Chris Martin really got stuck in today

[Nexus_Canary 1,016]

[quote user="silver fox"]a load of dribble in red[/quote]You completely miss the point of everything I have said in your red pen abortion critique.All due respect its not about disagreeing its about the retarded nature in which you go about it !

[Nexus_Canary 1,016]

Silver Fox. Read this ( I doubt you will as you have a tendency to ignore or rather not understand what I talk about ) and  actually create a concice and decent arguement as to WHY Chris Martin should actually be dropped.If you can manage this then I will be the first person to say, Ok fair enough point made. Until you actually manage this I will consider to berate you when you post dribble regarding Chris Martin.Stop watching Martin and expecting him to run through with the ball and score goals.Watch his link up and control.He is second to none in our squad.Ok the arguement of "hes a stiker he should score" is god damn weak and I will respond by saying"Russel

Martin is a Right Back he needs to defend not get out of position all

the blood time ! " which is frankly as stupid a comment as Chris Martin

is a striker he needs to score goals.

[Baldyboy 0]

i think part of the problem with Martin is the fact that there are no Reserve team games anymore. before you shout me down, this is why. He is one of our better strikers when he wants to be and therefore knows he is going to be in the 18 each week, whereas if we had reserve team football and the threat that he could be dropped to that level i think he would perform to a higher standard than he is at the moment. It says a lot to me when as people state he banged in goals for fun last year, which he did, but this year he has struggled in front of goal for some reason. Maybe a spell out of the team would benefit him, but that wont happen with the other strikers we have got as they arent up to it either at the moment. at the end of the day strikers are paid to score goals same as goalkeepers are paid to stop goals, and for all those who slate ruddy when he fails to stop goals this is exactly the same as Martin, he doesnt score enough goals at this level.

[star_manic 0]

it would seem from this and other posts, chris martin is our current "marmite " player. i personally love both marmite and chrissy, he just needs a confidence boost to get him back to the top of his game.

[LeJuge 0]

[quote user="Nexus_Canary"][quote user="LeJuge"]So what is he supposed to do whilst sitting deeper than Grant Holt? If he is playing a support role to a main striker then I would expect him to be able to play a through ball or some decent link up play.[/quote]Thats his bleeding strong points for crying out loud.He is probably the best link up player we have got. Spend some time and watch him on the ball, try to actually spot the GOOD moves he makes as opposed to the crappy ones.Seems that people see the 1% of mistakes and discount the 99% of the time he doesnt.Martin''s control is superb and he is often playing quick short passes and moving to space or freeing up players by dragging defenders and midfielders.I will say again, his link up play is second to none in our squad.[/quote]Are you saying that he is a centre midfielder then? If his strong points are link up play and playing quick short passes then he is a centre midfielder, only he can''t tackle either, so he really isn''t.I 100% believe that his inability to play a final ball is hindering Grant Holt''s goalscoring, he has set up 2 goals for christ sack, a deep lying forward has to be able to play a through ball. I do rate him, I really do, as a striker. But when he isn''t converting his chances he isn''t contributing much to the team. His strong point is his finishing, if you believe anything other than YOU are the muppet. When he isn''t in goalscoring form we aren''t benefitting from his ability. Chris Martin was touted about as a star because of his sublime ability to finish from pretty much anywhere in the 18 yard box. This year he isn''t doing it. That is the difference from a £500k striker and a £3m striker, unless he can play a role as a foil. When playing that role you have to create chances for the primary striker, that is Grant Holt. He isn''t doing that.You keep going on about your amazing football intellect yet fail to recognise the role of a deep lying forward, your holier than you attitude is failing you deeply. I used my female friends email address for this account, because I want to post anonymously, but I have played two seasons of football in the Blue Square Prem, a few games in League Two, before quitting a few years ago. I don''t claim to be blessed with insight, but I know enough about what happens on the pitch to know that Chris Martin is not currently fulfilling his potential. In fact, I would swap Grant Holt and Chris Martin around completely; if Chris Martin can finish, and Grant Holt can hold the ball up and create chances (which he can). Chris Martin desperately needs to add something to his game, whether it is an extra yard or two, or rediscovering the form which had us praising him last year.I like the bloke, I really do, but he is average at best this year and showing nothing which would suggest he could do a job in the league up.

[South norfolk canary 0]

Quite agree. Martin has a big attitude problem and the sooner he loses that the better.

[Go Wash Your Mouth Out Son 0]

[quote user="South norfolk canary"]Quite agree. Martin has a big attitude problem and the sooner he loses that the better.[/quote]

I wouldn''t say it''s that bad. I think that''s the sort of person he is and we have to deal with it, nobody is perfect. Hopefully Martin will find form again soon as I feel the longer he goes without a goal the more his confidence will be knocked and it will be harder for him to regain form.

[Trent Uni Canary 0]

one of the main reasons people dont like him or see the good he does is because he has a lazy looking running style and a lot of what he does is off the ball when people arent looking at him

[grantroederdisaster 0]

Like I said on here earlier Martin on his day is good enough for the Championship but has many days when he isn''t. Hes certainly not the wonder player some still tout him as but hes good enough to do a job for us at this level.

 

His lack of pace and consistancy are what will stop him from going higher!

 

As for atitude, yes he thinks hes god gift much in the same way that Chris Sutton did during his time with us but that arogance is a large % of whats meant hes good enough to be a pro footballer. Take that away and he''d be far less a player. Same as Bellamy, if he never had that horrible niggle about him he''d not be half as good!

 

Overall hes still above Jackson and Wilbraham who impressed me yesterday and looks like some traiing sessions at Colney have worked wonders for him!

[ricardo 7,385]

[quote user="Captain Holts Derby Day Hat-Trick"]First time I''ve come here since last night with all the Martin stuff I''ve been saying, and at last some people are backing up my points. The people who think he''s the dogs goolies need to realise that they aren''t necessarily right.[/quote]

Well I think he''s the dogs goolies and based on 55+ years of watching City youngsters come into the team I was more than confident on first viewing that he would make the grade. I was equally confident on first viewing that Sutton, Fox and Gordon were good enough and that people like Danny Crowe, Broughton  etc weren''t.I am also confident that Ollie Johnson and Cody McDonald will never make it at this grade. You might think it a bit Bolshy of me to make such catergorical statements but when I''m proved wrong you can tell me.

[Phillip J Fry 0]

[quote user="silver fox"]

[quote user="Nexus_Canary"][quote user="Captain Holts Derby Day Hat-Trick"]Why do you keep insulting our intelligence? Because we don''t agree with you? [/quote]No because the average person doesnt understand how the game works.  I guess you are saying you do understand how the game works, hence your previous comment about "Nial strikers need ghouls".  I have to admit I have no idea what that statement means, or what game you are referring to.People are quick to insult women who dont know what offside is when they themselves dont really understand what link up play is.I find it vastly frustraiting when people dont get it. Where is the link to women not knowing about offside and link up play.  Are you taking any form of medication?The same mongers who were saying Holt was a sack of crap at the start of the season are now picking on Chris Martin.[/quote] I think you should stick to your school work and whatever fantasy books you read Nexus.  If I seriously thought you knew anything about football then I would continue to correspond, but sadly from your recent comments it appears you talk a good game, but that game isn''t football.  You will be telling us about goblins and fairies next.

Finally, are you related to Chris Martin?

[/quote]I want to hear some structured and logical arguments from you. At least other posters (both pro and anti Martin) are making valid arguments. You''re just occasionally popping in to insult those who don''t agree with you.

[grantroederdisaster 0]

I agree that Johnson will never do much at this level but I think that Macdonald would of done more than Jackson has and he scored yesterday!

[LeJuge 0]

[quote user="ricardo"][quote user="Captain Holts Derby Day Hat-Trick"]First time I''ve come here since last night with all the Martin stuff I''ve been saying, and at last some people are backing up my points. The people who think he''s the dogs goolies need to realise that they aren''t necessarily right.[/quote]

Well I think he''s the dogs goolies and based on 55+ years of watching City youngsters come into the team I was more than confident on first viewing that he would make the grade. I was equally confident on first viewing that Sutton, Fox and Gordon were good enough and that people like Danny Crowe, Broughton  etc weren''t.I am also confident that Ollie Johnson and Cody McDonald will never make it at this grade. You might think it a bit Bolshy of me to make such catergorical statements but when I''m proved wrong you can tell me.[/quote]I believe that Cody McDonald will play Championship football again. You talking about a bloke who was a scaffolder 2 years ago and has scored 12 in 19 games in professional football. Chris Martin only banged in 11 in an entire season, remember?Out of interest, what did you think about Paul Hayes?

[Phillip J Fry 0]

[quote user="LeJuge"][quote user="Nexus_Canary"][quote user="LeJuge"]So what is he supposed to do whilst sitting deeper than Grant Holt? If he is playing a support role to a main striker then I would expect him to be able to play a through ball or some decent link up play.[/quote]Thats his bleeding strong points for crying out loud.He is probably the best link up player we have got. Spend some time and watch him on the ball, try to actually spot the GOOD moves he makes as opposed to the crappy ones.Seems that people see the 1% of mistakes and discount the 99% of the time he doesnt.Martin''s control is superb and he is often playing quick short passes and moving to space or freeing up players by dragging defenders and midfielders.I will say again, his link up play is second to none in our squad.[/quote]Are you saying that he is a centre midfielder then? If his strong points are link up play and playing quick short passes then he is a centre midfielder, only he can''t tackle either, so he really isn''t.I 100% believe that his inability to play a final ball is hindering Grant Holt''s goalscoring, he has set up 2 goals for christ sack, a deep lying forward has to be able to play a through ball. I do rate him, I really do, as a striker. But when he isn''t converting his chances he isn''t contributing much to the team. His strong point is his finishing, if you believe anything other than YOU are the muppet. When he isn''t in goalscoring form we aren''t benefitting from his ability. Chris Martin was touted about as a star because of his sublime ability to finish from pretty much anywhere in the 18 yard box. This year he isn''t doing it. That is the difference from a £500k striker and a £3m striker, unless he can play a role as a foil. When playing that role you have to create chances for the primary striker, that is Grant Holt. He isn''t doing that.You keep going on about your amazing football intellect yet fail to recognise the role of a deep lying forward, your holier than you attitude is failing you deeply. I used my female friends email address for this account, because I want to post anonymously, but I have played two seasons of football in the Blue Square Prem, a few games in League Two, before quitting a few years ago. I don''t claim to be blessed with insight, but I know enough about what happens on the pitch to know that Chris Martin is not currently fulfilling his potential. In fact, I would swap Grant Holt and Chris Martin around completely; if Chris Martin can finish, and Grant Holt can hold the ball up and create chances (which he can). Chris Martin desperately needs to add something to his game, whether it is an extra yard or two, or rediscovering the form which had us praising him last year.I like the bloke, I really do, but he is average at best this year and showing nothing which would suggest he could do a job in the league up. [/quote]If we''re going on pure stats than Chris Martin has more assists than Hoolahan

[Gingerpele 0]

Ricardo, have you ever looked into being a Scout? If you can spot talent like that, then surely it would be a good option....

[shefcanary 2,401]

Martin isn''t scoring lots at the moment ''cos Holty isn''t falling down just outside the penalty area enough and winning free kicks for "the best striker of a ball" at our club to score from.  You know it makes sense - its all Holty''s fault!

[ricardo 7,385]

[quote user="LeJuge"][quote user="ricardo"][quote user="Captain Holts Derby Day Hat-Trick"]First time I''ve come here since last night with all the Martin stuff I''ve been saying, and at last some people are backing up my points. The people who think he''s the dogs goolies need to realise that they aren''t necessarily right.[/quote]

Well I think he''s the dogs goolies and based on 55+ years of watching City youngsters come into the team I was more than confident on first viewing that he would make the grade. I was equally confident on first viewing that Sutton, Fox and Gordon were good enough and that people like Danny Crowe, Broughton  etc weren''t.I am also confident that Ollie Johnson and Cody McDonald will never make it at this grade. You might think it a bit Bolshy of me to make such catergorical statements but when I''m proved wrong you can tell me.[/quote]I believe that Cody McDonald will play Championship football again. You talking about a bloke who was a scaffolder 2 years ago and has scored 12 in 19 games in professional football. Chris Martin only banged in 11 in an entire season, remember?Out of interest, what did you think about Paul Hayes?Hayes? a journeyman at best. A reasonable career but below what I would call top Championship class.You can''t always tell by just watching them at reserve and youth level. I''ve seen lots look great at that level but look out of place immediately exposed to first team level. I remember Peter Mendham''s first game (christ, I''m old) and it was obvious within minutes he would be a good''un. Same with Sutton, Fox etc. Justin Fashanu was another, he took to the higher level like a duck to water but other prospects around that time eg Clayton, Rigby etc were totally exposed when given the chance.That''s what I mean about Cody. Looks great at his level but unable to shine when in with the big boys. The boy has a great attitude and should have a good career in League 1 or 2 but thats his limit. Jackson and MacNamee are in that same bracket. I had this argument several years ago when we re-signed Jamie lad. I remarked that not only was he past his best and overpriced but that his record showed he could not perform at the higher level. Many disagreed with me and although I liked Jamie because of his attitude I took no pleasure in being proved right.[/quote]

[Captain Holt 522]

Ricardo, I don''t think your''e being bolshy whatsoever. You''re stating your opinion and at the same time not shooting mine down. For what it''s worth I don''t think Johnson or McDonald will make it either.

You''re talking sense and stating your opinion, not being bolshy and dismissing everything like Nexus.

[LeJuge 0]

[quote user="Gareth"][quote user="LeJuge"][quote user="Nexus_Canary"][quote user="LeJuge"]So what is he supposed to do whilst sitting deeper than Grant Holt? If he is playing a support role to a main striker then I would expect him to be able to play a through ball or some decent link up play.[/quote]Thats his bleeding strong points for crying out loud.He is probably the best link up player we have got. Spend some time and watch him on the ball, try to actually spot the GOOD moves he makes as opposed to the crappy ones.Seems that people see the 1% of mistakes and discount the 99% of the time he doesnt.Martin''s control is superb and he is often playing quick short passes and moving to space or freeing up players by dragging defenders and midfielders.I will say again, his link up play is second to none in our squad.[/quote]Are you saying that he is a centre midfielder then? If his strong points are link up play and playing quick short passes then he is a centre midfielder, only he can''t tackle either, so he really isn''t.I 100% believe that his inability to play a final ball is hindering Grant Holt''s goalscoring, he has set up 2 goals for christ sack, a deep lying forward has to be able to play a through ball. I do rate him, I really do, as a striker. But when he isn''t converting his chances he isn''t contributing much to the team. His strong point is his finishing, if you believe anything other than YOU are the muppet. When he isn''t in goalscoring form we aren''t benefitting from his ability. Chris Martin was touted about as a star because of his sublime ability to finish from pretty much anywhere in the 18 yard box. This year he isn''t doing it. That is the difference from a £500k striker and a £3m striker, unless he can play a role as a foil. When playing that role you have to create chances for the primary striker, that is Grant Holt. He isn''t doing that.You keep going on about your amazing football intellect yet fail to recognise the role of a deep lying forward, your holier than you attitude is failing you deeply. I used my female friends email address for this account, because I want to post anonymously, but I have played two seasons of football in the Blue Square Prem, a few games in League Two, before quitting a few years ago. I don''t claim to be blessed with insight, but I know enough about what happens on the pitch to know that Chris Martin is not currently fulfilling his potential. In fact, I would swap Grant Holt and Chris Martin around completely; if Chris Martin can finish, and Grant Holt can hold the ball up and create chances (which he can). Chris Martin desperately needs to add something to his game, whether it is an extra yard or two, or rediscovering the form which had us praising him last year.I like the bloke, I really do, but he is average at best this year and showing nothing which would suggest he could do a job in the league up. [/quote]If we''re going on pure stats than Chris Martin has more assists than Hoolahan [/quote]He also has twice the strike rate of one of our strikers, Martin is being out-scored by Hoolohan, matched by Andrew Crofts, he has now been matched by Russell Martin. You need 40 goals from your strikers to get out of this division. If Grant Holt is going to score 20, who is going to get the rest? Martin has 4, Jackson has 4, either they pitch in with another 6 each or we are going to really struggle to break the top two. At the moment neither look capable of achieving that. I don''t care what it is that Chris Martin is supposed to be doing in the jigsaw, we need another goalscorer.

[Nexus_Canary 1,016]

The Failed French Guy from Hearts :

Firstly I have not claimed that Martin is a centre mid. I claimed that he has fantastic set up play. When Fox rattled the cross bar yesterday who was it who made the space ?

When Holt took a shot who was it who turned the defender and laid the ball into the box ?

Chris Martin is always in our attacking movements. Ok so he is not getting the goal or the final assist but he always takes part in the attacking play. If its dragging a defender away or just a bit of hold up or even a quick short pass to someone in space. He is always there and always moving the ball around.

Yes there are arguments to say that he is not at his full potential and I somewhat agree he should be getting goals, but he is certainly NOT under as some have claimed rubbish or playing really badly.

You have to ask then, if Chris is not getting the goals, is he getting the chances ?

Is he expected to make his own ? Its obvious that there are 2 men you need to get the ball to, Holt and Wes where does Martin get his supply from ? Has he got into the goal scoring positions and if not why not ? Has he been told to stay and support or is he as some have claimed lazy ?

Lambert is a lot of things but one thing he is not is a fool. He would not play Martin week in week out if he did not think he was doing his job. So obviously Martin is doing something right ?

It is quite obvious that Martin is playing a different role this year to the one he did last year, in that he is looking less lazy and moving around in the opposition area a lot more. Last year he was quite a static player now he drops deeper and looks to assist his team mates more and more. Has this build up and linking play effected his goal scoring ? Perhaps.. Has it hindered the teams ability to win games ? Very obviously not !

Martin is also desperate for a goal, this was seen yesterday when he pretty much stole Drury''s cross from Holt''s head. This is the sign of a man who wants a goal quite desperatly. But that said we dont know if Martin or Holt called the ball. Now if Holt called it and Martin went ahed thats poor football but if Martin called it and was unaware of Holt''s pressence, fair play to him !

Now this is just a debate about a player mate. There is no need to go pretending your a retired pro or talking about deep lying forwards ( Football Manager 11 ? I prefer a Advanced and Poacher myself ) as if that makes your football knowledge vastly superior. As we have seen from Roy Keane, hes won it all but has sod all footballing knowledge !

I dont claim to have ever kicked a ball over sucessfully in my life, ( maybe I have ? who cares ?) but I do claim to understand the game.

[paul moy 235]

[quote user="Gingerpele"]Ricardo, have you ever looked into being a Scout? If you can spot talent like that, then surely it would be a good option....[/quote]

I would have thought that most people that saw those youngsters being blooded had the same opinion of them. [:D]

Surely Cody is now showing that he can make it. To write him off when he''s not had a proper chance in the Championship seems ludicrous to me.  The jury is still out IMO, but I''ve no doubt that he would score more than Chris Martin at this level.

[shefcanary 2,401]

Okay my sacrastic reply earlier needs a bit more explaining.  Chris Martin seems to always want to score the spectacular.  He is probably our best free kick taker when there is a good sight of goal, and he is good at getting shots on target from relatively difficult chances.  Lambert has learnt his coaching trade on the continent.  It is very rare

for any of their teams to have a six yard poacher in their sides - it

is more usual that they have someone like Chrissy Martin in their side. 

This is the crux of whether he should be in the side or not.  He fits

Lambert''s european football style.  Those that don''t like Chrissy

Martin''s contribution, in my view don''t actually like this "european"

style and thus are as much at odds with Lambert as with any player!   We try to pass the ball through or around defences rather than just lobbing the ball in to the penalty area aimlessly.  Look how even our 90th minutes winners / equalisers are never hit and hope lump it type equalisers, but are usually well crafted.  As such we can probably get away without both forwards knocking in 1 in

every two or three matches from the 6 yard box, as long as others are

contrbuting. Chrissy Martin is not a six yard box poacher.  Fans would probably be

happy with someone just poaching a goal in that area every other game, but that does not fit our current style of play.   I''m not saying this as 100% defence of Chrissy but boy, when the spectacular chance comes along I think as he hasn''t scored for 10 games now it is

putting more pressure on him to score.  So with Chris the issue is more our stlye of play overall - would you prefer the old but relatively "skill less" English battering ram style of play, or Lambert''s more intelligent european system.  As we all know this doesn''t mean are players are not as physically robust, given the number of injury time goals we get this is patently untrue.  If you find Chrissy frustrating, I would argue it is because you are frustrated with the pit-a-pat approach we have now adopted to passing our way around the opposition.  A great approach when we are ahead (although many even in the Scum game were moaning about our failure to get the ball forward quickly enough), but can be frustrating when behind.

[Gingerpele 0]

The only real solution is to re-sign Jamie Cureton....

[YellowLittle1 0]

He is a young player going through a drought and getting frustrated by it. Still finding his bearings in this league like many of the players at the club, some players cope with it better than others.

I think we need to get off players backs and stop whinging and look at the table and be proud of all our players, not get on there backs. I actually think Jackson is the answer to the problems and has more conviction to him, but he has lost confidence because the fans got on his back.

Let''s just look at the table before we start complaining about players, I for one wouldn''t think Lambert would pick Martin if he was "lazy" or not good enough.

[Mr.Carrow 376]

The fact is Martin could have had three assists yesterday- the ball for Fox`s shot, the lovely flick for the Holt "penalty" and subsequent Wes miss, and the great run and shot when Holt was called offside. He is that kind of player- he can look poor/not involved then create something. He is technically one of the best players we have, but i do have to concede that he needs to add more bite to his game if he is going to fulfill his potential.

[ricardo 7,385]

[quote user="paul moy"]

[quote user="Gingerpele"]Ricardo, have you ever looked into being a Scout? If you can spot talent like that, then surely it would be a good option....[/quote]

I would have thought that most people that saw those youngsters being blooded had the same opinion of them. [:D]

Surely Cody is now showing that he can make it. To write him off when he''s not had a proper chance in the Championship seems ludicrous to me.  The jury is still out IMO, but I''ve no doubt that he would score more than Chris Martin at this level.

[/quote]I am sure a lot of people could see the same thing I saw. You always hope youngsters are going to make it but the sad fact is that most don''t ever make it to the first team. They look special at a certain level but just can''t cut it at the next level upI think Cody has shown that he can make it as a pro but not at the level that NCFC require. I''m pretty confident that PL thinks that way too.

[Fr. Chewy Louie 137]

If the chances that fell to Crofts yesterday had gone to him I think he''d have got at least one.

I''d prefer it if he didn''t throw his arms up and roll his eyes when a pass doesn''t find him.

[Gingerpele 0]

If you can''t see what Chris Martin adds to the side....

Go and watch the highlights (i''m only part way through) and see what he does before Fox hits the bar..... Thats what he does

[Nexus_Canary 1,016]

[quote user="Gingerpele"]If you can''t see what Chris Martin adds to the side....

Go and watch the highlights (i''m only part way through) and see what he does before Fox hits the bar..... Thats what he does[/quote]Yup and then the ball to Holt which should have been a peno.

[Nexus_Canary 1,016]

Im guessing people also miss that Martin has a major part in all but 1 of the attacking moves while hes on the pitch ?The pass and turn to Crofts was pretty neat.