Grant Holt Poll

[Captain Holt 520]

http://services.pinkun.com/FORUMS/PINKUN/CS/forums/2326014/ShowPost.aspx#2326014

Lets try and get the majority''s opinion shall we?

[Beauseant 0]

No, let''s continue to bury our heads in the sand and ignore the bleeding obvious like you.

[Howson is now! 0]

I can''t vote. If I could, I would vote to drop him.

[JF 694]

It''s as clear as day that he needs a "rest" from the starting line up the only problem is there is no one else to bring in, Will Jackson and Martin work?

[Howson is now! 0]

I honestly think that if we dropped Holt and played a midfield four of McNamee on the right, Crofts and Fox in the middle, and Wes on the left. (but given a free roaming role similar to the one Gerrard did for England as Hoolahan is no left winger) We could play Martin and Jackson up top, we could change our style, stop hoofing it for Holt to back into a player and try to win a free kick and not the ball, and pass the ball about on the deck crisply and quickly, we''d have a very VERY effective plan B.

[JF 694]

[quote user="CallsignViper"]I honestly think that if we dropped Holt and played a midfield four of McNamee on the right, Crofts and Fox in the middle, and Wes on the left. (but given a free roaming role similar to the one Gerrard did for England as Hoolahan is no left winger) We could play Martin and Jackson up top, we could change our style, stop hoofing it for Holt to back into a player and try to win a free kick and not the ball, and pass the ball about on the deck crisply and quickly, we''d have a very VERY effective plan B.
[/quote]It has to be worth a go cos as you say all we had yesterday was the long ball up front that in all honesty Holt didn''t even challenge for. The problem with his constant trying to win a free kick and not playing the ball is it cancels out any chance of hitting the opposition on the counter attack, Time and time again yesterday what was needed was for him to hold the ball up and bring others into the game and he went to the ground to easily.

[Howson is now! 0]

I just wish I understood why he does it so much. I know it''s a step up from league 1 but it''s clear that he does have the quality because you still see glimpses of it. Last season he would take those balls on the chest and turn his man. Or he would hold it up and knock it to Hoolahan or Martin. It''s like he doesn''t have any faith in his own ability so he''s just trying to win a free kick every time by either jumping a couple of seconds too early to put the defender off or back into them and going to ground.As you quite rightly point out, our threat of counter attacks is completely nullified by our own player. If we could get the ball on the deck and pass it really quickly, I honestly believe we''ve got the quality to cut open any team. It''s when we look our most dangerous. However, I''m not complaining because we''re still getting points, just some observations.

[whoareyou? 0]

Maybe he still isn''t properly fit. He certainly doesn''t look it to me.

 

I can''t see we can afford someone to effectivley challenge him for his place anyway.

[ZLF 271]

Its not just grant holt though is it?

Jackson, Martin and Johnson have had the same impact as holt in this league - so it seems odd to me that Holt is being singled out. They are all  lacking at least on of pace, power or movement and all a cutting edge, which is making us predictable

Pretty much our attackers have not caused enough problems for our opponents centre halfs and have not taken the chances we have created well enough - and thats a charge that all our forwards are guilty of.

It does not help that we are not creating enough from midfield either - Hoolahan is our main threat but is treated as suh so snuffed out with teams knowing we do not have another creatove outlet. Surman is injured,  mcnamee beats his man but lacks quality on his crosses and lappin delivers a good dead ball and works hard defensively.

Our strikers are not quite up to scratch.  If they were we would be certs for a play off - as it is mid to upper table is probably our right level this season.  

[First Wizard 0]

[quote user="Captain Holts Controversial Jokes"]http://services.pinkun.com/FORUMS/PINKUN/CS/forums/2326014/ShowPost.aspx#2326014 Lets try and get the majority''s opinion shall we?[/quote]

Yeah, lets all put further pressure on our captain.[:S]

[JF 694]

[quote user="ZippersLeftFoot"]

Its not just grant holt though is it?

Jackson, Martin and Johnson have had the same impact as holt in this league - so it seems odd to me that Holt is being singled out. They are all  lacking at least on of pace, power or movement and all a cutting edge, which is making us predictable

Pretty much our attackers have not caused enough problems for our opponents centre halfs and have not taken the chances we have created well enough - and thats a charge that all our forwards are guilty of.

It does not help that we are not creating enough from midfield either - Hoolahan is our main threat but is treated as suh so snuffed out with teams knowing we do not have another creatove outlet. Surman is injured,  mcnamee beats his man but lacks quality on his crosses and lappin delivers a good dead ball and works hard defensively.

Our strikers are not quite up to scratch.  If they were we would be certs for a play off - as it is mid to upper table is probably our right level this season.  

[/quote]No it''s not just Holt you would have to say our entire strike force is just not quite good enough. I think the reason Holt is now coming under the spotlight is because he is seen as undropable, where as the others have all had their time on the bench and maybe we expected more from him than he is showing.

[Howson is now! 0]

Good point well made Zipper. I guess maybe it''s just because Holt is seen as our talisman that it becomes all too easy to pick him out for criticism. I''m trying to be constructive with my criticism though and not just slag off a player for the sake of it.I''ve actually been more impressed with Macca''s deliveries this season compared to his earlier days. I think he''s starting to prove more of a threat. You''re right that Hoolahan isn''t having as much of an impact as we would like, but as you say, he''s being snuffed out effectively because he is seen as our main threat. However, I think that this is a major factor as to why Crofts is thriving so much.I''ve also been pretty impressed with Jackson but, he''s not going to thrive unless he gets the right delivery from a Hoolahan-esque pass through the middle. When he runs off the shoulder, he''s shown that he''ll either score or work the keeper. He doesn''t usually waste it in those positions. It''s just getting him into those positions that is proving difficult sometimes.

[Smudger 0]

[quote user="ZippersLeftFoot"]

Its not just grant holt though is it?

Jackson, Martin and Johnson have had the same impact as holt in this league - so it seems odd to me that Holt is being singled out. They are all  lacking at least on of pace, power or movement and all a cutting edge, which is making us predictable

Pretty much our attackers have not caused enough problems for our opponents centre halfs and have not taken the chances we have created well enough - and thats a charge that all our forwards are guilty of.

It does not help that we are not creating enough from midfield either - Hoolahan is our main threat but is treated as suh so snuffed out with teams knowing we do not have another creatove outlet. Surman is injured,  mcnamee beats his man but lacks quality on his crosses and lappin delivers a good dead ball and works hard defensively.

Our strikers are not quite up to scratch.  If they were we would be certs for a play off - as it is mid to upper table is probably our right level this season.  

[/quote]What load of waffle... [:$]Were you at Forest away or Preston away, where Chris Martin was fantastic?Simeon Jackson has looked more than pretty handy against a few teams too.We also have problem areas in our team that are nothing to do with who starts upfront.  We lack an additional ball winner in midfield during many games, struggle down the left hand side without Drury and Surman and for me it is time that Rudd was given a long run in the team in place of Ruddy.

[Brendo 0]

Hmm, so people don''t like Holt''s peformances recently? I''d certainly drop him for at least a game and see how we do. Burnley dropped Iwelumo (who is their physical presence?) yesterday, and were top notch first half.

[ZLF 271]

[quote user="Smudger"]
What load of waffle... [:$]

Were you at Forest away or Preston away, where Chris Martin was fantastic?

Simeon Jackson has looked more than pretty handy against a few teams too.

We also have problem areas in our team that are nothing to do with who starts upfront.  We lack an additional ball winner in midfield during many games, struggle down the left hand side without Drury and Surman and for me it is time that Rudd was given a long run in the team in place of Ruddy.
[/quote]

 

lol!   My point is I am happy for Holt to be dropped - its just that the alternatives are no better!  

Martin was dropped as he was being ineffective - Jackson like Martin has had the odd good game but has mainly been too quiet.   We are 15 league games in and our strikers have a total of 9 goals from 44 appearances between them.  When they have 4,3 or 2 goals each tell; me how that makes any of them any better than the rest?    They are simply not doing the business - and I dont think they are good enough.   Independent report after report tells of Norwich being lightweight up, and of chances not being taken by all our three strikers.  

Even ignoring the goals tell me where they are causing defenders problems game in game out?   None of them have been or will. 

Claiming they have had an odd game here or a few teams here is the real apologists waffle.

Surman is a big miss for both shape and creativity - but defensively our real issue is consistency - errors are costing us more because of our lighweight attacking options.

[Smudger 0]

[quote user="ZippersLeftFoot"]

[quote user="Smudger"]What load of waffle... [:$]Were you at Forest away or Preston away, where Chris Martin was fantastic?Simeon Jackson has looked more than pretty handy against a few teams too.We also have problem areas in our team that are nothing to do with who starts upfront.  We lack an additional ball winner in midfield during many games, struggle down the left hand side without Drury and Surman and for me it is time that Rudd was given a long run in the team in place of Ruddy.[/quote]

 

lol!   My point is I am happy for Holt to be dropped - its just that the alternatives are no better!  

Martin was dropped as he was being ineffective - Jackson like Martin has had the odd good game but has mainly been too quiet.   We are 15 league games in and our strikers have a total of 9 goals from 44 appearances between them.  When they have 4,3 or 2 goals each tell; me how that makes any of them any better than the rest?    They are simply not doing the business - and I dont think they are good enough.   Independent report after report tells of Norwich being lightweight up, and of chances not being taken by all our three strikers.  

Even ignoring the goals tell me where they are causing defenders problems game in game out?   None of them have been or will. 

Claiming they have had an odd game here or a few teams here is the real apologists waffle.

Surman is a big miss for both shape and creativity - but defensively our real issue is consistency - errors are costing us more because of our lighweight attacking options.

[/quote]I agree that Surman is a big miss, but how many games as he been outstanding in so far for us so far?It is the same with those who criticise a possible Jackson/Chris Martin partnership, based on the evidence of one match where Lambo drastically got the player to play at the base of the diamond wrong (with Fox instead of Crofts).Let''s be fair with the criticism of players in our squad.  If somebody is not performing week in week out then they deserve to take their place on the bench.  With the exception of two or three players (Crofts, Russell Martin and Elliot Ward) then for me nobody has done enough yet this season to not be looking over their shoulder and thinking if I don''t improve my performance levels then I could spend some time on the bench.I guess that you would play Holt for 90 mins at Millwall though and expect him to win balls in the air against the likes of Robinson and Ward?

[chicken 0]

[quote user="Brendo "]Hmm, so people don''t like Holt''s peformances recently? I''d certainly drop him for at least a game and see how we do. Burnley dropped Iwelumo (who is their physical presence?) yesterday, and were top notch first half.[/quote]

Did you manage to lisen to it this time?

[ZLF 271]

[quote user="Smudger"]

I agree that Surman is a big miss, but how many games as he been outstanding in so far for us so far?

It is the same with those who criticise a possible Jackson/Chris Martin partnership, based on the evidence of one match where Lambo drastically got the player to play at the base of the diamond wrong (with Fox instead of Crofts).

Let''s be fair with the criticism of players in our squad.  If somebody is not performing week in week out then they deserve to take their place on the bench.  With the exception of two or three players (Crofts, Russell Martin and Elliot Ward) then for me nobody has done enough yet this season to not be looking over their shoulder and thinking if I don''t improve my performance levels then I could spend some time on the bench.

I guess that you would play Holt for 90 mins at Millwall though and expect him to win balls in the air against the likes of Robinson and Ward?
[/quote]

I am quite happy to drop Holt against Millwall.  My point is that it is naive to think that Jackson/Martin will be any better simply because it has not been tried - what we have seen from all of our strikers this season is nothing to scare the opposition.

It reminds me of the Brennan/Drury situation a few seasons ago - Drury was struggling, in the prem I think, so there was a push for Brennan as the solution - yet we were worse when he came in the push move towards charlton.      The point is because it has not been used does not make is better.   Drury was the best option then.   Likewise Holt may be the best we have now,  just not quite up to it - and from what I have seen there is a gnats chuff of difference in terms of real impact between our top three strikers so shuffling the line up just keeps the fans happy for a game or two.