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ricardo

Punching AboveOur Weight WTF!

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Sorry, but I don''t hold with this load of twaddle in Lambert''s reported interview with David Cuffley.City have spent one year in the last sixty in the the third tier so why is it surprising that after several years of under performance we are at last back somewhere near our true standing. All you see recently is pundits running on about how NCFC have out performed expectations and are now competing with the likes of QPR, Cardiff, Leeds etc. Do me a favour please! The true position is that after a poor few years the club is now back punching its "proper" weight and it should be no surprise to anyone.

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So you expected the club to be in the top 6 of the Championship when we were in disarray at the start last season?

PL is implying the club is well ahead of where we should be at this moment in time. Even after winning League 1 I doubt many realists expected us to be performing as well as we are. It''s also worth noting we''ve not got the biggest playing budget either

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[quote user="Canary_on_the Trent"]So you expected the club to be in the top 6 of the Championship when we were in disarray at the start last season?

PL is implying the club is well ahead of where we should be at this moment in time. Even after winning League 1 I doubt many realists expected us to be performing as well as we are. It''s also worth noting we''ve not got the biggest playing budget either[/quote]My expectations for the season have nothing to do with it. I am merely delighted (and relieved) that we are now performing nearer to what we should expect from a team with our historical and financial standing.

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[quote user="ricardo"]Sorry, but I don''t hold with this load of twaddle in Lambert''s reported interview with David Cuffley.City have spent one year in the last sixty in the the third tier so why is it surprising that after several years of under performance we are at last back somewhere near our true standing. All you see recently is pundits running on about how NCFC have out performed expectations and are now competing with the likes of QPR, Cardiff, Leeds etc. Do me a favour please! The true position is that after a poor few years the club is now back punching its "proper" weight and it should be no surprise to anyone.[/quote]Spot on Ricardo, I did expect us to do ok this season and with the addition of 2 or 3 decent players we could quite easily go on from here and get automatic promotion. There is no team in this division that we should be in awe of, we only got relegated in the first place because we employed a succession of clueless managers who wasted the money we did have and even if we don''t go up this year I fully expect us to be challenging near the top again next year..

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[quote user="lincoln canary"]

The squad on paper is an average championship one. With the squad we have, our transfer budget and the fact we have just secured promotion from a lower league means we are punching above our weight.

[/quote]I totally disagree. It means the years of continually punching below our weight are now over.

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It is merely Lambert down playing expectations, so as not to set themselves up for a fall.

Lambert knows, as does the club that we are still well below our true position in both football and off field terms

Given the state of many clubs in this division this season we are barely achieving what should be achieved by the club.

Consolodation is one of the most meaningless words possible in this context. It is not like winning at a casino then deciding to settle at some point when you are ahead of where you started. Again Lambert and the club know this.

This is probably one of the best chances they will have of going up. Whereever we finish this season, if we are still in this division in August then we start on level points with everyone. That could mean bigger clubs coming down from the Premiership, unlke the three basket cases from last season and who knows what from League 1.

Nothing I have seen about Lambert suggests consolidation. Nothing I have seen about McNally suggests accepting second best. They will be out to win every game - as, unlike a casino you DO NOT lose points that you have if you lose a game.

Nothing less than a playoff spot is the least for this season.

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[quote user="ricardo"][quote user="lincoln canary"]

The squad on paper is an average championship one. With the squad we have, our transfer budget and the fact we have just secured promotion from a lower league means we are punching above our weight.

[/quote]

I totally disagree. It means the years of continually punching below our weight are now over.
[/quote]

My definition of "Punching above our weight"

1. Challenging teams with better players. ( QPR, Cardiff )

2. Challenging teams with greater financial powers.

3. Being in a higher position then pre season pridictions.

 

We are doing all three.

 

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You''re missing the point ricardo, of course we should be a Premier League side but all things considered over recent years we are well ahead of where we can expect to be at this present moment of time.

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[quote user="Canary_on_the Trent"]You''re missing the point ricardo, of course we should be a Premier League side but all things considered over recent years we are well ahead of where we can expect to be at this present moment of time.[/quote]I don''t think so. Surely the point is that we are nearer to where we should be at long last.

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Lambert is playing down expectations

We''re a recently promoted side from League 1 with a significantly smaller playing budget than many of our rivals with a relatively young & inexperienced side. Realistically this season was about consolidation and perhaps an outside push for promotion.

Of course Lambert believes we can achieve something this season and like us believes we should be a Premier League side but he also understands that compared to others, we''ve got less resources and could tail off after Christmas if things don''t go our way so he is simply remaining cautious and taking the pressure off the side.

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"My definition of "Punching above our weight"

1. Challenging teams with better players. ( QPR, Cardiff )

2. Challenging teams with greater financial powers.

3. Being in a higher position then pre season pridictions."

Players are as good as their performance, not some supposed value. We had greater ''financial power'' than many who stayed up when we were relegated in 2009.

Whose predictions. Certainly not those that can be measured. I got 14/1 on us going up in July, by the start of the season the odds were down to around 8/1.

As I said this is the weakest set of teams for some fair while - that should have easily pointed to what we would achieve.

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[quote user="lincoln canary"][quote user="ricardo"][quote user="lincoln canary"]

The squad on paper is an average championship one. With the squad we have, our transfer budget and the fact we have just secured promotion from a lower league means we are punching above our weight.

[/quote]I totally disagree. It means the years of continually punching below our weight are now over.[/quote]

My definition of "Punching above our weight"

1. Challenging teams with better players. ( QPR, Cardiff )

2. Challenging teams with greater financial powers.

3. Being in a higher position then pre season pridictions.

 

We are doing all three.

 

[/quote]I think you have it arse about face. QPR Cardiff etc are the teams that are punching above their weight. One has a temporary influx of big money the other has huge debts and living on a wing and a prayer. I can''t think any knowledgeable person would claim that either of these two clubs were on a par with NCFC in modern times (the last 50 years). QPR had a decent period in the Rodney Marsh, Stan Bowles era but not much apart from that. Cardiff have been a sleeping giant for so long that the alarm clock has stopped.As to them having better players, theres nothing special at QPR and Bellamy is only at Cardiff because at the end of his career he wants to play for his home town team.We shouldn''t be over excited at our present position. Its no higher than it should be be and arguably there is still a little way to go.

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[quote user="ricardo"]Sorry, but I don''t hold with this load of twaddle in Lambert''s reported interview with David Cuffley.

City have spent one year in the last sixty in the the third tier so why is it surprising that after several years of under performance we are at last back somewhere near our true standing. All you see recently is pundits running on about how NCFC have out performed expectations and are now competing with the likes of QPR, Cardiff, Leeds etc. Do me a favour please!

The true position is that after a poor few years the club is now back punching its "proper" weight and it should be no surprise to anyone.
[/quote]

 

[Y]

 

It immediately rubbed me the wrong way when I saw the headline.

 

Let''s hope he''s just using reverse psychology for some undisclosed purpose.

 

OTBC

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The OP is so so wrong.

WE ARE PUNCHING ABOVE OUR WEIGHT.

We did very well to get promoted from League 1 at the 1st attempt (evidence Leeds, Forest, Leicester, Charlton, Southampton).

I and most other City fans would have been happy with finishing safely in mid table in our 1st season back in The Championship, but no we have been in and around the top 6 all season.

Only Cardiff have outclassed us (look at their squad). Our home form has been up and down but that is what I expected against teams with much bigger budgets and better squads. e.g. Every single Portsmouth player had Prem experience - they even brought Kanu off the bench, one of the most decorated players in Europe!

How many of our squad even have Championship experience let alone Prem?

Face facts - we are punching above our weight and long may it continue.

OTBC!

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I think it''s called managing expectations. Lambo is obviously acutely aware that some fans think we will cruise through the rest of the season and win promotion to The Premiership with no trouble whatsoever. I believe that Lambert and the board will genuinely be happy with consolidation in this league this season - no more than that. Obviously, however,  they will be delighted if we spring back to The Premiership at the first attempt!

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[quote user="ricardo"][quote user="Canary_on_the Trent"]So you expected the club to be in the top 6 of the Championship when we were in disarray at the start last season?

PL is implying the club is well ahead of where we should be at this moment in time. Even after winning League 1 I doubt many realists expected us to be performing as well as we are. It''s also worth noting we''ve not got the biggest playing budget either[/quote]My expectations for the season have nothing to do with it. I am merely delighted (and relieved) that we are now performing nearer to what we should expect from a team with our historical and financial standing.

[/quote]From a historical perspective, you are quite right.  But in terms of squad size, depth and perceived "quality", I think we are punching above our weight this season.

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Ricardo I think you may have it arse about face mate! After all Paul Lambert himself has declared were over achieving and if he''s said it it must be true! lol.

I understand your point but why does any supporter have the right to say "we should be here" were here this season on merit, nothing to do with history and fanbase and given the factors at the start of the season ( losing 2 key players& limited funds) I feel we have over acheived.

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You have to wonder at some folk

Clubs HAVE NOT bigger squads ! This is the one season that virtually every club has cut back. Portsmouth have been barely able to put out a team this season at times. The paupers down the road are down to the bare essentials. If anything we are slightly below where should be given those circumstances.

Perhaps the ''consolidation'' merchants could explain to the rest of us how Lambert arranges games so we consolidate

" Steady there lads, we are above of our consolidation place - could you let in a couple of goals"

As stated there is no such thing as consolidation - or perhaps we can be told what advantage we get by stopping the team from winning and finishing mid table.

I''m sure almost every City fan wants the team to approach each game with the intention of winning - today has outed a few that don''t.

"Kick it off, give away a throw, careful in that scrimmage

Watch what height it goes, a moderate rush, bravo win (but) not today

Nearly on the ball City, avoid any danger

Steady on, now''s not our chance

Ooh we''ve over achieved our goal

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Every poster who so far has said ''Lambert is just playing down media expectation'' is spot on. Nothing more, nothing less.

The Championship has always been - and will always be - a tight league. Everything can change over weeks, never mind months

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A clubs history has nothing to do with its league performance - on that basis corinthians and notts county would be vying for the premier title with preston.

We were in league one because we deserved to be - just as forest or leeds dont deserve to be in the prem because of their history, fan base (most spurious determinant anyway) or being in a big city - like us they are rightfully in the champs because of how they performed on the field last season. Wigan despite their miniscule support are also playing in the right league.

No club, or their fans, "deserve" to be placed above another on any other metric than performances on the pitch (the strength of the squad, some managerial magic and some luck all play parts here)

Is Lambert getting more out of this squad than other managers? I think so, but warnock may get less & keane more - we simply dont know. My vote does indeed go for the club and its squad are current performing better than all of its component parts - and long may it continue.

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At the risk of sounding like Big Ron Pundit, we are 5th wit nearly half of the season played, and the table doesn''t lie.  Holt and others have adjusted to championship level fantastically, but we are where we are simply because the team plays good football and doesn''t give up on getting results.  Get rid of some silly lapses in concentration at set-pieces, and we''d be in the top 2 by now.  We are neither punching under or over our weight.  We have landed our punch and have been found to be 5th strongest, so far.   Some good luck with injuries could see us challenging for the top 2.  But if we do miss out on the play-offs, this has been a good 1st championship season for Team Lambert.

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ps

to claim anything else makes us no better than the arrogant leeds,newcastle and liverpool fans I despise so much - for the very reason I despise them!

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pps

and breathe - god knows why or where that came from - off my chest now though!!!

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I think you are missing the point here zipper.

No one is claiming atht our historyn entitles us to anything. They are say that our current standing does mean that we can have reasonable expectations - rather different.

Compared to many in this league we are fairly financial secure. Yep we have debts, but we are meeting the payments. We will probably be one of a very small few who will be looking to strengthen the squad in January rather than trying to get their costs down.

"the club and its squad are current performing better than all of its component parts"

As with the above and the almost sellout crowds the club is certainly NOT performing better etc. It brought in a manager and backroom staff that had the ability to succeed. It installed extra seats under the knowledge that the team would cause those seats to be sold. It hired a new scout from Rangers then stated that his job would be to indentify new plyers to be brought to the club in January.

I do not see anywhere that we ''over'' achieving. I have not seen many other clubs in this league who have a far superior set up or far superior team. Nor with that set up do I think we should doff our cloth cap and become '' ever so ''umble little Norwich''.

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[quote user="blahblahblah"]At the risk of sounding like Big Ron Pundit, we are 5th wit nearly half of the season played, and the table doesn''t lie.  Holt and others have adjusted to championship level fantastically, but we are where we are simply because the team plays good football and doesn''t give up on getting results.  Get rid of some silly lapses in concentration at set-pieces, and we''d be in the top 2 by now.  We are neither punching under or over our weight.  We have landed our punch and have been found to be 5th strongest, so far.   Some good luck with injuries could see us challenging for the top 2.  But if we do miss out on the play-offs, this has been a good 1st championship season for Team Lambert.[/quote]Exactly Blahx3. We are nearly halfway through the league, and the league table vary rarely lies. Few teams in the playoffs slip up so much they fall out of the top half and even fewer bottom-half teams go up (Sunderland, Palace). If you find yourself in a particular spot in the league, you are often there on merit and that alone.This season is exceptionally tight come the half-way stage, and at the moment anybody can make a move to the top. All it takes is a player to spring to life (Becchio), a great new addition (hopefully ours more than anyone elses), or squad players stepping up to the mark (Leeds and Norwich).If the injuries don''t come, or even if they do and we continue to get great production out of our back-ups, then we will still be up there, like we have been so far.

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[quote user="ZippersLeftFoot"]A clubs history has nothing to do with its league performance - on that basis corinthians and notts county would be vying for the premier title with preston. [/quote]But it has everything to do with the perception of whether it is punching above its weight. The glory days of the three teams you mentioned are long before the modern era so can be easily discounted and by the same token I discount Wanderers, Old Etonians and Blackburn Olympic.I think a fifty year perspective of a clubs position in the football hieracy gives a pretty good guide as to what each clubs supporters should expect as a standard. Leeds, Forest and ourselves have certainly been below par in recent seasons and are now pushing closer to their long term averages. I would argue that history and fanbase (natural resources) are significant factors to be considered when looking at a clubs punching weight. Its why most 3rd and 4th tier teams have no prospect of ever getting 20k gates or becoming a Prem club (Torquay, Barnet, Yeovil anyone?). Southampton are an obvious exception being a club that is now punching far below its proper weight. They will however one day regain a position closer to their historical average. Teams like Wigan are punching far above their weight because their position is artificially sustained by big money owners. This just shows how the huge sums and rich owners have distorted the natural order recently. However I expect Wigan will end up much like Wimbledon who crashed back to earth when the money ran out and they were thrown back on their natural resources. Hull are another club who have been puching well in excess of their "natural" position and are now returning to the norm and much the same can be said of Portsmouth and Middlesboro.None of this has anything to do with "deserving" to be in the Championship or Premiership. It has everything to do with how a supporter should expect their club to perform long term.

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[quote user="ricardo"][quote user="Canary_on_the Trent"]You''re missing the point ricardo, of course we should be a Premier League side but all things considered over recent years we are well ahead of where we can expect to be at this present moment of time.[/quote]I don''t think so. Surely the point is that we are nearer to where we should be at long last.[/quote]Can''t agree with your assessment I''m afraid Ricardo.Someone on here mentioned the mess we were in less than 18 months ago and we have overachieved since. I''ll bet no-one at Carrow Road on 8th August 2009 would have seriously predicted that we would be 5th in the Championship come Christmas 2010. In that respect, as a newly promoted club I think we most definitely are punching above our weight at the moment.This doesn''t of course mean that it won''t continue and if we were to do the same this term as Blackpool did last - if that wasn''t punching above their weight I don''t know what is - then I''ll be quite happy to be surprised and delighted come May 2011.

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[quote user="Canary_on_the Trent"]You''re missing the point ricardo, of course we should be a Premier League side but all things considered over recent years we are well ahead of where we can expect to be at this present moment of time.[/quote]Why should we be a premier league side then? We are where we are on merit, nothing else. Yes we are doing very well at the moment but it is quite frankly ridiculous saying we have more of a right than others to be a premier league club. (yes, you didn''t say that part but others do very frequently).

 

My view is that we are doing very well, but not excatly punching above our weight. About right I''d say.

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