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The Butler

Top three City Managers

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Just trying to put our past managers into a 1-2-3.

Past not including present.

I am having trouble from:-

Macaulay,Walker,Brown,Saunders,Bond, Stringer, Worthington,Ashman...........

Top three and why please.

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I''m going to have to select from City Managers that I "know", which rules out people like Ashman, MacCauley and, to a certain extent, Ron Saunders...

So,

1. Dave Stringer. Entertaining team, winning team, a team that had a chance, and a serious chance, of winning the double. Also brough through, via his own previous stewardship of the kids, a certain Chris Sutton.

2. John Bond-put Norwich on the map, made us (briefly!) a team that people talked about, had us playing some sublime football-and the players-McDougall & Boyer, Peters, Neighbour, Reeves...

3. Mike Walker (and just pipping Worthy & Ken Brown)- what could have been? So much momentum lost and potential lost when he quit for Everton, but what an 18 months he gave us. You do wonder what we might have achieved had he stayed and been given more financial support, would we ahve won things, would certain players have stayed longer-who can tell? He and Deehan were the perfect double act and neither have been the same without the other. It wasn'' sustained, but it was great whilst it lasted and, I think, much of the pressure and expectation that all other Norwich managers have had has, one way or another, come from what we had under Walker (first time round).

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I have to stick to those after 1972:

1. Ken Brown: The best win ratio of any manager (40.9%), with many of those in the then Division 1 over 7 years (1980-1987). (Worthy comes second but most of his were in the second tier). Brown also laid the foundations for the successful years under Stringer and Walker (Who might have been top if he had stayed longer).

2. Dave Stringer: Also high in the win ratio (38.9%) over his 5 years (1987-1992), again mostly at the top-level. Like Brown, left the team in good shape for his successor, Mike Walker.

3. Mike Walker: Might have been top if he had stayed longer in his first spell from 1992-94 (as might Martin O''Neill!). This included the great run in the EUFA cup success and high finishes at the top-level. Less successful in his second stint from 1996-98.

It is true that Bond did raise City''s profile, but he actually had a losing record overall. Hard to say what Martin O''Neill would have done if he had stayed longer. Anyway, those are my choices.

The managerial stats can be found on Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norwich_City_FC

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It''s always going to be tricky to judge and compare different managers, as we don''t see what goes on behind the scenes, and different managers have had widely differing quality of players to choose from. On the basis that great managers are those who create teams that are more than the sum of their parts, I would go for: 1. Ron Saunders. The man who took us to the promised land for the first time, thereby putting Norwich firmly on the football map. No superstars, but intelligent dealings in the transfer market, targetting the players he needed for his team. Similar to what PL is doing at the moment.2. Mike Walker. Highest ever league placing, and playing attractive football too. No further comment needed.3. Archie Macaulay. I am cheating a little here as he was a bit before my time, but he took the club from the bottom of the league (anyone who thinks NCFC were in a bad way two seasons ago should do a little historical research and see what things were like in 1957), to the FA Cup semis, then to promotion, and almost to the First division. Clever dealings in the transfer market to build his own team, and he brought in several players who were still there in the mid-sixties when I started supporting the club, e.g. Barry Butler, Terry Allcock.No place yet for PL as he is still work in progress, although I think he could be close to the top by the time he is done.

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Ron Saunders for getting us to the big time.

Dave Stringer. For building the foundations which gave Mike Walker the chance to see it through, and for being a club legend.

Ken Brown.For winning some silverware and being an all round top bloke.

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As I can''t have Lambert, I''m struggling for three in my time as a supporter.1. Mike Walker was manager when I first started supporting City back in those heady days when Europe beckoned.2. Nigel Worthington - for getting us there again and that play-off; the players he brought in.3. Ho hum... not sure.... of the ones I remember ... Megson, Deehan, Roeder, Rioch, Hamilton, Gunn, Grant - none of those.     Guess it will have to be ''what might have been'' Martin O''Neill, had he been given the money.

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Well for me it''s : -

  1. Dave Stringer with Dave Williams. In all my time watching these two produced the best footballing sides of all. I can''t seperate them because they were a great team. In fact all my top three were double acts who complimented eachother perfectly.
  2. Ken Brown with Mel Machin. Great days to be a City Fan winning a major trophy there by qualifying for Europe for the first time. Brown signed many great players too, Woods, Watson, Bruce, Deehan and Channon to name just five.
  3. John Bond with Ken Brown. These two really put norwich on the map. Bondy was so charismatic and affected a change from the dour displays under Ron Saunders to much more open and attractive football. But for me his greatest achievement was signing Martin Peters for £40,000. When I heard the news I thought it was a wind up. When I think about it now I still can scarcely believe it. An English international who captained his country, a world cup winner who scored in the final, signing for Norwich and then playing here for over 5 years!! Awesome!

 

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[quote user="nutty nigel"]

Well for me it''s : -

  1. Dave Stringer with Dave Williams. In all my time watching these two produced the best footballing sides of all. I can''t seperate them because they were a great team. In fact all my top three were double acts who complimented eachother perfectly.

  2. Ken Brown with Mel Machin. Great days to be a City Fan winning a major trophy there by qualifying for Europe for the first time. Brown signed many great players too, Woods, Watson, Bruce, Deehan and Channon to name just five.

  3. John Bond with Ken Brown. These two really put norwich on the map. Bondy was so charismatic and affected a change from the dour displays under Ron Saunders to much more open and attractive football. But for me his greatest achievement was signing Martin Peters for £40,000. When I heard the news I thought it was a wind up. When I think about it now I still can scarcely believe it. An English international who captained his country, a world cup winner who scored in the final, signing for Norwich and then playing here for over 5 years!! Awesome!

 

[/quote]

I wish I was giving a prize Nutty but your opinion is VERY close to mine.

It must be an age thing[;)]

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[quote user="nutty nigel"]

Well for me it''s : -

  1. Dave Stringer with Dave Williams. In all my time watching these two produced the best footballing sides of all. I can''t seperate them because they were a great team. In fact all my top three were double acts who complimented eachother perfectly.
  2. Ken Brown with Mel Machin. Great days to be a City Fan winning a major trophy there by qualifying for Europe for the first time. Brown signed many great players too, Woods, Watson, Bruce, Deehan and Channon to name just five.
  3. John Bond with Ken Brown. These two really put norwich on the map. Bondy was so charismatic and affected a change from the dour displays under Ron Saunders to much more open and attractive football. But for me his greatest achievement was signing Martin Peters for £40,000. When I heard the news I thought it was a wind up. When I think about it now I still can scarcely believe it. An English international who captained his country, a world cup winner who scored in the final, signing for Norwich and then playing here for over 5 years!! Awesome!

 

[/quote]Yes Nigel, I have to agree with all of thatI also think that in my time Macauley, Walker, Sanders and Worthy were mainly successful whilst Tom Parker, Lol Morgan, Megson, Hamilton Roeder and Gunn were not.

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My nominations are -

1. Stringer - who knows what he might have achieved had he been allowed to build a team around Drinkell, Linighan, Townsend, Phelan, and Gordon.

2. Brown - for winning our only major trophy (1962 deliberately excluded)

3. Walker - Arguably the closest Norwich will ever come to winning the Premier League.

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A tough question and no mistake. I go back as far as Macaulay, but exclude him on the basis that, very good though he was, he never managed us in the top flight. Saunders took us there, for which he gets enormous credit, but that revealed his limitations. Brown I exclude for a very simple - and often overlooked - reason. Under him we suffered a quite unnecessary relegation.

 

Separating Bond, Stringer and Walker I find close to impossible. Stringer as a manager was the opposite of Stringer as a player. His teams played wonderful football, but there was a fragility about them. Bond was tactically good but the same team could lose 4-1 one week and win 5-2 the next, rather mirroring Bond''s personality. Walker (Walker Mark-I, that is, as opposed to the sad return) was more a manager for all weathers.

 

If I was listing them as my favourites it would be 1. Bond, 2. Stringer 3. Walker. But best? Hmmm.

1. Walker.

2. Bond.

3. Stringer.

 

 

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I was out of the picture for several of those glory years having moved to Houston where English soccer coverage was slim at best. From 87 to about 97, when I reattached via the internet, there is mostly a blank. I got some news, but not enough to form a proper opinion.

Having said that, John Bond has to be tops. As much as I hate Harry Redknapp, I remember Bond as someone sort of like him in terms of his general public persona. I am probably way off on that, but that;s how I see him, and he brought us into the limelight.

Bond''s successor, Ken Brown took what Bond built and made it better, so he is second.

These were my formative years. so I remember them better than others from further past or more recent. However, you have to give Nigel Worthington his props as a very good manager for us. Great loans, recovery from the post-playoff season blahs to pormotion, and he was absolute class (publicly) as we struggled mightily through all sorts of bad luck and injuries to get us withing a game of staving off relegation.

2 years from now, depending on what happens, Lambert may replace Worthington. I think the main factor in that is whether we can keep him. If we do, he will!

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Archie Macaulay (1960s) under the leadership of Chairman Geoffrey Watling.

 

Ron Saunders (1970s)  under the leadership of  Chairman Geoffrey Watling.

 

David Stringer (1980s) under the leadership of Chairman Robert Chase

 

Each had the unique distinction during this post-war period of taking our club up to a completely new level.

 

In my view that''s the acid test.

 

OTBC

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It''s difficult to praise Walker without mentioning Stringer, most of the side that Walker took to 3rd place and then onto Europe were already here and had played a lot together under Stringer. For people to say that Walker would have taken us on to better things had he have stayed should remember that a lot of that side were all peaking and then growing ''old'' together at the same time, the likes of Gunn,Culverhouse,Bowen,Butterworth,Newman and Crook all left pretty much wentatsame time. Any manager in the world, Mike Walker included would have faced a huge job to keep the momentum having to replace most of that succesful side in one go......especially under a chairman who didn''t give the necessary funds to do so.

for all of that Walker nicks it for me (3rd place and Europe)

Stringer a close second for forming the basis of that side in previous years (4th, 2 xFA Cup semi-finals)

Brown  ( 5th, Milk Cup, 2 x Division 2 promotions)

I began watching Norwich in 1980 so can only speak from my own time but I''m sure those who remember the work of Bond and Saunders will have their own ideas.

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