Huckerbys Boots - NCISA Interview

[TIL 1010 4,740]

[quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

What I don''t get, what I''ve never ever got, is why are folk so hellbent on being indepentant of the club they support.

 

 

 

[/quote]

 

---

 

Because you keep confusing independence with supportiveness. They are not the same thing. Independence from the club (with - one hopes - concomitant independence of mind) doesn''t mean such an organisation doesn''t generally support the club. It simply enables such a group to be critical when the club gets stuff wrong. And if it can''t be critical when the club gets stuff wrong then it has no purpose at all, except as a social club. And unless I have misunderstood what is happening with NCISA it aims to be more than just a social club.

 

[/quote]

Thanks for that Purple but i have a feeling your view will not be subsribed to by Nutty and he appear shortly probably with his old chestnut that people have not read his posts correctly.[;)]

[nutty nigel 7,533]

[quote user="Beauseant"][quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

What I don''t get, what I''ve never ever got, is why are folk so hellbent on being indepentant of the club they support.

 

 

 

[/quote]

 

---

 

Because you keep confusing independence with supportiveness. They are not the same thing. Independence from the club (with - one hopes - concomitant independence of mind) doesn''t mean such an organisation doesn''t generally support the club. It simply enables such a group to be critical when the club gets stuff wrong. And if it can''t be critical when the club gets stuff wrong then it has no purpose at all, except as a social club. And unless I have misunderstood what is happening with NCISA it aims to be more than just a social club.

 

[/quote]

 

Thank you PC. Even a cursory listen to the podcast should pick up the fact that I stressed that we are all committed fans of the club but that we need to be able to offer an independent voice when the interests of supporters are threatened. A supporters group run and controlled by the club would be nothing more than a PR exercise. Would such an organisation question the changes to the 16-21 prices or simply wave them through?

The example above perfectly illustrates that the immediate best interests of the club can be both detrimental to fans and have longer term repercussions for the club itself. Increased income now is good for the club, but the potential disenfranchisement of the next generation of fans is both bad for those fans in the short term and potentially detrimental to the club in the long term.

[/quote]

Well that''s strange because this view is very different to the answer that Tilly gave above. Tilly is correct in why the word Independant is in the title but his and yours and Purple''s random answer are to a point I didn''t make. Despite incurring Tilly''s wrath again I didn''t ask why Independent was in the title of the group (although it seems none of you agree why). I said I never could understand why folk were so hellbent on being independent of the club they support. This comment was made after reading our friend Cityangel''s post made minutes before :-

 

"Maybe in the future ncisa can find suitable premises and can organise their own fans forums independant of the club"

 

 

[Beauseant 0]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]

 

 

 

Well that''s strange because this view is very different to the answer that Tilly gave above. Tilly is correct in why the word Independant is in the title but his and yours and Purple''s random answer are to a point I didn''t make. Despite incurring Tilly''s wrath again I didn''t ask why Independent was in the title of the group (although it seems none of you agree why). I said I never could understand why folk were so hellbent on being independent of the club they support. This comment was made after reading our friend Cityangel''s post made minutes before :-

 

"Maybe in the future ncisa can find suitable premises and can organise their own fans forums independant of the club"

 

 

[/quote]

 

Which, when taken in context, is clearly related to my point about the club not making players available for our forums. 

[nutty nigel 7,533]

[quote user="Beauseant"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

 

 

 

Well that''s strange because this view is very different to the answer that Tilly gave above. Tilly is correct in why the word Independant is in the title but his and yours and Purple''s random answer are to a point I didn''t make. Despite incurring Tilly''s wrath again I didn''t ask why Independent was in the title of the group (although it seems none of you agree why). I said I never could understand why folk were so hellbent on being independent of the club they support. This comment was made after reading our friend Cityangel''s post made minutes before :-

 

"Maybe in the future ncisa can find suitable premises and can organise their own fans forums independant of the club"

 

 

[/quote]

 

Which, when taken in context, is clearly related to my point about the club not making players available for our forums. 

[/quote]

Indeed it is. But what course of action do you believe may have more success in them making players available. I would suggest certainly not going off in a huff and becoming more independent.

 

[Beauseant 0]

[quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="Beauseant"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

 

 

 

Well that''s strange because this view is very different to the answer that Tilly gave above. Tilly is correct in why the word Independant is in the title but his and yours and Purple''s random answer are to a point I didn''t make. Despite incurring Tilly''s wrath again I didn''t ask why Independent was in the title of the group (although it seems none of you agree why). I said I never could understand why folk were so hellbent on being independent of the club they support. This comment was made after reading our friend Cityangel''s post made minutes before :-

 

"Maybe in the future ncisa can find suitable premises and can organise their own fans forums independant of the club"

 

 

[/quote]

 

Which, when taken in context, is clearly related to my point about the club not making players available for our forums. 

[/quote]

Indeed it is. But what course of action do you believe may have more success in them making players available. I would suggest certainly not going off in a huff and becoming more independent.

 

[/quote]

 

Sorry, but this is getting a bit too surreal for me. At no point in the podcast or this thread have I said, or implied anything about going off in a huff. I''m quite happy to debate/argue facts, but I have no intention of being drawn into disagreements about things I haven''t actually said. This was a thread about a podcast about Ncisa''s future objectives, which may, or may not be of interest to some posters. I do not wish to insult people by going off at a complete tangent, so if you would like to continue this let''s do so via PM, email or Facebook as I do not want to abuse this message board by encouraging yet another rambling thread about Ncisa''s past, because that''s not what the forum''s for.

[nutty nigel 7,533]

[quote user="Beauseant"][quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="Beauseant"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

 

 

 

Well that''s strange because this view is very different to the answer that Tilly gave above. Tilly is correct in why the word Independant is in the title but his and yours and Purple''s random answer are to a point I didn''t make. Despite incurring Tilly''s wrath again I didn''t ask why Independent was in the title of the group (although it seems none of you agree why). I said I never could understand why folk were so hellbent on being independent of the club they support. This comment was made after reading our friend Cityangel''s post made minutes before :-

 

"Maybe in the future ncisa can find suitable premises and can organise their own fans forums independant of the club"

 

 

[/quote]

 

Which, when taken in context, is clearly related to my point about the club not making players available for our forums. 

[/quote]

Indeed it is. But what course of action do you believe may have more success in them making players available. I would suggest certainly not going off in a huff and becoming more independent.

 

[/quote]

 

Sorry, but this is getting a bit too surreal for me. At no point in the podcast or this thread have I said, or implied anything about going off in a huff. I''m quite happy to debate/argue facts, but I have no intention of being drawn into disagreements about things I haven''t actually said. This was a thread about a podcast about Ncisa''s future objectives, which may, or may not be of interest to some posters. I do not wish to insult people by going off at a complete tangent, so if you would like to continue this let''s do so via PM, email or Facebook as I do not want to abuse this message board by encouraging yet another rambling thread about Ncisa''s past, because that''s not what the forum''s for.

[/quote]

Well that''s quite incredible. It''s a long time since I''ve been spoken to like that. All the comments I have made on this thread have been made honestly, backed up with facts, and with best intentions. The comments made to me, in most part, have not even been factual. You and nCIsA are made for eachother Beaus. Carry on knowing best because that''s what they do best[:|]

 

[TIL 1010 4,740]

[quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="Beauseant"][quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="Beauseant"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

 

 

 

Well that''s strange because this view is very different to the answer that Tilly gave above. Tilly is correct in why the word Independant is in the title but his and yours and Purple''s random answer are to a point I didn''t make. Despite incurring Tilly''s wrath again I didn''t ask why Independent was in the title of the group (although it seems none of you agree why). I said I never could understand why folk were so hellbent on being independent of the club they support. This comment was made after reading our friend Cityangel''s post made minutes before :-

 

"Maybe in the future ncisa can find suitable premises and can organise their own fans forums independant of the club"

 

 

[/quote]

 

Which, when taken in context, is clearly related to my point about the club not making players available for our forums. 

[/quote]

Indeed it is. But what course of action do you believe may have more success in them making players available. I would suggest certainly not going off in a huff and becoming more independent.

 

[/quote]

 

Sorry, but this is getting a bit too surreal for me. At no point in the podcast or this thread have I said, or implied anything about going off in a huff. I''m quite happy to debate/argue facts, but I have no intention of being drawn into disagreements about things I haven''t actually said. This was a thread about a podcast about Ncisa''s future objectives, which may, or may not be of interest to some posters. I do not wish to insult people by going off at a complete tangent, so if you would like to continue this let''s do so via PM, email or Facebook as I do not want to abuse this message board by encouraging yet another rambling thread about Ncisa''s past, because that''s not what the forum''s for.

[/quote]

Well that''s quite incredible. It''s a long time since I''ve been spoken to like that. All the comments I have made on this thread have been made honestly, backed up with facts, and with best intentions. The comments made to me, in most part, have not even been factual. You and nCIsA are made for eachother Beaus. Carry on knowing best because that''s what they do best[:|]

 

[/quote]

Nutty old boy the reason that players are not permitted at forums anymore is bugger all to do with NCISA going off in a huff as you so provocatively stated.

The reason is simple and i will put it in capital letters for you so that even you cannot put your own distorted slant on it.PAUL LAMBERT DURING THE COURSE OF A FOOTBALL SEASON DOES NOT PERMIT HIS PLAYERS TO ATTEND SUPPORTERS GROUPS FORUMS IN THE EVENINGS AS HE IS A DISCIPLINARIAN AND WANTS THEM TO REMAIN FOCUSED ON THE JOB IN HAND I.E. PLAYING FOOTBALL.DO YOU NOT FIND IT STRANGE THAT SINCE LAMBERT TOOK OVER PLAYERS HAVE NOT BEEN WHEELED OUT IN FRONT OF THE PRESS ON A WEEKLY BASIS TO GIVE INTERVIEWS AS WAS THE CASE UNDER GUNN,ROEDER AND DARE I EVEN MENTION HIS NAME GRANT.

Do you get the message now that no players at evening forums is not exclusive to just NCISA.I suggest you ring up Chris Lakey if you want confirmation that Lambert does not allow easy access to his players.

Only last night there was a golden opportunity to include players at a fans forum which was i hasten to add organised by the Club itself but hey no players were on the panel.Maybe you could tell me if any players have been involved in the Club podcasts that have taken place since Lambert has been in charge...the answer is no.

Now even you can see a theme developing here which sweeps right through everything and that is Lambert will not allow it.

[Pete Raven 276]

[quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="Beauseant"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

 

 

 

Well that''s strange because this view is very different to the answer that Tilly gave above. Tilly is correct in why the word Independant is in the title but his and yours and Purple''s random answer are to a point I didn''t make. Despite incurring Tilly''s wrath again I didn''t ask why Independent was in the title of the group (although it seems none of you agree why). I said I never could understand why folk were so hellbent on being independent of the club they support. This comment was made after reading our friend Cityangel''s post made minutes before :-

 

"Maybe in the future ncisa can find suitable premises and can organise their own fans forums independant of the club"

 

 

[/quote]

 

Which, when taken in context, is clearly related to my point about the club not making players available for our forums. 

[/quote]

Indeed it is. But what course of action do you believe may have more success in them making players available. I would suggest certainly not going off in a huff and becoming more independent.

 

[/quote]When it gets a bit chilly in hell....

[TIL 1010 4,740]

Two points for you Nutty and a couple of nice straightforward replies would be good.

You suggest that NCISA seek other premises to hold forums so should i get The Butler to ring you regarding the availability of Bayer Social Club? Maybe it is only available for PUPs meetings and you might get in a huff to have NCISA members on your doorstep[:P][;)]

Secondly what is all that nonsense that we cannot agree why Indepenedent is in the NCISA title? I gave you chapter and verse as i was present at the meeting with Chase and Nicholls.Maybe you would like sworn statements from Roy and Mike if you do not agree with my version.

[TIL 1010 4,740]

[quote user="Sports Desk Pete"][quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="Beauseant"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

 

 

 

Well that''s strange because this view is very different to the answer that Tilly gave above. Tilly is correct in why the word Independant is in the title but his and yours and Purple''s random answer are to a point I didn''t make. Despite incurring Tilly''s wrath again I didn''t ask why Independent was in the title of the group (although it seems none of you agree why). I said I never could understand why folk were so hellbent on being independent of the club they support. This comment was made after reading our friend Cityangel''s post made minutes before :-

 

"Maybe in the future ncisa can find suitable premises and can organise their own fans forums independant of the club"

 

 

[/quote]

 

Which, when taken in context, is clearly related to my point about the club not making players available for our forums. 

[/quote]

Indeed it is. But what course of action do you believe may have more success in them making players available. I would suggest certainly not going off in a huff and becoming more independent.

 

[/quote]

When it gets a bit chilly in hell....
[/quote]

Thankyou Pete but we are fighting a losing battle i am afraid to say with Mr There Is Only My Distorted Perspective Edwards and his mission to have the last word.

[nutty nigel 7,533]

[quote user="TIL 1010"]

Two points for you Nutty and a couple of nice straightforward replies would be good.

You suggest that NCISA seek other premises to hold forums so should i get The Butler to ring you regarding the availability of Bayer Social Club? Maybe it is only available for PUPs meetings and you might get in a huff to have NCISA members on your doorstep[:P][;)]

Secondly what is all that nonsense that we cannot agree why Indepenedent is in the NCISA title? I gave you chapter and verse as i was present at the meeting with Chase and Nicholls.Maybe you would like sworn statements from Roy and Mike if you do not agree with my version.

[/quote]

Q1 - Well I know I am not a very good communicator on here. My friend Yankee has often told me that I do not write my posts in a way that makes my point clearly. But even given those short comings I can''t possibly see where anyone could gain the impression that I suggested NCISA should seek other premises to hold forums. However if you still instruct The Butler on how to be Chairman of nCIsA then you can get him to give me a ring if you like. I always do my best to help NCISA when I can as I have with you in the past when you picked up that phone. But this no way compromises my opinions on different matters.

 

Q2 - I told you that I agreed with you about your chapter and verse but this wasn''t the same chapter and verse that Purple and Beaus quoted. But then they were probably extolling the virtues of NCISA''s independence rather than the word in their title.

 

As an aside to all of this, were you a member of Stan Springall''s Club Tilly? Beaus(if your as old as us)? Purple? I remember having a cloth badge which I proudly had sewn on my jacket.

 

As for the players being unavailable - well that''s the price you pay for the changes that were made during the summer. Community Club was all very well but the only way this club is likely to compete at the top of the Championship is by putting all their resources towards that aim. Smith & Jones are not rich enough to be able to subsidise our entertainment in the way they could a few years ago. I don''t paticularly miss player forums and the like. But I do miss reserve team football and those evening games under lights where so many of  our younger fans first got a tatse of Carrow Road. I guess like 16-21 ticket prices it''s something that goes with the changes. However, if I was to choose one change which may have a detrimental effect to future generations support it would be the end of those family football reserve evenings. It''s all very well campaigning about 16-21 tickets but by the time kids are 16 they are either a fan or not. With no reserve team if the club staged 3/4 friendly fixtures during the season on a Tuesday evening where the kids could attend for free or a nominal fee they would probably even make money. I remember a few years ago 7,000 turned out for a reserve team friendly against Arsenal.

 

 

[BlyBlyBabes 0]

Maybe the doubters can see now why it is so important that the all-seeing couple The World and his Wife are always around.

Particularly those who like to weigh in on the end of arguments and often make their ill-judged interventions after get the wrong end of the stick.

OTBC

[TIL 1010 4,740]

[quote user="BlyBlyBabes"]

Maybe the doubters can see now why it is so important that the all-seeing couple The World and his Wife are always around.

Particularly those who like to weigh in on the end of arguments and often make their ill-judged interventions after get the wrong end of the stick.

OTBC

[/quote]

I have misplaced my Bly to English translation book.Cannot anybody out there help?

Standby for the policeperson,plod,do keep up,one love piffle that will now be posted as sure as night follows day.

[TIL 1010 4,740]

[quote user="BlyBlyBabes"]

Maybe the doubters can see now why it is so important that the all-seeing couple The World and his Wife are always around.

Particularly those who like to weigh in on the end of arguments and often make their ill-judged interventions after get the wrong end of the stick.

OTBC

[/quote]

Are the doubters involved with the inner circle or the silent majority?[;)]

[BlyBlyBabes 0]

[quote user="TIL 1010"][quote user="BlyBlyBabes"]

Maybe the doubters can see now why it is so important that the all-seeing couple The World and his Wife are always around.

Particularly those who like to weigh in on the end of arguments and often make their ill-judged interventions after get the wrong end of the stick.

OTBC

[/quote]

Are the doubters involved with the inner circle or the silent majority?[;)]

[/quote]

Seems you found your ''translation book''.

Good. You''ll be able to keep up better now I hope.

[:)]

One love.

OTBC

[lappinitup 629]

[quote user="Beauseant"]Even a cursory listen to the podcast should pick up the fact that I stressed that we are all committed fans of the club but that we need to be able to offer an independent voice when the interests of supporters are threatened. A supporters group run and controlled by the club would be nothing more than a PR exercise. Would such an organisation question the changes to the 16-21 prices or simply wave them through?[/quote]Maybe a survey amongst this group will discover the hardships they are suffering, You can normally find a few of them around on Riverside and Prince of Wales Rd on a Friday and Saturday night. [:P]

[. 0]

If there had been a worthwhile ''independent'' voice a few years back... the hapless Worthington would not have been so shamefully hung out to dry... the emphasis inbstead being on public dissent for the Board and televised humiliation for the celebrity destroying the whole ethos of the club.Until such a group has teeth provided by the ordinary fan... is not in bed with the club''s PR department... takes no benefit from their elevated status... and has the bottle to ''upset the apple cart'' when required,  it will remain little more than a joke.

[PurpleCanary 5,558]

[quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="Beauseant"][quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

What I don''t get, what I''ve never ever got, is why are folk so hellbent on being indepentant of the club they support.

 

 

 

[/quote]

 

---

 

Because you keep confusing independence with supportiveness. They are not the same thing. Independence from the club (with - one hopes - concomitant independence of mind) doesn''t mean such an organisation doesn''t generally support the club. It simply enables such a group to be critical when the club gets stuff wrong. And if it can''t be critical when the club gets stuff wrong then it has no purpose at all, except as a social club. And unless I have misunderstood what is happening with NCISA it aims to be more than just a social club.

 

[/quote]

 

Thank you PC. Even a cursory listen to the podcast should pick up the fact that I stressed that we are all committed fans of the club but that we need to be able to offer an independent voice when the interests of supporters are threatened. A supporters group run and controlled by the club would be nothing more than a PR exercise. Would such an organisation question the changes to the 16-21 prices or simply wave them through?

The example above perfectly illustrates that the immediate best interests of the club can be both detrimental to fans and have longer term repercussions for the club itself. Increased income now is good for the club, but the potential disenfranchisement of the next generation of fans is both bad for those fans in the short term and potentially detrimental to the club in the long term.

[/quote]

Well that''s strange because this view is very different to the answer that Tilly gave above. Tilly is correct in why the word Independant is in the title but his and yours and Purple''s random answer are to a point I didn''t make. Despite incurring Tilly''s wrath again I didn''t ask why Independent was in the title of the group (although it seems none of you agree why). I said I never could understand why folk were so hellbent on being independent of the club they support.

 

 

[/quote]

---

I''m sorry, Nutty. That is simply not true. Mine was not a random answer to a point you didn''t make. It was a precise answer to the question, as I quoted directly, you keep asking.

But, in another example of hope triumphing over experience, I will try one last time. The answer is that unless a group such as NCISA is independent of the club (and is seen to be independent) then it can''t act as a pressure group. And, whether you like it or not, that is one of the roles NCISA has chosen for itself. I understand you might think that is a mistake on NCISA''s part. That is totally irrelevant.

Why is NCISA "hellbent", to use your emotive word, on being independent of the club? Because it has to be. If you still doubt that, ask yourself what credibility any kind of supporters'' group would have when it came to acting as a pressure group if was dependent on the club. Indeed if it was, as McNally wants, the creation of the club. Because that is the alternative. The answer, of course, is zilch.

 

[nutty nigel 7,533]

[quote user="PurpleCanary"]

I''m sorry, Nutty. That is simply not true. Mine was not a random answer to a point you didn''t make. It was a precise answer to the question, as I quoted directly, you keep asking.

But, in another example of hope triumphing over experience, I will try one last time. The answer is that unless a group such as NCISA is independent of the club (and is seen to be independent) then it can''t act as a pressure group. And, whether you like it or not, that is one of the roles NCISA has chosen for itself. I understand you might think that is a mistake on NCISA''s part. That is totally irrelevant.

Why is NCISA "hellbent", to use your emotive word, on being independent of the club? Because it has to be. If you still doubt that, ask yourself what credibility any kind of supporters'' group would have when it came to acting as a pressure group if was dependent on the club. Indeed if it was, as McNally wants, the creation of the club. Because that is the alternative. The answer, of course, is zilch.

 

[/quote]

If this pressure group have to be independent of the club then why would they want nice cosy forums with the same club''s players? The only time we see people hellbent on being independent of the club is when they disagree with something the club does. When they are happy they want just to be ordinary supporters again and expect to be treated as such. It''s like my dear old nan''s weather house!

 

Imagine you are running your business and an organisation starts up trying to get your customers to join up to criticise the decisions you make. Your business will live or die by the way you treat your customers. That''s your responsibility. But you are also expected to welcome this group with open arms.

 

Imagine you own your business. You have invested your fortune in it. You have 12 years experience in that business and are respected by your competitors. This organisation starts up and a bunch of butchers, bakers and candlestick makers tell you that you are the well-meaning amateur. But then say it would be nice if you could perhaps provide a rtoom for their meeting and attend it??

 

Pressure group or supporters club. Choose your weapon!

 

 

[ca 1]

Lets have a sweepstake as to how many pages this will get to.

I''ll go for 10. [:$]

[. 0]

[quote user="cityangel"]

Lets have a sweepstake as to how many pages this will get to.

I''ll go for 10. [:$]

[/quote]I''m being as obtuse as I can..... [:)]12

[Duncan Edwards 0]

I reckon this one could run and run. I suppose it depends on whether people are willing to have a debate or would rather have a hissy fit and "take their ball home". I''d personally like to see it continue openly, I think it''s healthy for ncisa to interact with non members and clarify things, however trivial, especially in their quest for increased membership.