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Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man

Why Does Everyone Cream Themselves Over Our Centre Backs?

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The general feeling on this messageboard is that Ward and Barnett are Premier League centre backs. Now, compared to some defenders we have had recently, they are world beaters, but whilst they are decent for this level, they are not Premier League standard, or even top Championship quality.If we take the goal yesterday, it was very soft, and one of them should''ve dealt with that. Also, Ward gave away a stonewall penalty in the second half, and judging by his reaction, he knew it.Last week, Barnett was outjumped comfortably by a player who is a good three inches shorter than him for the Ipswich goal.Also, Ward was released in the summer by an average Championship team, after being loaned out twice last season due to not being deemed good enough for the first team. Similarly, Barnett has never cut it in this division with West Brom, and it looks they are trying their hardest to get shot of him.Then if we look at the amount of goals we have conceded this season- despite being fourth, out of the top ten teams, only Leeds have conceded more than us.I think the reason must be that we have had to put up some fairly average/awful centre backs over the last five years or so, and Ward and Barnett are the first two who can actually hold their own their own at this level. But, in my eyes, they are not all they are cracked up to be.

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Is that the general feeling? I haven''t seen many comments saying Ward is prem class, seen some saying he was/should be...But most people seem to worry about him most of the time....

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While bored yesterday, when the missus was watching xfactor i thought i''d take alook at a Derby forum to see what they thought of us and one of the things that was said was how good Ward was, moping up everything they could throw at us. So it''s not just lot of  us who think they are good.

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I think when I start creaming myself over 2 men in tight shorts, I''ve got problems.

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It wasn''t a stonewall penalty,it was actually a very good tackle[Y]

But i get your gist.They are not Prem class,but they are good (not as good as the Doc),with occasional lapses.Ward could take more time over his passing for instance.But then i could spend all day nit-picking over everyones faults.

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Clint, you know and I know, you like creaming over men in tight shorts!

The OP seems to be pointing out the times when Ward and Barnett haven''t done well. Congrats, that''s 2 moments out of 20 odd games, you''ve highlighted their consistency and the reason we ''cream'' over them!

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Barnet and Ward have been impressive most of the time so far. Yes they''ve made mistakes but then so do players much better!

 

I''m not sure about Premiership class but their most definately more than good enough for this level!

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27goals conceded - with an increasing proportion from set pieces or down the middle - is a worry and the real thing that will prevent a promotion push.Its a while since we kept a clean sheet too, although the total goals conceded in the last 10 games is no worse than the first 10

Ward looks good with the ball at his feet and barnett has pace. But when it comes to getting a head to the ball or getting ahead of the attacker - ie actually defending - its not there yet. They need to defend effectively as well as look good.

Communication, organisation and responsibility is still well short of what is needed for a promotion team which probably needs to concede no more that 55 goals this season. But the foundations are there - can they improve quickly enough?

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[quote user="knockout nick"]did you go to the game yesterday

best 2 players on the pitch[/quote]

I went as well. Everyone without exception had a good game but I would have picked out Ruddy and Lansbury myself

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I don''t think any of us know if they are ''Prem class'' or not, this year has demonstrated that we arm chair commentators tend to be wide of the mark a lot of the time. Last year there were loads of discussions about our squad and how they would all need changing to compete in this league, we are sitting fourth and it is taken for read that they are now good enough for this league but would need changing if we went up. I think it is fair to say that they have done a good job this year, they do make mistakes but both seem to have the basic game to be able to improve and maybe make a step up. Only time will tell.

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Defence is not just about the centre backs. You play as a unit. For the Derby goal yesterday, Lappin should have been much closer to the centre backs. Had he been, he could have made a tackle and stopped the goal. Drury wouldn''t have made that error.Personally I''m pretty pleased with the standard of our centre backs. (oh, and I think Lappin''s doing ok for a 3rd choice left back, despite the occasional lapse)

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Couple of points for those capable of seeing the bigger picture.....

a, We play an attacking, entertaining style which often leaves the defence exposed and vulnerable.

b, Barnett and Ward are 24 and 25 respectively i believe. If a player of their age with their natural attributes never made a defensive mistake they`d be in the Prem by now.

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Well I like them both although I would say that Ward worries me a bit more defensively than Barnett does. Barnett generally tends to attack and clear the ball with a bit more urgency and in more of a no-nonsense way than Ward does. Ward obviously likes to see himself as a bit more of a ball player, which he is in comparison to Barnett. However, although we seemed to have painted the general picture of Ward being "calm and composed" and the one who "likes to play it out from the back" etc etc to me he''s only decent at that, I don''t see him as being anything special in that department.

 

I do think Barnett has made a huge difference to our prospects. After getting rid of the Doc in the summer I thought we looked a bit weak at the back if we were going to be going with Nelson partnering Ward - and there would be a clear lack of pace between them. Fortunately, the capture of Barnett has made us look much more like the real deal in this league and I think it really is essential we hang on to him.

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[quote user="Mr.Carrow"]Couple of points for those capable of seeing the bigger picture..... a, We play an attacking, entertaining style which often leaves the defence exposed and vulnerable. b, Barnett and Ward are 24 and 25 respectively i believe. If a player of their age with their natural attributes never made a defensive mistake they`d be in the Prem by now.[/quote]

Good point, well made..

I was there yesterday and I never really worried when they were faced in one on ones or even in the air. Barnett got outjumped at Ipswich but generally is great in the air - good leap and loves his headers (if only he could get his shots on target from headers). Ward was good yesterday too definitely and that tackle was good too. My only concern with him was the way he passed back some very dodgy ones to Ruddy - almost caught him out once at least with wayward passes. As for their goal - Barnett got caught trying to get passed Ward on way to Commons. Generally they coped well, but the pitch did look quite slippy - noticed that players needed that extra touch to settle themselves (on both sides) and it was harder to stop and turn quickly, as you would be able to on a perfect pitch. Don''t get me wrong, we aren''t rock solid, but when Drury is back things will look much, much better and we''ll hopefully get more clean sheets to make our lives easier

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