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Gingerpele

Does Holt 'cheat' to much (This isn't a post to knock him....)

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After watching the Ipswich game, its more obvious how Holt really does get stuck into the game....

But, as a result of that, he does very silly things, some bordering on cheating,

He plays for the foul quite often (which isn''t a bad thing, its tactical play, but if it was done against us, some fans would probably accuse the other player of cheating)...The red card on Sunday, was very silly really, Delany pretty much touched him (i thought it was more contact when i was at the game, but in replays, it looked liked bearly any), but Holt going down was enough to get him off...

Hand balls....the ''attempted'' hand ball, didn''t connect, but was he trying to handle the ball?

(He did it a few times last season, from corners went in with a fist rather than a head...)

And then his early foul, which is just a sign of how passionate he is, but maybe a bit too much :P

(There may be other example, but i can''t remember any now....)

This really isn''t trying to knock him, but he''s a player we want on the pitch every game, but he just seems to do a few silly things, i don''t know wether their part of his/Lamberts game plan, or wether he just gets so into the game, they come along...

(Also not saying, he shouldn''t play for the foul etc, but i think especially as captain, he needs to be careful.)

What does everyone else think?

Passion, tactical or silly?

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No.

He was fouled for 90% of the free-kicks, but drew the fouls from extremely clever player.

With the Delaney red, there was clear contact, and he made the most of it. Again, intelligent play, forcing the referee to make a decision/

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Holt is one of those players who you love to have on your own team, but would hate if he plays against you. If he was an Ipswich player and did the same things against us which he did against them, Norwich fans would hate him with a passion usually reserved for Holland, Brazil etc.

Holt was lucky not to get sent off on Sunday for the lunge at Colback, and the melee it created and Colback getting straight up probably helped him to only get a yellow card. If he had of made an obvious connection with his hand in the build up for the first goal it would have been a second yellow card. Holt was walking a fine line between hero and villain that day, luckily for us he was the hero, fully deserved his hat-trick and calmed down a little later on in the game.

 

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Whilst I think you are treading a dangerous line here, I actually agree, maybe a little. There has been on occasion that I find when Holt backs into the defender and then goes over like he has been kidney punched, a little cringeworthy.We all know its part of the game, and maybe, more often than not, the defender is fouling him, but sometimes it really looks a bit put on.

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We all know what you mean but why should any Norwich fan feel the slightest tinge of guilt or think any the less of a man who is doing one hell of a job in getting the most out of his abilities - do you really think fans of other clubs would bemoan having a clever, cynical striker who gets what he can out of referees.

And while quite manipulative of situations, especially when holding the ball up, Grant is hardly in the Drogba league for diving or from the Roy Keane school of abusing referees - as cheating goes its fairly low down the list. And come to think of it, how about Thierry Henry, a much respected A-lister with a very positive reputation who showed last year he isn''t adverse to nudging the ball with his hand when the chance allows.

For sheer passion, commitment and nous, Grant is the best we''ve had for some time.

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I think everyone is just being biased.I don''t think he cheats much, playing for the foul isn''t cheating, it''s clever play.But sometimes, when he doesn''t get the foul, he goes over like a ton of bricks anyway, and he does it quite regularly. Cheating.

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To be perfectly honest.  I used to think staying on your feet etc etc and riding tackles was the yardstick for sportsmanship.   Since the day of the Man City match in the Prem League. When we were given a master class in falling over at the slightest touch and winning a free kick.  Staying on your feet for the sake of sportsmanship is complete bollox.  It was about time somebody like Holt turned up and ''played the game''.

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On a slightly differeny note, interesting to see Real Madrid being punished for Alonso and Ramos delibritely getting 2nd yellow card against Ajax last week, with both players and the club fined aswell as Mourinho getting a touchline ban.  I seem to remember both Holt and Lappin doing similar things at Paulton last season in order to miss a JPT match instead of a league game. Being on live TV I reckon we got off lightly there ?

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It''s the right of every football fan to be fickle. Huckerby use to take dives in the box (or at least go over easily) and we loved him, Andy Johnson did it agaisnt us and we hated him. Holt got sent off against Reading for a non-tackle we hate the ref, Delany got sent off for brushing Holt (and having two coving defenders) and we praise Holt and the ref.

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[quote user="ſilly ſauſage"]They both got yellows not reds
[/quote]

??

Alonso and Ramos both got (2nd) yellows in order to miss the next match, Holt and Lappin both got yellows to take them up to 5 yellow card in order to miss the next match. Both the same crime IMO

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[quote user="GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary"]On a slightly differeny note, interesting to see Real Madrid being punished for Alonso and Ramos delibritely getting 2nd yellow card against Ajax last week, with both players and the club fined aswell as Mourinho getting a touchline ban.  I seem to remember both Holt and Lappin doing similar things at Paulton last season in order to miss a JPT match instead of a league game. Being on live TV I reckon we got off lightly there ?[/quote]

But they haven''t really been punished, have they? As always, it''s the soft option. Punishment would have been missing the next game AND the first leg of the knock-out stage.

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[quote user="GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary"]

[quote user="ſilly ſauſage"]They both got yellows not reds[/quote]

??

Alonso and Ramos both got (2nd) yellows in order to miss the next match, Holt and Lappin both got yellows to take them up to 5 yellow card in order to miss the next match. Both the same crime IMO

[/quote]Different governing bodies, and Real''s was obviously more prominent. Also, this is the first time (I believe) that anyone has ever been punished for deliberately getting booked in order to serve a suspension, and someone has to be the first to get punished.But I see what you''re saying.

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IMO there is not a player on earth who would''nt have done the same, how many times have we been on the recieving end, of it thing is Holt don''t go into an Oscar award winning act then run like mad after the magic sponge treatment

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I think all these comments have been pretty fair...

Like mentioned, If Holt played like that against us, we would hate him, but since its for us, we love him :D

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I certainly don''t think Holt ''cheats'', even if you look at the term loosely.

What he does do, however, is draw fouls from defenders, particularly inexperienced one''s. Typically the best strikers are the one''s that can do this. Most experienced defenders don''t fall for it but some still do.

Holt will go over ''easily'' if he feels he isn''t going to create a better opportunity from open play. This is not cheating, this is taking the foul rather than trying to ride it and play on.

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I think "Cheat" is too strong in a footballing terms, he takes the rules to the limit - if he cheated any body on Sunday it was us fans as a tight game became to one sided.

Jackson suffered on Sunday as his booking looked a good penalty shout to me?

Untill players start getting retrospectively banned for "cheating" and managers start telling them to stop it will continue - and whilst it does good on Grant.

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Nobody has mentioned the fight-starting tackle yet.That, to my eyes, would have been a red 9 times out of 10. Even Hucks tweeted something along the lines of "Holty''s going to go for that". It was a stupid tackle, wtf was he thinking?Incidentally, I totally loved it. Took out a player, started a fight, got the adrenaline going, only got a yellow, brilliant! But we wouldn''t be saying that if the ref had understandably given him a red card. And when you show the ferocity of that tackle against the ease of him going down to get Delaney sent off, it starts to look a bit hmmmm....

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[quote user="Mook"]Nobody has mentioned the fight-starting tackle yet.

[/quote]

The OP and Bethnal Yellow and Green both mentioned it. Aye; I thought it was a little reckless at the time too.

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[quote user="Mook"]Nobody has mentioned the fight-starting tackle yet.That, to my eyes, would have been a red 9 times out of 10. Even Hucks tweeted something along the lines of "Holty''s going to go for that". It was a stupid tackle, wtf was he thinking?[/quote]Ditto, it''s incredible to think how close Holt came to being a villain instead of a hero, think of all the repercussions if Holt had been sent off, it was a foolish tackle that could have cost us the game and more.

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I don''t think Holt "cheats" too much.  I''m sick of "nice little Norwich City" and to have a player who plays on the margins of what''s acceptable is a refreshing change for me.

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What Mr Chops said.

As for the red card, cheating is way too strong a word. Delaney grabbed at him, he felt it, he went down and made the referee make a decision. Also noticeable that Delaney didn''t protest his innocence and none of his team mates were complaining too much either.

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Holt - Simply top bloke and underrated in many ways.

Quicker than what he looks.

More skilful than what he''s given credit for.

Great vision.

Fantastic leader.

Built like a bull with great physical presence.

I would want him with me when a fight started on a Saturday night!!!

Marvellous entertainer. His body language is worth the admission money alone.

He will always be ''on the edge'' and he will get sent off a few times in a season but you accept it or you sell him to the Binners. They''ll bite your ''ands orf!

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[quote user="GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary"]

[quote user="ſilly ſauſage"]They both got yellows not reds
[/quote]

??

Alonso and Ramos both got (2nd) yellows in order to miss the next match, Holt and Lappin both got yellows to take them up to 5 yellow card in order to miss the next match. Both the same crime IMO

[/quote]

Not the same crime to me at all. Neither Holt nor Lappin got themselves deliberately sent off. Picking up one yellow deliberately is much more acceptable and happens all the time in the league. Alonso and Ramos did this in a top Cup competition which has vastly fewer games and thus can affect the outcome far more.  

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Sorry, but I love Holt as much as the next person, but you would have to be blind not to see that Holt does dive a fair bit. Well maybe not dive as such, but makes HUGE meals of many challenges, which I LOVE as he is a Norwich fan. However if he was an opposing player, you''d hate to play against him, and you''d hate him as an opposing fan. [:)]

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