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mrs miggins

elliott ward

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ok i know we are unbeaten in about 5 now but i truly do not think he is a good player as many say he is. i don''t get this ''partnership'' with barnett that they have because as the goal against derby showed, the both went for the same ball except ward ducked under the attacker not to head the ball coz he was scared to get hurt and also nearly gave the ball away. it''s good that we got him on a free but all i am saying is that we should buy a CB if we are going to contend for top six for the rest of the season as we''ve only got nelson for replacement.

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I agree.  I have been trying to tell myself to be patient and that he will come good but he hasn''t.  The defence has let in many silly goals this season and most of them could have easily not happened and we would be at least second place.

 

He does get his fair share of blocks and tackles in and he does distribute the ball well but his other parts of his game are pretty useless if I''m honest.  He does win a lot of headers but they just go up in the air and no where.  He is very slow.  He is beaten easily by anyone with the slightest bit of pace or skill and he just doesn''t fill me with confidence.  Derby''s goal yesterday was his fault and if you watch the highlights again he had an absolute mare.  He is an improvemnt on Doherty but I still think he is a weak link though.

 

I so want him to be good because at times he looks class but five minutes later he will go and make a stupid mistake.  I think Barnett and another centre back are the two players we definately need to sign in January.  And Lansbury of course.

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Ward has got his faults (lack of pace, sometimes dawdles on the ball a bit, sometimes gives it away cheaply) but are we going to get someone better than him? Hard to see it. If we were flush with cash then obviously but we''re not and if we did have any areas of the team that urgently needed an upgrade I wouldn''t say he was near the top of the list of priorities.

 

As I''ve said before - to me he''s very similar to Gary Doherty in terms of level of ability. He''s been at a bigger club than Norwich when he was younger and in the past has shown that he might be able to play in the Premier League but for whatever reason it hasn''t quite worked out/gone to plan and he''s now very much a Championship level defender. What I like about him is that he''s a bit dirtier than the Doc was, he will dump someone on their backside if they need it but on the other hand I think his lack of pace could be a problem (definitely more so if we went up a league).

 

Can''t see Norwich City having two better centrebacks than Ward and Barnett at this moment in time.

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The latest in a very long line of scapegoats? It seems as if it''s all that keeps some people going - picking one player to moan about.

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[quote user="Webbo118"]The latest in a very long line of scapegoats? It seems as if it''s all that keeps some people going - picking one player to moan about.[/quote]

I guess we had to find someone new to complain about since Russell Martin has been in the top players in the league with Optima Stats, blew that one out of the water.

As GJP said earlier, Ward is as good as we are going to get for the money we have. He has some good points and some bad ones like nearly every player your going to find at this level. The way we play now is open and attacking often with only one defensive midfielder, like against Ipswich only Croft i would consider to be a tackling robust midfielder, the rest want to pass and move, so our defence is always going to leak goals.

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[quote user="Webbo118"]The latest in a very long line of scapegoats? It seems as if it''s all that keeps some people going - picking one player to moan about.[/quote]

have you watched any of the games recently? He was lucky not to have given a penalty away on saturday - poor ref. and the goal was his fault. he wasn''t sharp enough at ipswich and kept having a shot when he got on the edge of the box which went high every time. I know you love city (just like i do) but am pointing out that we need to improve in this area. obviously you don''t agree and this team can of course be champions of this league and we will sign lansbury for a mear 500k and will find huge investment of £9999,9999,99999... HE is the weak link in our squad (but on a free transfer=could sell later ££)

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he seems to have got worse over the past few games I have seen jim. Being generous I would suggest he is carrying an injury. Being realistic he either is trying to throw games or is completely invompetent.

Not only did he gift a goal yesterday but on the tv clips alone gave away numerous clear goal scoring chances. They were -

Commons breaks through, Ward backs off him and remains static as he pushes it through to Green to shoot

is turned by Green then pulls up a pace after Green goes past him

loses Cywka as he is way out of place and shows no urgency to get back - certain goal saved by Lappin coming across and tackling

2nd half

ducks out of a challenge from a free kick to allow barker a free header

ducks out of a challenge on Moore from a Commons cross that allows a shot off the far post

sits off Commons and allows him a shot

I won''t add the ''penalty'' as that could be considered reckless rather than incompetence.I have no reason to find a scapegoat or the next boo boy but can''t ignore a catalogue of mistakes - so many from a few minutes highlights..

What I would suggest though is that anyone who can access the FLS highlights of the game check those mistakes. We will concede many more unnecessary goals with Ward playing like that.

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Christ, I bet some of you want to see old MMA take down Dobin back.Ward is class, I will go as far as to say if you question it you dont understand football !

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i dont post on this forum but tend to read it from time to time and really think this post is ludicrous. ward is a good quality defender for the league that city currently find themselves in and obviously lambert rates him as hes been a constant first choice player since the start of the season. it wasn''t that long ago that cty had the donkey at the heart of defence and no matter what anyone says ward is a thousand times better thn he ever was if only because he doesn''t rugby tackle opponents on the edge of the city penalty area 5 times a game. yes hes not perfect but honestly, he was on a free, we are still a relatively poor club and really to improve on him i think we have to spend the best part of a million quid that city just dont have and if we did could spend on other area''s of the pitch. persoannly would say that this defense at full strength is a match for the one that city were promoted with back under worthy. fleming was never quick and malkey was a great player but had no almost no speed but knew it and played to his strengths accordingly. so wards lack of pace isn''t really an issue as he plays his way around it. although to be fare he has got a brilliant cb partner at the mement and if we are lucky for the long term too if the money can be found.

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[quote user="Boyo"]

I so want him to be good because at times he looks class but five minutes later he will go and make a stupid mistake.  I think Barnett and another centre back are the two players we definately need to sign in January.  And Lansbury of course.

[/quote]1) Wenger wont sell him2) Hes too good for us !Lansbury could easily hold down a place in a lot of the Prem sides why on earth would he want to make a perma move to us ?If Wenger was willing to sell you can bet a load of people would come in for him , us being very low down the pecking order.Hes with us because Wenger likes passing football and feels Henri needs a few games, we will have him until end of the season at best !

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"Ward is class, I will go as far as to say if you question it you dont understand football !"

Take another look at the highlights of yesterdays game

Ward has been the one player that many fellow fans have been identifying as the weak link

What is lacking is not an understanding of football it is a complete lack of any grasp on reality. His performance on those highlights was possibly one of the worst I have seen in a yellow shirt for many a long season. I post that as a very considered point, not as a cheap shot to inflate a post.

Watch the highlights, his play is worse than any village rec level.

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[quote user="City1st"]"Ward is class, I will go as far as to say if you question it you dont understand football !"

Take another look at the highlights of yesterdays game

Ward has been the one player that many fellow fans have been identifying as the weak link

What is lacking is not an understanding of football it is a complete lack of any grasp on reality. His performance on those highlights was possibly one of the worst I have seen in a yellow shirt for many a long season. I post that as a very considered point, not as a cheap shot to inflate a post.

Watch the highlights, his play is worse than any village rec level.[/quote]You obviously cant be watching a lot of football then !!That is frankly a ludicrous accusation to make !! I guess poor old Ward takes the crown as passed down Dobin. Curse of the Norwich centre back = Fans just dont understand football :((although Dobin was shocking until Lambo lit a fire under his ass ! )

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[quote user="City1st"]"Ward is class, I will go as far as to say if you question it you dont understand football !" Take another look at the highlights of yesterdays game Ward has been the one player that many fellow fans have been identifying as the weak link What is lacking is not an understanding of football it is a complete lack of any grasp on reality. His performance on those highlights was possibly one of the worst I have seen in a yellow shirt for many a long season. I post that as a very considered point, not as a cheap shot to inflate a post. Watch the highlights, his play is worse than any village rec level.[/quote]

Are you one of these people who get there football fix from "watching the highlights" or "watching" the game on Radio Norfolk? Many fellow fans have been highlighting Ward as the weak link !! A few weeks ago, these many fellow fans were highlighting Russell Martin as the weak link. Before that it was Chris Martin, and so on. Get to a few games (including the away ones) and start supporting all the players in your team like the vast majority do.

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[quote user="nevermind"][quote user="Webbo118"]The latest in a very long line of scapegoats? It seems as if it''s all that keeps some people going - picking one player to moan about.[/quote] have you watched any of the games recently? He was lucky not to have given a penalty away on saturday - poor ref. and the goal was his fault. he wasn''t sharp enough at ipswich and kept having a shot when he got on the edge of the box which went high every time. I know you love city (just like i do) but am pointing out that we need to improve in this area. obviously you don''t agree and this team can of course be champions of this league and we will sign lansbury for a mear 500k and will find huge investment of £9999,9999,99999... HE is the weak link in our squad (but on a free transfer=could sell later ££)[/quote]

Have YOU watched any of the games recently? When wasn''t he sharp enough AT Ipswich? Have I missed something?

In answer to your question, yes I have watched all the home games this season and several away also,  as I have done for the past 46 years. As a former semi-pro and qualified referee, I think I have at least a small understanding of the game and I think I am with our manager on this one. We can improve in every area of the team (as can every other team) but it serves no purpose whatsoever to constantly scapegoat individual players, particularly when you have apparently very little understanding of the game. Have you ever played it? Got all your coaching badges?

 

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His "mistakes" are all down to personal interpretation. I think he hooked the ball away for the "penalty", hence it ended up at Martin`s feet near the half-way line- it was a quite brilliant tackle. For Barker`s header he was simply outjumped and outmuscled by a big fella- it happens- you could argue that he did enough to prevent him getting a header on target therefore did a fine job. As for "backing off Commons", Commons will probably be playing in the Prem post-January- backing off/holding up is generally preferable to diving in and getting skinned when faced with such a class player.

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Most of the qualities Ward has are usually hard to spot. He is excellent at reading the game and often pops up with an interception, or is standing in the right place at the right time. Him and Barnett make the classic stopper/sweeper partnership, Leon will push forward to head away a long ball, or apply pressure to the man on the ball, while Ward will cover him if he fails to get to the ball. Also Ward will often manage to nick the ball off the toe of an attacker, he makes this look routine and thus some people aren''t too impressed by it.

One of the best aspects about having Ward in the team is his ability on the ball, he can control and create a passing move from the back, rather than hitting a random long ball up field. In some ways I think Ward would do better in the Premier League than the Championship where his strenghts would be highlighted more and he would probably have to deal with less long balls into the box (not his greatest strenght). To replace him, or buy back up would be a serious waste of our limited resources.

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[quote user="Webbo118"]

[quote user="City1st"]"Ward is class, I will go as far as to say if you question it you dont understand football !" Take another look at the highlights of yesterdays game Ward has been the one player that many fellow fans have been identifying as the weak link What is lacking is not an understanding of football it is a complete lack of any grasp on reality. His performance on those highlights was possibly one of the worst I have seen in a yellow shirt for many a long season. I post that as a very considered point, not as a cheap shot to inflate a post. Watch the highlights, his play is worse than any village rec level.[/quote]

Are you one of these people who get there football fix from "watching the highlights" or "watching" the game on Radio Norfolk? Many fellow fans have been highlighting Ward as the weak link !! A few weeks ago, these many fellow fans were highlighting Russell Martin as the weak link. Before that it was Chris Martin, and so on. Get to a few games (including the away ones) and start supporting all the players in your team like the vast majority do.

[/quote]

Apologies - THEIR

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"Are you one of these people who get there football fix from "watching the highlights" or "watching" the game on Radio Norfolk? Many fellow fans have been highlighting Ward as the weak link !! A few weeks ago, these many fellow fans were highlighting Russell Martin as the weak link. Before that it was Chris Martin, and so on. Get to a few games (including the away ones) and start supporting all the players in your team like the vast majority do."

Pompous twaddle from our self proclaimed qualified expert.

I presume your endless days of watching City were not on the same days you were playing semi pro football or refereeing. My understanding is that the latter two tend to occur on the same dates.

Thanks for you advice about going to games and what I should do there. Since the days of clambering over the fence at the back of the Riverend in the sixties and, if occassionally, I had the sixpence, paying to be able to walk round the Barclay no one has told me that I should be supporting all the players in the team. Silly old me used to support the club and ergo the team.

But theN not being a qualified semi pro, coaching referees, sitting on FIFA etc has left me bereft of such knowledge - until now.

Glad that you know who these ''many fellow fans'' are - even though I have not stated who they are. The insightful powers of being a semi pro City supporter I suppose.

The post questioned Ward''s abilities. I added that I had come to question his recent performances as had others who I chat to about games. Fellow supporters who have been watching City and football for a number of decades. Despite what the self proclaimed qualified coach driver they or I have not engaged in targeted a player to attack. I did point that out earlier - had our semi detached FIFA player had bothered to read.

As one part of the debate I posted up comments about the highlights of the Derby game. Unsuprisingly there has been no reasoned defence (no pun) of Ward''s dreadful play in those highlights. Unsurprisingly that post has flushed out the usual suspects. Those that don''t bother to read the post, nor put up a considered argument but chose to attack the credibility of the other postee(!).

Back to the Derby game, it was Wards lack of action AFTER the missed tackles, it was his ducking out of two headers that caused the concern. Try dealing with that rather than coming on here ''waving your medals''.

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Elliott Ward is better than Nelson and askou, Whitbread wont ever play for us again. barring injuries im not sure askou will either.as ward is betetr than the competition he plays... would you seriously want one of the other 2 playing in place of him?

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"Elliott Ward is better than Nelson and askou"

debatable

However over the last few games his performance has been pretty poor, so whether we have a fit Nelson or a ''dodgy'' Ward is again debatable.

What is not debatable is the series of shocking mistakes seen on the highlights. He seems to be pulling up very quickly after offering half hearted tackles - or simply ducking out of challenges. He was also pretty flat footed against the binners.

No one has claimed he is rubbish, despite absurd posts on here. What is of concern is what is causing that lack of commitment.

How fit are Nelson, Askou and Whitbread and is Lambert being forced to play Ward when he''s not fully fit. Again watch the highlights, he is clearly not giving it his all - that is the debatable point.

Why ?

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[quote user="City1st"]"Elliott Ward is better than Nelson and askou" debatable However over the last few games his performance has been pretty poor, so whether we have a fit Nelson or a ''dodgy'' Ward is again debatable. What is not debatable is the series of shocking mistakes seen on the highlights. He seems to be pulling up very quickly after offering half hearted tackles - or simply ducking out of challenges. He was also pretty flat footed against the binners. No one has claimed he is rubbish, despite absurd posts on here. What is of concern is what is causing that lack of commitment. How fit are Nelson, Askou and Whitbread and is Lambert being forced to play Ward when he''s not fully fit. Again watch the highlights, he is clearly not giving it his all - that is the debatable point. Why ?[/quote]

Having watched the highlights again, as well as watching the game in full on Saturday I really can''t see where you are coming from.

You said he "gifted a goal" to Derby and I think that is very debatable, I don''t think he pulled out of the header or ducked under it, Luke Moore beat him to the ball as he is standing in front of him at the time. Barnett is more at fault for letting Commons get away from him (although that would be very harsh).

In some of the other "mistakes" you mentioned you seem to think he can mark two players at once, or expect him to be faster than lightening to get to balls that are played to Derby players closer than he is. Also, watching highlights alone is always going to make defenders look bad, as they show attackers getting the best of them to create a chance, if you had of seen the game you would of seen that Ward broke up countless attacks by intercepting passes and making headers.

Not all chances/goals come about due to defensive errors, sometimes the defenders have no chance due to clever play etc. Ward has been a good player on the whole this season, and he helps us retain the ball, which in turn helps reduce pressure on the back line -- this makes him superior to Nelson and Askou who are both prone to a big hoof ball.

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With regards to the goal, I think Ward should have done much better, its not so much that he got beaten in the air, but for me he barley made an attempt to attack the ball

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We''ve just been promoted to the Championship, sitting in 4th place...Ward has done nothing wrong for me. Barnett will win every ball there is to be one but he won''t distribute it half as well as Ward does. We need one of the centre backs to be able to do this, and Ward is certainly much more capable than the likes of Nelson.Let''s also remember he has been quoted as being ''premiership class'' by an opposition player as well.Let''s also remember that the man who seems to have got every team selection right so far, continues to play Ward.Let''s also remember that the last ''scapegoat because theres nothing left to complain about'' was Russel Martin. Lambert continued to play him despite unfair criticism and now he''s regarded as one of the most consistent players in our squad.

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Was at the game on Saturday and thought Ward had a really good game alongside Barnett, I think he won just about every ball thrown forward from Derby but the goal(It happens, not really sure where Barnett was off to). A number of important tackles and blocks, including a superb last ditch tackle on the edge of his box towards the end of the game. He brought the ball out from the back, confidently on the deck, starting a number of our attacks.

We''re going away from home to some decent sides and having a go at them, the defence at times is going to be left vulnerable but only 2 sides in the whole division concede less goals per game on the road than us. FACT!

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Very slowly ................ Ward ....... is not ...... being made ......... a scapegoat.

His performaces have been below par. No, I was not at the Derby game, but have seen him look well below par for somewhile.

I have not said he should be in two places at once. Try replying to what is posted, not making somethiung up that is easier to reply to.

For the first goal Ward turns his back onto the striker and has his head down after standing still blocking a more active Barnett. Green goes through and is chased by three City players with Ruddy blosking the shot - Ward simply walks a couple of paces. Total disinterest.

Green turns Ward - whose response is to stand and watch him shoot.

Ward prods half heartedly at Moore then allows Cywka to get ahead of him with little or no attempt to catch him. Woeful, inept defending.

Re-enacting the Parrot Sketch by trying to deny those actions happened is ridiculous. Why they happened is the debate, not some fanciful twaddle about them not happening.

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The amount of goals that he has potentially saved us this season already is massive!

He gets himself in front of everything and blocks watever he can - as he should

he is one of the best CBs in the league in my opinion, the fact we got him on a free was amazing. We may need a backup if Whitbread doesnt get fit soon as i dont think nelson is quite upto the standard we want/need.

As for Ward and Barnett, they look solid to me and i feel more secure about the two CBs than i have since the days of Malky and Fleming.

Give him a break cos he has defo saved us more times than he''s lost a goal for us

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[quote user="City1st"]Very slowly ................ Ward ....... is not ...... being made ......... a scapegoat. His performaces have been below par. No, I was not at the Derby game, but have seen him look well below par for somewhile. I have not said he should be in two places at once. Try replying to what is posted, not making somethiung up that is easier to reply to. For the first goal Ward turns his back onto the striker and has his head down after standing still blocking a more active Barnett. Green goes through and is chased by three City players with Ruddy blosking the shot - Ward simply walks a couple of paces. Total disinterest. Green turns Ward - whose response is to stand and watch him shoot. Ward prods half heartedly at Moore then allows Cywka to get ahead of him with little or no attempt to catch him. Woeful, inept defending. Re-enacting the Parrot Sketch by trying to deny those actions happened is ridiculous. Why they happened is the debate, not some fanciful twaddle about them not happening.[/quote]

I think what you see as a mistake, I see as part and parcel of defending.

Without being able to watch the highlights in your company and explain my point of view it is very hard to debate. I will say for the chance where Green goes through and is chased by 3 City players, Ward is blocking Commons'' run and Green is supposed to be checked by another City player, also as 3 other players are chasing Green what would the point of Ward (who is further away than others) also joining in? He couldn''t have hoped to get a block in and by staying further out he has a greater chance of collecting a rebound - this is basic defending, not everyone should run towards the ball and the player. And again for the goal it is a simple case of being beaten in the air by a player who is in front of him, there is no way he could of got to that ball and you can barely blame Ward for Barnett running into him.

I''m not sure which chances the other ones you are referring to are so can''t really comment. But having watched the game on Saturday at no point did I think "Ward should have done better there".

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[quote user="City1st"]Very slowly ................ Ward ....... is not ...... being made ......... a scapegoat. His performaces have been below par. No, I was not at the Derby game, but have seen him look well below par for somewhile. I have not said he should be in two places at once. Try replying to what is posted, not making somethiung up that is easier to reply to. For the first goal Ward turns his back onto the striker and has his head down after standing still blocking a more active Barnett. Green goes through and is chased by three City players with Ruddy blosking the shot - Ward simply walks a couple of paces. Total disinterest. Green turns Ward - whose response is to stand and watch him shoot. Ward prods half heartedly at Moore then allows Cywka to get ahead of him with little or no attempt to catch him. Woeful, inept defending. Re-enacting the Parrot Sketch by trying to deny those actions happened is ridiculous. Why they happened is the debate, not some fanciful twaddle about them not happening.[/quote]

Well surprise, surprise, I was. I believe the highlights amounted to about 5 minutes. What was your assessment of him in the other 91 minutes?

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