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Captain Fantastic

Martin truly exposed yesterday.

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Think yesterday showed that Russell Martin still isn''t good enough for a starting 11 berth. Gradel made him look like a fool for 60 minutes. Today underlined how much work K.Smith really does for him, probably doing two people''s jobs at times. I''d seriously consider getting in a loan RB.

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WHAT?

If your even slightly serious, you really really need your head checking don''t you?

He''s been one of the best players for us this season, probably only Crofts doing any better than him.....

You know, players are allowed to have a bad game, you can''t seriously say he needs replacing on the back of ONE sub-standerd performance, if we did that, then Holt, Hoolahan, Martin, Smith, Ward, Lappin, Ruddy, Macnamee wouldn''t be playing would they?

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[quote user="Gingerpele"]WHAT?

If your even slightly serious, you really really need your head checking don''t you?

He''s been one of the best players for us this season, probably only Crofts doing any better than him.....

You know, players are allowed to have a bad game, you can''t seriously say he needs replacing on the back of ONE sub-standerd performance, if we did that, then Holt, Hoolahan, Martin, Smith, Ward, Lappin, Ruddy, Macnamee wouldn''t be playing would they?[/quote]

One sub standard performance? He''s been carried by Smith most of this season and still has his bad old habits, without Smith yesterday, we saw the real and old Martin.

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I''m sure....Korey Smith is playing wonderfully as a midfielder and full back at the same time....If he was a premiership team would be in for him by now, he isn''t that good, if he was, he seriously wouldn''t still be here.....

And anyway, it makes much much more sense to say that whoever was in front of Martin yesterday (Macnamee?) wasn''t as good as Korey Smith...

I really really don''t understand your comments at all. Also, Martin has played well without Korey on the pitch this season anyway...

And also, if he was that bad (and Ward was mean''t to be [pretty poor) how did we only concede one goal?

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[quote user="Jacko"]Think yesterday showed that Russell Martin still isn''t good enough for a starting 11 berth. Gradel made him look like a fool for 60 minutes. Today underlined how much work K.Smith really does for him, probably doing two people''s jobs at times. I''d seriously consider getting in a loan RB.[/quote]I agree yesterday wasn''t his best, but I''ll be first to hold my hand up and admit I slated him at the start of the season and he has proven me wrong.  He''s been a revelation over the last few games, and although he struggled yesterday he definitely deserves his place in the starting 11.  Obviously when McNamee is playing he will be more exposed than when Smith plays, but he definitely deserves to be out there.

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P.s

Most other fans, and Paul Lambert have just gotten it wrong about him over every other game this season?

I''m sure if Lambert (The manager...you know, the one who knows more than all of us), could have replaced him, Steve Finnan is still without a club, surely if Martin wasn''t good enough, we could/would have signed him?

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[quote user="Jacko"]Think yesterday showed that Russell Martin still isn''t good enough for a starting 11 berth. Gradel made him look like a fool for 60 minutes. Today underlined how much work K.Smith really does for him, probably doing two people''s jobs at times. I''d seriously consider getting in a loan RB.[/quote]Here speaks a person who clearly doesn''t understand the various nuances of the game of football.I''ll break it down for you - leave Gradel 1 v 1 against any full back in the league, then he wins. Similar to MacNamee against Burnley. Martin did incredibly well to keep him at bay as much as possible.You''re right that Martin was exposed. Left exposed through a lack of defensive support, which Korey normally does very well.

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Very hard game for Russell Martin yesterday. Gradel is so quick to move the ball with his feet, his change of pace and direction makes him a real threat. He''ll cause any defender a lot of problems if he''s left 1 on 1 with them.

 

As it goes I don''t think Russell Martin did any worse than Elliott Ward who had a bit of a mare yesterday. Lappin also struggled a bit at times but then he''s not a natural left back and Snodgrass is a very tricky customer.

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[quote user="Essexiled Canary"][quote user="Jacko"]Think yesterday showed that Russell Martin still isn''t good enough for a starting 11 berth. Gradel made him look like a fool for 60 minutes. Today underlined how much work K.Smith really does for him, probably doing two people''s jobs at times. I''d seriously consider getting in a loan RB.[/quote]Here speaks a person who clearly doesn''t understand the various nuances of the game of football.I''ll break it down for you - leave Gradel 1 v 1 against any full back in the league, then he wins. Similar to MacNamee against Burnley. Martin did incredibly well to keep him at bay as much as possible.You''re right that Martin was exposed. Left exposed through a lack of defensive support, which Korey normally does very well.[/quote]Exactly. All successful teams put more than one defender on tricky players & thus shunt him off into areas where he can do little damage. Even a prem. quality full back can get undone without good backup.

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It''s a good thing then that the times Gradel got past R Martin, he couldn''t hit a barndoor with a banjo. Never seen a player with so much threat and so little end product.

Oh wait...Lee Croft.

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All this really shows is how poorly Macca played yesterday. We all know he doesn''t cover back and help out the full back but hope that he makes up with it with his attacking play. Yesterday he did neither.

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Bloody Hell. Have any of you lot ever played football?

Martin''s no good, Macca is useless, Ward had a mare.

I''ll tell you something. That was a great game of football played in a great spirit.

Defenders make tackles good and bad. Forwards take on defenders sometimes with great success and excitement other times badly with great frustration for all. What you get with Lambo''s side are a team with great character, laced with skill and effort.

I wouldn''t criticise any of our team and subs who played yesterday. I just thank the good lord we have a fantastic manager, coaching staff, chairman and chief exec. Even Delia has kept quiet in the last few weeks. A bonus indeed.

Now off to the pub!

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[quote user="Jacko"]Think yesterday showed that Russell Martin still isn''t good enough for a starting 11 berth. Gradel made him look like a fool for 60 minutes. Today underlined how much work K.Smith really does for him, probably doing two people''s jobs at times. I''d seriously consider getting in a loan RB.[/quote]

Have you been smoking those extra long filterless roll your own "cigarettes" ?

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I have to agree with the original poster on this one - Russell Martin is a very weak link in our defense and in my view one of the main reasons we concede so many goals. With Drury out both our full backs are weak leaving the 2 centre backs with a heck of a lot to do - good job Barnett and Ward are playing so well.For those of you who think Martin is a good defender (and i''m not saying he is a bad one just not championship standard) - next time you go to a match watch how many tackles or clearing headers he makes, and more importantly how many crosses he stops coming into the box. I think you will be shocked - I''m sorry but he might as well not be there most of the time. Agreed Gradel is a very tricky player and Mcnamee provides no support what ever when he plays in front of him - but it wasn''t just his performance yesterday that has me concerned he is like this every week and opposing teams look to exploit him.I think a number of you have got carried away with his attacking play over the past few weeks, which I agree has been good, but primarily he is played to defend and he just isn''t up to scratch. Lambert stated earlier in the season we got 8 of the 9 players we were after in the summer - I firmly believe the 9th (especially after Spillane was sold) was the Coventry right back we were linked with and I fully expect that Lambert will look to get a first choice replacement in that position in January if not then definately in the summer.

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Clearly Martin took a roasting yesterday that was plain for all to see. The issues is as has been pointed out Korey Smith would double up with him to snuff the winger out MacNamee failed to do this yesterday and with his passing being really poor was the real issue and Martin unfortunately had to pick up the pieces

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I thought Martin did ok yesterday ....considering he was left two on one at times because Mac didn`t track across as quickly as Korey does. Any RB playing against Gradel in that position would be struggling at times.

 

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[quote user="Essexiled Canary"][quote user="Jacko"]Think yesterday showed that Russell Martin still isn''t good enough for a starting 11 berth. Gradel made him look like a fool for 60 minutes. Today underlined how much work K.Smith really does for him, probably doing two people''s jobs at times. I''d seriously consider getting in a loan RB.[/quote]Here speaks a person who clearly doesn''t understand the various nuances of the game of football.I''ll break it down for you - leave Gradel 1 v 1 against any full back in the league, then he wins. Similar to MacNamee against Burnley. Martin did incredibly well to keep him at bay as much as possible.You''re right that Martin was exposed. Left exposed through a lack of defensive support, which Korey normally does very well.[/quote]Completely agree with this, Gradel is a massive threat and Martin did well to keep him at bay as much as he did with very little support from Macnamee.The same would go for Lappin keeping snodgrass relatively quiet as well.

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[quote user="The Judge"]I have to agree with the original poster on this one - Russell Martin is a very weak link in our defense and in my view one of the main reasons we concede so many goals. With Drury out both our full backs are weak leaving the 2 centre backs with a heck of a lot to do - good job Barnett and Ward are playing so well.For those of you who think Martin is a good defender (and i''m not saying he is a bad one just not championship standard) - next time you go to a match watch how many tackles or clearing headers he makes, and more importantly how many crosses he stops coming into the box. I think you will be shocked - I''m sorry but he might as well not be there most of the time. Agreed Gradel is a very tricky player and Mcnamee provides no support what ever when he plays in front of him - but it wasn''t just his performance yesterday that has me concerned he is like this every week and opposing teams look to exploit him.I think a number of you have got carried away with his attacking play over the past few weeks, which I agree has been good, but primarily he is played to defend and he just isn''t up to scratch. Lambert stated earlier in the season we got 8 of the 9 players we were after in the summer - I firmly believe the 9th (especially after Spillane was sold) was the Coventry right back we were linked with and I fully expect that Lambert will look to get a first choice replacement in that position in January if not then definately in the summer. [/quote]I sit in the Jarold and week in week out Martin is right in front of me for 45 mins.The amount of slide tackles and excellent pieces of tracking he does do the bloke credit. I guess with the departure of Dobin the fans need someone to fire flack at, personally I am yet to see a target but the majority are picking R.Martin, Ward and Holt.I have come to the conclusion that a lot of people must therefore be thick and not actually play football or really understand it !

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[quote user="Nexus_Canary"]
I sit in the Jarold and week in week out Martin is right in front of me for 45 mins.
The amount of slide tackles and excellent pieces of tracking he does do the bloke credit. I guess with the departure of Dobin the fans need someone to fire flack at, personally I am yet to see a target but the majority are picking R.Martin, Ward and Holt.
I have come to the conclusion that a lot of people must therefore be thick and not actually play football or really understand it !
[/quote]

People don''t really understand football. A lot of it is pure ignorance. And of course that often gets combined with stubborness, so a player they''ve decided to dislike will never really get a fair chance.

 

People have their favourites and they just make decisions without knowing what they''re talking about.

 

Here''s one I''ve mentioned once or twice before... why is it that we love Korey Smith when all he does is run all day without ever doing much with the ball? But when Lee Croft ran his nuts off up and down the right hand side of midfield he was a "headless chicken" with no end product?

 

Another one of my favourites...why is it that Gary Doherty, who was playing very well in the Prem for Spurs before he broke his leg, is a donkey? But Elliott Ward, who was out of the picture at Coventry and has (apparently) had question marks over his fitness (not in terms of injuries) is this stylish, calm and composed centreback who we have been desperately needing for years?

 

But everyone is entitled to their opinion (unfortunately).

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Finally, somebody who understand defenders positioning etc.If you watched him, he gets sucked into the middle way to often and got torn apart by a very average Gradel. To add to this his distrobution is shocking. Just a simon lappin like hoof down the line. A very very average player who, as he season goes on, will get ripped apart more and more. Worst player in the team.Anyone who says hes been the best player or top 3 is utter garbage, i would put drury, barnet and ward ahead of him this season, and thats just the defence.

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so urdie, what makes you know so much more about defensive positioning than the rest of us?

(and the manager, who persists with playing him, when their is a perfectly good RB in the form of Finnan without a club, surely if Martin wasn''t good enough, we would have signed him?)

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What the OP and others need to understand is that if a tricky winger is left one on one with a full back, there are going to be times when the full back gets skinned. We expect our wingers to take on full backs and beat them so you can''t complain when the opposition wingers do the same. Just as Hucks and Steen Nedergaard (Nottingham Forest circa 2003) will tell you. Or more recently, Gareth Bale and Maicon. It doesn''t automatically mean the full back is rubbish. It''s a typical clueless, childish response to say so. Jesus one of use could have a go at taking on Maicon in a one on one and we''d probably beat him a couple of times in ten. What we have to do is to ensure that as a TEAM we minimise the occassions the full backs are left exposed. That''s Lambert''s job to an extent and we are incredibly lucky to have a manager who can not only spot this danger but act quickly to send out a different team in a different formation that minimises the danger. Benitez did absolutely nothing to try and stop Bale getting at Maicon in the Champion''s league game. We are truly blessed to have Lambert and i have absolutely no doubt that he will be up there with Ferguson in time as one of the great managers.

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What the OP and others completely fail to understand is that if a tricky winger is

left one on one with a full back, there are going to be times when the

full back gets skinned. We expect our wingers to take on full backs and

beat them so you can''t complain when the opposition wingers do the same.

Just as Hucks and Steen Nedergaard (Nottingham Forest circa 2003) will

tell you. Or more recently, Gareth Bale and Maicon. It doesn''t

automatically mean the full back is rubbish. It''s a typical clueless,

childish response to say so. Jesus one of use could have a go at taking

on Maicon in a one on one and we''d probably beat him a couple of times

in ten. What we have to do is to ensure that as a TEAM we

minimise the occassions the full backs are left exposed. That''s

Lambert''s job to an extent and we are incredibly lucky to have a manager

who can not only spot this danger but act quickly to send out a

different team in a different formation that minimises the danger.

Benitez did absolutely nothing to try and stop Bale getting at Maicon in

the Champion''s league game. We are truly blessed to have Lambert and i

have absolutely no doubt that he will be up there with Ferguson in time

as one of the great managers.

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I think that Martin has a lot of qualities though I do frustrated when he has a channel down the wing but stops, looks around then passes sideways.

My big complaint with him is that he rarely goes for 50:50 balls never mind those with less chance.   The best example was Reading''s second goal last week.  The ball bounces in front of the attacker who is in front of martin. Martin makes a feeble challenge, the ball is played past him and a goal results.  This is not hindsight, I was screaming at the tv as soon as Martin missed it.  Barnett or Crofts would have won the ball or at least have been so disruptive as to stop the attacker controlling it but not Mn.

He has a couple of these in every game and there were a couple on Saturday.  A more courageous or committed player would make a lot more tackles in these sitautions.

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and he is right in front of me for the other 45 mins and I stand totally by what I say.

As as for your conclusion - good we don''t all think the same thing isn''t it....as life would be boring and (as according to you) you are obviously right I''m surprised you are actually sitting in the stands and not in the dug out at some premier league club because you clearly know more about football than most ... especially thick old me...(oh and most of the people that sit around me aswell...oh and those I work with....oh and those I play football with..)

Watch this space - he will be replaced in january or the summer.

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