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canaryfan68

Strikers and Going forwards

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I have to say having seen the performance today at Cardiff, it was a great effort especially first half.

The glaring problem today was our in ability to test their keeper, we tried to walk the ball into their box/goal. Cardiff gave us a lesson in finishing today which we should learn from.

In the first half, we had a period where we battered them but there wasn''t very much of a final product. Our crossing was abysmal and our reluctance to shoot was so noticeable. Certain players look uncomfortable in shooting at goal or taking on the responsibilty either. This needs to be looked at because todayin the second half we looked like a toothless bulldog, we never tested their keeper at all when we should have been peppering his goal looking for a second.

Lastly, we need address the striking options. We had Johnson & Mcnamee come off the bench where they had Koumas and Mcphail. That sums up our strike force, in January we need someone else to join the front line with an eye for goal.

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By all accounts we would have won that game today if we had Chopra and Boothroyd up front, difference is we have a couple of league 1 strikers trying to make the step up whereas they have a premier league quality strike force that will most likely see them go up as champions. As well as we have done this season we do lack quality up front and sadly that will not be addressed any time soon due to lack of cash.

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[quote user="kdncfc"]By all accounts we would have won that game today if we had Chopra and Boothroyd up front, difference is we have a couple of league 1 strikers trying to make the step up whereas they have a premier league quality strike force that will most likely see them go up as champions. As well as we have done this season we do lack quality up front and sadly that will not be addressed any time soon due to lack of cash.
[/quote]

I cannot quite agree with this kdnc as I think our frontline options are quite strong at the moment. You are comparing us with Cardiff who have now spent a small fortune to become a  Premiership side in the waiting. Compare us with the rest of the League, including ITFC, and I consider us to be on a par at the very least with them all. I do agree that it is debateable about the current "level" of our strikers, but few in the Championship are any better on their day.

The enigma for me is  Chris Martin. One day his play is Premiership level, and on another he is deservedly warming the bench. This season will possibly decide whether he stays or goes up or down. Unpredictable  .... for an unpredictable player and individual. I think, eventually down a level unfortunately.

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Well I''m still worried about our strike force and thaey are the only positions that do worry me.

We''ve played 14 games now and have Holt on 3 goals, Jackson on 4 goals, Martin on 1 goal

I know we have other players who can put the ball in the net but any team challenging for play off places must have a 20 goal a season striker and a formidable pair upfront.

I understand that Holt and Martin did great in League 1 for us and we will be eternally gratefull but the Championship is a different level and a whole new ball game and I still think if we can find the money we need to bring in just one proven championship goal scorer.

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[quote user="kdncfc"]By all accounts we would have won that game today if we had Chopra and Boothroyd up front, difference is we have a couple of league 1 strikers trying to make the step up whereas they have a premier league quality strike force that will most likely see them go up as champions. As well as we have done this season we do lack quality up front and sadly that will not be addressed any time soon due to lack of cash.
[/quote]

This age old Norwich problem will probably never go away. Quality goalscorers cost a fortune and as Worthy found out to his cost in 2006 Norwich can''t afford to pay the going rate. Back then Worthy wanted Hulse or Howard but those in charge of the finances, even though we had parachute payments, would not come close to paying the price. Back in 2003 Worthy wanted Alan Lee but those in charge of the finances, so Ronnie Moore tells us, only offered enough money to buy his left foot. Way back in the late 80''s probably our best ever side were one quality goalscorer away from winning the double but it was the same old story, we wouldn''t pay the going rate. So Norwich managers have to make do with trying to make a silk purse out of a sows ear from the lower divisions or be resourceful like Worthy was and find a Dion Dublin.

We did buy Dean Ashton but even then 4 months too late. Is that the only time we have paid big money for a quality striker?

 

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[quote user="nutty nigel"]

[quote user="kdncfc"]By all accounts we would have won that game today if we had Chopra and Boothroyd up front, difference is we have a couple of league 1 strikers trying to make the step up whereas they have a premier league quality strike force that will most likely see them go up as champions. As well as we have done this season we do lack quality up front and sadly that will not be addressed any time soon due to lack of cash.[/quote]

This age old Norwich problem will probably never go away. Quality goalscorers cost a fortune and as Worthy found out to his cost in 2006 Norwich can''t afford to pay the going rate. Back then Worthy wanted Hulse or Howard but those in charge of the finances, even though we had parachute payments, would not come close to paying the price. Back in 2003 Worthy wanted Alan Lee but those in charge of the finances, so Ronnie Moore tells us, only offered enough money to buy his left foot. Way back in the late 80''s probably our best ever side were one quality goalscorer away from winning the double but it was the same old story, we wouldn''t pay the going rate. So Norwich managers have to make do with trying to make a silk purse out of a sows ear from the lower divisions or be resourceful like Worthy was and find a Dion Dublin.

We did buy Dean Ashton but even then 4 months too late. Is that the only time we have paid big money for a quality striker?

 

[/quote]We paid 900k for Darren Beckford and 600k for Fleck back in the late 80''s which was a lot of money in them days, mind you the less said about Darren Beckford the better. I remember going to Vale Park when we beat them 3-1 in the cup in 1989 and Beckford looked a right handful that day but he was woeful for us.Unless we get taken over or find substantial investment I don''t see us getting stikers anywhere near the calibre Cardiff had yesterday so we are unlikely to find much better than we have at the moment unless it''s a loan and I don''t think we want to go there again.

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[quote user="kdncfc"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

[quote user="kdncfc"]By all accounts we would have won that game today if we had Chopra and Boothroyd up front, difference is we have a couple of league 1 strikers trying to make the step up whereas they have a premier league quality strike force that will most likely see them go up as champions. As well as we have done this season we do lack quality up front and sadly that will not be addressed any time soon due to lack of cash.
[/quote]

This age old Norwich problem will probably never go away. Quality goalscorers cost a fortune and as Worthy found out to his cost in 2006 Norwich can''t afford to pay the going rate. Back then Worthy wanted Hulse or Howard but those in charge of the finances, even though we had parachute payments, would not come close to paying the price. Back in 2003 Worthy wanted Alan Lee but those in charge of the finances, so Ronnie Moore tells us, only offered enough money to buy his left foot. Way back in the late 80''s probably our best ever side were one quality goalscorer away from winning the double but it was the same old story, we wouldn''t pay the going rate. So Norwich managers have to make do with trying to make a silk purse out of a sows ear from the lower divisions or be resourceful like Worthy was and find a Dion Dublin.

We did buy Dean Ashton but even then 4 months too late. Is that the only time we have paid big money for a quality striker?

 

[/quote]
We paid 900k for Darren Beckford and 600k for Fleck back in the late 80''s which was a lot of money in them days, mind you the less said about Darren Beckford the better. I remember going to Vale Park when we beat them 3-1 in the cup in 1989 and Beckford looked a right handful that day but he was woeful for us.
Unless we get taken over or find substantial investment I don''t see us getting stikers anywhere near the calibre Cardiff had yesterday so we are unlikely to find much better than we have at the moment unless it''s a loan and I don''t think we want to go there again.
[/quote]

Agreed about Beckford but it was still a punt from a lower division as was Ekoku. We never pay the going rate for proven goalscorers from the level we are playing at. I guess we can''t afford to whoever controls the purse strings.

 

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[quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="kdncfc"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

[quote user="kdncfc"]By all accounts we would have won that game today if we had Chopra and Boothroyd up front, difference is we have a couple of league 1 strikers trying to make the step up whereas they have a premier league quality strike force that will most likely see them go up as champions. As well as we have done this season we do lack quality up front and sadly that will not be addressed any time soon due to lack of cash.[/quote]

This age old Norwich problem will probably never go away. Quality goalscorers cost a fortune and as Worthy found out to his cost in 2006 Norwich can''t afford to pay the going rate. Back then Worthy wanted Hulse or Howard but those in charge of the finances, even though we had parachute payments, would not come close to paying the price. Back in 2003 Worthy wanted Alan Lee but those in charge of the finances, so Ronnie Moore tells us, only offered enough money to buy his left foot. Way back in the late 80''s probably our best ever side were one quality goalscorer away from winning the double but it was the same old story, we wouldn''t pay the going rate. So Norwich managers have to make do with trying to make a silk purse out of a sows ear from the lower divisions or be resourceful like Worthy was and find a Dion Dublin.

We did buy Dean Ashton but even then 4 months too late. Is that the only time we have paid big money for a quality striker?

 

[/quote]We paid 900k for Darren Beckford and 600k for Fleck back in the late 80''s which was a lot of money in them days, mind you the less said about Darren Beckford the better. I remember going to Vale Park when we beat them 3-1 in the cup in 1989 and Beckford looked a right handful that day but he was woeful for us.Unless we get taken over or find substantial investment I don''t see us getting stikers anywhere near the calibre Cardiff had yesterday so we are unlikely to find much better than we have at the moment unless it''s a loan and I don''t think we want to go there again.[/quote]

Agreed about Beckford but it was still a punt from a lower division as was Ekoku. We never pay the going rate for proven goalscorers from the level we are playing at. I guess we can''t afford to whoever controls the purse strings.

 

[/quote]The 900k we paid for Beckford was equivalent to us paying 3 million nowadays though Nutty, I''m pretty sure that if we had spent 3 million on a striker in the summer we''d have enough quality up front to compete with the Cardiffs of this world.

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[quote user="kdncfc"][quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="kdncfc"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

[quote user="kdncfc"]By all accounts we would have won that game today if we had Chopra and Boothroyd up front, difference is we have a couple of league 1 strikers trying to make the step up whereas they have a premier league quality strike force that will most likely see them go up as champions. As well as we have done this season we do lack quality up front and sadly that will not be addressed any time soon due to lack of cash.
[/quote]

This age old Norwich problem will probably never go away. Quality goalscorers cost a fortune and as Worthy found out to his cost in 2006 Norwich can''t afford to pay the going rate. Back then Worthy wanted Hulse or Howard but those in charge of the finances, even though we had parachute payments, would not come close to paying the price. Back in 2003 Worthy wanted Alan Lee but those in charge of the finances, so Ronnie Moore tells us, only offered enough money to buy his left foot. Way back in the late 80''s probably our best ever side were one quality goalscorer away from winning the double but it was the same old story, we wouldn''t pay the going rate. So Norwich managers have to make do with trying to make a silk purse out of a sows ear from the lower divisions or be resourceful like Worthy was and find a Dion Dublin.

We did buy Dean Ashton but even then 4 months too late. Is that the only time we have paid big money for a quality striker?


 

[/quote]
We paid 900k for Darren Beckford and 600k for Fleck back in the late 80''s which was a lot of money in them days, mind you the less said about Darren Beckford the better. I remember going to Vale Park when we beat them 3-1 in the cup in 1989 and Beckford looked a right handful that day but he was woeful for us.
Unless we get taken over or find substantial investment I don''t see us getting stikers anywhere near the calibre Cardiff had yesterday so we are unlikely to find much better than we have at the moment unless it''s a loan and I don''t think we want to go there again.
[/quote]

Agreed about Beckford but it was still a punt from a lower division as was Ekoku. We never pay the going rate for proven goalscorers from the level we are playing at. I guess we can''t afford to whoever controls the purse strings.

 

[/quote]
The 900k we paid for Beckford was equivalent to us paying 3 million nowadays though Nutty, I''m pretty sure that if we had spent 3 million on a striker in the summer we''d have enough quality up front to compete with the Cardiffs of this world.
[/quote]

Even if it was Beckford? We''d have to pay them the going rate too don''t forget. Someone who''s good at sums could perhaps tell us the whole cost of a 3m striker. The thing with taking a punt on those unproven at the level is their contracts are more affordable. But I don''t see it ever changing for us. We sell quality strikers and buy cheap replacements and hope. Always have and always will.

 

 

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The real irritation with Beckford was that we were planning to buy both him and Robbie Earle.  As it is, we got "Barren Dickford" and Wimbledon got one of the best midfield enforcers for years.

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[quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="kdncfc"][quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="kdncfc"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

[quote user="kdncfc"]By all accounts we would have won that game today if we had Chopra and Boothroyd up front, difference is we have a couple of league 1 strikers trying to make the step up whereas they have a premier league quality strike force that will most likely see them go up as champions. As well as we have done this season we do lack quality up front and sadly that will not be addressed any time soon due to lack of cash.[/quote]

This age old Norwich problem will probably never go away. Quality goalscorers cost a fortune and as Worthy found out to his cost in 2006 Norwich can''t afford to pay the going rate. Back then Worthy wanted Hulse or Howard but those in charge of the finances, even though we had parachute payments, would not come close to paying the price. Back in 2003 Worthy wanted Alan Lee but those in charge of the finances, so Ronnie Moore tells us, only offered enough money to buy his left foot. Way back in the late 80''s probably our best ever side were one quality goalscorer away from winning the double but it was the same old story, we wouldn''t pay the going rate. So Norwich managers have to make do with trying to make a silk purse out of a sows ear from the lower divisions or be resourceful like Worthy was and find a Dion Dublin.

We did buy Dean Ashton but even then 4 months too late. Is that the only time we have paid big money for a quality striker?

 

[/quote]We paid 900k for Darren Beckford and 600k for Fleck back in the late 80''s which was a lot of money in them days, mind you the less said about Darren Beckford the better. I remember going to Vale Park when we beat them 3-1 in the cup in 1989 and Beckford looked a right handful that day but he was woeful for us.Unless we get taken over or find substantial investment I don''t see us getting stikers anywhere near the calibre Cardiff had yesterday so we are unlikely to find much better than we have at the moment unless it''s a loan and I don''t think we want to go there again.[/quote]

Agreed about Beckford but it was still a punt from a lower division as was Ekoku. We never pay the going rate for proven goalscorers from the level we are playing at. I guess we can''t afford to whoever controls the purse strings.

 

[/quote]The 900k we paid for Beckford was equivalent to us paying 3 million nowadays though Nutty, I''m pretty sure that if we had spent 3 million on a striker in the summer we''d have enough quality up front to compete with the Cardiffs of this world.[/quote]

Even if it was Beckford? We''d have to pay them the going rate too don''t forget. Someone who''s good at sums could perhaps tell us the whole cost of a 3m striker. The thing with taking a punt on those unproven at the level is their contracts are more affordable. But I don''t see it ever changing for us. We sell quality strikers and buy cheap replacements and hope. Always have and always will.

 

 

[/quote]The only way it will change is if we get taken over by a billionaire or get promoted to the prem and stay there for a few seasons. We haven''t had a spell in the prem since the amount of money involved became obscene so it''s hard to know whether we''d spend serious sums on players, can''t say I''d be confident of the current owners spending any more than they had to even if we did get there though so maybe you''re right in saying it will never change.

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[quote user="Mister Chops"]The real irritation with Beckford was that we were planning to buy both him and Robbie Earle.  As it is, we got "Barren Dickford" and Wimbledon got one of the best midfield enforcers for years.[/quote] Earle turned us down and signed for Wimbledon because he thought they were more ambitious if my memory serves me correct.

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[quote user="kdncfc"][quote user="Mister Chops"]The real irritation with Beckford was that we were planning to buy both him and Robbie Earle.  As it is, we got "Barren Dickford" and Wimbledon got one of the best midfield enforcers for years.

[/quote]
 Earle turned us down and signed for Wimbledon because he thought they were more ambitious if my memory serves me correct.
[/quote]

 

--

 

Oh come on, people! Anyone who can put three past an increasing disgruntled Mr Grumpy[:@] (Neville Southall) can''t be all bad. My memory of us missing out on Earle was that we were very keen, but he turned us down.[:$]

 

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[quote user="Thirsty Lizard"]Nutty - In reply to your question about when we have paid big money for a quality striker - we also shelled out £3 million for Earnshaw don''t forget.[/quote]To be fair that was a pretty easy thing to do having trousered £7 million for Dean Ashton.....The discussion about Darren Beckford is interesting. From recollection he had scored 20 goals for the previous three seasons for Port Vale, albeit in a lower division, but I would think £900,000 was a reasonable gamble for Dave Stringer to take.I do think we missed out with Robbie Earle but there''s not a lot you can do if he chooses another club. A strange choice for him to make perhaps but he did pretty well in the years he was at Wimbledon.

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I have to say having seen the performance today at Cardiff, it was a great effort especially first half. The glaring problem today was our in ability to test their keeper, we tried to walk the ball into their box/goal. Cardiff gave us a lesson in finishing today which we should learn from. In the first half, we had a period where we battered them but there wasn''t very much of a final product. Our crossing was abysmal and our reluctance to shoot was so noticeable. Certain players look uncomfortable in shooting at goal or taking on the responsibilty either. This needs to be looked at because todayin the second half we looked like a toothless bulldog, we never tested their keeper at all when we should have been peppering his goal looking for a second. Lastly, we need address the striking options. We had Johnson & Mcnamee come off the bench where they had Koumas and Mcphail. That sums up our strike force, in January we need someone else to join the front line with an eye for goal.

 

Couldn''t agree more!

 

Many fans were bemoaning Grant Holt yesterday and why he never seems to get subbed but the reason for that is cause hes the only targetman, real physical presence we have up front. Jackson was unlucky to go off cause I thought his pace gave Cardif plenty to worry about which is why hes more of a threat than Chris Martin who also can''t do the Holt targetman role.

 

Martin is very average at this level, Holts doing a job but is not as dominant as he was in League 1, Johnsons probably not good enough which indicates we need a big strong targetman type of Championship quality to give Holt some real competition in orde to stay in the top end of the table!

 

We also have to stop trying to score the perfect goal. Most goals in football are scored in the box when the ball is put in there which causes the defence problems which leads to goalscoring opportunities. Norwich don''t do this enough as they don''t cross quick enough and don''t pull the trigger enough Although reality check - we''re in 5th so we''ve done more than OK and could of done much worse    

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We do probably look to be one quality striker short of what we need, I''ve thought that since the summer.

We''ve really only got 3 to pick from at the moment. Neither Holt nor Martin have played well enough this season. I can understand the manager sticking with Holt because he is his captain and he was great for us last season. He also does a bit more for the team than Martin does. We can say all he want about Chrissy being a clever player, always making clever runs and having good technique etc etc but he''s playing against far better defences this season and so far he hasn''t really done enough to worry any of them. Holt still doesn''t look as sharp as he should and, in my opinion, he spends a little bit too much time being a drama queen and playing to the crowd.

Jackson looks like a goalscorer, if we get the ball to him in the right areas. He''s not going to stick them all away but he looks like our best bet for goals at the moment because of the kind of player he is and his turn of pace.

And as much as I think Johnson is a nifty little player I just can''t see him cutting it at this level at the moment. He only really showed glimpses in League and I think it''s too much of an ask for him to be the kind of player we need this season. So, for that reason, I don''t really count him as a serious contender.

Who do you get though? Goalscorers cost money and plenty of other clubs will be battling to sign the quality players out there.

Having said all that, is there anyone who wouldn''t have taken where we are now at the start of the season?

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Cardiff probably have three or four goal scorers better than ours.

I have said for some time that we have no-one in the side, never mind the strikers, who can trouble the goalkeeper from 20 yards while under pressure. Jackson can run into the penalty area and blast it, Martin can place it, and Holt occasionally keeps it down, but...

I''m crying for the moon, I kinow, but if we are really going to progress we need a striker to whom you can give the ball 25 yards out, who can make space and then hit a thunderbolt into the top corner. Of course it helps if he is also tall, quick and good with his head.

Many teams have midfielders who can hit the ball well, but we seem to lack one who can do this consistently. (Cardiff even had Koumas on the bench!)

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[quote user="Salopian"]Cardiff probably have three or four goal scorers better than ours. I have said for some time that we have no-one in the side, never mind the strikers, who can trouble the goalkeeper from 20 yards while under pressure. Jackson can run into the penalty area and blast it, Martin can place it, and Holt occasionally keeps it down, but... I''m crying for the moon, I kinow, but if we are really going to progress we need a striker to whom you can give the ball 25 yards out, who can make space and then hit a thunderbolt into the top corner. Of course it helps if he is also tall, quick and good with his head. Many teams have midfielders who can hit the ball well, but we seem to lack one who can do this consistently. (Cardiff even had Koumas on the bench!)[/quote]

Hurrah, someone who thinks like me [:)]

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Nobody denies we could do with a £5 million striker who can score goals, make goals, terrify defences with his pace, skill, aerial presence and who can hold the ball up.But we''re skint.  So buy the club, or deal with it.

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[quote user="kdncfc"][quote user="Mister Chops"]The real irritation with Beckford was that we were planning to buy both him and Robbie Earle.  As it is, we got "Barren Dickford" and Wimbledon got one of the best midfield enforcers for years.[/quote] Earle turned us down and signed for Wimbledon because he thought they were more ambitious if my memory serves me correct.[/quote]I hope you''re not suggesting that the employees of the Sainted Robert Chase gave the impression that our club were less ambitious than Wimbledon?

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