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Will Norwich ever be an established premier league club ?

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I hate to say this but with the gap getting ever bigger between the established premier teams and those coming up do you think we will ever crack this division and have a prolonged stay, because at the moment i fear that the gap is almost too big to bridge as has been proved this season as we struggle to buy quailty players to match those we are up against , and the problem is if we do go down we will more than likely lose our better players and have to rebuild our sqaud again and so the vicious circle goes on .

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(puts head over parapet and prepares to be shot down.......)

Does it really matter either way?  After all, if we become an established Premiership side, what do we have to look forward to every season?  Reaching 40 points to ensure safety?  The occasional glimpse of finishing in the top 6 to qualify for the now second rate UEFA cup?  The forlorn hope of a cup run to keep some interest in the season?  Don''t get me wrong, of course that''s what I want, but no-one can argue that the last four seasons have been boring - remember Cardiff, and the euphoria last May when we won the title?  And now we have the nervous anxiety of trying to finish 17th this season.  It''s times like these that make me glad to be a City fan - life is never dull!

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Absolutely spot on Templeton, these have been really exciting times for the club and us fans. long may it continue

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Lets face it Roman Abramovich has spoilt it for everyone.  His dodgy money has meant that the days of Norwich being able to compete at this level are over.  The best we can hope for is to cling onto 17th place, but to be honest I''d rather see them flourishing in Div 1 than see them struggling in the Premiership.  Far more enjoyable for everyone.

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[quote]Lets face it Roman Abramovich has spoilt it for everyone. His dodgy money has meant that the days of Norwich being able to compete at this level are over. The best we can hope for is to cling onto 1...[/quote]

What a glum lot you are!

 

Someone posted a few weeks ago that there is a danger that the boys out on the pitch hang their heads and give up when we go one down.  Reminds me a bit of this whole board lately...

 

Templeton: You put your head out over the parapet because you knew it could be shot down.  Sorry if I''m taking aim with me quiver, but shame on you sir, for suggesting that it ''doesn''t matter'' if we stay up or go down!!!

Robert Rosario: And even greater shame on you, knave,  for blurting that you would rather watch NCFC in Division 1!! Are you mad?

Oh yeah, and by the way, I think that watching Chelsea at the moment is a bit like watching footy from heaven.  Don''t like em, never have, but man they play dream football.  I am proud to even be in the same league as them.

barclayendboy: In response to your original question, then yes, of course I think that we will establish ourselves again in this league.  Trust in Worthy for We are not Worthy.  And trust in the board too, for what it''s worth - even with all their Prudence with Ambition tripe...

Bring on the n

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Nottingham Forest, Leeds, Sheff Wed, West Ham. These were all established Prem clubs but look at them now.

I think that if we go down we will be in a strong position to come back up. When we are back up the Club (board, managerect) will in a lot better position to survive as they will know what to expect.

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Good speech Flick Fleck.

Personally, I am still positive, confident, and loving the pressure. Fantastic.

Do I care if we go down? Well of course I will be disappointed, but I will still be there next year, rain or shine.

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Turn to the Yellow Side: Agree wholeheartedly with your summary, except to point out the obvious fact that We aint down yet!!

PS - did you really mean to sneak the word ''erect'' into your post?  Is that Freudian?

 

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[quote]Turn to the Yellow Side: Agree wholeheartedly with your summary, except to point out the obvious fact that We aint down yet!! PS - did you really mean to sneak the word ''erect'' into your post? ...[/quote]

  Maybe my admiration for Worthy runs deeper than I thought.... very disturbing.

ps I did say if (almost typed when though)

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Flick Fleck, what dream football is that? as far as I can see Chelsea play very efficient football but I''ve seen better. They have spent an obscene amount of money on a team and manager and have had more than their fair share of luck this season, I therefore do not feel proud to be in the same league. I think on their day Arsenal are better to watch. As for mocking those who state that being in Div 1 may actually be more fun, they''re right! We all like different challenges in life but I enjoyed last season a whole lot more than this season. I am proud of the effort from our team but the crux of the matter is that no-one likes to be the whipping boys. The harsh reality is that there is a huge gulf in class and ability in the premier league and it is predominantly fuelled by money. I hope we stay up and will cheer to the last game but if we don''t we must remain upbeat and confident that we can do well again next year. I''d rather watch our game against Burnley last year than Chelsea this year, whilst i admire our effort and spirt it is a results game. Lets face it football is a game of highs and lows, in fact it is the lows that make you really appreciate the highs (try explaining that to a Man U fan).

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IMO the premier league won''t exist in a few years time as we know it - the gulf is so big now with all the dirty Russian money etc that these mega teams will move on and Norwich will become an established New Premier league side comprising of about 16 teams from the Prem and 6 to 8 of the best from the 1st division.....I would be happy with this solution.

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Helsinki, yes but when that happens the Premier league will be like the Championship is now, second to another bigger, better league, so what''s the point of that?

I have said before that winning games is more fun than losing, so if we did go down this year I think every fan will soon forget that if and when we start winning again.  I also have a small reason why I wouldn''t be terribly upset if we went down, I am 700 and something on the list for a season ticket.   Of course I would rather us stay in the prem and get tickets to whatever game I can some other way though, but nothing beats being there.

Also I don''t think we would lose many players.  Huckerby, Ashton, Francis and Green our best assets right?   Ashton yet to prove anything in the prem and has signed 3 year contract with us.  Huckerby has never proved anything in the prem unfortunately.   Francis could attract attention from a lower Prem side.   Green would also probably join Francis, but we have 2 decent back up keepers and the money would be helpful.   Apart from those who do you think would leave? 

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[quote]Flick Fleck, what dream football is that? as far as I can see Chelsea play very efficient football but I''ve seen better. They have spent an obscene amount of money on a team and manager and have had m...[/quote]

Marty: I think that you are absolutely bonkers! 

 

Now, forgive me if it seems as though I am mocking here - no offence intended, believe you me.  But you simply cannot claim that it is more fun to watch us playing against Burnley in a lower division than against one of the best teams in Europe!!

 

On that logic, we should refuse to play in the UEFA cup if we win the Fair Play League, because the other teams would be better than us!!

 

Prudence with Ambition, whilst a cheesy Doomcaster soundbite, at least contains the word ''Ambition'' (something that is lacking amongst we fans, it seems...)

 

You were right to say that this is a results game, Marty.  But strolling to a 2-0 win against a team like Burnley is not about getting results.  You''d just be kidding yourelf.

 

Results, like ambiton, need to be fought for.

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Flick Fleck, I think it was 5-3 against Burnley, a game of the most entertaining footy unlike losing 4-0 to the likes of Charlton!

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Of course we can become an established Premier League side. I happen to believe that with only a few improvments in the quality of players that we can be the equal of a Bolton or a Charlton. OK the days of competing at the top (as we did a dozen years back) may be gone, but UEFA cup, FA Cup runs, League Cup runs should not be beyond us in due course. We have come a long way since the dark days of Bryan Hamilton- even just half the amount of progress since then will see us in good stead. And I still believe it even should we go down come May- the foundations at our club for careful long term organic growth are well in place.

BTW I agree with Helsinki that its more than likely that the top few might be off in a European super league, but if there is promotion and relegation to it then we would still have something to play for and realistically it would only suck the top 2 out as to have any more would, extrapoloated through Europe, result in too big a league. But that''s a bit of a way off for us to be concerned about just yet.

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[quote]Flick Fleck, I think it was 5-3 against Burnley, a game of the most entertaining footy unlike losing 4-0 to the likes of Charlton![/quote]

Marty: It could have been 7-5 to us with a Malky hattrick, but that''s not the point.  The point is that its still the Fizzy League!!

"We''re Premier League, we''re havin a laugh!"

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In answer to the original question, to establish ourselves I think we need to get back to the days of plucking good players from the lower leagues (Bruce) and from PL reserve teams (Crook, Bowen).  We need to build a team, not buy one and it''s the only way I can see us being a mainstay in the PL is by good scouting and developing our young talent.

As for the debate about playing in the PL or Fizzy league, as much as I like to see us winning I would rather be in the PL.  A question for those who would like to see us winning next year, you ask any player in the squad where they want to be playing next year.  I can guarantee none will say the Championship.

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Fascinating post. This goes to the heart of what football - in fact all sport - is about. I believe the real "highs" come from the moments when everything connects; a brilliant goal, a fantastic save, a superbly timed tackle etc. Winning at all costs is NOT the point BUT winning enables you to play better teams who will test you more & provide more of those moments. When I used to play (very badly) it was far more satisfying to play out of our skins & lose 1-0 to a much better team than beat the blind school 10-0.

Norwich are not the blind school. They are there or thereabouts in the PL. They may go down, but I believe Nigel & co. are looking at a long term future in the PL, which MUST be the ambition of all supporters - or why bother? If you don''t want to stretch yourself I can''t see the point.

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It''s interesting reading the opposing views - eternal optimists vs pragmatic realists ...

I don''t think there''s any doubt we''d all like to see Norwich do what Charlton have done over recent years.  But Charltons are few and far between.  Personally, I can see us carrying on as we have done under Worthy.  We''ll probably drop this year, flirt with the play-offs next year, maybe even lucky enough to come back up again.  Some years we''ll miss out like we did the year before last.  But I do believe, with all the money required in football these days, we''ll struggle to establish ourselves in the Premiership in its current format.  But it doesn’t stop me wanting …

“Success to the City club”

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What the Man U/ Liverpool fans of this world do not understand is that satisfaction and vlaue in football is all relative. Is it a bigger achievement for Chelsea to win the Champs league or for Torquay to avoid relegation from League 1?

At the moment our target as a club is to become the the 17th best club in the Premiership and if we do not achieve it this season we will enjoy trying to reach this target in the near future.

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Off course we can become an established Premiership side.

It might take a couple of attempts but we have the nucleus of a side that with some additional quality will be good enough.  We have a good enough ground and we have good enough training facilities.  We have a good enough main shareholder and we have good enough fans. We even have a manager who could well prove good enough - it might not be this year bit it will come

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I agree - fascinating post. My view is pretty confused. I find it hard to imagine that we''ll ever be in a position to finish in the top six of the Premier league (which we did three times in less than ten years last time we were in the top division). In so many ways the Premier league is a terrible competition, mostly uncompetitive and predictable, and obviously driven by money. If Liverpool and Newcastle can''t break into the top group of clubs, what can we, or Charlton, or Southampton etc hope for? An uneventful season of mediocrity at best, a nervous relegation struggle at worst.

But, but but...

Would you rather be watching Norwich at Anfield or from that ridiculous Brian Moore stand at Gillingham? How did it feel when we came back from two down at St James''s Park? Or the last ten minutes against Middlesborough (if you were still there...)? The Premier League may suck in so many ways, but it''s still the place to be; that''s the terrible truth.

And, even more important than that is why you go to watch football in the first place. My favourite Carrow road memory is the play-off semi-final victory over Wolves because everyone there had the sense that for the first time in years we were watching a game that really, really mattered. The same applied to every game last season, and it will apply to every game this season until we''re safe. And it will probably apply to every game next season, whether we''re trying to stay up again, or trying to win promotion. And that''s what it''s all about. And that''s why it''s better to be a Norwich fan than a Man U or Chelsea fan - most of their games are a foregone conclusion.

Today''s game is going to be unbearably tense. But that''s why we go to games, isn''t it?

OTBC forever, in whatever league.

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