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Hucks Meets Nigel Worthington on www.dh6.co.uk

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[quote user="ſilly ſauſage"][quote user="blahblahblah"]"Actually coping with the bureaucracy? All the tedious stuff? Finding the money for the wages and the transfer fee? No,

I didn''t think so. But this shouldn''t surprise me. I don''t think I''ve

ever seen anyone (including posters here) give Doncaster any credit at

all for what was a masterful piece of chief executiveship."But PC, surely you realise that the job of a CEO is to be unseen - to be taken for granted in that role means that you are doing a good job.  I''ve never once heard of a CEO becoming unpopular or popular at another club - but maybe that''s because I don''t pay as much attention to other clubs.  Nobody writes "football CEO" games, maybe they should as most of the manager games are amazingly dull, maybe there''s another layer of dullness waiting to be introduced ?
[/quote]I think it''s because you probably don''t pay much attention to other clubs.  I should imagine if you searched there''s plenty of Chief Exec stories within ''local'' reports.[/quote]Go on, substantiate that, you know you want to... [:)]

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FAO Nutty Nigel,

Tilly''s insistence was it that brought NCISA into this thread? No Nutty it was my utter amazement that in every single thread previously on this messageboard surrounding Nigel Worthington you have pointed every single time at NCISA for being the culprits for the demise of his reign as manager.You have banged on about St Andrews Hall,press statements,pressure groups,those that know best and so on at every opportunity.For 20 posts and six pages you carried on your crusade before i appeared and 24 hours later you have posted 4 more times and i notice that mtv and Morty have been subjected to your blinkered polarised view that you think  we should all subscribe to.

For Christs sake you must know by now that you are not going to alter views that many posters have concerning the tenure of Nigel Worthington.You hand pick a few moments that you yourself enjoyed during the Premiership year.Yes it was great to beat Man Utd,yes it was a great game to claw back to 4-4 v Boro but those moments and a very few others were very few and far between and dreadful days at Arsenal and Liverpool also spring to mind apart from Fulham.Ashton''s first game v Villa was another City no show.I am sure you do not want me to continue.

Anyway you keep your memories of Worthington and i will keep mine and can we please move on? I shall not be back on this thread so your response which will come as sure as night follows day will be wasted on me.

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[quote user="The Butler"]

I was not involved so how can I say who "negotiated" at that time.

Certainly I do not think that NCISA was involved with that "disgraceful campaign" as posters on here have already stated.

Yes Nutty I went to every home game and some away games. My one abiding memory is beating Man U to little to late.The football at times was.........but then if you buy journeymen you get a team with little heart. As you know my opinion of The Doc was a Div1 CB and a worse striker.

I had little time for O''Neill and I have NOT compared him to Worthington although he did go on to achieve quite a lot I believe.

No it was not Tilly but your veiled reference to me about "pressure groups" but don''t let that colour your thoughts.What EVER anyone says you are firmly convinced that NCISA was behind the "Worthy Out" campaign so no matter who says differently you are not going to change your opinion are you?

[/quote]

 

O’Neill achieved nothing at this club and if we‘re going to judge him on what he achieved elsewhere we should do the same for the others. That would certainly raise the stock of John Bond and Ron Saunders. O’Neill walked out on the club after achieving nothing and I don’t consider his managerial record any more than I would one of the many caretaker managers we had in our time. I loved the guy during his two spells as a player though. Good player for us didn’t you think Butler?

 

Once again it wasn’t me that brought NCISA into this but having been invited I gave my point of view. The comment about solidarity amongst pressure groups was made, tongue in cheek, and accompanied by the appropriate icon. But as both you and Tilly are determined that I should say it - My opinion is that NCISA were firmly behind the Worthy Out protesters. Now you can come back and say they there wasn’t a public statement until half-way through the protest but that won’t alter the fact that they were fully behind the protesters. You can come back and say that it was the views of individuals and not NCISA but by the very fact Blowers statement was a matter of record blows that old chestnut out of the water too. NCISA were fully behind the Worthy Out protest so why not say so?

 

 

[quote user="TIL 1010"]

FAO Nutty Nigel,

Tilly''s insistence was it that brought NCISA into this thread? No Nutty it was my utter amazement that in every single thread previously on this messageboard surrounding Nigel Worthington you have pointed every single time at NCISA for being the culprits for the demise of his reign as manager.You have banged on about St Andrews Hall,press statements,pressure groups,those that know best and so on at every opportunity.For 20 posts and six pages you carried on your crusade before i appeared and 24 hours later you have posted 4 more times and i notice that mtv and Morty have been subjected to your blinkered polarised view that you think we should all subscribe to.

For Christs sake you must know by now that you are not going to alter views that many posters have concerning the tenure of Nigel Worthington.You hand pick a few moments that you yourself enjoyed during the Premiership year.Yes it was great to beat Man Utd,yes it was a great game to claw back to 4-4 v Boro but those moments and a very few others were very few and far between and dreadful days at Arsenal and Liverpool also spring to mind apart from Fulham.Ashton''s first game v Villa was another City no show.I am sure you do not want me to continue.

Anyway you keep your memories of Worthington and i will keep mine and can we please move on? I shall not be back on this thread so your response which will come as sure as night follows day will be wasted on me.

[/quote]

 

I have posted no end of times supporting Worthy over the last 4 years and I think you’ll find everyone was in reply to a post about Worthy that I disagreed with. I don’t think I ever started a thread on the subject. You don’t agree with me then fine, you carry on posting your own opinion and I’ll post mine. What is laughable is how you and a couple of others think you can turn the threads round to a personal attack on me and how you think you can stamp your feet and put down my opinion. It’s up to you if you want to debate it but if not then keep your word and get lost [:O]

 

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I dont really know what you are on Nigel but it must besomething pretty good for you to be so bloody paranoid!

I have not attacked you, blamed you, bawled you out. All I have done is give you my point of view on Worthington and my reasons for getting involved with The campaign.I have also told you that Ncisa were not involved in anyway with this campaign. Now you have changed you attack on them by saying they backed the campaign.

Listen to me Nigel, as a group Ncisa did nothing to help our campaign, they did nothing to organise it.

There were individuals who, as individuals, not as representatives of Ncisa who no doubt wanted Worthington out.

I don''t know how much clearer

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Now you can come back and say they there wasn’t a public statement until half-way through the protest but that won’t alter the fact that they were fully behind the protesters. You can come back and say that it was the views of individuals and not NCISA but by the very fact Blowers statement was a matter of record blows that old chestnut out of the water too. NCISA were fully behind the Worthy Out protest so why not say so?

Ye gods two different posters have stated that THEY were behind the Worthy out campaign but no it was NCISA.!!

There were THOUSANDS who wanted Worthy gone but did NOT support the way the campaign turned. Why must you single out NCISA.

Worthy stated KIDS I am sure Roy and John would love that description.[;)]

That NCISA committee seemed (I was not part of it) to agree that Worthy had over stayed his tenure so reflecting the MAJORITY view, you were minority not NCISA.

I also notice you did not bother, in your role of Worthy champion, to reply to Purple Canaries post. Surprising as it was far more inflamatory than any I have posted.

Then he is not NCISA is he.

I think Tilly has the best plan. Enjoy the rest of the thread.

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[quote user="mtv"]I dont really know what you are on Nigel but it must besomething pretty good for you to be so bloody paranoid! I have not attacked you, blamed you, bawled you out. All I have done is give you my point of view on Worthington and my reasons for getting involved with The campaign.I have also told you that Ncisa were not involved in anyway with this campaign. Now you have changed you attack on them by saying they backed the campaign. Listen to me Nigel, as a group Ncisa did nothing to help our campaign, they did nothing to organise it. There were individuals who, as individuals, not as representatives of Ncisa who no doubt wanted Worthington out. I don''t know how much clearer[/quote]

If you have marks on your forehead MTV don''t panic it''s a common problem dealing with dear Nutty it comes from constantly banging your head against a brick wall!

Anyway thanks for the attempt at putting an old myth to bed[:D]

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*Sorry pressed the wrong button*

I don''t know how much clearer I can put it or why you seem to think I need to!!!

You on the other hand have taken a very aggresive pose in you replies to me, you have tried to belittle what I have said and my reasons for doing what I did....why?

Several times you have ''nit picked'' bits of my posts to try and gain an advantage, like Why didn''t I start a Worthy out campaign when Worthington used Wednesday to get a rise...well firstly I did not start the worthy out campaign anyway. and as I clearly stated Sheff Wednesday ''gate'' was ONE of the reasons for my EVENTUAL decision for wanting him to go.

Your persistance in calling the campaign ''discraceful'' is disgraceful in its self. The campaign was not a ''dirty'' campaign, it wasn''t a disgraceful campaign. It was a typical fans campaign to get rid of an unpopular manager.Had Worthington had gone when he should have it would not have been needed to campaign at all.

I have no problem with debating this with you, but keep it clean and stop moving the goal posts to suit your arguement.

You obviously have issues with other posters and are just not going to believe anything anyone tells you, but as someone who was in at the beggining of the Worthy out campaign, things related to that issue I Know are ''Facts''!

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For the second time, and so that there should be no confusion, in my opinion NCISA were fully behind the Worthy Out campaign. I did not say they instigated it. I said they were fully behind it. Right through to handing a red card to Worthy at the Burnley game. It was common knowledge throughout so why the rush to deny it now?

 

I have my opinion on Worthy and remember the good times where as others just seem to remember Fulham and Burnley. One poster on here made his mind up in 2001 and stewed for four years until he could get it off his chest!

 

Now MTV, I don''t know who you are either and I don''t know whether you post facts or make it all up. I post my opinion and back it up, where ever possible with facts. It wasn''t me who first used the word disgraceful to describe how some fans treated Worthy back then. But what I can say is that some of the stuff made up to discredit Worthy was disgraceful and it''s all on this message board if you''d like to go and find it.

 

Butler - Purple posted his opinion and he gives great credit to Neil Doncaster. He''s entitled to that opinion isn''t he? I notice you didn''t disagree with it! However one guy who deserves enormous credit for the signing of Hucks was Barry Skipper. Another one who was slated by the Worty Out people five years ago. What did you reckon to Barry Skipper Butler?

 

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I can see why people get frustrated with you Nigel, You are just about calling me a liar! Why?

I have assured you that there was no Ncisa involvement in the organising and running of the worthy out campaign.

Now you are harping on about ''backing'' Ncisa as a group did not back, help aid, support or anything else. I know this for a fact, what have I said that makes you disbelieve me? I was there, I was involved ...they weren''t.

The general opinion of the people running the campaign was that Ncisa were ditherers who were to slow and that they were not taking action so we did!

Now did individual members of the Ncisa committee want worthy out? Ofcourse they did the same as 80% of the paying fans (fact as per survey)

Did they join a march or protest? probably but as I am not nor never been a member of Ncisa I would not know who they were anyway!

Just one question left from me for now Nigel!

Can you tell me how you back up an opinion?

Just wonder thats all!

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I am going to break my word and come back in answer to some of the incredible crap that Mr Paranoid Blinkered Obsessed Nutty has posted.

" I dont think i ever started a thread on the subject"(Worthington)......tell me where i said you did.This from Mr You Have Not Read My Post Properly Please Read It Again Nutty.

"I have posted no end of times supporting Worthy over the last 4 years"..........A masterclass in the art of understatement.

"NCISA were fully behind the Worthy out protest so why not say so"..........Now you stupid man i am going to shout to you in computer language.NCISA NEVER MET WITH ANY MEMBERS OF THE WORTHY OUT PROTEST GROUP.NCISA HAD NO TELEPHONE CONVERSATIONS WITH THEM.NCISA DID NOT RECEIVE ANY COMMUNICATION FROM THEM EITHER BY LETTER OR E-MAIL.

NCISA ARRANGED THE OPEN MEETING AT ST ANDREWS HALL FOR ALL FANS NOT FOR OR IN CONJUNCTION WITH THE WORTHY OUT PROTEST GROUP.

THE PRESS RELEASE WAS ISSUED WITHOUT ANY COLLUSION WITH THE WORTHY OUT PROTEST GROUP.

Now please explain how the hell we were fully behind them.At best we may well have agreed with their sentiment.

Awaiting your distortion and inflammatory words but this time i will not be back because Nutty you are well getting on my chimes.

 

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Well....I understand it...Til 1010 understand it...........

Nigel................?

oh I would not place a bet on it!

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MTV - do you think people get frustrated with me? Why? I just post my opinion and stick to it. I don''t ask others "what they''re on" or get personal. I back my opinion up with whatever made me form it.

 

Here''s an example : -

 

In my opinion NCISA were fully behind the Worthy Out campaign. I did not say they instigated it. I said they were fully behind it.

 

I reached that opinion through NCISA statements including the one from Roy Blower in December 2005 which included these phrases “NCISA believes the board should act now or the consequences for the club could be dire." And “If they don''t take notice they live with the peril that could bring - it is time to act.”.

 



 

 

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Oh my good God....you just can''t be helped...you have totally ignored the Facts! And used a press release by Ncisa about the outcome of their meeting at Andrews Hall.. What has that got to do with Worthy Out and its campaign? What?

It was to do with The meeting at St Andrews Hall and the outcome! It would have been a very strange meeting if it had no outcome!

We hijacked that meeting for our own ends! We wanted to promote our Protest March and it was an ideal place to do it, with all the media there.

Their press release was a conclusion of their meeting with the fans and having attended that meeting it was a massive majority who agreed with the words in that statement.

Statement had nothing to do with Worthy out in any way shape or form it was the opinion of those who attended the meeting

So now tell me how your assumption is all of a sudden a FACT?

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[quote user="mtv"]Oh my good God....you just can''t be helped...you have totally ignored the Facts! And used a press release by Ncisa about the outcome of their meeting at Andrews Hall.. What has that got to do with Worthy Out and its campaign? What? It was to do with The meeting at St Andrews Hall and the outcome! It would have been a very strange meeting if it had no outcome! We hijacked that meeting for our own ends! We wanted to promote our Protest March and it was an ideal place to do it, with all the media there. Their press release was a conclusion of their meeting with the fans and having attended that meeting it was a massive majority who agreed with the words in that statement. Statement had nothing to do with Worthy out in any way shape or form it was the opinion of those who attended the meeting So now tell me how your assumption is all of a sudden a FACT?[/quote]

Get used to it mtv because he is beyond help.He never answer anything with a direct straightforward reply,he just shifts the goal posts and then throws something into the mix to confuse the issue.If you notice a page or two back totally out of the blue he threw Barry Skipper into the equation.Where that came from God above knows.

You took your course of action,we took ours but somewhere in his head has collusion and conspiracy running rampant.

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[quote user="nutty nigel"]Now MTV, I don''t know who you are either and I don''t know whether you post facts or make it all up. [/quote]I''ve never met MTV but know him through another Message Board and I can assure you what he is posting is fact.

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[quote user="mtv"]Oh my good God....you just can''t be helped...you have totally ignored the Facts! And used a press release by Ncisa about the outcome of their meeting at Andrews Hall.. What has that got to do with Worthy Out and its campaign? What? It was to do with The meeting at St Andrews Hall and the outcome! It would have been a very strange meeting if it had no outcome! We hijacked that meeting for our own ends! We wanted to promote our Protest March and it was an ideal place to do it, with all the media there. Their press release was a conclusion of their meeting with the fans and having attended that meeting it was a massive majority who agreed with the words in that statement. Statement had nothing to do with Worthy out in any way shape or form it was the opinion of those who attended the meeting So now tell me how your assumption is all of a sudden a FACT?[/quote]

 

Are you telling me the NCISA meeting at St Andrews Hall had nothing to do with getting Worthy out? What was it.. a bric-a-brac sale?

 

You hijacked a meeting which NCISA had organised to get Worthy out for your own ends - which were to get Worthy out.

 

The NCISA statement had nothing to do with getting Worthy out? Get real what was it about then?

 

Would you expect fans who didn''t want Worthy Out to be at that meeting? I suppose you expect to see vegitarians in a butchers shop!

 

I will say again... take four.... 

In my opinion NCISA were fully behind the Worthy Out campaign. I did not say they instigated it. I said they were fully behind it.

 

"what are you on"  "Oh my good god you can''t be helped" Where''s the need for it? If you want to play like that I can soon change and reply in the same vein. Do you have anger management therapy?

 

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We hijacked that meeting to promote the March that we had planned, we used Ncisa''s meeting because they had the press there.....We did not hijack the meeting in any other way>

The hall was full of fans and as I saw it Ncisa wanted to get their views, wether Ncisa as a group wanted Worthy out, I dont know but as sure as hell the vast majority of those there did want him out!

How do you know that Ncisa backed our actions? When I dont know that!

How do you know Nigel? how? I was involved and I didnt know they supported what we did!

As a group they put out a statement saying that they wanted the board to take action, NOT that they wanted us to take action. As far as I know no one from Ncisa said to us that Ncisa was backing us.....so how do you know that, eh mate?

You all but called me a liar, you have tried to belittle my motives and called my actions disgusting and you have the flaming audasity (sp) to have a go at me for being personal. You refuse to accept the facts from both sides on blethering on about something that just did not happen. you have refused to answer any points that have been put to you, you ''opinions'' have been shown to be wrong but you just refuse to have it.

Nigel I was there involved, you were not. I have no reason to lie or to defend Ncisa. So why do you think I am?

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A minor point mtv...

Ncisa said they wanted the board to take action not you to take action...eh? What was the point of your "movement" if it wasn''t to get the board to take action? So you had a mutual objective.

Perhaps I''m missing something and you do the hiring and firing but one would hope that if that was the case you wouldn''t need to hijack meetings...

Also, I''m not sure that Nigel is wrong, it seems to me that some people can''t differentiate between active organisation and the complicit facilitation of additional publicity for the organising group. At best it''s guilty by association...just my opinion of course..

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Both NCISA and worthy outers seem totally ignorant of basic statistics. Having a the majority agreement of a group of protesters is not the same as having the agreement of support of the majority of supporters. 3000 divided by 20000 is 15 per cent.

Neither seems bright enough to work out that A football clubs position is driven by its finances and based on the income from its supporters we are best a mid table championship club. Neither do they seem to appreciate that only three out of 24 clubs can get promoted, accordingly most managers were failed. The fans helped get rid of an out performing manager. I appreciate the honesty but I do not appreciate the stupidity of theof these organisations which only had an adverse impact on the club.

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[quote user="T"]Both NCISA and worthy outers seem totally ignorant of basic statistics. Having a the majority agreement of a group of protesters is not the same as having the agreement of support of the majority of supporters. 3000 divided by 20000 is 15 per cent. Neither seems bright enough to work out that A football clubs position is driven by its finances and based on the income from its supporters we are best a mid table championship club. Neither do they seem to appreciate that only three out of 24 clubs can get promoted, accordingly most managers were failed. The fans helped get rid of an out performing manager. I appreciate the honesty but I do not appreciate the stupidity of theof these organisations which only had an adverse impact on the club.[/quote]

T this is slightly off course, as the manner of capitulation and the performances after need to be taken into consideration.

Also I have met VERY few people who wanted Worthy to remain,many who will not even speak aloud never mind sign a petition!

Your theory is fine about our ability if it were not for what had been achieved in the past AND what the present setup is stating their goal for the future is.

Perhaps IF the board had acted, as the chairman stated later, in time, the actions of these"good intentioned stupid minority" might not have been necessary

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Why didn''t Nigel Worthington resign.....?

 

.....Maybe it was a money thing......y''know.....the compensation payout would be considerably more substantial if one was removed from office, as opposed to gracefully standing down or falling on one''s sword? One in the eye, to those who despise and dispose....I suppose. If the then squad had wanted Worthy to remain as manager, surely as professionals, they would/should have pulled out all the stops on the pitch to keep him in post?

That''s unless, the then squad were closet/covert NCISA members?   

 

Anyway, I just thought (and coupled with the board that gave him the boot) it was quite evident that the previous board, ND as CE.....and with Worthy as manager, certainly weren''t the people to take the club forward after our brief flirt with the Premiership. It would also have been an unmitigated disaster if Worthy (having been approached by the previous board) had accepted and returned as manager....What were the previous  board thinking of? 

 

I still personally don''t think that Worthington is/was a good manager, at either International or Premiership level......I even doubt whether he would cut it in the Championship.

 

But, we all have and are entitled to our opinions......now, that is a FACT.

 

 

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[quote user="nutty nigel"]

[quote user="mtv"]Oh my good God....you just can''t be helped...you have totally ignored the Facts! And used a press release by Ncisa about the outcome of their meeting at Andrews Hall.. What has that got to do with Worthy Out and its campaign? What? It was to do with The meeting at St Andrews Hall and the outcome! It would have been a very strange meeting if it had no outcome! We hijacked that meeting for our own ends! We wanted to promote our Protest March and it was an ideal place to do it, with all the media there. Their press release was a conclusion of their meeting with the fans and having attended that meeting it was a massive majority who agreed with the words in that statement. Statement had nothing to do with Worthy out in any way shape or form it was the opinion of those who attended the meeting So now tell me how your assumption is all of a sudden a FACT?[/quote]

 

Are you telling me the NCISA meeting at St Andrews Hall had nothing to do with getting Worthy out? What was it.. a bric-a-brac sale?

 

You hijacked a meeting which NCISA had organised to get Worthy out for your own ends - which were to get Worthy out.

 

The NCISA statement had nothing to do with getting Worthy out? Get real what was it about then?

 

Would you expect fans who didn''t want Worthy Out to be at that meeting? I suppose you expect to see vegitarians in a butchers shop!

 

I will say again... take four.... 

In my opinion NCISA were fully behind the Worthy Out campaign. I did not say they instigated it. I said they were fully behind it.

 

"what are you on"  "Oh my good god you can''t be helped" Where''s the need for it? If you want to play like that I can soon change and reply in the same vein. Do you have anger management therapy?

 

[/quote]

"Would you expect fans who didn''t want Worthy Out to be at that meeting?"

Well believe it or not there were some there who had the balls unlike some i could name to state the case on behalf of keeping Worthington in a job and Peter Wolsey stood up and gave a very passionate speech which finished with the words " I say back him not sack him". That speech was politely acknowledged by  those present and was not shouted down or heckled.Those of the same view then voted accordingly and i admire them for it.

Instead of all this old tosh you have spent the last 4 years posting on here may i ask why did you not have the balls to do the same as the likes of Peter Wolsey or if you were unable to attend write to the press which after all has a far bigger and wider audience than this messageboard.

Not being a NCISA member why the obsession with how they acted during this period of the history of NCFC.

You remind me of people who do not vote at the General Election and then spend their time moaning and groaning about Government policies.

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I haven''t called you a liar MTV. In fact I''m an extremely patient poster as I am being now despite your rants. I haven''t called your actions disgusting either. What I did say, and Hucks said before me, was that the way Worthy was treated by a small amount of fans was nothing short of disgraceful. Now I don''t know you from Adam but if you''re saying you are part of that small group of fans then you''re branding yourself as a disgrace. If you''re not then it''s nothing to do with you.

 

I will answer any question on here quite happily and didn''t realise I hadn''t so ask it again.

 

Just to repeat yet again - take five - In my opinion NCISA were fully behind the Worthy Out campaign. I did not say they instigated it. I said they were fully behind it.

October 2005 NCISA Committee voted to call for a change of manager.

December 2005 Roy Blower made that statement publicly calling for a change of manager threatening peril if the board didn''t act.

March 2006 NCISA organised the meeting at St Andrews Hall which you claim to have hijacked.

How do you explain those actions if they weren''t behind getting Worthy out?

 

I think The Butler is confusing the feelings of the fans in October 2006 with that in October 2005. Yes by the time of that Burnley game there was a lot more fans against Worthy but this was had been fuelled by a year of protest. That year of protest certainly affected performances on the field and as Hucks said there was a feeling around the place that some fans were waiting for us to lose, even when we were winning.

 

T makes some good points. In the season where NCISA voted for a change of manager, and NCISA made that statement threatening dire consequences should the board not heed their words, Worthy’s team finished 9th in the Championship. We have never achieved that since. In fact ALL Worthys seasons coincide with the 5 best seasons our club has had in the last 15 years. This can’t be put down to luck can it?

 

Yet when many of us asked the Worthy Out protesters how do they know it would be better if Worthy was sacked we were constantly told “anybody would be better than Worthy.”

 

After Worthy we had Peter Grant, an appointment lauded by NCISA in their Pink uUn Column. He downgraded our squad to such a degree we became relegation fodder. Tilly and Butler’s lame excuse for this is to blame Worthy because of the contracts his players had. Somehow they construe it was Worthy’s fault that we replaced Earnie with Cureton, Etuhu with Russell, Safri with Fotheringham and so on. To me that is laughable. The next season we probably only stayed up through Worthy’s remaining players notably Hucks and Dion. After Dion retired and Roeder showed Hucks the door we were relegated. It’s my firm opinion that we would never have been relegated under Worthy’s management. The grass isn’t always greener and it must now be obvious to everyone that just anybody wasn’t better than Worthy.

 

Tilly, you remind me of someone who votes at a General Election, get it totally wrong, and them when the Government you voted for balls it up you blame everyone but yourself.

 

 

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A few more hundred words from Nutty which totally and utterly ignores the question i asked surrounding Peter Wolsey.What a surprise.

As for the NCISA column "lauding" Peter Grant i wrote it and got it wrong about him being a manager.A gentleman who is passionate about the game,500 games for Celtic counts for nothing in many peoples eyes but a succession of managers have made him their coach...Pardew,Mowbray and now McLeish so maybe he is one of those guys who can coach but not manage.

Unlike your man he had the decency to fall on his sword when his time was up which carries my respect as it did a lot of fans at the time.

Yet again you refer to the downgrading of the squad and on another thread you gave Cureton for Ashton and Russell for Etuhu as an example.You chose as usual to ignore what i said that Grant was unaware of the get out clauses that they had only 3 months into his tenure so please stop making it sound that it was his choice to get rid.

As for your in bed stance between NCISA and the Worthy Out guys i just hope David Cameron never makes an official visit to North Korea as you will say we agree with their current political state.

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I have not ranted, could do but have been very restrained despite your constant evasions and twisting of the real facts, facts that I have given because I was actually apart of the events, unlike you who sat on your computer whinging about fan activists who not only cared about their club but where prepared to put themselves in the firing line and take all the abuse thrown at them by a bitter and vindictive few.

What did you do Nigel to help your hero?

At no time did I say I was part of a small goup. We we the vast majority of paying fans who wanted Worthington out. Because one ex player and you called it disgraceful, does not make it so. It was a great campaign with the proper outcome.

How did your campaign to keep him in a job go?

For the fifth rebuttal Ncisa did not back our campaign, physically,verbally, neither behind the scenes or in public, they did nothing finacially or in any other way to back or support the campaign.

If as individuals they supported the campaign then they were with 10''s of thousand of other paying fans who wanted him gone. But as a group...nothing, zilch, zero, nowt.

Please explain just how you can prove that Ncisa as a group supported the Worthy Out campaign in ANY way?

Now if you can''t can I politely suggest you say sorry and stop writing things that you can''t prove.

You keep bleating on and on about his achievements and no one is disagreeing about them, But you refuse to accept that the very same people that are prepared to find common ground with you, have a valid opinion about Worthington''s short comings!

Are you seriously saying that Worthingtons team were playing our style of football at the end?Are you seriously saying that Worthingtons team were playing for him at the end? (Don''t bring in one players opinion when it was obvious for anyone to see on the pitch)

To then bring in the short comings of the past board by who they appointed, this was the same board that made gaff after gaff after gaff, to expect them to get the right manager after clinging on to worthington for atleast a season to long.

The Board at that time were responsible for our plight over the next few years, as much as the board now can take credit for what they have achieved to date.

Results Nigel, in the end its all about results (and I dont just mean results on the pitch)

You are obviously are a very bitter man regarding your savour Nigel...so why did you just sit on you backside and do nothing about it?

I''d love to know the answer to that one

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If it''s all about results MTV, then why didn''t you go after Grant, or Roeder for that matter ? Why not Gunn ?

Not to mention that we got off to a flyer at the start of the season that NW left. So if it was all about results, why hadn''t you packed the campaign up by then ?

If you want my opinion, and I doubt you do but I''ll give it to you anyway, it was about you getting your own way - and you weren''t too fussy about what mud you threw at your target to make some stick.

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As you full well know, I was talking about the boards decisions but also just who do you think I am? I was just a person who assisted the organisers of that campaign. I am not clever enough to put together such a thing nor would I claim to be.

I have said all the way through this debate that I respect nigels opinion so why would I not take your opinion on board?

The campaign was soley aimed at replacing the manager it was nor more or less ''messy'' than any other protest over the years at many football clubs. Any ''mud'' that got throw was desreved imo, and if it stuck and it helped to get rid of that man the ''good''. you sound like we should have all sat round with a cup of tea and politely request his departure.

As we saw it, it was a battle for our clubs very future and that was far more important that one mans feelings.

Thats how I saw it anyway.

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"As we saw it, it was a battle for our clubs very future and that was far more important that one mans feelings. Thats how I saw it anyway. "

So you won your "battle for the future", and several years after you win your battle, we''ve only just recovered.

Congratulations.

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[quote user="The Butler"]

[quote user="T"]Both NCISA and worthy outers seem totally ignorant of basic statistics. Having a the majority agreement of a group of protesters is not the same as having the agreement of support of the majority of supporters. 3000 divided by 20000 is 15 per cent. Neither seems bright enough to work out that A football clubs position is driven by its finances and based on the income from its supporters we are best a mid table championship club. Neither do they seem to appreciate that only three out of 24 clubs can get promoted, accordingly most managers were failed. The fans helped get rid of an out performing manager. I appreciate the honesty but I do not appreciate the stupidity of theof these organisations which only had an adverse impact on the club.[/quote]

T this is slightly off course, as the manner of capitulation and the performances after need to be taken into consideration.

Also I have met VERY few people who wanted Worthy to remain,many who will not even speak aloud never mind sign a petition!

Your theory is fine about our ability if it were not for what had been achieved in the past AND what the present setup is stating their goal for the future is.

Perhaps IF the board had acted, as the chairman stated later, in time, the actions of these"good intentioned stupid minority" might not have been necessary

[/quote]

The question is would the performances declined so far if it was not for the protest movement?

Do you mean Norwich''s past historical average performance of 12th in the second division consistent with the finance provided by its supporters? or do you mean the amazing performances in the first league in a past before sky and foreign investors which has no relevance to the current post sky world? Do you mean the aim in the future which is no different and no more achievable than the majority of other championship football clubs, or a future where the management will not risk the financial position as the previous management did when we got promoted, or the aim that we get relegated the first time that we are promoted? or the analysis that we need a regular 35,000 crowd to be a sustainable premiership club?

The financial reality is that the fans finance a mid-table championship club. Worthy out-performed the financial resources and it is tough to find a manger that will do that as we should know by now.

However, that is all in the past. What really worries me though is that the lack of grasp of reality means that the same mistake will be made when inevitable at some stage things do not go right for Lambert.

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As we saw it, it was a battle for our clubs very future and that was far more important that one mans feelings. Thats how I saw it anyway. "

So you won your "battle for the future", and several years after you win your battle, we''ve only just recovered.

Congratulations.

Well thank you! I think out downward spiral has more to do with how long Worthington stayed and How many bad apointments the old Board made.

So with your support of the former, I think you should congratulate yourself for backing failure year after year.

Well Done!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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