BBC angle on Holts challenge

[Lambert is King 0]

With the bbc describing Holts challenge tonight as a 2 footed lunge, I thought what have they seen that we have not. I went to the bbc website like you do to review their highlights. The challenge was there and it looked no different to that on Sky. Then they show a replay which would also be the referees angle. Unfortunately I am not sophisticated enough to watch this frame by frame, but I can pause it at 2 mins 32 seconds. At this point imo both of Holts feet have left the ground, have a look

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/eng_div_1/9188652.stm

 I know there are a few refs that come on here. Can one of you have a look at that angle and let us know what you think and what the rules are as I thought if both your feet leave the ground when making a challenge it is an automatic red card.

I have watched it so many times now and it certainly does not look so good from that anlgle followed by the comment and did he jump in ? I will leave you all to decide. My opinion for what its worth - certainly was not a lunge, but did his feet both leave the ground and he pulled out at last second I think yes and if this is seen by the panel they would certainly find plenty of reasons to uphold the decision.

By the way dont shoot the messenger just showing the bbc angle as I must say I still cant decide either way but it certainly looks different to SKY

[CJ 0]

I am a referee and the one thing hammered into me over key decisions especially therefore penalty and sending offs is only give them  if you are CERTAIN it is justified and never get rushed into a knee jerk reaction.On a two footed challenge this is  denoted where a player leaves the floor travelling fairly fast often almost horizontally with studs showing. Clearly in that state a player has little control over where they end up and are lethal should someone be standing in the way.Clearly Holt was doing none of the above, that is the studs were not showing  very little horizontal movement, he looked in control of his tackle and the only contact visible is shin to shin. To be honest also the Refs body language is terrible when he issues the red card , I always tell the player why I have issued the card and have the guts to look the player in the face neither of which the ref had the balls to do, that is he hadnt the confidence to do it right!The more I look at it the more I realise how Harte sold a nothing challenge which yes was a foul probably not even a caution into a red, probably because he knew Holt was running riot thru his defence. To be honest if Mr Oliver can not have the guts to withdraw his red card he does not deserve to referee even at a Sunday Park level and I am sure City fans will give him the reception he deserves if he comes anywhere near Carrow Road

[pete_norw 0]

[quote user="Lambert is King"]

With the bbc describing Holts challenge tonight as a 2 footed lunge, I thought what have they seen that we have not. I went to the bbc website like you do to review their highlights. The challenge was there and it looked no different to that on Sky. Then they show a replay which would also be the referees angle. Unfortunately I am not sophisticated enough to watch this frame by frame, but I can pause it at 2 mins 32 seconds. At this point imo both of Holts feet have left the ground, have a look

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/eng_div_1/9188652.stm

 I know there are a few refs that come on here. Can one of you have a look at that angle and let us know what you think and what the rules are as I thought if both your feet leave the ground when making a challenge it is an automatic red card.

I have watched it so many times now and it certainly does not look so good from that anlgle followed by the comment and did he jump in ? I will leave you all to decide. My opinion for what its worth - certainly was not a lunge, but did his feet both leave the ground and he pulled out at last second I think yes and if this is seen by the panel they would certainly find plenty of reasons to uphold the decision.

By the way dont shoot the messenger just showing the bbc angle as I must say I still cant decide either way but it certainly looks different to SKY

[/quote]

This has been my concern too, the FA and BBC, but thankfully there are more than one camera here and the whole world and his wife saw the tackle, I think this ref has goofed on other occasions and the FA need to curb his inept way of reffing ,I trust the club have asked the FA to look at the smith tackle aswell

[Matt Morriss 69]

Good point how on earth can Holts red card stand given the late challenge that went completely unpunished and resulted in Lambert being sent to the stands.

The fact is if this doesn''t get overturned this incompetent ref will have cost potentially 12 points as we will be weaker for the next 3 games.

[a1canary 0]

I can see where you''re coming from LiK. I put this on another post that i was a little concerned that an argument could be made (by Oliver) that he''s gone in with intent. There is a moment where both his feet are off the ground. I think he''s seen it and thought just for a second "i''m gonna go in hard here" and then very quickly changed his mind and pulled out. Either way, you don''t get a red card for that and certainly not for the outcome which was not even a ''collision of shins'' as Claridge put it. It''s a brushing of shins!

[Yelloow Since 72 54]

I''ve looked at both the BBC version and the I-Player version again and it''s the same view that Steve Claridge is describing as a clash of shins. Yes, Holt''s feet do leave the ground as he comes in, but his studs are always facing the ground, not Harte (who doesn''t even grab the part of his shin where the contact happened). Can the FA reduce the red card to a yellow?

If they uphold this decision and ban Holt for 3 games, especially after the Korey Smith challenge where a free-kick wasn''t even awarded, then they can stuff their ''Respect'' campaign for referees until they get more competent refs in.

[pete_norw 0]

[quote user="Yelloow Since 72"]

I''ve looked at both the BBC version and the I-Player version again and it''s the same view that Steve Claridge is describing as a clash of shins. Yes, Holt''s feet do leave the ground as he comes in, but his studs are always facing the ground, not Harte (who doesn''t even grab the part of his shin where the contact happened). Can the FA reduce the red card to a yellow?

If they uphold this decision and ban Holt for 3 games, especially after the Korey Smith challenge where a free-kick wasn''t even awarded, then they can stuff their ''Respect'' campaign for referees until they get more competent refs in.

[/quote]

I had the thought of Perhaps we should Boycott the FA cup if they do uphold the card, and also perhaps refuse to allow the FA to stage U21''s at Carrow road, And all club chairman''s get toether and send a letter to the FA refusing to let this ref onto thier clubs premisis. Only reason why they won''t is loss of revenue. 

[Gingerpele 0]

This is how i saw it,

Holt started chasing, then he stopped when he thought Harte had control (maybe not completely still, but he defiantly took a step down in his chasing efforts) But Harte didn''t control the ball very well, and Holt almost leaped towards the ball, but missed it as it went too far ahead of both players, and he quite clearly caught his shins....And that angle, you can see how the ref saw it, and i still don''t understand why he sent him off....I think Harte''s reaction had a major role in the red, he didn''t pull it out the second after the challenge, maybe after looking at Harte, he thought Holt had connected higher up, with his studs?

It seriously better be overturned...

If not, can we start an East Anglia FA (like the welsh one...)

[The Great Drinkell 50]

A friend of a friends uncles mother spoke to Mr Oliver after the match and he sent Holt off not for a bad tackle but because he thought Harte was the last man.

The blokes a joke

 

 

(and so is this post just in case)

[Tangible Fixed Assets anyone? 0]

[quote user="The Great Drinkell"]

A friend of a friends uncles mother spoke to Mr Oliver after the match and he sent Holt off not for a bad tackle but because he thought Harte was the last man.

The blokes a joke

[/quote]

 

You remind me of ''nana!