 past us last season!

[Smudger 0]

[quote user="Mr Brownstone"]

I guess it depends on your definition of a forward is, is it a team player who links up play between the front line and the midfield creating goals for those around him without being prolific (eg Heskey), or is it a player who is out for personal glory and is only interested in sticking the ball in the back of the net (eg Earnshaw). You have to keep in mind our budget when assessing our forwards, the latter command bigger fee''s and a player who has proven he can do both is almost certainly our of our financial reach.

 

Wilbraham falls into the Heskey catergory, I thought he was decent against Doncaster and is looking better with every game he plays. He was never brought in to score 20 a season, he was brought in to hold the ball up and link up play in Holt''s abscence or when required. For £75k-£100k it was a good piece of business in my opinion.

 

Johnson and McNamee were brought in primarily to help get us out of League One. Job done on both counts. Johnson is young and raw and with some experience could have a future at a level above League One, McNamee hasn''t taken the chances he has been given recently and is paying the price. I wouldn''t expect either to be in the squad next year if I''m honest but that wasn''t the reason PL brought them in.

 

I''ll concede that up to now Jackson hasn''t shown us his best, but neither did Iwan in his 1st season so don''t write him off yet. He has shown us glimpses of what he can do, he was a match winner at Bristol City and I think he''ll come good.

 

It''s harsh to say that PL hasn''t got a clue when buying forwards. He''s spent very little money on that position since he''s been here and his teams a full of goals.

[/quote]Yawn, yawn... [|-)]Typical City fan response, fuelled by the clueless and the media.  Have you passed a course in repeating Lakey''s one liners??? [:$]The constant whinging over what we already had landed us with the Wheeliebin playing 90 mins for many weeks and us dropping several points.  He clearly isn''t good enough for a team aiming for promotion in the 3rd tier, or aiming to stay up in the Championship.  Yet many deluded City fans are still championing his cause.  He is a pub footballer, that many semi-pro teams would not even look twice at.

[Smudger 0]

[quote user="Yorkshire Canary"]Well he managed to put a side together that put 7 past us last season![/quote]Yeah with Kevin Lisbie upfront!Wasn''t that one of Grant or Roeder''s inspired loan signings for us?

[BroadstairsR 0]

I accept all your criticism of my O/P and your constructive remarks.

 

However, we are in with a realistic chance of getting promotion and are, at this late stage, having to scratch around for a suitable striker because we don''t have one.

 

Eg. Robbie Blake and now Simon Cox.

 

What prevented PL not getting this class of player in earlier? He had the money ie. that spent on McNamee, Jackson and Wilbraham.

 

Please, I am not a critic of Lambert, but I re-iterate our forward line situation as it is at the moment could cost us promotion. Look at what Cardiff have at their disposal and they are basically no better than us overall, but will probably get promoted because of their firepower.

[BroadstairsR 0]

[quote user="John"][quote user="BroadstairsR"]

Holt and Martin are probably (IMHO) our best two. They were inherited,

Oli Johnson ... not good enough

McNamee ... described as an impact player, whatever that is supposed to mean. He''s either good enough or not and has been left out totally recently.

Wilbraham .. strange signing and certainly not appropriate for a team aspiring to promotion from the Championship.

Jackson ... a bit expensive for a "reserve." A bit of a disappointment actually.

McDonald ... not wanted by PL during the League 1 campaign, but no worse than his replacements.

 

My point: I hope if this Simon Cox signing comes off then our messiah will have finally got it right when signing a striker.

[/quote]

Lambert isn''t responsible for McDonald.

Other than Wilbraham, for being a necessity in style and not potential, and McNamee, because he''s not a forward; i think Lambert''s objective with strikers is to not spend a disproportionate amount on an over-priced area of the side, because making room to buy Martyn Waghorn for £3 million, or £2 million on Ched Evans, or £2.5 million on Robert Earnshaw, isn''t necessary. History has shown as much.

There are plenty of examples of cheaply purchased, or ''home-made'' strikers currently, or recently having, plied the trade in the higher echelons in the league, like Danny Graham, Shane Long, Kevin Doyle, Jermaine Beckford, David Somma, Ross McCormack, Andy Keogh, Chris McGugan, Luciano Becchio, and Marvin Sordell, and like so many managers at clubs of a similar level to us, it''s no surprise he''s conducted himself the way he has in the market, and retained the upcoming potential that is already here. It may take awhile for them to truly come good, but when they do, you''ll be laughing all the way to the bank on the back of the kind of money they can bring in.

Lambert has shown faith in all of McDonald, Johnson, Jackson, and Martin, in spite of significantly poor runs of form shown by all of them, and there''s every chance that at least one of them will make the cut within the next year, and i firmly believe they''ve all got the talent to do so.

Martin having scored 4 goals in his first 7 games with us, and his form last season was certainly noteworthy. McDonald is producing the kind of form in his early 20''s that Holt wasn''t able to only prior to instating himself as a hero at Carrow Road, with 30 goals in his first season. Having enticed interest and offers within the millions from clubs like Leicester and Fulham earlier in his career, Jackson''s early form here had him listed as one of the most potent attacking threats in the UK. Of course Johnson has shown his worth against Colchester, Southend, and even on his debut, where he rang rings around the Exeter players within the first few minutes of being brought onto the pitch. And for what it''s a worth, a Brighton fan i know said of Johnson that he was "absolutely phenomenal" last night when they played Yeovil, and that he''d have him at the Albion in a heartbeat if he could.

They''re talented, but all rather young, though by the same token, not without the potential to be decent players at this level. These are the kind of players you dismiss at your peril, and if Lambert has faith in them, we''d be ill advised not to do the same.
[/quote]

 

I would want our supposed two million to be spent on Ched Evans ASAP

[Mr Brownstone 0]

I think I''ll take Lambert''s opinion over yours if it''s ok with you Smudger, unless I missed your tenure as a league title winning manager.

[Lets be aving you! 0]

"Please, I am not a critic of Lambert, but I re-iterate our forward line situation as it is at the moment could cost us promotion. Look at what Cardiff have at their disposal and they are basically no better than us overall, but will probably get promoted because of their firepower."

Well, Cardiff have spent massively, including a reported 3 million on Chopra alone, and where will that lead them come the end of the season if they don''t go up. Very possibly in a big mess.

Jackson (600 k?), Wilbraham (100 k) and McNamee cost probably a third of that. Leaving aside the fact that McNamee isn''t a striker anyway ...

So a bit like comparing apples and oranges in the first place.

Our extra 2 million was only available last month, and I am more than happy to trust in Lambert''s judgement (implicit so far) that anything available at the moment isn''t worth it.

Sure, we could blow a load of money on an expensive loan, on someone who commands a load of wages and who will then be off at the end of the season anyway.

A more balanced view would surely cater for the fact that Chris Martin will (presumably) be back fairly soon, and particularly that Saturday''s team against Barnsley - with just one recognised striker - turned in about the best performance I have seen from Norwich this season.

[BroadstairsR 0]

I realise that I am probably the first poster on here to be critical of PL in any way, but I satnd my ground.

 

All you critics make valid points but, for a team in a position to gain promotion to the Prem., our forwardline is more lower Champs.

 

There have been some below average acquisitions, money or not.  We are left with our fair share of players to unload.

 

 

[Yorkshire Canary 118]

on a serious note Lambert has signed into double figures of players since he arrived and the vast majority have been successful and are worth more than he paid for them. Willbraham was a very cheap understudy for Grant Holt and in that regard is ok. He was never expected to score many and is imo mainly a squad player than a first choice striker.

Jackson is the only striker that has not come off and he still may, many players take time to settle eg Iwain Roberts was a flop in season 1 and russel Martin was being moaned at much of last season.

Mac Namee has done an impact job from the bench albeit although i thin he was a cheap league 1 signing for league 1 last year and will probably move on soon

[YellowOne1 0]

I agree with you our frontline is way short of top of the Championship , Holt has carried the forwards all season and if he gets a knock you can wave goodbye to promotion because we do not have another striker at the club who can put the ball in the net.

[Tangible Fixed Assets anyone? 0]

[quote user="Yorkshire Canary"]Well he managed to put a side together that put 7 past us last season![/quote]

WELL SAID!  LOL!

[Lets be aving you! 0]

True, we have some very average players generally at the club.

Some were Lambert buys (McNamee, Johnson) others weren''t (Gill, Tudur-Jones, Askou). Lambert has also been quickly moved on others with little future in his plans (Doherty, Nelson) or loaning them out to get them off the wage billl and into the shop window.

On balance, most of Lambert''s signings this season have proved extremely astute (especially Crofts and Ruddy) or very handy (Fox, Lansbury).

Jackson has certainly been disappointing, but suddenly spraying a load of money at that perceived "problem" will likely yield little and probably cost a lot. Especially when there are other options, like the essentially 4-5-1 formation fielded on Saturday.

A dozen games would also give an expensive Premier League-type arrival next to time to settle in, and he would potentially have little incentive to perform.

Star Premier-League loanee Marlon Harewood hardly set the world alight in his first performance for Barnsley on Saturday, his first effort on goal going for a throw-in.

[Tangible Fixed Assets anyone? 0]

Far too early to pass judgement on McDonald and Johnson as both need time on loan playing (90 minutes per match)  week in week out.

People shouldn''t forget that :Lambert tried to sign Holt for Colchester before being outbid by city.

As for Jackson, the size of the budget is relevant as it limits the quality of striker you can sign at the time.  Furthermore a player will fit into one style of play but find it difficult at another club with a different style.

With respect to Iwan, if my memory is correct, he didnt have a full pre season training when joined us. Furthermore he played with a toe injury (broken toe?) and in the end they had to stop playing him......the WBA defenders tried to rough him up in one game (near the end of the season), the Barclay gave Iwan vocal support and the ball hit the net....the rest is history.

[Tangible Fixed Assets anyone? 0]

[quote user="CambsCanary"]very average .[/quote]

very average = average ? 

Lol!

[PKC 0]

Prehaps if the title of your post wasn''t so deliberatly provocative people might br more likely to discuss; and lets not forget PL did try and sign Holt when he was at Colchester.

[Lets be aving you! 0]

"Lambert tried to sign Holt for Colchester before being outbid by city"

Yes, spot on, he did.

[anselin007 0]

Our forward line is lower championship...... perhaps thats because BroadstairsR we have come up from league one and were aiming to stay in the championship as our first target. Lambert has bought Jackson because it was a risk and sometimes risks pay off, the guy was scoring for fun in the league we just came out of  so why shouldnt we have gone for him? Oli J was bought in league one and has already chipped in with the goals that got us out - remembering that when lambert took over we were far from the top of the league and board had budgeted to have a year in league one. Holt was inherited but i remember Paul lambert also wanting holt at the time Bryann Gunn bought him. Wilbraham has cost pennies and is on a short contract - always was going to be an option player incase we needed height. Wasnt going to be playing every week but has had to come in due to injuries and as a consequence he has played along side the guy that is in style a carbon copy, was never going to be prolific. Mcnamee i would say perhaps hasnt done quite as well but like people say, the budget we have had Lambert has bought extremly well. If not quality he has given us numbers and options. Without these players being on the bench or around or club we wouldnt be getting the best out of the ones on the pitch - Competition for places works wonders.

[Lets be aving you! 0]

very average = average?

"very average": average as in its secondary meaning of "ordinary" (as in the quality of the reply elicited was very average).

Not as in its primary mathematical connotation (mean, etc).

Lol

[BroadstairsR 0]

I give in and wish to state that the intention of my post was NOT to be deliberately provocative.

 

I just think that our forward line is so weak, Holt apart, that when it comes to the inevitable crunch games we will pay dearly for lack of class up- front.

Mistakes: Johnson, McNamee, Jackson (?) Wilbraham (?)

 

All my critics: Please name me one successful forward signed by PL. Even Gunny gave us Holt.

 

Please simon Cox, prove me wrong.

[Lets be aving you! 0]

"I just think that our forward line is so weak, Holt apart, that when it comes to the inevitable crunch games we will pay dearly for lack of class up- front"

The forward line is indeed the weakest area of the team.

Conversely, the midield is our really strong suit, and our abundance of creative talent there is ideally suited to the 4-5-1 formation we played on Saturday. In that sense, Surman''s return can certainly make up for the lack of a partner for Holt (as against Barnsley), and I fully expect the same team to turn out against Preston.

If we were to lose the main man, Holt, we would most certainly struggle. Equally, if he stays fit, I would hazard that we will not. Such is football, it''s not possible to cover for every eventuality. How about an injury to Becchio for Leeds, Taarabt for QPR, Graham for Watford ...?

It would be fantastic to find a goal-scoring partner for Holt, but alas whatever is currently available will probably not cut the mustard, and will probably be extortionately expensive and uncommitted to boot.

The Simon Cox rumour is only a rumour, and one EDP journalist has already pretty much quashed it anyway.

As others have posted, a League 1 striker like Jackson was really all that was available within Lambert''s budget in the summer. The 600 k or whatever he cost would not buy a Ched Evans or any of the other supposedly lethal strikers being mooted hereabouts.

The fact remains that the 2 million transfer kitty has been in place only since January. There is therefore little scope for blaming Lambert for a failure to sign a star striker (especially when so many of his other signings have been very good), especially given that fees in the January window just closed tend to get overinflated

And the fees being asked for loanees in the current window are just as inflated, as PL has already clearly indicated.

[PKC 0]

I would agree with you as re far as that none of his forward signings have come off at this level yet! I would argue that Oli Johnson played a part in our promotion last season and seems to be getting in his stride again in league one where after all he was signed.

Another point I would make it is a bit early to write people off after less than a season let us not forget that the form of Iwan Roberts, by his own admission, in his first season was part of the reason Mike Walker got sacked.