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David Fox For England

Jackson instead of Martin

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the last few games martin has been lazy, poor and ofcourse hasn''t scored in a while. we''ve seen what jackson can do infront of goal with a few great finishes as well as seeing what he can''t do with a few terrible misses.

jackson comes off the bench and works hard and martin seems to think he has his place in the starting 11 week in, week out.

if lambert played jackson more often it would give the lad more of a chance and also make chris martin work harder for his place.

what are your views?

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For me too often Jackson loses the ball whilst in possession, whereas Martin will hold on or get a pass away. Martin is also more physically imposing. However, Jackson has got speed on his side and a great agility. I think Martin offers more to the side but we need him back to his best and if that means resting him, then Jackson is the next best deal.

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I do agree with you in some respects, Martin was poor yesterday, but having this discussion on the drive home the point I made is that at least Martin, when he isn''t scoring, does contribute in other ways, linking play with Hoolahan in particular, whereas Jackson basically contributes nothing if he doesn''t score and has been very poor the last few times I''ve seen him.

A change may not be a bad thing, I''m tempted to say that we need a look at Wilbraham for a couple of games, but ultimately I have alot of faith in Lambert''s selections so I''m not criticising his selections at all, but I do think it''s a position we need to strengthen if we''re going to stay in contention for the top two.

The state of the pitches in the last two away games haven''t helped us though, especially our ball players like Martin and Wes and before that everyone played very well at home to Cardiff, so maybe on Tuesday Chrissy will show a bit more of what he can do because overall I still think he''s our best option with Holty.

''

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[quote user="Largey"]For me too often Jackson loses the ball whilst in possession, whereas Martin will hold on or get a pass away. Martin is also more physically imposing. However, Jackson has got speed on his side and a great agility. I think Martin offers more to the side but we need him back to his best and if that means resting him, then Jackson is the next best deal.[/quote]

totally agree

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i am a big fan of chris martin however he has really disappointed this season with few little sparks of real quality. jackson needs to be playing games though and if we were to get a new striker in before the deadline i think jackson should definately go out on loan to league 1.

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As strange as this may seem, but I don''t think that Jackson suits are style. Holt is the big man, but he is not a big man who flicks on the ball sort of player and we don''t play with a lot of width, so no crosses really come in except from the full backs.

Also, we seem to play nice and neat football in small triangles, I think that Jackson suits the long ball through of a big man or the the Scholes type passes. He is a confidence player too.

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I don''t get to many games but the amount of times I heard yesterday ''and Martins given the ball away''! Whenever I have seen him play he seems to give the ball away a bit too frequently and then doesnt seem to chase the ball back down to regain possesion.

Jackson is a confidence player as stated above, and I think many posters sometmes forget how hard it must be for him having to come off the bench and then put in a performance ( especially if things arent going our way, or we perhaps are having to play more defensively and are trying to hold on to rather than build on a lead), or starting when he is always going to be a bit rusty compared to other players. I think that the lack of reserve matches is proving to be a poor choice, especially for Simeon, the lad obviously has talent (as some of his goals have shown, and he has scored a similar amount to Martin I believe). I woulds really love to see Jackson play a few more games as I feel he has something to offer to the team, however the only problem is is that we arent really in a position to start giving players the benefit of the doubt. If I was in Lamberts shoes I would give Simeon one chance, against perhaps Preston or someone lower in the league (or against slower defenders), and tell him to prove his worth.

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i agree. ive posted on a few threads about the stats.

martin has played 10 games more, had 40 shots more and has still scored 4 league goals like jackson.

jackson is always quiet unless he gets it over the top, hes not the type of player to run back and get it from the midfield, which is why it looks like he does less than martin.

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It''s a real problem this. I actually think Jackson looks a more ''action'' player than Martin.

For me, Martin is most frustrating. We all know he has the skill and some say his game is not about charging all over the pitch. Fair enough but the least he could do is close defenders down. His body language worries me greatly but then I said that last year.

I''m not sure about Jackson and his first touch appears not to be great but as others have said perhaps he needs a run in the team particularly if we get Bennett. That signing may help our strikers.

If Lambo gets another striker in Messrs Jackson and C Martin immediate jobs will be bench warming

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Right now, Martin, Martin, Martin, Martin.

Those of you that say he is lazy dont watch the same game as me. I happen to remember lots of strikers full of running that have been aweful for us.

I also seem to remember Worthington left us with a team full of winning runners (lord knows I would be happy to do nothing but run around a pitch for £2k a week!).

What Martin has is class. He quite clearly needs a goal, not class. He needs a little bit of luck, get that ball in the back of the net and he can lift his head and kick on.

Having said that he contributes hugely to our team. He is on the same level as Hoolahan and Lansbury as well as Holt and that helps a lot.

As for confidence players, can we afford to give Jackson a run of two or three games to get his confidence back when we are in an automatic promotion spot.

For me, all to often Jackson goes missing altogether. I don''t think some of the calls are that unfair when people say shouldn''t Cody be given the same oppertunity. How many did he score in the few appearances he made on our way down?

Don''t get me wrong, I think Jackson could turn good for us but he just needs to be that bit more intelligent with the ball and with his runs.

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As I say Chicken, this Martin thing seems to generate more discussion than most.

Those I go with to home and away games are of the opinion he has talent but are worried about, perhaps, his perceived lack of work rate if I can put it that way.

He is frustrating. Look at his efforts at Reading where he was really on top of his game. Then you consider some of his latest efforts particularly away from home and you are left wondering if it''s the same player.

Obviously Lambo has seen talent there but Martin has been dropped or subbed on a more regular basis than ever.

Bearing all this in mind plus his off field life I feel Chris may just be in the last chance saloon.

Beware the smiling assassin!!

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[quote user="Bury Yellow"]As I say Chicken, this Martin thing seems to generate more discussion than most. Those I go with to home and away games are of the opinion he has talent but are worried about, perhaps, his perceived lack of work rate if I can put it that way. He is frustrating. Look at his efforts at Reading where he was really on top of his game. Then you consider some of his latest efforts particularly away from home and you are left wondering if it''s the same player. Obviously Lambo has seen talent there but Martin has been dropped or subbed on a more regular basis than ever. Bearing all this in mind plus his off field life I feel Chris may just be in the last chance saloon. Beware the smiling assassin!![/quote]

 

As you know,I''m a huge Chrissy admirer, but he really does look out of sorts, and, while he has tried hard, I thought his head was dropping a bit yesterday. The problem is that, even off his best, he looks a better bet than Jackson, who looks to be a one trick pony, and Wilbraham who holds up well, but doesn''t seem to win the crucial headers. I really think we need someone else to take the weight of Holt.

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[quote user="chicken"]Right now, Martin, Martin, Martin, Martin. Those of you that say he is lazy dont watch the same game as me. I happen to remember lots of strikers full of running that have been aweful for us. I also seem to remember Worthington left us with a team full of winning runners (lord knows I would be happy to do nothing but run around a pitch for £2k a week!). What Martin has is class. He quite clearly needs a goal, not class. He needs a little bit of luck, get that ball in the back of the net and he can lift his head and kick on. Having said that he contributes hugely to our team. He is on the same level as Hoolahan and Lansbury as well as Holt and that helps a lot. As for confidence players, can we afford to give Jackson a run of two or three games to get his confidence back when we are in an automatic promotion spot. For me, all to often Jackson goes missing altogether. I don''t think some of the calls are that unfair when people say shouldn''t Cody be given the same oppertunity. How many did he score in the few appearances he made on our way down? Don''t get me wrong, I think Jackson could turn good for us but he just needs to be that bit more intelligent with the ball and with his runs.[/quote]

Spot on.  However the point no-one mentions is that Jackson gives you an option later in the game.  Play him from the start when defenders are fresh and chances are they''ll pocket him.  What Jackson offers is a quick pair of fresh legs off the bench when defenders are knackered - when youve been bullied and pummelled by Holt and Martin for an hour, the last thing you want is someone running at you full pelt.  Same thing with MacNamee

I would rate Martin over Jackson but without a doubt Jackson was the point saver v Reading - it gave us an out-ball, something for defenders to think about and not just push forward as they had for 20 minutes at the start of the 2nd half.  I think if Lambert had bought Jackson on when Readings 2nd goal went in, we would have won the game, not just ended up with a point.   

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I do think we need someone else who can play upfront - someone who has proven they can do it at this level.

 

Although Grant Holt has got quite a few goals he isn''t going to be getting on the scoresheet every other game so we do need someone else who can stick a few away.

 

Wilbraham obviously doesn''t look like he''s going to get many goals but will just "do a job".

 

At the moment Simeon Jackson still doesn''t look like a great fit for us but who knows, maybe he''s one of these players who needs a season to settle down and get used to the way his team mates play and learn what is required of him. Then again maybe he''s not...

 

I expected Chris Martin to have scored more than he has this season but, despite his obvious natural ability, it hasn''t happened. He''s always going to be an intelligent player but I just wonder if he lacks that yard of pace and/or strength/power to really hurt teams.

 

Plus, I don''t really think that Chris Martin sees Wilbraham and Jackson as genuine threats to his place. I think he knows that he is a better player than both of then and the manager has given him plenty of praise so he''ll fancy that when push comes to shove he''s above them in the pecking order. Would bringing in a new striker, someone with a better record at this level, maybe give Martin a bit of a kick up the arse?

 

At the moment the forwards aren''t scoring and it looks very much like we need a new option.

 

 

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[quote user="GJP"]

I do think we need someone else who can play upfront - someone who has proven they can do it at this level.

 

Although Grant Holt has got quite a few goals he isn''t going to be getting on the scoresheet every other game so we do need someone else who can stick a few away.

 

Wilbraham obviously doesn''t look like he''s going to get many goals but will just "do a job".

 

At the moment Simeon Jackson still doesn''t look like a great fit for us but who knows, maybe he''s one of these players who needs a season to settle down and get used to the way his team mates play and learn what is required of him. Then again maybe he''s not...

 

I expected Chris Martin to have scored more than he has this season but, despite his obvious natural ability, it hasn''t happened. He''s always going to be an intelligent player but I just wonder if he lacks that yard of pace and/or strength/power to really hurt teams.

 

Plus, I don''t really think that Chris Martin sees Wilbraham and Jackson as genuine threats to his place. I think he knows that he is a better player than both of then and the manager has given him plenty of praise so he''ll fancy that when push comes to shove he''s above them in the pecking order. Would bringing in a new striker, someone with a better record at this level, maybe give Martin a bit of a kick up the arse?

 

At the moment the forwards aren''t scoring and it looks very much like we need a new option.

 

 

[/quote]Good post. I get the terrible feeling that Martin is the type of character who likes being a big fish in a small pond & finds it difficult to motivate himself to perform at the top level.

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Chris Martin is like Andy Murray, great amount of skill however 1 little thing can effect their performance so much because of how they are mentally. In this case a lack of a goal is really effecting Martin, with a goal his confidence would go up, which doesn''t just mean he would be a bit better, he would move with the ball more and try to shoot a bit more. Once he gets a goal and has a good game I can see amazing things happening.

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Agree with whoever said Jackson doesnt really suit our style. He needs a team who knock it long into the channels or behind the defence, not like us who play it quite intricate. It doesnt help that teams often defend deep against us, meaning there is not space to run into. He is fast but not capeable of beating a full back because he doesnt have the trickery, just the pace. To me he is suited to league 1, maybe lower championship but not right for us. I think the Cardiff game told us quite a lot, when 1-0 down Lambert didnt bring him on.

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That has got to be a joke, Martin having his last chance?!!!

To be honest of all the strikers we have here right now if I had to choose four it would be Holt, Wilbraham, Martin and one other.

For me both Oli and Cody offer either the same or more than Jackson. It''s not that I don''t rate Jackson, just that I don''t see what he gives us that the others don''t. Cody is easily as quick and from what I have seen of him far more intricate and team playing.

Oli has more skill and has that unpredictable edge that can be an asset. Out of the three I would say Cody has been for us at least, more consistant. I really do hope that he will be given a chance next season whether in the Prem or in the Champ because I think there is another dimension to hm other than just pace. Of the highlights I have seen of him this season he not only seems to have an eye for goal but a good instinct of whether he has a good chance or if providing it to someone else has a better chance.

If we get in another striker, what does it say about Jackson? I doubt he will even be on the bench.

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Just heard the Lakey podcast & was interested to hear that they were discussing the merits of playing Hooly up front with Holt. I said in an earlier thread that, when teams defend against us in numbers, which they are doing more often now, Wes is the player most likely to cause them problems in the box. Skill is far more useful than outright speed against a packed defence. He can trick his way past defenders, slip the ball to Holt & has a good shot on him - was it Coventry he scored against a couple of years ago? With his right foot!!Worth a go I reckon.P.S. SDP reckons Bennett''s gone.

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[quote user="chicken"]That has got to be a joke, Martin having his last chance?!!!

To be honest of all the strikers we have here right now if I had to choose four it would be Holt, Wilbraham, Martin and one other.

For me both Oli and Cody offer either the same or more than Jackson. It''s not that I don''t rate Jackson, just that I don''t see what he gives us that the others don''t. Cody is easily as quick and from what I have seen of him far more intricate and team playing.

Oli has more skill and has that unpredictable edge that can be an asset. Out of the three I would say Cody has been for us at least, more consistant. I really do hope that he will be given a chance next season whether in the Prem or in the Champ because I think there is another dimension to hm other than just pace. Of the highlights I have seen of him this season he not only seems to have an eye for goal but a good instinct of whether he has a good chance or if providing it to someone else has a better chance.

If we get in another striker, what does it say about Jackson? I doubt he will even be on the bench.[/quote]The problem I always had with Cody and Oli was that they were great off the bench but unable to do a full 90. It may be that after a season starting for the Gills Cody will be up to starting and giving some real competition.

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[quote user="chicken"]That has got to be a joke, Martin having his last chance?!!!

To be honest of all the strikers we have here right now if I had to choose four it would be Holt, Wilbraham, Martin and one other.

For me both Oli and Cody offer either the same or more than Jackson. It''s not that I don''t rate Jackson, just that I don''t see what he gives us that the others don''t. Cody is easily as quick and from what I have seen of him far more intricate and team playing.

Oli has more skill and has that unpredictable edge that can be an asset. Out of the three I would say Cody has been for us at least, more consistant. I really do hope that he will be given a chance next season whether in the Prem or in the Champ because I think there is another dimension to hm other than just pace. Of the highlights I have seen of him this season he not only seems to have an eye for goal but a good instinct of whether he has a good chance or if providing it to someone else has a better chance.

If we get in another striker, what does it say about Jackson? I doubt he will even be on the bench.[/quote]Difficult to judge I know, but Cody''s goals looked bloody excellent on the highlights!

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Why do we need to play two up front??

How about hoolahan and Lansbury at the top of the diamond with holt in front of them, surman / croft on the left and Bennett / smith on the right, croft or fox defence mid.

there are plenty of goals in our midfield!

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Have to say I''m totally with Chicken on this one, Martin is still the No.1 choice. He hasn''t been great in the last two away games but has been part of some outstanding home displays v Cardiff and QPR before that and his link up play is vastly superior to Jackson. As others have said, Jackson is an ''over the top'' merchant and I think our standard of play is beyond just that. He needs to be more clever with his runs to get any joy at this level.

 

In the end I trust Lambo''s judgment on this one (and on most things!). Jackson had his chance earlier in the season and didn''t do enough to keep his place.

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