Andy Gray sacked !!

[The Chirp 0]

*should not sound. Apologies!

[Old Shuck 183]

Andy Gray''s misfortune, if you can call it that, is that he is high profile and has been caught out!

For some reason, people who are high profile are expected to behave in a far more responsible way than us lesser mortals!

But things far worse than he has said are uttered everyday, in every place of work, leisure and the home. But people in those situations get away with it, and enjoy the laughter and reaction, so its perpetuated and it continues...

"The Sun" this morning tickles me. Their headline and inside (double page!) story bangs on and on about "Gray the perve", "Gray the monster", "Gray who letches and leers at women...doesn''t respect them...treats women as sex objects...disgusted...appalled..." etc etc.

But they will still have Lisa or Mary-Jo on page 3, who is there for, yes, men to letch and leer at and treat as sex objects! For their 30p!

[JKUIL 0]

[quote user="In Dubious Battle "][quote user="canarygirl"]What absolute tosh, the world has gone mad!  It`s no wonder we are no longer a great country.
[/quote]

What has the sacking of Andy Gray got to do with the decline of Britain as a world power?
[/quote]

Of course the sacking of Andy Gray is nonsense. The person who should be sacked is whoever placed the content of the conversation into the public domain. Seems to me that Gray has the right to sue Sky for breach of privacy, a law that was created following Max Mosley''s successful breach of privacy lawsuit against ............ the News of the World who of course Gray is already suing in relation to phone tapping. There''s alot more to this than meets the eye and I expect Gray and a team of lawyers to come out fighting. As for Canary Girl''s reference to "no longer being a great country" it seems clear to me, if not to you, that she is obviously saying that this absurd episode is symptomatic of a British society that has degenerated alarmingly into a pathetic, PC state - a country which I for one find it increasingly difficult to identify with. Of course Gray shouldn''t have said what he said but it was hardly extreme and was off air and private.Watching Bill Turnbull and Sian Willaims discussing the matter on BBC this morning made me, and the wife, reach for our sickbags. The whole thing has been blown up out of all proportion and should never have been made public anyway. Don''t get me wrong, I don''t have much time for Andy Gray as a football pundit/presenter but that it not the point, is it ? IMO Andy Gray has been stitched up like the proverbial kipper by Sky, whose owner also owns the News of the Screws, because they wanted him out and I hope he takes them to the cleaners.

PS my use of "the wife" (demeaning and possessive descripttion of a female partner) was deliberate because I knew that it would get quite a few people on here excited, if only briefly.

[Bethnal Yellow and Green 1,557]

[quote user="The Chirp"]I''m gutted for him. He''s a good guy and he''s clearly been set up. This kind of banter goes on in every studio across every channel. You could find video''s of every presenter out there.

The stuff about the lino was recorded on a talk back mic which are never recorded. - seems to me that someone might have been told to record it. Just my opinion.

What he said was wrong but he''s not being serious. All of them say the same. Only last week before all this happened I was with a high profile player who was saying worse about women in football. It was off the record but it goes to show... it''s just banter. This person is one of many to have come out since the sound bite was released saying it was terrible for Gray to say what he did.

I guess it will be a lesson for them all that you sound never say anything like that when mics are around.


[/quote]

I can''t agree I''m afraid. Listening to the recording there is nothing "jokey" or "banter" about it, neither of them are laughing or saying it in a light hearted way. Also dismissing offensive comments as banter is all well and good when everyone is involved, if they had of been talking directly to the woman in question and she had the chance to retort then that is banter, not making snide comments from aloft. Also banter should be reserved for outside of a professional situation. How were female crew members or colleagues suppose to feel about their future at Sky knowing two of the highest profile employees both believe women know nothing about football? The whole banter culture is fairly sickening in my opinion anyway, was it "banter" when Robbie Fowler taunted Graham Le Saux about allegations about his sexuality? Was it banter when Brain Clough refused to allow John Fashanu train with the other players after he came out? Was it "banter" when fans would throw bananas at black players? There is no problem with teasing a colleague about their dress sense or their poor taste in music etc, but when it crosses a line it shouldn''t be tolerated or brushed off with "well, everyone does it".

 

Also the context is very important, Gray and Keys are commentators and their position has been made untenable by themselves -- in the next game with a female ref or assistant how could they comment on their performace without seeming to have a prejudice? On top of which Andy Gray already knew he was in trouble for previous comments made to female employees and had received warnings about bullying in the work place. It is becoming clear this was an inside stich up job, especially as Sky News had the "exclusive" on the video clip of Andy Gray (hardly difficult as it came from their own cameras).

 

I''m guessing the professional you mention is Rio, but after his comments on the Chris Moyles show on Radio 1 his comments regarding Gray and Keys were laughed off by many.

[city-till-i-die 7]

I''m glad Andy Gray has been sacked after his sexist & ignorant comments on TV. Sky Sports should set an example & give his job to a female presenter. Preferably one with f*****g huge tits.

[morty 0]

[quote user="city-till-i-die"]I''m glad Andy Gray has been sacked after his sexist & ignorant comments on TV. Sky Sports should set an example & give his job to a female presenter. Preferably one with f*****g huge tits.[/quote][:D]

[Rudolph Hucker 0]

Nexus, I don''t understand why you found my analogy so contentions. As you go on to example it is all about empathy.

 

Many of the opinions on the worth of Gray and Keys are subjective and often based on personal like or dislike seperate from the behaviour under discussion.

 

The latest ''banter'' release involving Keys towards Jamie Redknapp is interesting in that Redknapp is apparently trying to find a response that doesn''t elevate the discussion, Ruud Gullit sits with his head down looking like he wants to be somewhere else and Souness looks embarrassed and finally gently nudges Keys with his foot.

 

We don''t know who else was present and what sex the members of the production staff were.

 

Keys will be mortified to see himself again and will wonder why he did what he did in a studio. Beyond that it is his place of work that he shares with others and over which his employer has a liability towards all of its staff. It was poor judgement by a person employed to be the anchor of the set.

 

Here is another acid test for you Nexus. When making comments or behaving in a certain way ask yourself whether you would be comfortable watching yourself back. If not, don''t do it.

 

On this message board most of us hide behind an anonymity and credit perhaps to those who do not. But, for those who do it might often be the case that within the context of their real lives they have to take care. I see Nexus received stick for spelling as a teacher and this is an example of how we are judged. On here Nexus is just another poster except that at some stage the teacher information was allowed to come out and therefore ends up as a qualification to be measured by. WITS makes a point of being a woman spectator so no doubt expects her gender to form a talking point.

 

It is a complex subject how people judge and evaluate one another, but we do. I generally believe though that there is give and take and tolerance. if there is not then the holder of the ''ism could simply be accused of using their difference to bully. Where matters come to a head there is often ''history'' with opportunity at lower levels for the perpetrator to reflect and learn. We apologise to one another all the time and it is usually enough. The best marriages work with equal but different partners conflicting and compromising....the making up is the best part.

[JKUIL 0]

[quote user="city-till-i-die"]I''m glad Andy Gray has been sacked after his sexist & ignorant comments on TV. Sky Sports should set an example & give his job to a female presenter. Preferably one with f*****g huge tits.[/quote]

 

Thanks for that, I just spat out my coffee all over my desk laughing !

[PurpleCanary 5,557]

[quote user="paul moy"]

[quote user="Gareth"]Andy Grey is currently going to court with the news of the world due to allegations of Phone Hacking. Coincidence that he goes against one part of Murdoch''s empire and is sacked form another? No wonder the tape was ''leaked''
[/quote]

Indeed. This looks more and more like a case of constructive/malicious dismissal. It will hinge on whether Charlotte agrees that his comments were ''office banter'' ie: the norm that just went a bit too far (as I believe) or deeply offensive, and if there was a problem here, did she complain. Who will she back, I wonder.... her employers or her colleague ?  A written warning would have sufficed IMO.

I have also read on another BB that Gray has been involved in getting other colleagues sacked, so it would appear that this action has been malicious.

[/quote]

 

---

 

I was waiting for the conspiracists to arrive with the "It''s connected to the phone-tapping allegations" theory. Firstly, it is not as if Gray is the only "celebrity" taking or threatening action against News International. He is one of many. Sacking him hardly ends the affair. Nor does it sweep it under the carpet. On the contrary, it has only served to remind people of this scandal. A scandal which will see more people in jail.

Secondly, if the idea is that this is Murdoch (who doesn''t even - yet - own a majority stake in BSkyB) getting revenge on Gray, it is a funny kind of revenge. And also very stupid. For two reasons. The chances are this will make Gray more likely rather than less to pursue a case. More important, Murdoch''s plan to take over BSkyB is a politically hot issue.

 

Him somehow interefering in the affairs of a company he doesn''t yet own to get Gray sacked would lose him political support. And Murdoch is not politically stupid.

[JKUIL 0]

[quote user="Bethnal Yellow and Green"]

[quote user="The Chirp"]I''m gutted for him. He''s a good guy and he''s clearly been set up. This kind of banter goes on in every studio across every channel. You could find video''s of every presenter out there.

The stuff about the lino was recorded on a talk back mic which are never recorded. - seems to me that someone might have been told to record it. Just my opinion.

What he said was wrong but he''s not being serious. All of them say the same. Only last week before all this happened I was with a high profile player who was saying worse about women in football. It was off the record but it goes to show... it''s just banter. This person is one of many to have come out since the sound bite was released saying it was terrible for Gray to say what he did.

I guess it will be a lesson for them all that you sound never say anything like that when mics are around.


[/quote]

I can''t agree I''m afraid. Listening to the recording there is nothing "jokey" or "banter" about it, neither of them are laughing or saying it in a light hearted way. Also dismissing offensive comments as banter is all well and good when everyone is involved, if they had of been talking directly to the woman in question and she had the chance to retort then that is banter, not making snide comments from aloft. Also banter should be reserved for outside of a professional situation. How were female crew members or colleagues suppose to feel about their future at Sky knowing two of the highest profile employees both believe women know nothing about football? The whole banter culture is fairly sickening in my opinion anyway, was it "banter" when Robbie Fowler taunted Graham Le Saux about allegations about his sexuality? Was it banter when Brain Clough refused to allow John Fashanu train with the other players after he came out? Was it "banter" when fans would throw bananas at black players? There is no problem with teasing a colleague about their dress sense or their poor taste in music etc, but when it crosses a line it shouldn''t be tolerated or brushed off with "well, everyone does it".

 

Also the context is very important, Gray and Keys are commentators and their position has been made untenable by themselves -- in the next game with a female ref or assistant how could they comment on their performace without seeming to have a prejudice? On top of which Andy Gray already knew he was in trouble for previous comments made to female employees and had received warnings about bullying in the work place. It is becoming clear this was an inside stich up job, especially as Sky News had the "exclusive" on the video clip of Andy Gray (hardly difficult as it came from their own cameras).

 

I''m guessing the professional you mention is Rio, but after his comments on the Chris Moyles show on Radio 1 his comments regarding Gray and Keys were laughed off by many.

[/quote]

 

TBH what you say would only be relevant if Keys and Gray had known that what they were saying was being broadcast or would subsequently be placed in the public domain. The fact is that it was a private conversation so really there is no basis for being judgemental about the content. It''s all very well people counselling that if you would feel uncomfortable about private remarks being published you shouldn''t make them but we all slip up from time to time and if anybody listened into the conversations that my wife and I have in the car we would no doubt be pilloried by the growing PC stasi that we have in this country.  

[Bethnal Yellow and Green 1,557]

[quote user="Al Catraz"][quote user="Bethnal Yellow and Green"]

[quote user="The Chirp"]I''m gutted for him. He''s a good guy and he''s clearly been set up. This kind of banter goes on in every studio across every channel. You could find video''s of every presenter out there.

The stuff about the lino was recorded on a talk back mic which are never recorded. - seems to me that someone might have been told to record it. Just my opinion.

What he said was wrong but he''s not being serious. All of them say the same. Only last week before all this happened I was with a high profile player who was saying worse about women in football. It was off the record but it goes to show... it''s just banter. This person is one of many to have come out since the sound bite was released saying it was terrible for Gray to say what he did.

I guess it will be a lesson for them all that you sound never say anything like that when mics are around.


[/quote]

I can''t agree I''m afraid. Listening to the recording there is nothing "jokey" or "banter" about it, neither of them are laughing or saying it in a light hearted way. Also dismissing offensive comments as banter is all well and good when everyone is involved, if they had of been talking directly to the woman in question and she had the chance to retort then that is banter, not making snide comments from aloft. Also banter should be reserved for outside of a professional situation. How were female crew members or colleagues suppose to feel about their future at Sky knowing two of the highest profile employees both believe women know nothing about football? The whole banter culture is fairly sickening in my opinion anyway, was it "banter" when Robbie Fowler taunted Graham Le Saux about allegations about his sexuality? Was it banter when Brain Clough refused to allow John Fashanu train with the other players after he came out? Was it "banter" when fans would throw bananas at black players? There is no problem with teasing a colleague about their dress sense or their poor taste in music etc, but when it crosses a line it shouldn''t be tolerated or brushed off with "well, everyone does it".

 

Also the context is very important, Gray and Keys are commentators and their position has been made untenable by themselves -- in the next game with a female ref or assistant how could they comment on their performace without seeming to have a prejudice? On top of which Andy Gray already knew he was in trouble for previous comments made to female employees and had received warnings about bullying in the work place. It is becoming clear this was an inside stich up job, especially as Sky News had the "exclusive" on the video clip of Andy Gray (hardly difficult as it came from their own cameras).

 

I''m guessing the professional you mention is Rio, but after his comments on the Chris Moyles show on Radio 1 his comments regarding Gray and Keys were laughed off by many.

[/quote]

 

TBH what you say would only be relevant if Keys and Gray had known that what they were saying was being broadcast or would subsequently be placed in the public domain. The fact is that it was a private conversation so really there is no basis for being judgemental about the content. It''s all very well people counselling that if you would feel uncomfortable about private remarks being published you shouldn''t make them but we all slip up from time to time and if anybody listened into the conversations that my wife and I have in the car we would no doubt be pilloried by the growing PC stasi that we have in this country.  

[/quote]

Yes and no, if Gray and Keys had of made these comments in private and no one knew about them then it could be classed as a private conversation; but as soon as this conversation is in the public domain (no matter how it made its way there) then their positions are untenable as everyone knows what they are thinking.

 

Also I would argue this wasn''t a private conversation as the comments were made in a TV studio whilst they were surrounded by crew memebers and by sound technicians who heard through the microphones. This wasn''t a conversation in a car, it was in a work place, their workplace.

 

As a public figure you do have to be much more guarded by what you say, as people will pay a lot more interest to it. Whether they like it or not Gray and Keys are representatives of football, and this applies to them 24/7 not just when they are talking on camera -- it is a burden but one they are/were handsomely rewarded for. It is similar to an MP, you are never "clocked out".

 

The whole PC brigade is a seperate matter, its not as if these comments are borderline -- it is clear sexism and no arguement about it.

[Nexus_Canary 1,016]

[quote user="macdougalls perm"][Hahah - that obviously hit the mark then [:D]

Interrupted  [:)]

mis-quote - extra ''s'' and, ironically, you''ve missed the hyphen [:)]

supplemented [:)]

plural ''ands'' surely [:)]

Fine on an informal message board I feel [:)]

Anyway, was only supposed to be a bit of fun - we''re all City fans [Y]

[/quote]

I love how every keyboard warrior thinks themselves the grammar police !

Even better when people decide to incorporate my job !

Well buddy, next time I go to McDonalds I will complain to you that the fries don''t have enough salt or that there is not enough ketchup on my Big Mac.

 

Like you said, all fun and game ;)

[Ernie 0]

[quote user="city-till-i-die"]I''m glad Andy Gray has been sacked after his sexist & ignorant comments on TV. Sky Sports should set an example & give his job to a female presenter. Preferably one with f*****g huge tits.[/quote]

 

[writeronthestorm 4]

Had the referees assistant been a black man and Keys and Gray were making disparaging remarks about his ability to do the job because of that, I''m sure we would all agree with their sacking...

Yet, because it is a sexist remark, rather than a racist remark, some of the views on here is that it is ok.  Some of the views on here suggest a hierachy of abusive comments.

Way back in the day when people started to try and eradicate racism similar excuses about banter and context were probably used.  Thankfully, we moved past that and we have reached a point where racism is unacceptable.

We now find ourselves in a similar position with sexism: people may say it is banter or taken out of context, but it is clearly something we need to erradicate and sacking Gray and (hopefully) Keys will be a step towards that.

It is a progressive step in my opinion and I applaud the fact that Sky have had the nerve to remove 2 of their most iconic presenters.

[morty 0]

[quote user="writeronthestorm"]

Had the referees assistant been a black man and Keys and Gray were making disparaging remarks about his ability to do the job because of that, I''m sure we would all agree with their sacking...

Yet, because it is a sexist remark, rather than a racist remark, some of the views on here is that it is ok.  Some of the views on here suggest a hierachy of abusive comments.

Way back in the day when people started to try and eradicate racism similar excuses about banter and context were probably used.  Thankfully, we moved past that and we have reached a point where racism is unacceptable.

We now find ourselves in a similar position with sexism: people may say it is banter or taken out of context, but it is clearly something we need to erradicate and sacking Gray and (hopefully) Keys will be a step towards that.

It is a progressive step in my opinion and I applaud the fact that Sky have had the nerve to remove 2 of their most iconic presenters.

[/quote]I think you''ll find that the main difference is that racist behaviour is against the law, and you can be arrested and charged for it, whereas sexist behaviour isn''t actually illegal.

[writeronthestorm 4]

Which is exactly why I call this a progressive step

[The Young One 0]

[quote user="morty"][quote user="city-till-i-die"]I''m glad Andy Gray has been sacked after his sexist & ignorant comments on TV. Sky Sports should set an example & give his job to a female presenter. Preferably one with f*****g huge tits.[/quote][:D][/quote]Don''t agree with that.Has to be pretty as well, as just because someone has huge tits doesn''t necessarily mean you want to watch her.

[morty 0]

[quote user="writeronthestorm"]

Which is exactly why I call this a progressive step

[/quote]No mate, frankly its a load of old bollocks, to be honest. I''m sick to the back teeth of political correctness, the litigation society and "ism''s".

[JKUIL 0]

[quote user="morty"][quote user="writeronthestorm"]

Which is exactly why I call this a progressive step

[/quote]

No mate, frankly its a load of old bollocks, to be honest. I''m sick to the back teeth of political correctness, the litigation society and "ism''s".
[/quote]

 

Seconded

[writeronthestorm 4]

[quote user="Al Catraz"][quote user="morty"][quote user="writeronthestorm"]

Which is exactly why I call this a progressive step

[/quote]

No mate, frankly its a load of old bollocks, to be honest. I''m sick to the back teeth of political correctness, the litigation society and "ism''s".
[/quote]

 

Seconded

[/quote]

Are you both really saying that questioning someone''s ability to perform their job based upon their gender is ok? 

[morty 0]

[quote user="writeronthestorm"][quote user="Al Catraz"][quote user="morty"][quote user="writeronthestorm"]

Which is exactly why I call this a progressive step

[/quote]No mate, frankly its a load of old bollocks, to be honest. I''m sick to the back teeth of political correctness, the litigation society and "ism''s".[/quote]

 

Seconded

[/quote]

Are you both really saying that questioning someone''s ability to perform their job based upon their gender is ok? 

[/quote]Yes, in some cases it really is okay to admit that men do some things better than women, and vice versa, and no one should be afraid to be allowed to express that opinion.

[The Young One 0]

[quote user="writeronthestorm"][quote user="Al Catraz"][quote user="morty"][quote user="writeronthestorm"]

Which is exactly why I call this a progressive step

[/quote]No mate, frankly its a load of old bollocks, to be honest. I''m sick to the back teeth of political correctness, the litigation society and "ism''s".[/quote]

 

Seconded

[/quote]

Are you both really saying that questioning someone''s ability to perform their job based upon their gender is ok? 

[/quote]

Yep, wouldn;t fancy watching a man pole dance.

[Coelho 0]

[quote user="morty"][quote user="writeronthestorm"][quote user="Al Catraz"][quote user="morty"][quote user="writeronthestorm"]

Which is exactly why I call this a progressive step

[/quote]No mate, frankly its a load of old bollocks, to be honest. I''m sick to the back teeth of political correctness, the litigation society and "ism''s".[/quote]

 

Seconded

[/quote]

Are you both really saying that questioning someone''s ability to perform their job based upon their gender is ok? 

[/quote]Yes, in some cases it really is okay to admit that men do some things better than women, and vice versa, and no one should be afraid to be allowed to express that opinion.[/quote]Absolutely agree. But ultimately, it''s all about opinions and freedom of expression of those opinions. It wasn''t so much Andy Gray''s opinion, as the condescending way in which he presented it. As for my personal opinion, I believe there''s absolutely no reason why a woman can''t be as alert, as physically fit and as knowledgeable about the laws of the game as a male counterpart.

[writeronthestorm 4]

[quote user="morty"][quote user="writeronthestorm"][quote user="Al Catraz"][quote user="morty"][quote user="writeronthestorm"]

Which is exactly why I call this a progressive step

[/quote]

No mate, frankly its a load of old bollocks, to be honest. I''m sick to the back teeth of political correctness, the litigation society and "ism''s".
[/quote]

 

Seconded

[/quote]

Are you both really saying that questioning someone''s ability to perform their job based upon their gender is ok? 

[/quote]

Yes, in some cases it really is okay to admit that men do some things better than women, and vice versa, and no one should be afraid to be allowed to express that opinion.
[/quote]

In some cases perhaps, but definitely not this one

[morty 0]

[quote user="Coelho"][quote user="morty"][quote user="writeronthestorm"][quote user="Al Catraz"][quote user="morty"][quote user="writeronthestorm"]

Which is exactly why I call this a progressive step

[/quote]No mate, frankly its a load of old bollocks, to be honest. I''m sick to the back teeth of political correctness, the litigation society and "ism''s".[/quote]

 

Seconded

[/quote]

Are you both really saying that questioning someone''s ability to perform their job based upon their gender is ok? 

[/quote]Yes, in some cases it really is okay to admit that men do some things better than women, and vice versa, and no one should be afraid to be allowed to express that opinion.[/quote]Absolutely agree. But ultimately, it''s all about opinions and freedom of expression of those opinions. It wasn''t so much Andy Gray''s opinion, as the condescending way in which he presented it. As for my personal opinion, I believe there''s absolutely no reason why a woman can''t be as alert, as physically fit and as knowledgeable about the laws of the game as a male counterpart.[/quote]To be honest, I really don''t give a flying fig about his opinions, as far as I''m concerned he considered what he was saying to be private, would you like to have your private conversations recorded and made public? Its more about the whiney arses that feel they need to be offended on her behalf! I have no issue if she can do the job as well as a man, or maybe even indeed better. What I do have issue with is the fact that the FA are gagging to get more women into the game, just to be politically correct.On a slight aside, do you know that women have better peripheral vision than men? So perhaps they are better suited as linos.[:)]

[morty 0]

[quote user="writeronthestorm"][quote user="morty"][quote user="writeronthestorm"][quote user="Al Catraz"][quote user="morty"][quote user="writeronthestorm"]

Which is exactly why I call this a progressive step

[/quote]No mate, frankly its a load of old bollocks, to be honest. I''m sick to the back teeth of political correctness, the litigation society and "ism''s".[/quote]

 

Seconded

[/quote]

Are you both really saying that questioning someone''s ability to perform their job based upon their gender is ok? 

[/quote]Yes, in some cases it really is okay to admit that men do some things better than women, and vice versa, and no one should be afraid to be allowed to express that opinion.[/quote]

In some cases perhaps, but definitely not this one

[/quote]You asked a general question, I gave you a general answer.

[Bethnal Yellow and Green 1,557]

[quote user="morty"][quote user="Coelho"][quote user="morty"][quote user="writeronthestorm"][quote user="Al Catraz"][quote user="morty"][quote user="writeronthestorm"]

Which is exactly why I call this a progressive step

[/quote]

No mate, frankly its a load of old bollocks, to be honest. I''m sick to the back teeth of political correctness, the litigation society and "ism''s".
[/quote]

 

Seconded

[/quote]

Are you both really saying that questioning someone''s ability to perform their job based upon their gender is ok? 

[/quote]

Yes, in some cases it really is okay to admit that men do some things better than women, and vice versa, and no one should be afraid to be allowed to express that opinion.
[/quote]
Absolutely agree. But ultimately, it''s all about opinions and freedom of expression of those opinions. It wasn''t so much Andy Gray''s opinion, as the condescending way in which he presented it.

As for my personal opinion, I believe there''s absolutely no reason why a woman can''t be as alert, as physically fit and as knowledgeable about the laws of the game as a male counterpart.
[/quote]

To be honest, I really don''t give a flying fig about his opinions, as far as I''m concerned he considered what he was saying to be private, would you like to have your private conversations recorded and made public? Its more about the whiney arses that feel they need to be offended on her behalf! I have no issue if she can do the job as well as a man, or maybe even indeed better. What I do have issue with is the fact that the FA are gagging to get more women into the game, just to be politically correct.

On a slight aside, do you know that women have better peripheral vision than men? So perhaps they are better suited as linos.

[:)]
[/quote]

I feel the whole "private" matter is irrelevant, once it is out in the open it is public and cannot be ignored or brushed under the carpet. Andy Gray is a public figure, so he must realise that nothing he says is truely "private", it is part of the draw backs of being a public figure and a representative of football as a whole -- the up shot was he was getting a 7 figure salary to compensate him for the loss of his annonimity. No one forced him to be a pundit, he could have retired football and been as sexist as he likes in the comfort that no one would have been listening or cared but by putting your face out there you must take more care over your actions, at all times. By saying the things he did, whether in private or not, when they became public his position was untenable -- Sky had no choice but to sack him.

 

The FA aren''t expressly trying to get women into the game but there is a massive shortage of officials in England and Wales at the moment so they are "gagging" to get anyone involved. It has nothing to do with political correctness at all just an overriding need. Why else do you think refs who probably aren''t ready, like Stuart Atwell and Micheal Oliver (sp?) are getting fast tracked in?

 

The best thing to come from this whole hoo har is the FA being flooded with women interested in becoming officials, not because they are women but just because fresh talent is urgently needed.

[writeronthestorm 4]

[quote user="morty"][quote user="writeronthestorm"][quote user="morty"][quote user="writeronthestorm"][quote user="Al Catraz"][quote user="morty"][quote user="writeronthestorm"]

Which is exactly why I call this a progressive step

[/quote]

No mate, frankly its a load of old bollocks, to be honest. I''m sick to the back teeth of political correctness, the litigation society and "ism''s".
[/quote]

 

Seconded

[/quote]

Are you both really saying that questioning someone''s ability to perform their job based upon their gender is ok? 

[/quote]

Yes, in some cases it really is okay to admit that men do some things better than women, and vice versa, and no one should be afraid to be allowed to express that opinion.
[/quote]

In some cases perhaps, but definitely not this one

[/quote]

You asked a general question, I gave you a general answer.
[/quote]

true

[city-till-i-die 7]

[quote user="Planet X"][quote user="morty"][quote user="city-till-i-die"]I''m glad Andy Gray has been sacked after his sexist & ignorant comments on TV. Sky Sports should set an example & give his job to a female presenter. Preferably one with f*****g huge tits.[/quote]

[:D]
[/quote]

Don''t agree with that.

Has to be pretty as well, as just because someone has huge tits doesn''t necessarily mean you want to watch her.
[/quote]lol, wouldnt be looking at her face tho!!![;)]

[morty 0]

[quote user="Bethnal Yellow and Green"][quote user="morty"][quote user="Coelho"][quote user="morty"][quote user="writeronthestorm"][quote user="Al Catraz"][quote user="morty"][quote user="writeronthestorm"]

Which is exactly why I call this a progressive step

[/quote]No mate, frankly its a load of old bollocks, to be honest. I''m sick to the back teeth of political correctness, the litigation society and "ism''s".[/quote]

 

Seconded

[/quote]

Are you both really saying that questioning someone''s ability to perform their job based upon their gender is ok? 

[/quote]Yes, in some cases it really is okay to admit that men do some things better than women, and vice versa, and no one should be afraid to be allowed to express that opinion.[/quote]Absolutely agree. But ultimately, it''s all about opinions and freedom of expression of those opinions. It wasn''t so much Andy Gray''s opinion, as the condescending way in which he presented it. As for my personal opinion, I believe there''s absolutely no reason why a woman can''t be as alert, as physically fit and as knowledgeable about the laws of the game as a male counterpart.[/quote]To be honest, I really don''t give a flying fig about his opinions, as far as I''m concerned he considered what he was saying to be private, would you like to have your private conversations recorded and made public? Its more about the whiney arses that feel they need to be offended on her behalf! I have no issue if she can do the job as well as a man, or maybe even indeed better. What I do have issue with is the fact that the FA are gagging to get more women into the game, just to be politically correct.On a slight aside, do you know that women have better peripheral vision than men? So perhaps they are better suited as linos.[:)][/quote]

I feel the whole "private" matter is irrelevant, once it is out in the open it is public and cannot be ignored or brushed under the carpet. Andy Gray is a public figure, so he must realise that nothing he says is truely "private", it is part of the draw backs of being a public figure and a representative of football as a whole -- the up shot was he was getting a 7 figure salary to compensate him for the loss of his annonimity. No one forced him to be a pundit, he could have retired football and been as sexist as he likes in the comfort that no one would have been listening or cared but by putting your face out there you must take more care over your actions, at all times. By saying the things he did, whether in private or not, when they became public his position was untenable -- Sky had no choice but to sack him.

 

The FA aren''t expressly trying to get women into the game but there is a massive shortage of officials in England and Wales at the moment so they are "gagging" to get anyone involved. It has nothing to do with political correctness at all just an overriding need. Why else do you think refs who probably aren''t ready, like Stuart Atwell and Micheal Oliver (sp?) are getting fast tracked in?

 

The best thing to come from this whole hoo har is the FA being flooded with women interested in becoming officials, not because they are women but just because fresh talent is urgently needed.

[/quote]Of course the privacy is relevant! Everyone has the right to express opinions privately, whether they are a public figure or not! Privately I may express that my boss is a complete cock, but I would be horrified if it was recorded and played back to him!And do you really think that all these women that are applying to the FA have been secretly harbouring ambitions to get into officiating, or do you think it is mostly a knee jerk reaction? I know what I think is more likely.