Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Delia Out!

Man United v Spurs last night!

Recommended Posts

I''m sure that many of you probably watched it, but I am extremely annoyed that United''s second goal was allowed to stand.

I''m sure that those who watched it are also amazed at how the goal was actually allowed to stand, and for me it is blatent cheating!

When Nani dived, he scooped the ball up in his hands and then put it down again, meaning that it should obviously be a free-kick to Tottenham. The referee waved away United''s appeals for a penalty and walked back towards the centre of the pitch, not watching what was happening.

Gomes then threw the ball out to take the free-kick and Nani stood in the way and prevented Gomes from taking it. Nani then turned around and slotted the ball into an empty net.

It is an absolute outrage [:@]

The referee turned around after Nani had put the ball in the net and consequently went over to see his linesman, who had his flag raised as a sign of an infringement.

The referee then walked over to the linesman and discussed the situation. Rio Ferdinand then barged in on the conversation and bullied the officials into giving the goal.

It is pathetic that the referee can be bullied into decisions that are quite clearly wrong and against the laws of football.

If any other team had pulled this unbelievable stunt, it wouldn''t have counted. But as it was Manchester United who commited the offence it is legal!

I hate the way that the big clubs (mostly United) get different treatment to everyone else and get their own rules, it really annoys me [:@]

Does anyone else agree with me on this matter?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
It was blatant stupidity on Tottenham''s part in not playing to the whistle as the ref never blew for an infringement and was waving play-on. If Gomes was taking what he thought was a free-kick then why was he about 10 yards ahead of the supposed hand-ball incident ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="paul moy"]It was blatant stupidity on Tottenham''s part in not playing to the whistle as the ref never blew for an infringement and was waving play-on. If Gomes was taking what he thought was a free-kick then why was he about 10 yards ahead of the supposed hand-ball incident ?[/quote]Yes it was, but I think Gomes''s stupidity happened after the initial refereeing stupidity.  The linesman then told the ref it was handball and the ref said "er, yeah, um... I played advantage." Great advantage - with their goalkeeper in their own penalty area with two attacking players in front of them.So yes, Gomes technically cocked up, but the referee got it badly badly wrong.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

OP is garbage!

If the ref stopped the game for every infringment, the game would be far too stop and start! Hence the advantage rule!

Everyone knew Nani had handballed, but its one of them where it is completly pointless to blow the whistle, stop the game and make Gomes go back to the byline and restart the game.

Considering Spurs are 1 down with 5 minutes remaining, Gomes had an advantage, instead of having to restart the ball from the floor he could run to the edge of his box and kick it out of his hands.

For some unknown reason he walked 10 yards away from where ''the freekick'' should have been taken and dropped the ball, only he knows why. Absolute clanger from Gomes in my opinion.

Referee had give Gomes a advantage, Gomes blew it!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Slight movement of the facts op

1. The referee seemed to see most of the incident, certainly the main parts as he is quite clearly indicating saying what are you doing to Gomes

2. Cant see what rule was broken. Had Ruddy caught a cross then laid the ball on the ground and someone kicked it in within the rules no difference. Other than the possible dive for the penalty I think a bit harsh to accuse Nani of cheating

3. Linesman flagged after the referee gave the goal - IMO the ref was only asking him if he saw something else Dont think Ferdinand influenced him. If a rule was broken why did he not flag when it was broken ?

4. Had Nani already been booked ? If a freekick had been given he would have had to send Nani off if he had, if Holt was sent off for that what would you think

5. The biggest question you have to ask yourself - if that goal was scored by Norwich would you be saying what you are saying about the goal

6. Why did Gomes roll the ball forward 10 yards, you could argue that was cheating if he thought it was a free kick

IMO the goal probably within the spirit of the game should have not been given, however within the rules cant see why it would be disallowed. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

slightly wrong view from your spec savers - in my opinion

1 The referee was looking at the incident -all of the time

2 He never waved or signalled with his hands/arms that he was allowing an advantage

3 He may have shouted to Gomez but -who knows

4 No advantage was gained so when Nani touched the ball he should have blown his whistle

5 The linesman fagged and gave him every chance to reconsider

6 He said he had played an advantage - but no advantage was gained

7 He was referring at Old Trafford

8 All other comments might be subject to court actions

9 Someone please give any other explanation

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
No the OP was spot on....

The referee has waved for advantage (his 2 arms rising upwards away from his body) yet clearly there is no advantage - hence why a free-kick should of been given.

There are 2 factors why this free-kick wasn''t given:

a) Clattenburg - he has to be right and in charge and doesn''t allow for common sense refereeing i.e. going with his assistant who was much better positioned than him

b) Where the game was being played - Old Trafford, referee''s are afraid to give decisions as they know if they don''t go with Utd they won''t be refereeing in the Premiership the following week. Its the poisoned challices that is everything thats wrong with the Premiership. You only have to look at the G. Neville incident the previous weekend for evidence on this.

I''m fed up with Man Utd getting protection from referees and the league needs to get tougher on them in terms of their general atttitude. No wonder they have done so well in recent seasons, they''ve probably gained 20+ points from the league and referee''s lax attitude towards them!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
First Wazzock - I''m glad you seem to agree with me here, and as a fellow referee I''m glad you see the ''advantage'' was clearly not there!

Batternburg has a history with Spurs v. Man U remember the goal he didn''t give for them when Pedro Mendes shot from the half-way line and it was clearly in?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
What is this rubbish about there being no advantage?

Gomes had hold of the ball, he can, if he wishes move to the edge of the area and distribute the ball wherever he wants. The disadvantage would be to tell him to go back to the edge of the goal area and take a place kick.

Had he quickly launched the ball down field and Spurs had scored that would have been a good advantage, had he launched the ball downfield and Spurs hadn''t scored would it be argued there was no advantage the the place kick should have been taken?

You can''t have it both ways!

Another interesting point if you look again at the goal is the reaction of the Spurs players as Gomes is wanting to get on with the game quickly ..... none of them help him by wanting to receive the ball from him ..... they are as to blame as he is!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
When ''Arry was ranting and raving about the injustice of it all afterwards, one member of the press said "So if that had been a goal given to Spurs you wouldn''t have accepted it then?" Arry replied: "You must be from Manchester". No, Carlisle actually, the hack replied.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

[quote user="Yellow Wall"]What is this rubbish about there being no advantage?

Gomes had hold of the ball, he can, if he wishes move to the edge of the area and distribute the ball wherever he wants. The disadvantage would be to tell him to go back to the edge of the goal area and take a place kick.

Had he quickly launched the ball down field and Spurs had scored that would have been a good advantage, had he launched the ball downfield and Spurs hadn''t scored would it be argued there was no advantage the the place kick should have been taken?

You can''t have it both ways!

Another interesting point if you look again at the goal is the reaction of the Spurs players as Gomes is wanting to get on with the game quickly ..... none of them help him by wanting to receive the ball from him ..... they are as to blame as he is![/quote]I''m a qualified ref too, and I''m totally with you on this one. At park level you''re told never to play advantage in the defensive third, but in the professional game, advantages are used with much more frequency to aid the flow of the game. Gomes put the ball down, without the referee either blowing his whistle, or indicating a free-kick with his body language. Gomes had the ball in his hands, and the opportunity to continue play from the edge of the box – ask any goalkeeper what they''d prefer, and they''ll tell you they''d rather have ball in hand.In my view, Clattenburg''s only mistake was allowing Rio to stand right next to him and his assistant and bark at them while they were discussing the incident – his assessor will rightly castigate him for that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Having watched the episode on motd on saturday night I''m staggered about the amount of support being given to the ref.

Whatever the technical aspect of the advantage law being used etc the goal itself is a dreadful advert for common sense.

As for Ferdinand wouldn''t it have been nice for a change for him to turn round and say "this doesn''t feel right it shouldn''t be a goal", similar to Di Canio at Everton.

In all probability the score would have been 1-0 anyway but now we might never know.

Sadly incompetence allied with a lack of common sense provides extreme circumstances.

Sunderlands beach ball, Kuyts goal, Pedro Mendes''s goal that never was at Old Trafford are all scenarios where common sense should have applied. Much in the same way our goal at Reading shouldn''t have stood a few years ago.

Players should be more brave to do the right thing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Has Clattenburg actually come out and said that he gave advantage to Spurs as they had the ball then? Or did he just signal to play on as he didn''t see the handball and in his eyes no offence was committed (possible)

The only fault i have with this is that the lino only flagged when Gomes had gone over to him, not at the time of the offence.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

[quote user="norfolkchance1"]Whatever the technical aspect of the advantage law being used etc the goal itself is a dreadful advert for common sense.[/quote]

I agree...................Gomes should have had the common sense to play to the whistle. I was taught that at around ten years old.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

[quote user="Give Peas a Chance "]No the OP was spot on.... The referee has waved for advantage (his 2 arms rising upwards away from his body) yet clearly there is no advantage - hence why a free-kick should of been given. There are 2 factors why this free-kick wasn''t given: a) Clattenburg - he has to be right and in charge and doesn''t allow for common sense refereeing i.e. going with his assistant who was much better positioned than him b) Where the game was being played - Old Trafford, referee''s are afraid to give decisions as they know if they don''t go with Utd they won''t be refereeing in the Premiership the following week. Its the poisoned challices that is everything thats wrong with the Premiership. You only have to look at the G. Neville incident the previous weekend for evidence on this. I''m fed up with Man Utd getting protection from referees and the league needs to get tougher on them in terms of their general atttitude. No wonder they have done so well in recent seasons, they''ve probably gained 20+ points from the league and referee''s lax attitude towards them![/quote]

Spot on, especially with the Neville incident.

Any other player and that would have been a red card, for either of the two horrendous tackles.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

At the risk of repeating some points previously made, the goal should be allowed to stand, as what happened was within the laws of the game.

Where confusion appears to arise is because a lot of people either don''t actually understand the rules of the game, including Gomes, who''s paid £1,000''s a pounds a week to play the game, or, people are confusing the rules with morality and sportsmanship, neither of which are held in much regard by the players who play the game.

Clearly, there''s a fine line between, what is referred to a professionalism and cheating. Yes, Nani can rightly be critised for trying to win a penalty by falling over rather too easily within the box from the slighest of contact. He can be further critised for trying to influence the referee inot giving a penalty by handling the ball. Either incident could, and probably normally would be blown for a foul, with Nani also being booked.

However, the ref is perfectly entitled to play advantage and there are two important points to bear in mind here.

Firstly, there''s nothing in the rules, unlike in Rugby Union, specifiying the time limit to play advantage, before the ref can call the play back. In football, this time period is often too brief.

Secondly, Gomes has the ball in his hands. He was in a position to advance to the edge of his area and kick the ball from his hands, gaining much further distance with a kcik from his hand than he would from a free kick, also thereby giving United''s players insufficient time to reposition normally and furhter wind down the clock.

Gomes is 100% culipable as to what happened next because gave up the advantage, whether through confusion or ignorance, by putting the ball down on the pitch. Nani, despite his previous indiscretions, looked at the ref to check that the ball was in play (bearing in mind that at no time did the ref blow his whistle to stop play) and was waved on accordingly. How many players in those circumstances would actually refuse a free shot at goal?

I would never expect Rednapp to critise his players in public, but the fact is, Gomes messed up big time and, whatever the morality and sportsmanship issues surrounding the series of event, the goal can stand.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I''ll make the point again as I don''t think it was recieved properly the first time around by certain quarters...

Mark Batternburg signalled ''advantage'' (by raising his arms upwards in front of his body) this was seen quite clearly on the TV replays, yet there was no advantage from the offence. How can this be within the laws of the game?

In all of this you have to congratulate Nani for his instincts as some players may not of done what he done, it doesn''t make him any less of a cheat though!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

[quote user="Give Peas a Chance "]I''ll make the point again as I don''t think it was recieved properly the first time around by certain quarters... Mark Batternburg signalled ''advantage'' (by raising his arms upwards in front of his body) this was seen quite clearly on the TV replays, yet there was no advantage from the offence. How can this be within the laws of the game? In all of this you have to congratulate Nani for his instincts as some players may not of done what he done, it doesn''t make him any less of a cheat though![/quote]

What I think you are advocating is a return to the days when it was very rare for the game to flow and the referee constantly blowing the whistle every minute. Lets imagine that play should now always be stopped and on Saturday a ball is played down the line. A defender throws out a hand and diverts the ball into the path of Holt who strides forward and blasts an unstoppable shot into the roof of the Burnley net. Will you be happy for the ref to say sorry an offence was committed back there and after Saturday we have now been instructed to ensure every infringement results in a free kick.

Had a free kick been given on Saturday there would have been a free kick from the 6 yard box. All 11 Man Utd players would have been behind the ball and probably 30 seconds ( a long time when you are in the last 5 minutes ) would have been used. Gomes was free to use the ball quickly, from the edge of his box and 2 Man Utd players were out of the game. How many goalkeepers would have gone mad had they have been ordered back to take a free kick, the only one I can think of that would not want to carry on is Gomes

That said as I mentioned earlier in the thread the ref should maybe have said no goal as not within the spirit of the game,however other than a couple of people on here the only 2 people that I have heard saying within the rules it should have been disallowed is Redknapp and Gomes.   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
There''s a couple of points here.

How much of an advantage do you really have when you are inside your own 18 yard area?

Nani having committed the offence then immediately came back into play once he approached the ball. Didn''t that then cancel out the advantage?

Spurs were defending, what we don''t see from the TV is where there attacking players were. Are they already being marked? What advantage would hoofing aimlessly the ball have gained them?

Normally the advantage rule is used when a team is on the attack in the opposing half not after defending in their own half. E.g. a player falls over after a tackle in their own half. You never see advantage being given to the defending team in their own penalty area.

Did Clatternberg give the advantage for the dive or the handball? It seems it was for the dive and he missed the handball (ok he didn''t see it) however the lino should of flagged for the handball.

This to me is a clear example (and the Ireland France example) are clear reasons why extra officials won''t help to cut out these mistakes. They aren''t willing to make those bold and crucial decisions as they leave it to the man in the middle who often in these cases can''t see.

Please remember this isn''t a Johnson Greeno incident where no offence had occurred and it was just plain stupidity. Nani plainly committed an offence which should of been flagged as soon as it happened.

Unfortunately as soon as the goal had gone in without Clatternbug''s knowledge of the handball incident it was always going to stand otherwise he would of come afoul of the red-faced-buffoon and been relegated to the Blue Square.

I don''t blame Clatternburg I blame the spineless lino for not flagging the handball. It''s his failure to do so that led to this mess. If he had of flagged once the offence had off occurred would Nani of then been allowed to approach the ball and slot it in the back of the net? Probably not.

Davo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don''t believe the ref signalled ''advantage'' a such

His signal was to ''play on''.

This was clearly in Spurs favour as they had possession and the opportunity to launch a quick counter attack.

OTBC

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
For the life of me I cannot understand the reasoning of some posters here.

What better advantage can a goalkeeper have but to have the ball in his hands to do with as he pleases. As for somebody to say ''clearly there is no advantage'', there clearly was an advantage until Gomes put the ball on the ground. The advantage situation happens time and time again. If a forward goes to play the ball from an offside position but the ball runs through to the keeper the game is not stopped for the keeper to take the offside free kick, the game continues because the keeper has the ball in his hands ..... the best advantage he could have.

I would, however, make a couple of criticisms of Mr. Clattenburg. He should have made Rio Ferdinand go away from the discussion with his assistant and he could possibly have made it clearer to Gomes that he was ''playing on'' as he had possession by loudly shouting ''play on'' (as we quite often hear in local football!).

But verbal instructions may not work in the Premiership as English is at best only a second language for many (or most) of the players!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...