So Ipswich/Norwich

[ca 1]

[quote user="bluemike"][quote user="blahblahblah"][quote user="bluemike"]With what is at stake it would undoubtedly be bigger.
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It''s only money [:)]
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True but we could certainly do with it !!
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Thought you had a rich backer to give you millions ? [:D]

[Boyo 0]

Sorry for my first post!  It''s not often we are above Ipswich so I thought I would make the most of it!  Sorry[:)]

Anyway, onto the topic.  At first when everyone was talking about play offs for us I thought that was very, very ambitious but, ten games into the season I think we are very capable of making the play offs.  Ipswich I havn''t seen play so can''t really pass my judgement but you seem to have a pretty good team that is capable of getting to the play offs.

I would love a Norwich v Ipswich play off semi final but, only if the second leg was at Carrow Road and we won! [:D]

And I don''t really understand why some people don''t want us to go up!?  It''s the Premiership for goodness sake!  Just because we get promoted dosn''t necessarily mean that we will come straight back down or be like Wigan.

[William Darby 0]

I''d love it if we stuffed them in the final

[bluemike 0]

[quote user="cityangel"]

[quote user="bluemike"][quote user="blahblahblah"][quote user="bluemike"]With what is at stake it would undoubtedly be bigger. [/quote]It''s only money [:)][/quote]True but we could certainly do with it !![/quote]

 

Thought you had a rich backer to give you millions ? [:D]

[/quote]He has already but there may come a time he sails into the sunset, nothing is forever, so yes the money from promotion would be most welcome.

[Bill 1,788]

"Thought you had a rich backer to give you millions ?"

Loaened, I think you''find is the word CA, loaned.

Thta''s why the paupers are being charged interest of 7% on the £8m shares - and interest on £25m a debt that only cost Evans only £6 or £8m ! Nice work if you can get it.

Lets hope no kids in suffolk get ''given'' their Xmas presents on the same terms

As to a playoff semi final between us, I''m not too sure if the binners could cope with two full houses at poorman rd in the same season. There''d be people there who hadn''t been since 2002.

As to there being a play off final at Wembley how would plod cope then ? Play the game at 11.30am. Divide Liverpool Street in half ? Or maybe tell Norfolk and Suffolk police to sod off and just let everyone get on with it.

The ''firms'', faces'' and other assorted numpties from each side could be allowed a mass brawl on the pitch before the game, with any still standing having another go at half time. Be far more entertaining than any cheerleaders hoping about or marching bands. And who knows, a few mortalities would be natures way of improving the gene pool.

[bluemike 0]

[quote user="City1st"]"Thought you had a rich backer to give you millions ?"

Loaened, I think you''find is the word CA, loaned.

Thta''s why the paupers are being charged interest of 7% on the £8m shares - and interest on £25m a debt that only cost Evans only £6 or £8m ! Nice work if you can get it.

Lets hope no kids in suffolk get ''given'' their Xmas presents on the same terms

As to a playoff semi final between us, I''m not too sure if the binners could cope with two full houses at poorman rd in the same season. There''d be people there who hadn''t been since 2002.

As to there being a play off final at Wembley how would plod cope then ? Play the game at 11.30am. Divide Liverpool Street in half ? Or maybe tell Norfolk and Suffolk police to sod off and just let everyone get on with it.

The ''firms'', faces'' and other assorted numpties from each side could be allowed a mass brawl on the pitch before the game, with any still standing having another go at half time. Be far more entertaining than any cheerleaders hoping about or marching bands. And who knows, a few mortalities would be natures way of improving the gene pool.[/quote]Your usual intellectual post I see, just a shame you show yourself up so frequently, its pleasing to know there are some decent fans on here that are actually prepared to have a chat with a rival fan, i guess there has to be a raving nutter on every forum. it really is quite unhealthy the amount of time you spill info about ITFC out of your mouth so to speak, as for turning a perfectly decent thread into something about mortalities really does say it all.

[Mike 0]

Sorry but I hope we get six points & you go bust, get relegated etc. All this "wouldn''t it be good if we both went up" rubbish!!!! And before you call me a moron or an idiot, football is the one place I practice complete and utter bias & ignore ratinal logical thought! It''s what following a club and having rivals means! So you are entitled to your views, as is City1st & myself. I suggest if you don''t like them you stick to a board that won''t challenge your view point such as TWTD.

 

 

[Bill 1,788]

Well binboy it''s nice to see that you finally accept that it is info. Previously there were endless squeaks of outrage from you and other binners when anything about your club''s pllght was posted up.

That''s may be due to me ''spilling things from my mouth''., perhaps. No harm in fans being fully informed, more so given the events going on at Liverpool.

As to the mortalities stuff if you didn''t have your head so far up your own backside as the rest of your lot have "Ooooh look at us, the mighty two, aren''t we special" you might have twigged that advocating fighting on the pitch was rather tongue in cheek.

Likewise with the suppposed decent thread. This from a binner who cluttered up this board with piles of gloating binman sh1te when we were in Div 1 - so forgive me for having a joke when the boot is on the other foot.

So perhaps you should head off to somewhere nice and quiet where there is no passion or humour - poorman road, maybe

.

[bluemike 0]

If only you were fully informed, whilst your unhealthy lust for all things ITFC takes you over, you seem to conveniently "forget" or "ignore" the fact you must be approaching 30 million of debt yourselves, hardly a drop in the ocean is it ? As for the boot being on the other foot, just how is that exactly, we hardly look like we are going into the lower reaches of league football as you did. Ive met some really nice, decent Norwich fans who have become friends last couple of years, hence my reason for looking on your forum, good to have good banter with them, just a shame some cant see it that way.

[nutty nigel 7,509]

[quote user="bluemike"]If only you were fully informed, whilst your unhealthy lust for all things ITFC takes you over, you seem to conveniently "forget" or "ignore" the fact you must be approaching 30 million of debt yourselves, hardly a drop in the ocean is it ? As for the boot being on the other foot, just how is that exactly, we hardly look like we are going into the lower reaches of league football as you did. Ive met some really nice, decent Norwich fans who have become friends last couple of years, hence my reason for looking on your forum, good to have good banter with them, just a shame some cant see it that way.
[/quote]

We have our debt and it''s a bit of a millstone I''m afaid bluemike. But as we always do we shall have to sort it out ourselves. The reality is that unless you cheat local businesses, or indeed bite the hand that feeds you, debt has to be paid off. Now because we are a proper football club we shall have to pay our debts in full and any investors will have to invest into our club and pay those debts in full. Because we are a proper football club we have assets that are pretty much equal to our debts. So the banks will hold on to those debts for as long as possible knowing we are a good honest club and they will get their payments until the debt is paid. They even made it easier for us last season because, well let''s just say, because we are worth it.

But in your case it was different. With you having already pulled the plug once in the decade Norwich Union knew there was no chance of recouping their money from your grubby little club. So they baled out and sold the debt cheap to get shot of you. Unfortunately for you the debt didn''t go away. Your arms dealing sugar daddy brought it cheap but you still owe him the full amount. Your dreams are built on sand and woe betide you when the tide comes in.

 

[bluemike 0]

You can never say never Nigel, if liverpool can go into Admin, anyone can. lets be honest you were very close to it not long ago and fair play to your club for not going the final yard. Of course no-one at ITFC is proud of the fact we went into Admin and yes local companies did lose out, this is life im afraid, its not nice but it happens. The people running our club now can hardly be held accountable for the poor errors of others a few years back. As for Marcus Evans being a arms dealer, who knows, but its hardly relevent is it, and I know for a fact a lot of Norwich fans would have welcomed him if he had chose to buy your club instead of ours, thats just the way it is, and of course we would have mocked him just as you do. Yes we do owe ME the amount in full, BUT  the debt is only repayable IF we gain promotion to the prem (this is how I understand it) and as the prize for promotion currently sits around the 70-80 million mark we really arent in debt are we ? of course that is a pretty simplistic way of looking at it but that is how it is I believe. I hope in about 100 years time people will have long forgotten that ITFC went into Admin, lets face it most of the footballing world have long forgotten that NCFC did.

[blahblahblah 2]

[quote] As for Marcus Evans being a arms dealer, who knows, but its hardly relevent is it,[/quote]Well, that''s the thing you see, it kind of is - the character of the chairman of a club can have a massive impact on the team you watch.  When a club is massively in hock to a single person, such as Simon Jordan at Palace, or two people even, such as Hicks and Gillette, or even our Deals and Mikey, you are pretty much reliant upon the character of that person / those people to be altruistic.  There are 2 types of football club owners as far as I can see, those spending retirement money as a hobby, and those who seek to make money.  In other words, rich idiots who don''t mind losing some money at the table, and deluded idiots who think that they can beat the house.  Usually you are either the first, or both of these things if you are a football club chairman in the top 2 flights.Which of those types is your owner ?  Given what little you know about him, can you accurately say one way or the other ?

[PurpleCanary 5,554]

[quote user="blahblahblah"][quote] As for Marcus Evans being a arms dealer, who knows, but its hardly relevent is it,[/quote]Well, that''s the thing you see, it kind of is - the character of the chairman of a club can have a massive impact on the team you watch.  When a club is massively in hock to a single person, such as Simon Jordan at Palace, or two people even, such as Hicks and Gillette, or even our Deals and Mikey, you are pretty much reliant upon the character of that person / those people to be altruistic.  There are 2 types of football club owners as far as I can see, those spending retirement money as a hobby, and those who seek to make money.  In other words, rich idiots who don''t mind losing some money at the table, and deluded idiots who think that they can beat the house.  Usually you are either the first, or both of these things if you are a football club chairman in the top 2 flights.Which of those types is your owner ?  Given what little you know about him, can you accurately say one way or the other ?[/quote]blah, I''m not arguing against your point, but we are not massively in debt to Smith and Jones. At the last count less than one-tenth of our debt was owed to them.

[nutty nigel 7,509]

[quote user="bluemike"] As for Marcus Evans being a arms dealer, who knows, but its hardly relevent is it, and I know for a fact a lot of Norwich fans would have welcomed him if he had chose to buy your club instead of ours, thats just the way it is, and of course we would have mocked him just as you do. Yes we do owe ME the amount in full, BUT  the debt is only repayable IF we gain promotion to the prem (this is how I understand it) and as the prize for promotion currently sits around the 70-80 million mark we really arent in debt are we ?[/quote]

Now yes you are right bluemike. Many Norwich fans were jealous of you when Evans came in and many of them post on here. To their eternal shame they openly said they would swap your set up for ours under the cook and her cohorts. But they just saw the money figures not the truth. But what Evans did was buy your debt. And whether that matters or not rather depends on what the repayment terms are. You see the wicked cook and her cohorts are owed money by our club and I believe that debt is payable on promotion to the Premier League but meanwhile it''s an interest free loan. So don''t let those jealous Norwich fans confuse you. We have nothing to be jealous of.

 

[nutty nigel 7,509]

Oh.. and as for Liverpool, I doubt if I''d be alone in being happy if both the binners and bindippers disappeared......

[:|]

 

[blahblahblah 2]

Indeed PC, somewhat undermined my own point there [:)].  Hmm, now that you mention it, doesn''t that put us in an even stronger position than Ipswich ? [:)]

[PurpleCanary 5,554]

[quote user="blahblahblah"]Indeed PC, somewhat undermined my own point there [:)].  Hmm, now that you mention it, doesn''t that put us in an even stronger position than Ipswich ? [:)][/quote]---Yes, blah, you hit yourself with a bit of friendly fire![:D][;)][:D]More

seriously, as to which situation is better, that greatly depends, as you

indicated, on the motivation of the owner, and whether they care about getting

back money they''ve loaned.I''ve never studied Ipswich''s position (so can

only go on what other posters say it is) but IF Evans is an altruist who has

written that money off then that''s good for them. If he''s going to want it back,

that''s not so good.What one can say with certainty about Norwich is that

the banks - to whom the majority of debt is owed  - WILL want their money back.

I have always assumed that Smith and Jones have never expected to get their

money back but then what they are owed is comparitively small, both as a

percentage of the debt and as an amount. in itself.

[Bill 1,788]

"The people running our club now can hardly be held accountable for the poor errors of others a few years back"

By that token then your fans should not claim allegiance to success achieved by ''others a few years back'' either.

"chose to buy your club instead of ours"

Rather like a bank choosing to buy next door''s house rather than repossess the one that has defaulted on it''s mortgage I suppose ! You were pretty much potless, that''s why Evans paid less than £4m for you club. He picked it up as others pick up repo''ed houses at auction - simply to make a fast buck out of it.

"BUT the debt is only repayable IF we gain promotion to the prem"

ABSOLUTE TWADDLE. What is repayable is the £8.1m, LENT as preference shares - whichwhose repayment terms are as stated " in the event of the club having remained in the Premiership for a continuous five year period''. That five uear does not apply to the £25m bought from Norwich Union. MEI cannot sell the that debt alone, it has to be bundled up with the club.

However MEI can sell your club at anytime and although the above £8.1m would be cancelled, that cancellation would then increase the clubs value by the same amount. MEI can also take payments at anytine - which it would seem they doing now, hence player sales and budget cutbacks this summer.

"we really arent in debt are we ?"

Your last accounts state that you have £35m of interest bearing debt, plus more that is not accruing interest. The suggestion that it will be above £40m when you next accounts come out. So you are in debt, quite seriously. If Evans was not trying to squeeze you then why would he be charging you debt on £25m when it only cost £6/8m ?

The danger is that MEI will simply transfer any assets of any worth into MEI control as part payment for those debts and then flog off the rest to someone else who may want to see what they can sqeeze out of you. If you think it can''t happen then take a good look around you and see what is happening elsewhere.

Is this likely ? Yes, more so as events unfold. The summer sales, whereby money was not re-used for player sales. The open admittance that moe sales will follow in January suggest that, rather than any foolish ideas on promotion.

Sadly with the almost unbelievable level of ignorance shown by most of your fans there is still this delusion that Evans can''t sell for 5 years, he wants promotion etc.

Why not simply read the evidence here -

http://www.itfc.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10272~1181533,00.html

and then recognise that the paupers going into administration was not as claimed "this is life im afraid" but a cynical case of deceit that amounted to fraught. Put simply Sheepshanks lied at the club''s AGM, stating that the club had no money worries and was financially sound - two months later it went bankrupt.

If fans chose to delude themselves and not bother to ask questions, then they have little cause to complain afterwards.

[ca 1]

Only 6 weeks to the ''''derby game'''' now, can''t wait to see CR full to the brim for this one.