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Kathy

Football/politics/religion. Should they mix?

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Now there''s a can of worms....

Should religion be mixed with anything?

I suppose football gives a voice to people who''d normally never be heard. If that''s the average Celtic fan''s viewpoint on the poppies; fair enough. It''s strange as I still mostly associate poppies with the two world wars which Scotland were very much a part of.

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Anyone who looks at Irish/Catholic politics and learns of the atrocities inflicted on them by the British would understand.....We''ve stolen their land... brutalised their people.... created the potato famine.... divided their nation and imposed British law on a suppressed minority within their own island.They''ve got plenty to be unhappy about.... but at least they don''t have Delia Smith to rub salt into their wounds.

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NO!

In my opinion ALL forms of religion is b ollocks cause religion has caued more deaths and division amongst human beings than anything else and no one knows he truth about the origins of religion. We''re basically animals that have developed to be the most intelligent life form on this planet, nothing more! 

 

Without religin the world would have been a better place!

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Yep, Football/Politics/Religion are a great combo....McNally''s next capital investment is going to be in NCFC Social Democratic Mosque! I can''t wait to go.

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It''s a bunch of idiots from Glasgow, I don''t care what they have to say. Celtic are a club whose local derby is based around religious hatred. It''s just a bunch of hypocrites trying to make a statement that is false. They are trying to make out it''s only for English people when in fact the Scots voted for these wars, there are Scotsmen dying in these wars. Some of which are probably hoops fans.

Davo

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[quote user="grantroederdisaster"]

NO!

In my opinion ALL forms of religion is b ollocks cause religion has caued more deaths and division amongst human beings than anything else and no one knows he truth about the origins of religion. We''re basically animals that have developed to be the most intelligent life form on this planet, nothing more! 

 

Without religin the world would have been a better place!

[/quote]

 

True, but is is a convenient route for people to escape thoughts of their own mortality and therefore necessary. Football is an equivalent diversion. to a lesser extent.

 

For this reason alone it (religion) has a place in the development of mankind, although exploited magnifold as you suggest.

 

So sorry, but this is Sunday after all.

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[quote user="Cluckbert Chase"]Anyone who looks at Irish/Catholic politics and learns of the atrocities inflicted on them by the British would understand.....

We''ve stolen their land... brutalised their people.... created the potato famine.... divided their nation and imposed British law on a suppressed minority within their own island.

They''ve got plenty to be unhappy about.... but at least they don''t have Delia Smith to rub salt into their wounds.


[/quote]

Given your thoughts on what the Irish have had to endure then you should not be overly critical of having a single Catholic irritant in your life. Sounds fair, don''t you think? [:D]

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[quote user="Kathy"]

Thoughts?

[/quote]Maybe it''s the bigoted Celtic fans who should do the thinking?What an insult to the 250,000 Irish VOLUNTEERS who served in WW1 of whom for example more than 4,000 died at Gallipoli alone.Their twisted rewriting of history knows no limits.

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That should nail for ever the chances of Scottish teams and their bigoted supporters entering the Prem.  

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[quote user="Cluckbert Chase"]Anyone who looks at Irish/Catholic politics and learns of the atrocities inflicted on them by the British would understand.....

We''ve stolen their land... brutalised their people.... created the potato famine.... divided their nation and imposed British law on a suppressed minority within their own island.

They''ve got plenty to be unhappy about.... but at least they don''t have Delia Smith to rub salt into their wounds.


[/quote]

You''re entitled to your opinion Cluck, and I wouldn''t criticise you for it, but are you seriously thinking that these fouth and fifth generation Scottish Catholics are really thinking about imposed British Law when they watch their multi cultural Football Team play? Or perhaps it is all a little contrived?

Oh and by the way I think you''ll find the potato famine was "created" by an airborne fungus known as phytophthora infestans. I got that out of one of Delia''s cookbooks. It makes the chips soggy.

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Of course they should mix.  And like Paul Lambert, I am seeking a narrow coalition in the centre, without extremes on either the left or right wing.  I see myself as Andrew Crofts, our midfield general directing the team, with John Prescott as my Grant Holt-style target man.

 

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[quote user="Graham Paddons Beard"]

[quote user="Cluckbert Chase"]Anyone who looks at Irish/Catholic politics and learns of the atrocities inflicted on them by the British would understand.....

We''ve stolen their land... brutalised their people.... created the potato famine.... divided their nation and imposed British law on a suppressed minority within their own island.

They''ve got plenty to be unhappy about.... but at least they don''t have Delia Smith to rub salt into their wounds.


[/quote]

You''re entitled to your opinion Cluck, and I wouldn''t criticise you for it, but are you seriously thinking that these fouth and fifth generation Scottish Catholics are really thinking about imposed British Law when they watch their multi cultural Football Team play? Or perhaps it is all a little contrived?

Oh and by the way I think you''ll find the potato famine was "created" by an airborne fungus known as phytophthora infestans. I got that out of one of Delia''s cookbooks. It makes the chips soggy.

[/quote]

On your first point,the hatred of Britain is inbred into many Irish/Scottish catholics,no matter how many generations they are down the line.The sad part is that most of the ones dragging the hatred along have never been to Ireland or a catholic church in their lives.

On your second point,read up about the famine.It was pretty disgusting what was done to the Irish,to say the least!

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You''re entitled to your opinion Cluck, and I wouldn''t criticise you for it, but are you seriously thinking that these fouth and fifth generation Scottish Catholics are really thinking about imposed British Law when they watch their multi cultural Football Team play? Or perhaps it is all a little contrived?

Oh and by the way I think you''ll find the potato famine was "created" by an airborne fungus known as phytophthora infestans. I got that out of one of Delia''s cookbooks. It makes the chips soggy.

To the Catholic and Protestant faiths in Scotland and Ulster the Battle of the Boyne (1690) happened last week and William of Orange a recent interloper..... the Fenian uprising (1867) happened only yesterday. Memories are long in these places and wounds raw. I lived in Northern Ireland in the late 60s and went to school there for a year....and not being Christened either way I was the anti-Christ.  Religion dictates every part of their daily life and Irish history endlessly taught in schools.... but with two entirely different outcomes.Over the centuries the Catholics have been treated in a disgraceful manner by the British.... and this is why the Provos fought so bitterly.  There is no excuse for the mindless killings on either side.... but it has a solid foundation and is spawned by a deeply held resentment.As for the potato famine......read your history.  The British (in particular the Scots) raped the countyside of Ireland.... driving the indiginous population off their land. As the British then turned the stolen lands into producing grain for export to England.... the Irish were left to live on potatoes and nothing else.   When the potato blight struck... none of the grain grown in Ireland stayed in the country and so the people starved. The potato famine was caused by the greed of the new incomer English/Scots landowners and their corrupt lackies in Government. So in essence... the English created the famine.Anything else you need to know... just ask.  [Y]

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[quote user="Cluckbert Chase"]

You''re entitled to your opinion Cluck, and I wouldn''t criticise you for it, but are you seriously thinking that these fouth and fifth generation Scottish Catholics are really thinking about imposed British Law when they watch their multi cultural Football Team play? Or perhaps it is all a little contrived?

Oh and by the way I think you''ll find the potato famine was "created" by an airborne fungus known as phytophthora infestans. I got that out of one of Delia''s cookbooks. It makes the chips soggy.



To the Catholic and Protestant faiths in Scotland and Ulster the Battle of the Boyne (1690) happened last week and William of Orange a recent interloper..... the Fenian uprising (1867) happened only yesterday. Memories are long in these places and wounds raw. I lived in Northern Ireland in the late 60s and went to school there for a year....and not being Christened either way I was the anti-Christ.  Religion dictates every part of their daily life and Irish history endlessly taught in schools.... but with two entirely different outcomes.

Over the centuries the Catholics have been treated in a disgraceful manner by the British.... and this is why the Provos fought so bitterly.  There is no excuse for the mindless killings on either side.... but it has a solid foundation and is spawned by a deeply held resentment.

As for the potato famine......read your history.  The British (in particular the Scots) raped the countyside of Ireland.... driving the indiginous population off their land. As the British then turned the stolen lands into producing grain for export to England.... the Irish were left to live on potatoes and nothing else.   When the potato blight struck... none of the grain grown in Ireland stayed in the country and so the people starved. The potato famine was caused by the greed of the new incomer English/Scots landowners and their corrupt lackies in Government. So in essence... the English created the famine.

Anything else you need to know... just ask.  [Y]
[/quote]

Absolutely spot on, both in terms of historical fact and prevailing Irish sentiment.

The famine reduced the population of Ireland by over 20%. Over a million died and a similar number emigrated, while corrupt middleman continued to make money for absentee landlords given carte blanche by the farce that was the Royal Commission chaired by the Earl of Devon (and comprised entirely of landlords). It''s not easy to forget that sort of thing.

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[quote user="Cluckbert Chase"][/quote]Cluck, Belfast is a very different place 5 decades later (although certainly not completely different now, I will maintain.)Whether you intentionally or otherwise tarred loyalists and republicans with the same brush, I don''t know, but I would suggest that it is not the wisest of views to take. Whilst many of your generation may be in the wider margins of spectrum, many of the younger peoples of both sides of the divide are far less extreme in their views.We are very fortunate in this country (or at the very least in England) that our sports clubs do not mix with politics as much as in other countries. Fans of football and other sports in other countries particularly Eastern Europe do not have that pleasure, even though they might not see it that way. I feel pleasured that I can enjoy football for what it is, football. And despite what the external view of football in Scotland, I would guess there is a majority of fans that would subscribe to that view also.(Finally I will add that I''m not condoning the actions of the British Empire throughout history, the actions of our ancestors are quite frankly disgusting and I must admit that I feel some pride in that British history is not the only history I genetically possess.)

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Any political sentiment expressed by 50000 whisky addled unemployed heroin addicts has to be suspect.

Build a wall and stop sending them our taxes. Let them sort out their tribal squabbles amongst themselves. And don''t mention any results from ''League 5'' on English TV.

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The picture in the OP seems all the more ridiculous when you consider that Glasgow was bombed during WW2 !!!!!.

Anyway it is exactly this kind of bigotry that is the reason why I would never want the Auld Firm playing in England , they can keep their sectarionism up there, we really dont need them touring the football grounds of England chanting their anti-English, pro- IRA (in Celtic''s case) songs down here. I can think of a few grounds whose supporters wouldn''t react to favourably to that!.

England being a country where religion plays an extremely small part if any in this day and age, for many football IS their religion.  In Glasgow religion and sectarionism is the main agenda - the football is merely a sideshow.

 

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[quote user="Fellas"][quote user="Cluckbert Chase"][/quote]Cluck, Belfast is a very different place 5 decades later (although certainly not completely different now, I will maintain.)Whether you intentionally or otherwise tarred loyalists and republicans with the same brush, I don''t know, but I would suggest that it is not the wisest of views to take. Whilst many of your generation may be in the wider margins of spectrum, many of the younger peoples of both sides of the divide are far less extreme in their views.We are very fortunate in this country (or at the very least in England) that our sports clubs do not mix with politics as much as in other countries. Fans of football and other sports in other countries particularly Eastern Europe do not have that pleasure, even though they might not see it that way. I feel pleasured that I can enjoy football for what it is, football. And despite what the external view of football in Scotland, I would guess there is a majority of fans that would subscribe to that view also.(Finally I will add that I''m not condoning the actions of the British Empire throughout history, the actions of our ancestors are quite frankly disgusting and I must admit that I feel some pride in that British history is not the only history I genetically possess.)[/quote]

If by ''tarring'' you mean I think both parties are to blame for the hatred.... then yes I

do. Go along to a Linfield v Glentoran match and feel the vibe.... but the indiginous Irish never threw the first stone.... the Scottish and English Protestant incomers did that.I was there last July and if you think much has changed you''re mistaken. Papering over the public cracks may have taken place... but scratch the surface and the wounds are just as sore. Beatings and violence take place every day... but the media outside of Ulster doesn''t show it. Read the small print in the Belfast Telegraph if you want to read reality.I love the Irish both North and South.... but I recognise that most of what they have suffered for centuries is because of the land of my birth.  It makes me despair if I linger on it. I may treasure my homeland.... but I''m certainly not proud of what it has done historically.Shall we move onto the many other countries ''our great Empire'' has destroyed next?

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[quote user="Cluckbert Chase"]

If by ''tarring'' you mean I think both parties are to blame for the hatred.... then yes I

do. Go along to a Linfield v Glentoran match and feel the vibe.... but the indiginous Irish never threw the first stone.... the Scottish and English Protestant incomers did that.I was there last July and if you think much has changed you''re mistaken. Papering over the public cracks may have taken place... but scratch the surface and the wounds are just as sore. Beatings and violence take place every day... but the media outside of Ulster doesn''t show it. Read the small print in the Belfast Telegraph if you want to read reality.I love the Irish both North and South.... but I recognise that most of what they have suffered for centuries is because of the land of my birth.  It makes me despair if I linger on it. I may treasure my homeland.... but I''m certainly not proud of what it has done historically.Shall we move onto the many other countries ''our great Empire'' has destroyed next? [/quote]Well from my experiences of Belfast I believe you mistake the level of hatred that goes on in a large portion of the country. I''ve had the pleasure of meeting many many people from the county of Ulster and I have yet to met any of your hate filled people you refer to. Nor have I seen evidence of widespread public hatred that you refer to. I understand and am aware that violence still exists, but do I think your description of a violent, abhorrent place are not only inaccurate but also in a way disrespectful to the people of Northern Ireland who continue to lead the country towards peace.And there is no need to give me a patronising history lesson, my family and ancestors are direct victims of "our great empire".

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[quote user="Cluckbert Chase"]

You''re entitled to your opinion Cluck, and I wouldn''t criticise you for it, but are you seriously thinking that these fouth and fifth generation Scottish Catholics are really thinking about imposed British Law when they watch their multi cultural Football Team play? Or perhaps it is all a little contrived?

Oh and by the way I think you''ll find the potato famine was "created" by an airborne fungus known as phytophthora infestans. I got that out of one of Delia''s cookbooks. It makes the chips soggy.



To the Catholic and Protestant faiths in Scotland and Ulster the Battle of the Boyne (1690) happened last week and William of Orange a recent interloper..... the Fenian uprising (1867) happened only yesterday. Memories are long in these places and wounds raw. I lived in Northern Ireland in the late 60s and went to school there for a year....and not being Christened either way I was the anti-Christ.  Religion dictates every part of their daily life and Irish history endlessly taught in schools.... but with two entirely different outcomes.

Over the centuries the Catholics have been treated in a disgraceful manner by the British.... and this is why the Provos fought so bitterly.  There is no excuse for the mindless killings on either side.... but it has a solid foundation and is spawned by a deeply held resentment.

As for the potato famine......read your history.  The British (in particular the Scots) raped the countyside of Ireland.... driving the indiginous population off their land. As the British then turned the stolen lands into producing grain for export to England.... the Irish were left to live on potatoes and nothing else.   When the potato blight struck... none of the grain grown in Ireland stayed in the country and so the people starved. The potato famine was caused by the greed of the new incomer English/Scots landowners and their corrupt lackies in Government. So in essence... the English created the famine.

Anything else you need to know... just ask.  [Y]
[/quote]

 

Excellent stuff Cluck. God Bless Google.

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Excellent stuff Cluck. God Bless Google.

No Google sunshine... life experience.Some of us get out you know....

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[quote user="Fellas"][quote user="Cluckbert Chase"]

If by ''tarring'' you mean I think both parties are to blame for the hatred.... then yes I

do. Go along to a Linfield v Glentoran match and feel the vibe.... but the indiginous Irish never threw the first stone.... the Scottish and English Protestant incomers did that.I was there last July and if you think much has changed you''re mistaken. Papering over the public cracks may have taken place... but scratch the surface and the wounds are just as sore. Beatings and violence take place every day... but the media outside of Ulster doesn''t show it. Read the small print in the Belfast Telegraph if you want to read reality.I love the Irish both North and South.... but I recognise that most of what they have suffered for centuries is because of the land of my birth.  It makes me despair if I linger on it. I may treasure my homeland.... but I''m certainly not proud of what it has done historically.Shall we move onto the many other countries ''our great Empire'' has destroyed next? [/quote]Well from my experiences of Belfast I believe you mistake the level of hatred that goes on in a large portion of the country. I''ve had the pleasure of meeting many many people from the county of Ulster and I have yet to met any of your hate filled people you refer to. Nor have I seen evidence of widespread public hatred that you refer to. I understand and am aware that violence still exists, but do I think your description of a violent, abhorrent place are not only inaccurate but also in a way disrespectful to the people of Northern Ireland who continue to lead the country towards peace.And there is no need to give me a patronising history lesson, my family and ancestors are direct victims of "our great empire". [/quote]I''ve spoken to the Queen... but that doesn''t make me a Royal.Get over there and look for yourself. Hearsay is extremely misleading. 

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[quote user="Fellas"][quote user="Cluckbert Chase"]

[/quote]Been there. Boo hoo.[/quote]Didn''t know I was interacting with a 12 year old....Off to bed with you now.

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[quote user="Cluckbert Chase"][quote user="Fellas"][quote user="Cluckbert Chase"]

[/quote]Been there. Boo hoo.[/quote]Didn''t know I was interacting with a 12 year old....Off to bed with you now.[/quote]Takes one to know one!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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