Who wants the Premiership?

[KenBrown 0]

This is sadIt reinforces a provincial view of football.It sounds at though settling for second ( or possibly 3rd ) best becaus ethey would be very difficult to compete with.Sure its tough to make things happen in the prem but things dont last for ever.  It would be far better to earn the right and be promoted to play the likes of the big guns in the prem.It may take a season or 2 to establish the club as recognised club in the prem but to have the likes of Drogba, Essien, Van der Vart, Fabregas and Rooney here at CR would be great.We must want to pit our wits ( and Im sure Lambert does) against the giants of the game.  Its better than joining a 2nd rate european type competition.If you take it to the ultimate conclusion it promotes the idea that we want to pla and be the best in the region only.No thanks I look forward to a rocking Carrow Road and beating a Chelski or Manure in a mid week ficture  

[nutty nigel 7,509]

I agree with this Ken Brown. We must not stand still because we will go backwards as other more ambitious clubs come sailing by. But we must recognise the Premier League for what it is.

Back in 88/89 we had what I still believe was our best ever season. After the Easter programme was complete we were just 3 points behind league leaders Arsenal with a game in hand and were in the semi-finals of the FA Cup. I should imagine we were quite short odds to do the double from that position!

But the competition was nowhere near what the Premier League provides now. The best players in the World weren''t there. The best players in Britain probably were but how good were they? We could assemble a team good enough to compete with the best.

When we played Arsenal that season our team was: Gunn, Culverhouse, Bowen, Butterworth. Linighan, Townsend, Gordon, Fleck, Rosario, Phelan, Putney. The Arsenal team was: Lukic, Dixon, Winterburn, Thomas, Bould, Adams, Roecastle, Thomas, Smith, Merson, Marwood. So there you have it. Nothing between the teams on paper or on the pitch. The top division was under the same umbrella as the other three and was a good honest competetive league where good coaches and a shrewdly run club could challenge with the best on merit.

On our last excursion to the Premier League things were very different. For football fans who just wanted to be entertained it was unbelievable. In 40 years of watching Norwich I have never been entertained by the best footballers in the world before. But for Norwich fans who like to see competetive football where the club can win a fair percentage of games it was a nightmare.

I guess there is a compromise. There is a middle ground between the two eras. But it can only be found if or when all four divisions come back under the juristriction of the Football League.

 

[|BA 0]

There''s nothing provincial about wanting to get our national game back KB. Look on other message boards, its a opinion that gains support with every season that the gap grows. the prem League has long been described as three leagues within one as i''m sure you''ve heard. Football is all about dreaming ''One day.....'' but when the chances of that day arriving diminish thanks to people with big pockets buying clubs and playing championship manager, resentment (not the same as jealousy). I''d like them all to just **** off TBH

This is nothing new. It tends to be the viewpoint of the older fans, those still starry eyed are more interested in the kudos associated with their club being in the top flight. Its as if they feel that the fact the team they support is second tier reflects badly on them personally.

The reality of course is that fans of smaller clubs carry more respect and kudos than any of the bigger folowings can ever dream of.

[InLambertWeTrust! 0]

The thing is though if the likes of that nice Mr. Cullum [;)] came forward with 50+ million to invest - how many of you would turn that down or complain? I bet Blackpool arent complaining about the state of the premierleague either...[:|]

[GenerationA47 747]

[quote user="CT"]The thing is though if the likes of that nice Mr. Cullum [;)] came forward with 50+ million to invest - how many of you would turn that down or complain?

I bet Blackpool arent complaining about the state of the premierleague either...[:|]
[/quote]

CT, I think these phrases illustrate a mistaken conclusion from a point that more than one poster has been making - yes, I do realise and indeed have argued above that most football fans like to be misled & distracted by temporary success, NCFC fans being no exception. You have pointed out two positive future possibilities that our club could encounter. But as in any walk of life, people must be foolish to look at short-term and isolated developments in isolation from the bigger picture and the longer term trends. Just because most people roll over and accept the status quo when given their flash-in-the-pan moment every ten years or so, it doesn''t mean everyone has to do so. 

Likewise just because >10 million people regularly play the national lottery and a dozen people win it every year, it doesn''t mean that all those who have looked at the statistics, chosen not to stand a chance of financially transforming their life, and are on average hugely better off as a result, are wrong.

As others have also implied above, I too would never argue the club should refuse new money/ownership that is offered e.g. from a ''rich fan'' source - as opposed to the more usual gold-diggers and asset strippers - provided it is the kind of rich fan who has both a head and a heart, and doesn''t get caught up in the excitement that leads to unsustainable spending habits just in order to stay still. Nor would I somehow argue that we should refuse promotion once earned - without prejudicing the club''s or the game''s future, we want the best for our club within the system that''s on offer, even if we want to change that system.

[Mook 0]

[quote user="CT"]The thing is though if the likes of that nice Mr. Cullum [;)] came forward with 50+ million to invest - how many of you would turn that down or complain? I bet Blackpool arent complaining about the state of the premierleague either...[:|][/quote]I would complain. I don''t want to be a millionaire''s plaything. Being able to afford a ton of players isn''t a "sporting" achievement, it''s a financial achievement. We''re (supposed to be) a football club, not a business. All football clubs are supposed to be about sport, not about generating revenue.Blackpool will be complaining come 2013 - watch this space.Nutty - I disagree with your point about the 88/89 team. Yes, there was no "glory" players, but how many of the modern day Zenit St Petersburg team are of world reknown? Or FC Cluj or whatever they''re called. They''re cutting it in Europe. We (or Arsenal, or Liverpool) may have gone on to compete at the highest level with football as it was then, but we couldn''t test ourselves against Europe''s teams due to the idiots at the Heysel stadium in 85.To paraphrase Cluck - it''s a bizarre feeling wanting your team to win a place in a league you wish didn''t exist.

[|BA 0]

I''d certainly oppose any approach from Cullum as I always did, the more you find out about that man, the further you want to run. But Mook speaks wisely. from the right person, then maybe, though I''d not be over enthusiastic. What pride does a sugar daddy bring?

The game will never return to where it was, Sky will see to that. But the sooner we make a stand against wages like Reading have, the prouder I''ll be.

[nutty nigel 7,509]

Mook, I hear what your saying but my point is the best players in the world are now in the premiership. The top division that we competed in was a different league entirely to the one now. That season it was us challenging for top spot. Another season it was QPR, another season it was Watford.... Swansea... Palace.... Scum and so on.

When I first watched Norwich in the top league much of  the football played was some of the worst I had ever seen in any league. Dour encounters far worse than we have seen in any of the past 10 years. The best players in the World were Brazilian and we only ever saw football of that quality on our tv sets. Last time we were in the top division many of the best players in the world were playing in it, week in week out. Great for the football fans to watch but frustrating for those who wanted to see at team compete in even the top half.

 

[. 0]

Yo-yo-ing between the old First and Second Divisions was one thing..... but yo-yo-ing between the ''Championship'' (I still hate that cynical piece of spin) and the ''Premiership'' is comparable to ''the end of the world'' versus ''financial suicide''. This was never the case pre-Premiership yet the teams competing are much the same.It has sod all to do with provinciality.... and everything to do with putting the game before commercial interests. If these so-called '' big'' clubs and their supporters want to end up with a clone of the pathetic Scottish league system let them have it....Wanting something different to the status quo has nothing to with desire or ambition. We are what we are and personally I''d take my club against the likes of Man Utd and Chelsea anyday. As the old saying goes.... size isn''t important.... it''s what you do with it.

[Forever Norwich 0]

The thing that bothers me about the premiership and us going there is that to many foreign owners and players dont really want to see norwich become a all foreign side with owners from some country we have never heard of

[Lambo 0]

English football should follow the route of the Bundesliga, the rules and regulations for that league & the rest of German football are an example for everyone. Truely a case of if your a well run club who''s got a bit of money you spend wisely, a good pool of youth talent and a well organised team you''ve got a chance. To become a pro club you have to have academy structures and be shown your living within your means.

That''s why despite the obvious monster of Bayern teams like Wolfsburg, Stuttgart, Hoffenhiem & now Mainz have either won the title or been up there challenging for it recently. It''s like Werder Bremen, they sold their best player Deigo to Juve, ivested the cash wisely and replaced him from within in the form of Ozil who himself has now been sold and replaced from withing by Aaron Brown.

[BlyBlyBabes 0]

[quote user="Lambo"]

English football should follow the route of the Bundesliga, the rules and regulations for that league & the rest of German football are an example for everyone. Truely a case of if your a well run club who''s got a bit of money you spend wisely, a good pool of youth talent and a well organised team you''ve got a chance. To become a pro club you have to have academy structures and be shown your living within your means.

That''s why despite the obvious monster of Bayern teams like Wolfsburg, Stuttgart, Hoffenhiem & now Mainz have either won the title or been up there challenging for it recently. It''s like Werder Bremen, they sold their best player Deigo to Juve, ivested the cash wisely and replaced him from within in the form of Ozil who himself has now been sold and replaced from withing by Aaron Brown.

[/quote]

They must have been getting advice from Robert Chase.

[;)]

OTBC

[hogesar 9,618]

Well let''s just pack up and end the season early then.I''d much prefer to be a yo-yo prem-champ than yo-yo champ-league1 (Brendo youre a fucking idiot, league one lacked any kind of decent football).If we don''t aim to do well, get promoted etc then what''s the point in it all? You can hate the Premiership as much as you like but the standard of football is excellent, we can travel to some fantastic stadiums, expand our own stadium, be in a much better financial position etc...But, who on earth wants that? [:S]

[nutty nigel 7,509]

[quote user="BlyBlyBabes"][quote user="Lambo"]

English football should follow the route of the Bundesliga, the rules and regulations for that league & the rest of German football are an example for everyone. Truely a case of if your a well run club who''s got a bit of money you spend wisely, a good pool of youth talent and a well organised team you''ve got a chance. To become a pro club you have to have academy structures and be shown your living within your means.

That''s why despite the obvious monster of Bayern teams like Wolfsburg, Stuttgart, Hoffenhiem & now Mainz have either won the title or been up there challenging for it recently. It''s like Werder Bremen, they sold their best player Deigo to Juve, ivested the cash wisely and replaced him from within in the form of Ozil who himself has now been sold and replaced from withing by Aaron Brown.

[/quote]

They must have been getting advice from Robert Chase.

[;)]

OTBC

[/quote]

Chase sold players for millions and often replaced them for maybe half that cost. I remember him selling Townsend and Linighan and replacing them with Polston, Woodthorpe and Blades. This was not dissimilar to selling Earnshaw and Etuhu and replacing them with Cureton and Russell. Chase got away with it because we had an exceptional players come through from the youth. But, you make your own luck in football. However when that luck ran out we took the biggest fall this club has ever taken.

 

 

[ron obvious 1,499]

I do.

[Wembley_Canary 0]

I have to say that I strongly disagree with a lot that has been said in this thread. The only way this club can really progress in terms of financial security and club size is if we make it to the Premiership. Otherwise we will inevitably start to drift backwards, fan base size will decrease, attendances will drop and of course we will be worse off financially which could then open a whole new can of worms. If I''m honest I am not anti-Premiership in the same way some people on here are, it''s a far from the perfect division but I sure as hell wouldn''t boot out the 4 biggest clubs just to try and reignite competitive football in England because for 1 it would dampen our top league as a global specticle as people would begin to loose interest (attendances would drop). 2 what''s to say the 4 next biggest clubs after the current big 4 wouldn''t go on and dominate our top division in the same way Liverpool, Man U, Chelsea and Arsenal have done in the last decade. The gap between us and Villa, Tottenham, Man City and Everton is big enough for them to take over as the next "invincible" top 4.Their are definitely changes I would like to see made to the EPL but I wont bash on about how it has destroyed our game of football because that would make me a hypocrite as I regularly watch EPL and Champions League football on sky and genuinely enjoy watching world class players go up against each other week in week out. I''m sure I am not the only one on here either? I guess some people on this forum do just jump on the bandwagon of a thread and go with the flow regardless of what they really think. [:^)]

[Nexus_Canary 1,016]

[quote user="Cluckbert Chase"]I say pack the likes of Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool and Man. City etc. off to some pumped up Euro League.Re-instate the old 4 division set up where any club is in with a chance of reaching the top given shrewd signings and good leadership. No more johnny foreigners as players/managers due to the ''low profile'' and no more ridiculous spending to keep up with the ''bigboys''.......What we would have left would be a fiercely competitive league set up where domestic success was the inspiration and not the corrupt European cash cow.[/quote]Never gonna happen......BUT i agree totally with you !

[Yellow Rose of Texas 0]

Even if the Sky money disappeared we''d still not have a level playing field, the likes of Man City, Man Utd, Arsenal, Tottenham, Villa, Liverpool, Everton, Newcastle, Sunderland, Chelsea, (Leeds ugh) should still dominate because they have the bigger grounds and will generate more revenue.

But at least the revenue disparity would be manageable and teams like City, Cardiff, Derby, Forest, West Ham, Ipswich, M''Boro, Sheff Utd, Wolves, Watford could give it a real go and know that they weren''t going to go bankrupt trying to join the top league, and ditto down the football pyramid....

[GenerationA47 747]

I personally don''t believe that attendances would drop stupidly with the big 3 or 4 gone. If anything, they could rise at the other 80% of premier league clubs, which would suddenly have a chance of doing something (domestically speaking) in their fans'' lifetimes.

The players in the new top English league would presumably be doing their best to break into any one of the world-class Euro superleague teams (which you could still enjoy from your armchair on Sky) or would be on loan from one, so I don''t think it would miss out on all the top homegrown talent, either.

If the ownership and spending rules were changed at the same time (see Bundesliga comments above) and promotion to the Euro league was limited, I contend that the likelihood of a new Chelsea or Man U monster developing would be greatly reduced as the hedgefund profits and phoney glamour would be missing.

If, if, if

[KeelansGlove 0]

I have watched Norwich for nearly 40 years and I can Honestly say that our last premiership season was one of the most miserable.

I understand that we really need a promotion to sort our finances but my view of what we should do in terms of investment in the team should we get promoted has changed dramatically.

Take the money and run. Keep whatever team gets you promoted maybe sign one or two class players and wait to get relegated.

The strange thing is the only thing I can think more miserable than a season in the premier league is 2 seasons in the premier league !

I certainly dont think attendances will drop if we continue to be competitive in whatever league we are in.

I suppose the truth is that it would take about 5 years of misery and luck to become an established premier league club and im just not sure I would want to go through that.

I really dont care who plays for the opposition as long as we can beat them.

A sad situation , but true.

[|BA 0]

[quote user="Wembley_Canary"]I have to say that I strongly disagree with a lot that has been said in this thread. The only way this club can really progress in terms of financial security and club size is if we make it to the Premiership.[/quote]

Read this as you obviously missed it first time around.

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/the-debt-league-how-much-do-clubs-owe-1912244.html

[. 0]

I don''t have Sky and haven''t watched any Premier League matches for a couple of years. I couldn''t even be arsed with the FA Cup Final.  In contrast I find the Football League highlights show great viewing..... and lap up the televised early rounds of the FA Cup.It''s not that I don''t enjoy football anymore.... it''s more that I despise the football I''m being told is the ''best league in the world''.