Enough with the Grant Holt Rubbish.

[Captain Holt 520]

If anyone believes we should drop Holt rneeds to learn how to watch the game in a different light. Being a centre forward isn''t all about scoring goals. He made the last goal today (made the tackle to set it up anyway), got in the defenders faces and showed heart and determination when we were chasing the game. Without Holt''s leadership and influence I''m confident we wouldn''t have got a point today.

He''s a very very clever player who knows all the tricks there is to know about playing centre forward and the goals will come.

We just all need to be a bit more patient and realise he isn''t gonna score 30 goals in this league (he''s gone from league 2 mediocrity to our ridiculously high expectations at championship level in about 16 months).

Maybe if the rest of our forwards learnt a bit more from Holt we wouldn''t be relying so heavily on him.

And in conclusion:

Last 4 Games

1 goal, 2 assists.

Is that not decent enough for this level?

[Captain Holt 520]

http://services.pinkun.com/FORUMS/PINKUN/CS/forums/2326014/ShowPost.aspx#2326014

Poll. Let''s settle this.

[Nexus_Canary 1,016]

I think he needs a rest, but agree that talk of perma dropping him and giving the captaincy away is down right mutiny !Gazza, shush your a plum  well in advance of your post as you will be over this thread like a horny dog to a lamp post !

[Beauseant 0]

Unfortunately for some people denial is just a river in Egypt.[:|]

[Erik the Viking 0]

What the hell have you been dring today Captain, Castrol GTX?!?!

[Captain Holt 520]

No, sensible juice. You should try it at the next home game, get the one with the added sense of perspective.

[ryan1992 0]

[quote user="Captain Holts Controversial Jokes"]If anyone believes we should drop Holt rneeds to learn how to watch the game in a different light. Being a centre forward isn''t all about scoring goals. He made the last goal today (made the tackle to set it up anyway), got in the defenders faces and showed heart and determination when we were chasing the game. Without Holt''s leadership and influence I''m confident we wouldn''t have got a point today. He''s a very very clever player who knows all the tricks there is to know about playing centre forward and the goals will come. We just all need to be a bit more patient and realise he isn''t gonna score 30 goals in this league (he''s gone from league 2 mediocrity to our ridiculously high expectations at championship level in about 16 months). Maybe if the rest of our forwards learnt a bit more from Holt we wouldn''t be relying so heavily on him. And in conclusion: Last 4 Games 1 goal, 2 assists. Is that not decent enough for this level?[/quote]

And there was me thinking sensible posters on here were extinct! Top, top post, and all totally true! Holt is a machine, and without him we would be a very poor side upfront. He leads the team brilliantly with a fantastic attitude. He can score, create chances, a threat in the air and with the ball at his feet, any defender coming out of a game vs him without any cuts and bruises was too scared to go near him, plus he defends well from set pieces and tracking back. IMO, he is a top centre forward, possibly too clever for the other strikers sometimes! To play Jacko and Martin together would be a very poor strikeforce,even though they are both good players.

[Paul Spector 0]

He''s a top player - certainly good enough for this league. Poor today, but not bad enough to write him off like some are. Hopefully back on form Tuesday.

[Muddy funster 0]

I also agree. People slagged off his performance at Cardiff, but it was him the home fans were worried about and saying how much he puts himself about. What more can the man do. He''s never going to do a Gareth Bale so let him do his thing!

[Lambert is King 0]

Your thread is like a politicians thread giving stats that suit. Until today I still thought Holt was the best we had, Chris Martin did something today that made me think.

If you are going to quote stats I think it only fair to say in the championship Holts goal scoring record is not good 14 appearances for us = 3 goals 4 appearences for Blackpool = 0 goals ? appearences for Forest ( maybe op an tell me ) = 0 goals. Holt is being made out to be our best player ever which he certainly is not. Is he as good as we have now probably. Would all four of Burnleys strikers have been in our side day if they were Norwich players I would say yes.

IMO lets support Holt while he is playing, but people have made him out to be something that he is not and that is why people are now saying he is not good enough. Its not he is not good its more he is not as good as many claimed so he feels a let down. He probably was always good enough to play in an average championship team, but not good enough to blast a team out of the championship.  

[Superflash 0]

See this chap, yeah? He wears Grant Holt pyjamas. Seriously, Grant Holt is the daddy. How anyone can have anything but love for the guy is a crime to be honest. He''s doing just fine and dandy.

[Captain Holt 520]

He is as good as many have claimed, It''s just that most of those have claimed he''s shiyte because he hasn''t scored 4 hat tricks yet.

[Chunky Norwich 0]

Spends too much of his time on the floor.

If he won as many headers or took as many shots as he fell over, he''d be the league''s top scorer

[Bury Yellow 2]

Holty - Top Bloke. Not his best game today. To those who want him dropped, who do you replace him with?

Before you answer that, remember Jackson and Martin together against Watford? Then a 50% fit Holt came on and we nearly rescued the game.

[JF 694]

We need to bring in  another centre forward for competition in the transfer window as a priority. No players place in the team should be a given and I thought he was very  poor today.

[Theres only one Martin Peters! 0]

Holt is a good member of the team at this stage in our journey and capable of making a valuable contribution in the Championship.

What it should not be is a given that he will start every game, and we need another squad member who can come in and play the big target man role and give Holty a bit of competition.

As always it comes down to resources we are £23M in debt and sadly cannot just buy our way out of this league.

[grantroederdisaster 0]

[quote user="Captain Holt''s Controversial Jokes"]If anyone believes we should drop Holt rneeds to learn how to watch the game in a different light. Being a centre forward isn''t all about scoring goals. He made the last goal today (made the tackle to set it up anyway), got in the defenders faces and showed heart and determination when we were chasing the game. Without Holt''s leadership and influence I''m confident we wouldn''t have got a point today. He''s a very very clever player who knows all the tricks there is to know about playing centre forward and the goals will come. We just all need to be a bit more patient and realise he isn''t gonna score 30 goals in this league (he''s gone from league 2 mediocrity to our ridiculously high expectations at championship level in about 16 months). Maybe if the rest of our forwards learnt a bit more from Holt we wouldn''t be relying so heavily on him. And in conclusion: Last 4 Games 1 goal, 2 assists. Is that not decent enough for this level?

 

Spot on and exactly what I''ve been saying for a while now!

 

Holt was never going to be as prolific in this League but so far this season he has done a better than average targetman job without being over impressive.

 

Holts a constant menace for defences although like other fans I get frustrated when he drifts out of position and at times doesn''t try to win headers from lon clearances.

 

Hes the only targetman we''ve got and if we lost him we''d be a worse cause Chris (please people stop all this Chrissy nonsense cause most of us wouldn''t even know him!) Martin is not effective as a targetman and nor is anyone else.

 

To replace Holt with someone better you''d probably have to part with the best part of £1M!

 

A lot of the Holt slagging is due the need to have a target with the previous target Russell Martin having done a more than satisfactory job this season. 

[Smudger 0]

[quote user="Hollywood Canary"]He''s a top player - certainly good enough for this league. Poor today, but not bad enough to write him off like some are. Hopefully back on form Tuesday.[/quote]I can''t see that two many teams with top 6 ambitions, would be playing Holty for 90 mins week in week out.A place in the squad at this level he is maybe good enough for.  To be the leading striker that you are pinning your hopes of a play-off push on is extemely debateable for me.  Holty is playing at the highest level he has ever played at and he is not head and shoulders above either Simeon Jackson or Chris Martin, yet week in week out we see the Jackson for Martin substitution made regardless of how well/or otherwise Holty has been performing.

[Smudger 0]

[quote user="Lambert is King"]

Your thread is like a politicians thread giving stats that suit. Until today I still thought Holt was the best we had, Chris Martin did something today that made me think.

If you are going to quote stats I think it only fair to say in the championship Holts goal scoring record is not good 14 appearances for us = 3 goals 4 appearences for Blackpool = 0 goals ? appearences for Forest ( maybe op an tell me ) = 0 goals. Holt is being made out to be our best player ever which he certainly is not. Is he as good as we have now probably. Would all four of Burnleys strikers have been in our side day if they were Norwich players I would say yes.

IMO lets support Holt while he is playing, but people have made him out to be something that he is not and that is why people are now saying he is not good enough. Its not he is not good its more he is not as good as many claimed so he feels a let down. He probably was always good enough to play in an average championship team, but not good enough to blast a team out of the championship.  

[/quote]Spot on for me... [Y]

[grantroederdisaster 0]

Holts the only targetman we have at the club. Chris Martin can''t play as a targetman!

 

Simple really!

 

Agree entirely that we need another targetman striker at the club to put Holt under pressure!  

[Smudger 0]

[quote user="grantroederdisaster"]

Holts the only targetman we have at the club. Chris Martin can''t play as a targetman!

 

Simple really!

 

Agree entirely that we need another targetman striker at the club to put Holt under pressure!  

[/quote]Simple?  Like your thinking???Who says that you need a target man on the pitch for 90 mins of every game?If Paul Robinson and Darren Ward are still centre halves for Millwall on Tuesday evening then it is unlikely that Holty will win a thing in air agaisnt them.  So why play him?  You play certain players to exploit the weaknesses of certain teams.

[. 0]

Poor old Holt.... hero to zero in a matter of moments.He basically gets the team back into Div.2 where we are in touch with the promotion places..... he''s scored and created vital goals already... and is an inspiration to everyone on the pitch.  Couple this with young Martin''s early season comments that the team "should not just rely on himself and Holt for goals this season".... and there you have it.Ludicrous and naive expectations just one season after being at our lowest ebb for 50 years ..... and if you carry on like that you''ll blow the ship out of the water and drive a superb manager/coaching staff away.What you will have left would be what you deserve.....yet again.

[Smudger 0]

[quote user="Cluckbert Chase"]Poor old Holt.... hero to zero in a matter of moments.He basically gets the team back into Div.2 where we are in touch with the promotion places..... he''s scored and created vital goals already... and is an inspiration to everyone on the pitch.  Couple this with young Martin''s early season comments that the team "should not just rely on himself and Holt for goals this season".... and there you have it.Ludicrous and naive expectations just one season after being at our lowest ebb for 50 years ..... and if you carry on like that you''ll blow the ship out of the water and drive a superb manager/coaching staff away.What you will have left would be what you deserve.....yet again.[/quote]Is this based on your evidence of seeing Holty play how many times this season Cluck?

[chicken 0]

[quote user="Smudger"][quote user="Cluckbert Chase"]Poor old Holt.... hero to zero in a matter of moments.He basically gets the team back into Div.2 where we are in touch with the promotion places..... he''s scored and created vital goals already... and is an inspiration to everyone on the pitch.  Couple this with young Martin''s early season comments that the team "should not just rely on himself and Holt for goals this season".... and there you have it.Ludicrous and naive expectations just one season after being at our lowest ebb for 50 years ..... and if you carry on like that you''ll blow the ship out of the water and drive a superb manager/coaching staff away.What you will have left would be what you deserve.....yet again.[/quote]Is this based on your evidence of seeing Holty play how many times this season Cluck?[/quote]

Ah so you have given up the protests and refusal to go to games whilst Smith and Jones are at the club?

I would like to agree that sometimes you can play to non-combative players up front, but I would say it would have to be against a creaking old defence made up of defenders that are not that great.

We looked better yesterday with MacNamee on the pitch putting balls in where defenders hate to have them. I say go with him to start Tuesday and give Holt a chance to do more damage for once and then lets pass comment on whether you need a target in the box. Otherwise everying is through the middle of the pitch and in all likeliness in front of their defence - which as a defender you always prefer.

[. 0]

[quote user="Smudger"][quote user="Cluckbert Chase"]Poor old Holt.... hero to zero in a matter of moments.He basically gets the team back into Div.2 where we are in touch with the promotion places..... he''s scored and created vital goals already... and is an inspiration to everyone on the pitch.  Couple this with young Martin''s early season comments that the team "should not just rely on himself and Holt for goals this season".... and there you have it.Ludicrous and naive expectations just one season after being at our lowest ebb for 50 years ..... and if you carry on like that you''ll blow the ship out of the water and drive a superb manager/coaching staff away.What you will have left would be what you deserve.....yet again.[/quote]Is this based on your evidence of seeing Holty play how many times this season Cluck?[/quote]Rather hypocritical from you Smudger.... Forgotten already what many said about you not so long back?  Look at the league table and look at the stats.... and to coin a phrase, ''if it ain''t broke don''t fix it''. We''re 7th and you should be satisfied.

Sounds to me like you''ve lost your way somewhat.......

[Smudger 0]

[quote user="Cluckbert Chase"][quote user="Smudger"][quote user="Cluckbert Chase"]Poor old Holt.... hero to zero in a matter of moments.He basically gets the team back into Div.2 where we are in touch with the promotion places..... he''s scored and created vital goals already... and is an inspiration to everyone on the pitch.  Couple this with young Martin''s early season comments that the team "should not just rely on himself and Holt for goals this season".... and there you have it.Ludicrous and naive expectations just one season after being at our lowest ebb for 50 years ..... and if you carry on like that you''ll blow the ship out of the water and drive a superb manager/coaching staff away.What you will have left would be what you deserve.....yet again.[/quote]Is this based on your evidence of seeing Holty play how many times this season Cluck?[/quote]Rather hypocritical from you Smudger.... Forgotten already what many said about you not so long back?  Look at the league table and look at the stats.... and to coin a phrase, ''if it ain''t broke don''t fix it''. We''re 7th and you should be satisfied.

Sounds to me like you''ve lost your way somewhat.......[/quote]haha nice comeback... [:D]You were always a bit weak on the football tactics topics though weren''t you Cluck?  Maybe you should stick to focusing on events in the boardroom?Holt is out of his depth trying to play 90 mins week in week out at this level - at least for a team with aspirations of the play-offs.Maybe you are advocating that we just be happy with midtable consolidation?  If that is the case then I would say that it is you who has finally dumbed down their aspirations to fit in with the majority?  I believe that Jackson and Martin are both better players than Holt.  I also believe that they haven''t been given enough time on the pitch playing alongside eachother, for anybody to draw a conclusion that we can''t do better than we are doing now with Holty spending some time on the bench/or being withdrawn after 60 to 70 mins in games

[. 0]

[quote user="Smudger"][quote user="Cluckbert Chase"][quote user="Smudger"][quote user="Cluckbert Chase"]Poor old Holt.... hero to zero in a matter of moments.He basically gets the team back into Div.2 where we are in touch with the promotion places..... he''s scored and created vital goals already... and is an inspiration to everyone on the pitch.  Couple this with young Martin''s early season comments that the team "should not just rely on himself and Holt for goals this season".... and there you have it.Ludicrous and naive expectations just one season after being at our lowest ebb for 50 years ..... and if you carry on like that you''ll blow the ship out of the water and drive a superb manager/coaching staff away.What you will have left would be what you deserve.....yet again.[/quote]Is this based on your evidence of seeing Holty play how many times this season Cluck?[/quote]Rather hypocritical from you Smudger.... Forgotten already what many said about you not so long back?  Look at the league table and look at the stats.... and to coin a phrase, ''if it ain''t broke don''t fix it''. We''re 7th and you should be satisfied.

Sounds to me like you''ve lost your way somewhat.......[/quote]haha nice comeback... [:D]You were always a bit weak on the football tactics topics though weren''t you Cluck?  Maybe you should stick to focusing on events in the boardroom?Holt is out of his depth trying to play 90 mins week in week out at this level - at least for a team with aspirations of the play-offs.Maybe you are advocating that we just be happy with midtable consolidation?  If that is the case then I would say that it is you who has finally dumbed down their aspirations to fit in with the majority?  I believe that Jackson and Martin are both better players than Holt.  I also believe that they haven''t been given enough time on the pitch playing alongside eachother, for anybody to draw a conclusion that we can''t do better than we are doing now with Holty spending some time on the bench/or being withdrawn after 60 to 70 mins in games [/quote]I may know bugger all about tactics.... but I always remember those who have given their all to the club. I think Paul Lambert knows what is the best thing to do with his players... and I''m happy to leave him to it....Contrary to advocating  ''mid-table consolidation''... I am just being realistic as usual. Look back to a time when you were getting slagged off left right and centre on here, to where we are now.... haven''t things improved wildly beyond everyone''s expectations since then?I suspect you are hoping for a D-Cup breast to pop out of a B-Cup bra. Over expectation like that is certain to bring about disappointment .... and in my view a B-Cup is good enough to be going on with for now.....

[Bury Yellow 2]

Playing Martin and Jackson as a strike force eh Smudge?

Glad you''re not our manager mate!

[Largey 0]

I really want Grant Holt to score on Tuesday!

[Boyo 0]

Well I think it''s pretty clear that Grant Holt is out of his depth at Championship level.  He has been very poor all season and I thought this would be obvious.

 

When he has the ball he is not doing anything with it at all and is losing us possesion quite a lot.  He dosn''t win anything in the air and this is so fustraiting because he is a big, strong bloke but he dosn''t even attempt to win the ball.  He goes over so easily for a big bloke and this would be okay if he was winning free kick after free kick but he is not and all he is doing is losing us possesion.  He tries to be so clever but he just isn''t good enough to do these sorts of things (e.g. backing into a defender when a long ball is played to him) and he is a dream to play against in the air.  Also his first touch is absolutely shocking.  Theres all this talk of if he wasn''t in the team we wouldn''t have a target man but Holt isn''t a target man because everything a target man needs to do he is not very good at what so ever.  If Martin was in the team I actually don''t think we would lose any physical presence.

 

And finally all this work ethic stuff is a myth this season.  Last season fair enough because he did work his socks off but this season he really hasn''t and he has looked unfit and like he just dosn''t care.  Although I have to hand it to him because he did work hard yesterday in the second half but, that dosn''t make up for the rest of the season.

 

I''m not saying he needs to be completely dropped and his captaincy needs to go to someone else but he could do with a ''rest'' to give him a kick up the backside.