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First Wizard

The Gag Comes Off!.

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At last, after my self enforced silence on the board''s performance (see, I can keep a promise YC!) I''ll now have my say. But is my glass half full or half empty?, I''m just not sure.

Yes, to get Ashton, obliterating our transfer record in the process, was totally outstanding, and the board cannot be faulted for backing the manager and fans. And I applaud them loudly for that.

But is it enough?.

I''ll leave Stuart out of my thoughts (short term fix?), that would not be fair to him. But I was hoping for at least two more quality loan signings to be added to our squad. One up front, and one to partner or replace Fleming (sorry). Bents is not going to contribute much more now this season, is he?.

That''s why I said half full, half empty.

I cannot accept that two more quality loan players, would have broken this club financially. Not with what''s at stake here, I just can''t, sorry.

So yes, I giveth and taketh away. Time will tell who''s right or wrong, I pray I''m wrong!.

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I agree totally Wiz. Ashton was a MAJOR signing and Stuart will be good for us too, but we need defenders and another loan (or two) would have helped us, I''m sure of it.Let''s hope what we have done is enough.

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I also agree, a defender was an absolute MUST. Ashton was a great coup, although, I''m not convinced by the signing of Stuart, but I''ll reserve judgement until I''ve seen him play.

Sorry for stealing your old signature Wiz but I thought I''d give it a Worthy Nigelton twist...

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Wiz, I''m not sure that it was finances which dictated whether we brought anyone in on loan personally - there are so many variables in trying to get the right players in, that I believe we have probably tried and failed to do just that.  For example, first you have to find a player who is significantly better than we already have, is not a regular for their current club but is near to match fitness, then the club have to want to let them go out on loan.  THEN the player has to want to come and join a relegation battle.  Plus there is the fact of uprooting themselves for 3 and a half months and having to live out of a hotel etc - it''s not like we have half a dozen other clubs on our doorstep so that players wouldn''t have to move, is it?  I find it hard to think of more than 3 or 4 players who fit the bill in the first place, without factoring in the other things.  How many defenders went out on loan, for example?  Unsworth, yes - significantly better than we already have?  Not in my opinion, and I have seen him play quite a lot over the last few years.

I''m not criticising you for your view, just trying to put another side across.  Personally, I''m happy.  Not ecstatic, that would have needed another two players in (defender and striker), but happy.

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[quote]I agree totally Wiz. Ashton was a MAJOR signing and Stuart will be good for us too, but we need defenders and another loan (or two) would have helped us, I''m sure of it.Let''s hope what we have done is...[/quote]

I suppose Bananaman, some poster''s will say we''re ungrateful, but of course you and I, know different.

I know from following the various debate''s on here the last month, that other''s feel like us.

Let us hope that Worthy has a plan in place eh?.

And although I said ''Yes'' to City Angel''s thread, ''will we stay up''. I''m now getting worried again!. 

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I agree with you too Wiz. Ashton and Stuart are great signings, but the defence of late has been a complete shambles and the loan signing of some defensive cover was a must. Letting the Binners get Unsworth could prove costly.

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Wiz, I''ll agree with you as well. Ashton was a great signing for me. He has already shown that the Premiership stage doesn''t frighten him and will only get better as he continues to adjust to the higher pace of the game.

I''ll reserve judgement on Stuart. I''m not sure the club needed another 30-something player in the middle of the park even if he does bring a load of Premiership experience to the club.

At the back, I have posted elsewhere that the defence needs a look at but it''s not clear to me that they needed to bring someone in. Contrary to Worthy Nigelton''s comments elsewhere, if the alternative to your current dubious centre half is Shackell, then I say give the guy a chance.

However, look at what they have at the back (without injuries) and tell me which of these players still deserves to be there.

Left back 1 from: Drury or Charlton
Right back 1 from: Edworthy, Fleming or Helveg
Centre back 2 from: Doherty, Fleming, Charlton, Helveg, Shackell

I think what they miss is an organising player at the back. Malky was always that player in previous years. They don''t have that anymore. Instead you end up with centre backs pointing fingers at other players to apportion blame. Now either Worthy needed to bring someone in from outside that could fill that void, or someone in the 2 from 5 line needs to take the responsibility for organising the defence. Fleming is captain isn''t he, yet he doesn''t seem to take control of the back four.

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[quote]I agree with you too Wiz. Ashton and Stuart are great signings, but the defence of late has been a complete shambles and the loan signing of some defensive cover was a must. Letting the Binners get Un...[/quote]

I FEEL WHAT EVER THE BOARD AND NIGEL TRY AND DO FOR THE CLUB YOU WILL STILL GET THE MOANERS .AND WHY LETTING UNSWORTH GOING TO BINNERS BE COSTLY?

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[quote]I also agree, a defender was an absolute MUST. Ashton was a great coup, although, I''m not convinced by the signing of Stuart, but I''ll reserve judgement until I''ve seen him play. Sorry for stealing y...[/quote]

Worthy Nigelton: I actually thought your message signature was better than mine mate. It gave me a good laugh anyway. I''ve now changed mine, yet again!.

Marmite: Well, at least we''re thinking on the same lines, I was also upset when Unsworth went to ''them'', a bad mistake I fear.

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I think you''re exactly right Wiz.  The signing of deano stunned most people i think.  It was a massive coup of the club.  However, I think signing such a great player and spending so much money so early on in the month, upped the expectency levels.  If you had told me that after signing Deano we would only get Graham Stuart in, i would be lying if I said I wasn''t disappointed.

I feel (like you) that two more loan signings wouldn''t have broken the bank and would have been within our reach.  However, now it''s February 1st (my birthday btw! ) we need to look forward not back.  We could go on for months on what ifs and maybe''s but we can''t afford to do this.  We have potentially the hardest couple of months ahead of us which we have experienced for several years.  We need to back the lads and back the management.

And let me say one more time; We will stay up

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[quote]I FEEL WHAT EVER THE BOARD AND NIGEL TRY AND DO FOR THE CLUB YOU WILL STILL GET THE MOANERS .AND WHY LETTING UNSWORTH GOING TO BINNERS BE COSTLY?[/quote]

I don''t believe any of us have actually moaned sire. Questioned yes, moaned no.

In fact, so far, poster''s have praised the board for getting Ashton, I know I have!.

Unsworth''s superb credentials, answer''s your own question  about him I think.

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Sorry King of Latvia, but whatever you say, the defence is an absolute mess.

There''s no denying it, look at the statistics.

Something needs to be done, I just hope NW is doing it on the training ground if he can''t do it in the transfer window.

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Seriously people, missing out on Unsworth is no great shakes - as I mentioned previously, I have seen him play quite a bit at close quarters over the past three or four seasons, and he really wouldn''t add anything to our back line than we already have.  As a left back, he is no better than either Drury, Brennan or Charlton, and as a centre back he is certainly no better than either Charlie or Doc - I would say he is on a par with Fleming.  Possibly the only thing he would add is his set-piece ability.  If he were that good, Pompey wouldn''t be letting him out to a lower league club, would they?

Yes, I agree we needed to add to the back line and I am disappointed that we haven''t, but there we go.  At full strength, I still believe we are good enough to survive.

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Worthington MUST be considering starting Helveg (when hes fit) and Shackell vs Everton, surely!? If not, it''s a disgrace not to bring ANY defenders in.
I do however fear the only change will be Charlton > Drury. Worthington made Flem team captain - thats making a statement.

Helveg-Shacks-Doc-Charlton isn''t so bad.

But yes, a big pat on the back over the Ashton signing, and I do think Stuart will prove to be a good buy.

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[quote]Seriously people, missing out on Unsworth is no great shakes - as I mentioned previously, I have seen him play quite a bit at close quarters over the past three or four seasons, and he really wouldn''t...[/quote]

The only thing I would take issue with you Temps my friend, is that Unsworth is no better than the Doc.

IMO, Unsworth is a far better player than him, sorry.

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You appear to have missed the point again 1st Wizard...

The board have done an amazing job to secure the services of Dean Ashton, and to a lesser extent a good, experienced and versatile pro in Graham Stuart.

Just who exactly were you expecting us to get in on loan? Sorry to tell you, but we''re not in the same financial bracket as about 18 other clubs in this league. I would have loved to sign some of the players that have moved on loan during this window, but we have to accept that there are better options than us available to players. Spending £3m straight-up for Ashton is, I''m sure you''ll agree, very hefty. Also, do not forget we''re paying out 8k a week on a player who isn''t going to play again until late April. We have to draw the line at spending money on transfer fees/wages/agents fees somewhere...I''m very happy with our (realistic) transfer activity during the window, as should every fan with a brain.

It was quite obvious that the defence was not going to be strengthened...

The Defence

Fleming: Newly appointed captain, was never going to be replaced

Doherty: Playing well at centre back, would be wrong to replace him just when he''s settling in

Charlton: Good Premiership left back. Can also play centre back

Edworthy: Not good enough in my opinion, but plenty of effort and desire

Drury: Short generally at this level, but on his day he is competent in the Prem

Helveg: Better right back than Edworthy, and as he showed against Liverpool, good enough for this league. Can also play centre back

Shackell: Should have been given a chance at the start of the season; I''d have no qualms playing him at the back should Flem/Doc get injured.

When you break it down, we were never going to sign a defender...even if we tried, who would want to go out on loan to a relegation scrapping club just to sit on the bench?

I for one, applaud the board in their efforts and look forward to the future of our club...the next 5 years look very promising. Knowing Norwich City Football Club, we''ll do it the hard way, but we will also do it the right way...

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No, trust me Wiz, he really ISN''T any better than the Doc - most Evertonians were glad to see the back of him, as he was deemed a liability at Goodison, hence the reason they didn''t try very hard to hold on to him in the summer.  The thing with the Doc is that he is only 24 and will get better - Unsworth is the wrong side of 30 now, and seems to be getting worse and worse - he is slow, has poor positional sense and only knows one ball out of defence - the long punt upfield that always looked for Campbell or Ferguson.  Lord knows we have enough players who can do that already!

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Campbell- I like your optimism shown in your assessment of our defence, but if they are so competent then why do we look like conceding every time the opposition get close to our penalty area?

I know you will all laugh, but why did we let Malks go if we are prepared to get a 34 year old on loan to help the midfield? Surely Malky, with that superb understanding with Flem, the strength in the air and the danger at set pieces would have been worth retaining? Read Iwan Roberts'' book and you will realise how important he was to the team spirit too.

I was delighted by the acquisition of Deano but amazed that we haven''t done anything at the back. If anything does send us down it will be the failure to strengthen the defence. I just hope that Nigel knows something we don''t.

I sincerely hope that Stuart is determined to put on a show for the Everton fans tonight.

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Although i agree totally that our defending (not our defence) is a shambles, I really can''t understand why people cannot get in into their heads that there are very few decent loan players avaliable. The only 2 players who went out on loan on monday were Bellamy and the lad Candela to Bolton. Worthy knows its not worth bringing in players for the sake of it, and with Charlton and Helveg returning shortly, why bother.

The one thing i''m interested is why bring in Stuart now when Safri, Holt, and Helveg are all near full-fitness, compared to a month ago when we had no-one??

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[quote]Campbell- I like your optimism shown in your assessment of our defence, but if they are so competent then why do we look like conceding every time the opposition get close to our penalty area? I know...[/quote]

I never said all of our defenders were good enough for this level, I think only Charlton, Helveg and Doherty can do a decent job, but I still don''t think we were ever looking for a defender for the reasons I gave in my above post.

Also, there is more to keeping clean sheets than simply the defence...if Chelsea''s back line had the lack of protection that ours does, they would have conceded a lot more than 8 goals. The shape of our midfield isn''t atuned to Premiership football yet; we seem to allow the opposition to have the ball for as long as they want, and in the First Division that was ok because we''d get it back fairly soon, in the Premiership however, the players will keep it and hurt you.

However, I am very optimistic for the future, as you all should be!

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The defence is clearly the worst in the league the statistics prove that , and that is with having one of the best keepers between the sticks . The fact that Middlesboro went to sleep in the last 5 mins clouds over the fact that they had put 4 past us on our own ground , and that with them being out of form and only having beat us of late. We wont win games if we are letting in 2-3-4 every game , the defence should have been strengthened.

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[quote]Although i agree totally that our defending (not our defence) is a shambles, I really can''t understand why people cannot get in into their heads that there are very few decent loan players avaliable. ...[/quote]

People seem to forget that for the first 3 months, our defence was spot on. Then we unfortunatly got an injury to Charlie and Doc replaced him. Drury has had a loss of form since, and Helveg has been (strangely) missing.

Holt, too, was a big blow to the defence. When tracking back, Holt was always there as reinforcement for our defence, and it turned our four man defence into a five man one.

Get these three players back, and I assure you our defence will be transformed.

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I''m all for everyone being optimistic but we are second from bottom with the worst defence in the league, we have visits from Chelsea and Manure, trips to Palace, Soton and Arsenal. I am concentrating on not finishing bottom, at this stage with the squad we have would be an achievement in itself.

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Our last clean sheet was Oct 16th!! That says it all. I agree with Campbell though- I think that our central midfield makes life more difficult for our defence with little protection out wide from Bentley and Hux and only Damo in midfield able to get the tackles in (and even Damo for all his skill still goes AWOL from time to time). With the signing of Stuart we should be stronger in the middle and if we move Hux up front Brennan and Jonson would give more physical presence on the flanks.

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[quote]You appear to have missed the point again 1st Wizard... The board have done an amazing job to secure the services of Dean Ashton, and to a lesser extent a good, experienced and versatile pro in Graha...[/quote]

I''ve missed the point Campbell?. If that is the case, then you have lost touch with reality pal!.

As other''s have said, we have the worst defence in the league, and are now joint bottom this morning. And then you have the nerve to say, you''re happy with our transfer dealings in this window, and you didn''t expect any defenders to come in, brainless or what!.

And why pray, should we not have expected two quality defenders on loan?, bankrupting the club?, I don''t believe it would have, especially with what''s at stake. I didn''t expect Sol Campbell you know!.

City not attractive to them?, Ashton signing, blows your theory right out of the water!. He knew he could be back in the championship next season if he joined us, at least players on loan can return to their clubs.

Sometimes, your dislike of my posts reaches childlike proportions and clouds your thoughts, you ignore as usual, other matters I raise in them. Like my praise of the board (check it!) regarding Ashton.

I''ll agree that our immediate future (5 years ahead, is too far to predict) does look ok, even if we are relegated. But that''s only applies if we keep most of the side we have got now, minus Greeno and Francis maybe.

Any upset, Worthy sacked or we can''t get promoted etc, and your rosy little world will come crashing down around you mate!.

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[quote]I''ve missed the point Campbell?. If that is the case, then you have lost touch with reality pal!. As other''s have said, we have the worst defence in the league, and are now joint bottom this morning...[/quote]

An unattractive proposition for loan players?? YES

Look at it from a players point of view, they would have to stay in a hotel hundreds of miles from home playing for a team you they have no great affection for. Nigel Worthington is the least charismatic of all the Premiership managers and it is not hard to see why we cannot attract loan players. It is easy for you Wiz to say get a couple of loan players in but it is nothing to do with the funds available we are just have no pulling power.

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Wiz, you raise some very good points, but I still believe you are choosing to ignore the fact that coming to City on loan may actually NOT be attractive to the type of player we needed to significantly improve the squad.  Living in a hotel for 3-4 months, away from your family, is not an attractive proposition, not when you can stay where you are and earn the same money.......or, in the case of Richardson, can go to a club that is within daily travelling distance instead. (I''m not saying that''s why he went to WBA, we may not have ever been serious about him anyway, and I''m not disappointed we don''t have him).  There are far too many variables to criticise our failure to bring anyone in without knowing the facts behind how hard we actually tried - for all we know, Worthy may have been working his b***s off trying to get the right players, but with no success.  However, if it turns out you ARE right, and we didn''t try because of financial reasons, your views have my full support.

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[quote]An unattractive proposition for loan players?? YES Look at it from a players point of view, they would have to stay in a hotel hundreds of miles from home playing for a team you they have no great a...[/quote]

No pulling power eh?.

Sorry Smudge, but as I said to Campbell, why did the most sought after young striker in the Championship (Leading scorer) ignore other Premiership teams to come here?.

If you can honestly answer that, then you''re a better wizard than me my friend!.

PS. Bentley and Stuart (also Hucks and Crouch when first here on a 3 month loan) use a hotel, as well you know.

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[quote]I''ve missed the point Campbell?. If that is the case, then you have lost touch with reality pal!. As other''s have said, we have the worst defence in the league, and are now joint bottom this morning...[/quote]

Enjoyed your long delayed post Wiz.

However I feel sure money was not what prevented us getting loan players.

Probably reluctance to come to a relegation threatened club was a factor as a lot of loanees come to put themselves in the shop window for a possible future contract.

Or even was there any available ?

Apart from Unsworth, none immediately come to mind that we "missed out" on, and if we were interested in him then he had the choice of top of fizzy or bottom of Premier.

Whatever the reason I think Worthy would have got someone if he could have, so we just have to trust in what he''s done and hope that Deano is, if not the Messiah, then at least a knight in shining armour come to save us !

I M V H O

 

 

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