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northernlads

Who wants the Premiership?

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A number of posters have started reflecting on our good start to the season and whether a tilt at promotion is realistic or even desireable. I''ve seen us 5 times [ Scunthorpe, Blackburn, Swansea, Forest and Doncaster] and we''ve only really played well for the whole game  at Forest. There are some tough games coming up and by the end of November we may well have slipped down the table. However, we do seem to be getting steadily better as we adjust to this division and if we are still up there in two months then speculation will inevitably mount. Automatic promotion seems very unlikely but you don''t have to be that good to sneak up through the play offs. Do we want this at this stage? There''s no doubt we have the potential to be in the top flight but would we settle for being a yo-yo club like West Brom? In the long term the Premiership is what we must strive for and with this manager we have a good chance, providing he stays, but as with alot of things, the journey is sometimes more exciting than the arrival.

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We have no choice but to become a yo yo club as with the monetary changes and rule changes we have 3 years max to acheive premier league football or as for most clubs it will never happen. When you are only allowed to spend a % of your turnover on wages / signings without the premiership money / parachute money there is very little chance of ompeteing.

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[quote user="northernlads"]A number of posters have started reflecting on our good start to the season and whether a tilt at promotion is realistic or even desireable. I''ve seen us 5 times [ Scunthorpe, Blackburn, Swansea, Forest and Doncaster] and we''ve only really played well for the whole game  at Forest. There are some tough games coming up and by the end of November we may well have slipped down the table. However, we do seem to be getting steadily better as we adjust to this division and if we are still up there in two months then speculation will inevitably mount. Automatic promotion seems very unlikely but you don''t have to be that good to sneak up through the play offs. Do we want this at this stage? There''s no doubt we have the potential to be in the top flight but would we settle for being a yo-yo club like West Brom? In the long term the Premiership is what we must strive for and with this manager we have a good chance, providing he stays, but as with alot of things, the journey is sometimes more exciting than the arrival.[/quote]I say pack the likes of Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool and Man. City etc. off to some pumped up Euro League.Re-instate the old 4 division set up where any club is in with a chance of reaching the top given shrewd signings and good leadership. No more johnny foreigners as players/managers due to the ''low profile'' and no more ridiculous spending to keep up with the ''bigboys''.......What we would have left would be a fiercely competitive league set up where domestic success was the inspiration and not the corrupt European cash cow.

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[quote user="Cluckbert Chase"][quote user="northernlads"]A number of posters have started reflecting on our good start to the season and whether a tilt at promotion is realistic or even desireable. I''ve seen us 5 times [ Scunthorpe, Blackburn, Swansea, Forest and Doncaster] and we''ve only really played well for the whole game  at Forest. There are some tough games coming up and by the end of November we may well have slipped down the table. However, we do seem to be getting steadily better as we adjust to this division and if we are still up there in two months then speculation will inevitably mount. Automatic promotion seems very unlikely but you don''t have to be that good to sneak up through the play offs. Do we want this at this stage? There''s no doubt we have the potential to be in the top flight but would we settle for being a yo-yo club like West Brom? In the long term the Premiership is what we must strive for and with this manager we have a good chance, providing he stays, but as with alot of things, the journey is sometimes more exciting than the arrival.[/quote]I say pack the likes of Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool and Man. City etc. off to some pumped up Euro League.Re-instate the old 4 division set up where any club is in with a chance of reaching the top given shrewd signings and good leadership. No more johnny foreigners as players/managers due to the ''low profile'' and no more ridiculous spending to keep up with the ''bigboys''.......What we would have left would be a fiercely competitive league set up where domestic success was the inspiration and not the corrupt European cash cow.[/quote]Agree.

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[quote user="Herman "]Blimey,i actually agree with Cluck[:P] Would you go along with a wage cap?[/quote]Bestest friends now then!   [<:o)][<:o)][<:o)]Yep.... wage cap too.

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The premiership is by far the best league in the world and its where anyone who has any love for ncfc should wish them to be, I really can''t believe some people on this message board think otherwise. I also believe if we can get there with Lambert at the helm we would be more than a yo-yo club but a good mid table side, catchment area, colney, McNally, the envey of alot of clubs. And finally have people forgoten what it felt like to beat manchester utd 2-0, fantastic!

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The thing is scrapy,i would love us to get to the Prem,as i want us to do the best we can.But i can also see that it is rotting,and have a severe dislike in the way it is run.

Contradictory or hypocritical,you choose.

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[quote user="scrapy33"]The premiership is by far the best league in the world and its where anyone who has any love for ncfc should wish them to be, I really can''t believe some people on this message board think otherwise. I also believe if we can get there with Lambert at the helm we would be more than a yo-yo club but a good mid table side, catchment area, colney, McNally, the envey of alot of clubs. And finally have people forgoten what it felt like to beat manchester utd 2-0, fantastic![/quote]

It felt even better to whip them 3-0.

And we were in the Third Division.

Hmmm.

OTBC

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[quote user="Cluckbert Chase"]I say pack the likes of Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool and Man. City etc. off to some pumped up Euro League.Re-instate the old 4 division set up where any club is in with a chance of reaching the top given shrewd signings and good leadership. No more johnny foreigners as players/managers due to the ''low profile'' and no more ridiculous spending to keep up with the ''bigboys''.......What we would have left would be a fiercely competitive league set up where domestic success was the inspiration and not the corrupt European cash cow.[/quote]

Again agree. The Premiership is killing football at all levels. Until it changes you can poke it.

Long live football

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[quote user="Cluckbert Chase"][quote user="Herman "]Blimey,i actually agree with Cluck[:P] Would you go along with a wage cap?[/quote]

Bestest friends now then!   [<:o)][<:o)][<:o)]

Yep.... wage cap too.
[/quote]

Never ever thought I would agree with Cluckbert on anything but I think you are "spot on" with this[;)]

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[quote user="I am a Banana"]No we don''t want prem! Yo yo at best![/quote]

Better that than a yo yo between the championship and league 1 which is likely to happen should we not get promoted in the next 3 years. The rule changes and the additional Sky money means that only those that have been in the premiership will have any real sort of money to spend on wages let alone signing players. It will be no good getting a rich owner as they will no longer be allowed to use their money to invest in players or pay off debt. The gap will be enormous between anyone with parachute payments and those without. Any sky money will count as part of your turnover.  

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I became a Norwich fan when we first came to Division 1 (1972). Most of my formative years involved us being in the top division with the odd 1 season down from which we rebounded immediately.

As such, from my limited perspective, Norwich SHOULD be a top Division team most of the time.

That we seemed to have accomplished those glory years from the early 70s to the mid 90s by hook and by crook doesn''t matter. If we can''t be in the Prem., we should at least be competing to get there.

I doubt anyone who has any say in the club differs in that.

There are always teams in the Prem who are lesser than us, so why should we not be there? They don''t all get relegated in 1 or 2 years; some of them do surprisingly well. We can be that again!

With proper management, we could be Prem regulars, even if we are not always near the top or even middle. We did it before, we can do it again.

Just so long as we don''t resort to idiotic desperate decisions like hiring Grant or Roeder to lead the way. Dump the loser mentality, and we can prosper in the Prem (maybe not at the top every year, but there to collect the money to spend wisely) for an extended time, and when we do get relegated, be able to bounce back.

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[quote user="Houston Canary"]I became a Norwich fan when we first came to Division 1 (1972).

[/quote]

Another glory hunter.

There are those "in the club" (a different meaning here HC) who have grave concerns about early promotion. Even their public comments make that very evident,

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[quote user="Cluckbert Chase"][quote user="northernlads"]A number of posters have started reflecting on our good start to the season and whether a tilt at promotion is realistic or even desireable. I''ve seen us 5 times [ Scunthorpe, Blackburn, Swansea, Forest and Doncaster] and we''ve only really played well for the whole game  at Forest. There are some tough games coming up and by the end of November we may well have slipped down the table. However, we do seem to be getting steadily better as we adjust to this division and if we are still up there in two months then speculation will inevitably mount. Automatic promotion seems very unlikely but you don''t have to be that good to sneak up through the play offs. Do we want this at this stage? There''s no doubt we have the potential to be in the top flight but would we settle for being a yo-yo club like West Brom? In the long term the Premiership is what we must strive for and with this manager we have a good chance, providing he stays, but as with alot of things, the journey is sometimes more exciting than the arrival.[/quote]

I say pack the likes of Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool and Man. City etc. off to some pumped up Euro League.

Re-instate the old 4 division set up where any club is in with a chance of reaching the top given shrewd signings and good leadership. No more johnny foreigners as players/managers due to the ''low profile'' and no more ridiculous spending to keep up with the ''bigboys''.......

What we would have left would be a fiercely competitive league set up where domestic success was the inspiration and not the corrupt European cash cow.
[/quote]

This is my dream also...the sooner the so-called "big 4" etc bugger off to their European "Super League" the better.

The possibility of someone like a Stevenage or Burton "doing a Wimbledon" would then be reborn...and the likes of ourselves could once more challenge at the top end of the domestic game.

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[quote user="Cluckbert Chase"][quote user="northernlads"]A number of posters have started reflecting on our good start to the season and whether a tilt at promotion is realistic or even desireable. I''ve seen us 5 times [ Scunthorpe, Blackburn, Swansea, Forest and Doncaster] and we''ve only really played well for the whole game  at Forest. There are some tough games coming up and by the end of November we may well have slipped down the table. However, we do seem to be getting steadily better as we adjust to this division and if we are still up there in two months then speculation will inevitably mount. Automatic promotion seems very unlikely but you don''t have to be that good to sneak up through the play offs. Do we want this at this stage? There''s no doubt we have the potential to be in the top flight but would we settle for being a yo-yo club like West Brom? In the long term the Premiership is what we must strive for and with this manager we have a good chance, providing he stays, but as with alot of things, the journey is sometimes more exciting than the arrival.[/quote]

I say pack the likes of Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool and Man. City etc. off to some pumped up Euro League.

Re-instate the old 4 division set up where any club is in with a chance of reaching the top given shrewd signings and good leadership. No more johnny foreigners as players/managers due to the ''low profile'' and no more ridiculous spending to keep up with the ''bigboys''.......

What we would have left would be a fiercely competitive league set up where domestic success was the inspiration and not the corrupt European cash cow.
[/quote]

Completely agree with Cluck. Let them all sod off and play in their never-ending Pepsi-Sony-Murdoch European League of Gladitorial Heroes in Association with X-Box or whatever it will become. Thinly veiled threats from the "big 4" plus Liverpool suggest they think that they are bigger than the English game and, by definition, they should be the tail that wags the dog. Incorrect. They need the English game much more than the English game needs them, the success and interest in the Championship, one of the most competitive and well supported leagues in Europe backs that up. Let them go. Further more, ensure, even if they do, that players can only  be chosen for England if they appear in the new divisional set up, and agree again with Cluck, 4 divisions, one to four. That league would be a huge, huge success with high gates and massive TV interest. Let Man Utd play Roma and Borussia Dortmund et al every week, and good riddance.

To answer the question-yes, I want the Premiership, in whatever form its in. Its bloated, self indulgent, full of itself, driven by Murdoch and the media, and, is likely as not, full of corruption and brown envelopes. But one season in it, one season, could put our club on a stable financial footing for years and years. Ironic really, I abhor its financial dominance, but still want some of it for my club. Best almost that we take the money and run. Hate it but still want it. Much like other things that are bad for us!

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[quote user="scrapy33"]The premiership is by far the best league in the world[/quote]How do you know, do you watch the Turkish, Dutch, German, French, Belgian, Portuguese etc league?The premier league is by far the richest league. The premier league has (most of) the best players (although you''ll notice that the real shining lights are in Spain). But the "best" league? That''s totally subjective & you''re just toeing the Sky Sports party line.I personally think the Championship is a lot more exciting on a yearly basis than the premier league. As Cluck says, get rid of the top four business machines ... sorry, I mean football clubs and the league would be a lot better.

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[quote user="Lambert is King"]

[quote user="I am a Banana"]No we don''t want prem! Yo yo at best![/quote]

Better that than a yo yo between the championship and league 1 which is likely to happen should we not get promoted in the next 3 years.

[/quote]To be honest, I''d actually like this. I genuinely don''t care what some stupid little squeaky cockney kid, or dirty scouse/manc thinks of Norwich, if we were to sink to a league 1/champ club permanently. I enjoyed last year and I actually would hate to be a team like Bolton or Stoke. A premier league team doing sweet naff all. Never really gonna get europe (and even if they did, they''d get smashed) and unlikely to get relegated.

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^^^^ emphatically what Mook, Cluck, Sid ''n'' Shuck said. Sadly I fear that most fans - and board members? - won''t grasp the importance of this until their own club goes into administration.

That''s because of wishful thinking + people with money who understand fans'' wishful thinking having set up a system to make even more money from it. We''ve grown up with the rapidly fading memories of a fairly meritocratic pyramid, that used to include even the top of the top division (we experienced the Indian summer of that era in our now-gone glory days, so for clubs like us the illusion feels so much more real). And that other illusion already referred to earlier, of there being some mythical English premier league (only one of the three words in that name is actually true) constantly stuffed down our throats by a calculated, consumer-driven media/football alliance.

They fuel the timeless fire of the football fan - passionate ambition, harmless dreams and a constant yearning for that sweet, sweet taste of success just recently tasted or just within reach - and through the heady clouds of mind-altering incense and the clamour of the commentators and pundits, people still don''t notice that the rules have changed and the game is no longer the same.

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[quote user="Mook"][quote user="scrapy33"]The premiership is by far the best league in the world[/quote]How do you know, do you watch the Turkish, Dutch, German, French, Belgian, Portuguese etc league?The premier league is by far the richest league. The premier league has (most of) the best players (although you''ll notice that the real shining lights are in Spain). But the "best" league? That''s totally subjective & you''re just toeing the Sky Sports party line.I personally think the Championship is a lot more exciting on a yearly basis than the premier league. As Cluck says, get rid of the top four business machines ... sorry, I mean football clubs and the league would be a lot better.[/quote]And I also agree with this post. [Y]

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[quote user="Herman "]

The thing is scrapy,i would love us to get to the Prem,as i want us to do the best we can.But i can also see that it is rotting,and have a severe dislike in the way it is run.

Contradictory or hypocritical,you choose.

[/quote]I don''t think its hypocritical at all to want what is best for your club, but at the same time to disagree with the way the whole system is set up. I feel exactly the same way.I would propose a few improvements to the current set-up which i think could redress the balance a bit:Five-up five-down promotion and relegation. More money would start to circulate between the divisions as far more clubs would get a chance in the top league. On the other hand relegation from the Premier league would be less of a disaster than it is now, as it would be easier to get back.Abolish parachute payments, and spread the money around the Championship clubs, maybe increasing amounts based on league position, as in the Premier League. This also would circulate more money lower down the league.Introduce a salary cap for players and managers. This would stop clubs spending ridiculous amounts of money which they haven''t got, and effectively gambling the entire future of the club on staying in the top league. In fact, if I was in charge I would abolish salaries for players altogether, and pay them entirely on results.Obviously, I can''t see any of the above actually being adopted, as there are too many vested interests against, but I think they would imrove on the current situation.

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[quote user="Power Hamster"]

Obviously, I can''t see any of the above actually being adopted, as there are too many vested interests against, but I think they would imrove on the current situation.


[/quote]

''Vested interests''.That is the major problem in a nutshell.The Prem is run by a lot of men who are too busy worrying about their own fat wallets,rather than football and the English game as a whole.God knows what the FA are in charge of nowadays,but they will never stand up to the PL,and seem quite happy watching teams disintergrate. 

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Jesus..... I''ve gone mainstream all of a sudden!However.....it seems like many of us have the bizarre ambition of seeing the club go somewhere we don''t actually want.  

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I can''t help but wonder how many of the people complaining about the state of the English football pay for Sky TV, or buy any Murdoch owned papers. Imo if you give any money to that Aussie bellend you have no right to complain.There''s a very simple way that people can help get our national game back to sanity - cancel your Sky subscriptions, don''t go to the pub when football is on, and don''t buy Murdoch owned papers. If you absolutely must watch the Premiership live, watch on ''illegal'' web streams.This of course will do nothing to stop the huge amounts of money that comes in through foreign TV revenue, but it would be a start.

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[quote user="Cluckbert Chase"]


I say pack the likes of Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool and Man. City etc. off to some pumped up Euro League.

Re-instate the old 4 division set up where any club is in with a chance of reaching the top given shrewd signings and good leadership. No more johnny foreigners as players/managers due to the ''low profile'' and no more ridiculous spending to keep up with the ''bigboys''.......

What we would have left would be a fiercely competitive league set up where domestic success was the inspiration and not the corrupt European cash cow.
[/quote]

Interesting view from you Nora! It''s something that I have argued for and you have argued against for many years on this forum. So do you now agree that having the top division as a seperate league from the rest of the pyramid is a mistake? Do you now agree that all four divisions should be back under the control of the same governing body and as such have to abide by the same rules?

And I guess it would be a step too far for you to agree that when the "Forum Thickos" benchmark our success in the old First Division to measure are performance in the current set up they show a total lack of understanding of the modern game.

 

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[quote user="nutty nigel"]

[quote user="Cluckbert Chase"]


I say pack the likes of Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool and Man. City etc. off to some pumped up Euro League.

Re-instate the old 4 division set up where any club is in with a chance of reaching the top given shrewd signings and good leadership. No more johnny foreigners as players/managers due to the ''low profile'' and no more ridiculous spending to keep up with the ''bigboys''.......

What we would have left would be a fiercely competitive league set up where domestic success was the inspiration and not the corrupt European cash cow.
[/quote]

Interesting view from you Nora! It''s something that I have argued for and you have argued against for many years on this forum. So do you now agree that having the top division as a seperate league from the rest of the pyramid is a mistake? Do you now agree that all four divisions should be back under the control of the same governing body and as such have to abide by the same rules?

And I guess it would be a step too far for you to agree that when the "Forum Thickos" benchmark our success in the old First Division to measure are performance in the current set up they show a total lack of understanding of the modern game.

 

[/quote]

Obviously this "Grammar Thicko" shold have used the word "our" [:$]

 

 

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