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Heresyourfathersgun

Are scum going bust again?

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They won''t face administration, liquidation etc whilst Marcus Evans is happy to pick up the losses they''re making.

None of us know how he''s thinking but it''s clear that his original plan was to pick up the Ipswich debts, bankroll a promotion push and once promoted rake in the money that comes with Premiership football but it''s been 3 years now and loss after loss with no real progress on the field. How long is he going to remain patient?

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[quote user="Heresyourfathersgun"]Just saw on Sky Sports Ipswich posted a £14 million loss last year. Have I missed this already?[/quote]

Old news they released that over a month ago.

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"but it''s clear that his original plan was to pick up the Ipswich debts, bankroll a promotion push and once promoted rake in the money that comes with Premiership football"

That may be what he conned the simple folk of suffolk into believing, but the evidence suggests otherwise. He didn''t actually pick up the debts they remained with the club. In fact he added to them by £8.1m.

A couple of months after the club was handed over to him, the binners were just outside the playoff places. A couple or so decent players in the January transfer window or the same number brought in as loanees in February could well have put the binners into a play off place or even an automatic spot but nothing was forthcoming. Not a bean,

Keane''s millions upon millions supposedly don''t stand up too close scrutiny either, not only by the quality of players he signed but a cursory glance at the club''s accounts don''t show those millions. He even stated himself the figures being bandied about were not correct. What they do show is the club being stiffed interest on a £25m debt that Evans picked up for around third or even quarter of that price.

It should be borne in mind that clearing out staff and paying up contracts can be costly. The massive clear out at every level at poorman road has added to the club''s debt. Something Evans knew would cost. Unfortunately the dimwitted rural folk have deluded themselves onto believing that expenditure was solely spent as wages on high cost players. The ''downsizing'' is still continuing with nearly 20 of the playing staff out of contract in June.

What has always been overlooked is the buying off of the debt to Norwich Union. It is highly unlikely that NU accepted a simple one off payment. They would have been funding a money spinning Premiership place with no gain for themselves. Evans would most liklely have agreed a small one off fee with further payments conditional on achieving Premiership status.

If there was any serious intention of pushing for promotion then Evans would not have added MORE debt to the club the day he took. He would have been ruthless and removed Keane very quickly - as us with McNally and Gunn. Compere what Lambert has achieved on a fairly average budget to what Keane has achieved. Either the big budget was not there or Keane was not up to it. Either way, anyone serious about promotion would therefore have made the necessary change months ago.

At the moment the accounts look very selective. However they do show that on every level income is falling and debt risng. The club seems to be drifting. Pretty much a shambles. Their youth team/set up is failing. The first team is a joke - comprised of a few aged has beens, short term loanees and out of depth youngsters filling in the gaps. Recruiting a striker that cannot get into lowly Plymouth''s first team should give you all the evidence you need of how little money is available at poorman rd.

Perhaps what emerges from poorman rd in a few years time will be a club that is finally living within it''s means, has a business and marketing structure that reflects a multi million pound turnover and manager that can manage and a chief executive that has some reasoned knowledge of football.

Until then, expect the club to sink further and further down the plughole

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Amazing that some people were wishing it was us that had been took over in a similar way in 2007.

http://services.pinkun.com/FORUMS/PINKUN/CS/forums/1066809/ShowPost.aspx

Also quite refreshing that some people on this thread realised the grass wasn''t as green on the other side as "the usual suspects" thought it would be.

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Why?   What posses''s someone to go back 3 years and trawl through posts just to get a point accross? Why?

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[quote user="mtv"]Why?   What posses''s someone to go back 3 years and trawl through posts just to get a point accross? Why?[/quote]

To point out what knee jerk carp some people post on here possibly?! And it was three years ago because that was when the takeover was going through so that was when the relevant ''debates'' would have surfaced on here.

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Obviously nothing better to do then? I just find it amazing that someone would waste some much time trawl through threads so long ago to back up something that no one has disputed on here (yet). I would dare to say that most normal people can''t remember what happened yesterday never mind, remember what was said 3 years ago and even worse waste time finding it. get a telly! 

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I wouldn''t say I trawled through, using the search function you can find what you looking for relatively easily.

Last week someone found a thread about when Roy Keane was appointed which contained a lot of people using it as a stick to beat the club and the board with, this is similar.

People ignorant of facts assume things are better and want it when history tells you the grass isn''t always greener.

And by writing this sort of guff they drag other people like magnets into agreeing with them which helps foster a totally negative viewpoint.

It would be nice if some of the people said they got it wrong.

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Is Roy keano''s real name Marcus Evans, If I were him and saw my club going down the pan I know what I''d be doing, Giving Chris Houghton a ring

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[quote user="mtv"]Obviously nothing better to do then? I just find it amazing that someone would waste some much time trawl through threads so long ago to back up something that no one has disputed on here (yet). I would dare to say that most normal people can''t remember what happened yesterday never mind, remember what was said 3 years ago and even worse waste time finding it. get a telly! [/quote]Those of us who take an interest in history (call it "trawling" if you like) are the ones who learn from the mistakes of others, rather than going on to make the same mistakes ourselves. I hope someone at Carrow Road has trawled back 3 years and learned that it is not a good idea to go for "investment" the way Ipswich have done.

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So just explain this for me then were Ipswich right or wrong to accept Evans into their club?

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[quote user="mtv"]So just explain this for me then were Ipswich right or wrong to accept Evans into their club?[/quote]It might have looked right at the time (from their point of view) and at the time a lot of people on this forum were saying that we should have gone down the same road. But 3 years down the line it doesn''t look so clever. This is what I mean by looking at the history and learning from what others have done.

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[quote user="mtv"]So just explain this for me then were Ipswich right or wrong to accept Evans into their club?[/quote]Very very wrong.  Ipswich owed Aviva (..Aviva, Onderlay Onderlay) 25 apples. Evans bought that debt for 8 apples, maybe less initially.Evans says to Ipswich "You still owe me 25 apples, and it''s going to cost you interest on those 25 apples".  When Evans "loans" Ipswich more apples, he charges interest on more apples.  Evans makes money regardless of Ipswiches'' performance.  Evans knows that eventually when he gets bored of making interest on all the apples, he can put the club into administration.  But why would he do that when he''s making a paper profit on the club all the time, and regardless of their performance on the pitch ?

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Ok Hamster, you did not answer the question though did you? were they right or wrong to take Evans money?

Blah..right or wrong, what were the altenatives at that time for them?

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Sheepshanks would have taken the money of Idi Amin had he have still been alive but I’m not quite sure what angel you are trying to pursue here MTV?

You openly criticise people for dragging up the past but what point is history if you can’t learn from it?

At the time I for one came out in open opposition that the whole Evans debacle was nothing more than Fools Gold and was akin to a Hedge Fund buying some cut price debt, dare I say I’m being proven correct?

Thankfully this is not a road our own club has gone down and with the excellent management of both our Chairman and Chief Executive it looks as though our forthcoming AGM will be both a positive and interesting one.

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I''m not trying to ''pursue'' anything other than to find out the alternatives that faced the Ipswich board at that time. Personally I dont really give a tuppenny toss which way they jumpeded, but this was brought up by someone and it started me thinking (dangerous) that whilst it is easy for us/you to say ''told you so'' but I wonder what you were comparing the choice they made with the choice they had.

If my memory serves me correctly (cue threads from 65bc) they were teetering on the brink of a second administration when evans came in to ''save'' them.

I an sure our thread historians will scurry around to find ''an'' answer but ........................

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The thought that occurs to me is are they actually trading legally?

It has been many years since I worked for a Chartered Accountants and solency laws have obviously changed a lot but, is it not the case that if your debts are greater than your assets then you are basically insolvent. Now Marcus Evans has pilled the debt on Ipswich and don''t forget they don''t even own their own ground so their assets are worth less than ours.

I''m sure someone out there can confirm or refute my suspicions.

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[quote user="mtv"]

Ok Hamster, you did not answer the question though did you? were they right or wrong to take Evans money?

Blah..right or wrong, what were the altenatives at that time for them?

[/quote]

In my opinion they were wrong as he''s a very shady individual - seem to remember that we were linked with some kind of arms dealer that''d just been released from an Italian jail (about ten years ago?) and hoping like hell we had nothing to do with him and his blood money.

And whilst you''re on the subject of having nothing better to do with our time - didn''t you spend most of yesterday arguing with children about the pros and cons of dressing in a morph suit [:D][:D] so that''s a bit rich coming from you don''t you think [:)][;)] 

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Only sticking up for a ''morph'' son of mine..if thats ok with you? Anyway the arms dealer bloke was a solicitor call de stafarni or something like that and he wanted to ''buy into the club'' never taken seriously by Smith and Jones nor the fans I don''t think

Still wanting to know what alternatives they had to Evans other than going into Admin.

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As I am/was not an Ipswich shareholder and haven''t seen a book of accounts I am not in a position to say whether they were right or wrong to accept the takeover deal by Marcus Evans. I don''t know how desperate their need was. If you are correct and they were close to a second administration that would probably have been a factor in their decision making.

I also don''t know whether there were any other options on the table.

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I am not saying they were wrong for the choice they made in their situation, my problem was/is with people at the time jumping in and grabbing a stick to beat our board with by saying Ipswich had a rich owner who was spending x amount without having any time to see any of the facts.

Also Its always the same people.

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Well now MTV, I would imagine they have always had the same choices that we''ve had. Twice in the last 15 years we have been in big financial trouble and twice in the last 15 years we have dragged ourselves clear without ripping off local businesses and without selling the club to an arms dealer. I am proud of my club and I would never try to excuse the despicable action of the binners. They had very wealthy people on their board, those people obviously didn''t have enough ambition or didn''t care enough about their club to "invest" their own money in the way Smith & Jones invested theirs.

What I find hard to take is when Norwich fans accuse our club of not having ambition like the binners. They accuse Smith & Jones of being selfish and harming our club because they won''t sell to this type of investor. They say Smith & Jones are not benevolent and will get back at least what they put in. They hunt high and low to try to prove that Smith & Jones have not invested what they say they have.

 

Smith & Jones have always put the interests of the club before their own interests. While they own the club we know we will never end up in the state the binners are in. Yes we got relegated into the Third Division but, like we always do, we got out of it by our own devices.

 

What''s the difference between me and a lot of posters on that thread 3 years ago? I look for reasons to be proud of my club whilst they look for reasons to be jealous of the binners.

 

 

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