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a1canary

What makes Lambert such a good manager and Keane such a poor one?

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Their make up is very similar. Both highly successful midfield players, armed with a steely determination and an iron will. Few players know what it takes to win in football more than these two. So why has it gone so right for one (so far) and so wrong for the other?

For what it''s worth, i think Lambert has a built in understanding of the way players minds work and how to get them to respond on the pitch. Not only that, but he understands people''s minds generally. That means fans, board members as well as players.  A lot of this he will have picked up from O''Neill and it''s something Keane just doesn''t have. Keane expects EVERYONE around him to go along with hm, and when they don''t, he dismisses them, with predictable consequences. Lambert on the other hand, appreciates that everyone has a job to do - the board members to balance the books, the fans to support the players and pay their money, and he takes this into account. That doesn''t make him soft, it makes him a leader that others are prepared to follow because they can see what he''s doing and why.

That''s my take on it anyway. What''s yours? Why is Keane Krap?!

 

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Hmm, an interesting angle you take there Morty.  Yet does cockness automatically preclude you from managerial success?

I would suggest that, for instance Sam Allardyce, Steve Bruce (although he has improved recently) and to an extent, Lord Ferg, could also be described in the cock category. Yet their successes are not in dispute.

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[quote user="a1canary"]

Hmm, an interesting angle you take there Morty.  Yet does cockness automatically preclude you from managerial success?

I would suggest that, for instance Sam Allardyce, Steve Bruce (although he has improved recently) and to an extent, Lord Ferg, could also be described in the cock category. Yet their successes are not in dispute.

[/quote]Roy Keane is a nasty thug, ask Alf Inge Haaland.That one incident sums up the man for me.

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One has got the respect of the players, fans and everyone around him. He in turn manages to get the best out of everyone.

As Morty said the other is just a thug.

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The original post answers it''s own question in it''s presumption that a successful player makes a successful manager. The game is littered with those who thought that - from both sides of the fence. Those that tried to manage and those who thought they could.

However on the counter side is that it doesn''t mean that just because they were a successful player they could not be a successful manager. I believe Lambert''s experience in Germany helped, though it took him to see the need to learn, taking qualifications etc. I believe Keane went straight into managing Sunderland. This was and is something unheard of on the continent where those seeking to be coaches, managers etc require certain qualifications.

Keane appears not to be an easy character to get along with. He doesn''t carry old greviances lightly. It has to be wondered how many players with connections to Cork he has signed in return for what he sees as a previous bias in the Irish team towards Dublin players.

The dire financial problems at poorman road cannot be overlooked either. Despite the ludicrous claims of tens of millions spent on players the truth is far from that as Keane has prreviously said. He does not seem to have a free hand either. Over 20 players were turfed out in a cost cutting exercise this summer with virtually the rest out of contract next June. This has obliged him to patch up the squad with loanees, aged hasbeens and unproven youths. Again he has lamented the necessity of using kids who are barely paid a decent wage. Doesn''t know who will have to be sold in January to balance the books and sees his only chance of solving the goal drought with an unwanted Div 1 player - hardly smacks of the twaddle about Evans wanting to spend millions to get into the Premiership, does it ?

It can''t be an easy job stuck between the old guard represented by Sheepshanks, who hangs round like a bad smell and states that although the Evans owns the club it is still ''their'' club - and the distant Evans who is in it solely for what he can strip out.

Whether he stays after May is a moot point - it looks less and less likely. With little money, an owner that hardly speaks to him and a fanbase that still think''s it''s ''special'' I can hardly think of a worse place to stay. Problem is where next ?

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theres a simple 1 word question as to why Lambert is better - "Attitude"his attitude towards the players, the fans, the media etc is impeccable.

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Money?

Keane did much better at Sunderland, where he had more money...Not doing well now, with no money...

Lambert has worked well on a seemingly tight budget....

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Fear is not a tool which any manager should use.

Keane cannot get away from the hard man image and because he is so thick doesnt want to.

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"Just a shame he doesn''t use the right attitude towards the officials"

err, that was one incident, Keane''s behaviour is usual

you are not from suffolk by any chance, as you do not sound too bright ?

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I wouldnt get too cocky just yet. Keane got a team promoted to the Premiership, granted it didnt last but he still did it, lambert guided a team out of League one. Keane has made loads of cock ups this season and yet we find ourselves a mere 3 points behind lamberts mighty team, plus we are in a cup QF next week, im not sure i see where one is infinitely better than the other to be honest. Keane shows himself up in the media at times, I believe lambert was up on charges this week for showing himself up in another light, they are not so very different. Start crowing about Lambert when he has done something more than guide a team out of virtual non league football. 1 win in 8 isnt it ? Great form, he''s got you going in the right direction.

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It''s an interesting comparison to make now and we certainly wouldn''t swap Lambert for Keane. Would bluemike swop Keane for Lambert? If he would I doubt he''d admit it on here.

 

However, when ipswich appointed Keane this messageboard was full of people openly lauding the scums ambition and saying what a great appointment it was. I doubt the same could be said for their fans over Lamberts appointment here.

 

Respect is the key for me. I think Keane had it when he first went there but has lost it now. It''s very difficult to regain respect.

 

 

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Even making allowances of from your being from suffolk you really are incredibly dim.

To equate Lambert''s one off outburst in the player''s tunnel with Keane''s constant ranting and raving shows how limited your argument is. Try checking on how ex Sunderland and your very own former players have spoken off Keane''s ''wayward behaviour. He even hit out at you halfwits.

Compare where each club was when each manager took over. Promotion in 2 years was Keane''s promise. Not going to happen is it ?

Odd how you should squeak exitedly about still being in the League cup - given how you farmhands always previously dismissed it as a worthless cup.

Odd how you claim Div 1 is virtually non league football when it was clubs of that supposed non statndard that you struggled to over come to get this far in the ''worthless'' cup.

I win in 8, terrible isn''t it ? Unless of course that doesn''t reflect the true picture otherwise how does it place you paupers, being below us.

If it is wins then lets look at the respective figures for each manager at their present club. Lambert''s win ratio is 57% whereas 35%, So which direction would you say Keane is going ? The door marked exit, maybe ?

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"I wouldnt get too cocky just yet. Keane got a team promoted to the Premiership, granted it didnt last but he still did it, lambert guided a team out of League one. Keane has made loads of cock ups this season and yet we find ourselves a mere 3 points behind lamberts mighty team, plus we are in a cup QF next week, im not sure i see where one is infinitely better than the other to be honest. Keane shows himself up in the media at times, I believe lambert was up on charges this week for showing himself up in another light, they are not so very different. Start crowing about Lambert when he has done something more than guide a team out of virtual non league football. 1 win in 8 isnt it ? Great form, he''s got you going in the right direction."

No one on here is getting cocky but you''re not that bright if you think Keane is doing as good a job as Lambert. Keane spent an absolute fortune to get Sunderland up & they came straight down. If Lambert had had the money Keane has wasted, we''d be a lot more ahead of you. The very fact we are (above you despite Keanes resources) shows without a shadow of a doubt that Lambert is by far the better manager and yes getting out of Div One is sooooooo easy, just ask a Charlton, Leeds, Saints, Wednesday fan!

The media go to Keane because they know they can get a story, he''s a joke! Lambert was in front of the FA because he had to deal with a joke of a ref (everyone said so, media, opposition manager, even binmen....) and I''m just glad me have a manger that goes not have a go at his own fans, although I can see the thugs point... I mean I have never seen Norwich fans cheering opposition when playing against there own team.

1 win in 8? I understand you binmen would be calling for his head after 3 games but here we''re more educated & get behind our side. We are playing some really good stuff (Leeds game was fantastic, I believe the media called your game dire), we''ve lost 1 in 8 (3 in 3 for you is it not?) and we have just had our hardest month of fixtures with our biggest injury list. Before making judgements about us, check your facts or you''ll end up looking like Keane, a rambling fool that everyone laughs at.

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I''ve been very sad and looked at the stats on wikipedia in true sky sports style.

For their total careers their win and loss average percentages are remarkably similar.  However, Lambert has managed almost 80 games more than Keane so that skews it a little.

But, with Keane and Lambert having managed Ipswich and Norwich respectively for a similar number of games, Lambert comes out on top by far.  But then, shooting my own stats down in flames, each team was in different divisions for most of that time and so begins a debate about the relativity of the results gained in different divisions.  I personally believe that you can only beat what is in front of you, so that stats are comparable.

Otherwise, the only way you can truly compare them is to look at this season where both teams have been in the same division and we only need to look at the league table to see that Lambert is ahead on that one.

For anyone as sad as me, the stats are:

keane PWDLW ratioL ratio
sunderland 1004217414241
Ipsh*t 7426242435.1351432.43243
  total   averageaverage
  174   38.5675736.71622
Lambert PWDLW ratioL ratio
Livingston 32572015.62562.5
Wycombe 10844293540.7407432.40741
Colchester 431971744.1860539.53488
Norwich 7040151557.1428621.42857
  total   averageaverage
  253   39.4236638.96772

 

 

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