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Lets discuss Grant Holt

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[quote user="Boyo"]

 Korey Smith had one bad game IMO and got dropped, Grant Holt has been pretty damn poor all season and he hasn''t been dropped.  Grant Holt deserves to be dropped, end of story.

[/quote]

I have to say I think you''ve got the Korey tinted specs on again.

Korey always works hard but doesn''t always take care of the ball like he should. Lately, even more than usual, he''s been threatening to do a lot but actually doing very little and, it has to be said, he''s given the ball away cheaply a few times.

I still don''t think Holt is playing particularly well but I think he needs to keep playing because last season we saw that when he has a game or two out for injury/suspension he''s generally poor when he returns to the team for the next couple of games. The more games he plays the fitter and sharper he''ll get. He needs that.

Korey is a different kettle of fish because he''s a young lad who is still learning the ropes and has had to come a long way in a short space of time. Taking a turn on the bench won''t do him any harm at all.

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[quote user="Mr.Carrow"]

[quote user="blahblahblah"][quote]Maybe you could explain to us with no brains why Simeon Jackson gets dragged off every single match to make way for Holt, regardless of whether Jackson has had the better game out of the two of them and if Jacko has got the goals for us also?[/quote]Forwards who beat players with pace are less likely to last 90 minutes, forwards who can hold the ball up and bring other players into the game are more likely to last 90 minutes.  I''m sure Usain Bolt would make an excellent forward for maybe 30 minutes a game ?[/quote]

Also, a target man is far more use from a defensive point of view when we are trying to protect a lead- both because the ball will stick more up front and in terms of defending from set-pieces.  I`m afraid Jackson`s hold-up play was poor saturday, as was Martin`s when he came on.  Jackson for Martin was 100% the right sub to make, no question.

[/quote]Good grief - I''ve been here so long, I''ve started agreeing with Mr. Carrow [:)]

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[quote user="Mr.Carrow"]

[quote user="blahblahblah"][quote]Maybe you could explain to us with no brains why Simeon Jackson gets dragged off every single match to make way for Holt, regardless of whether Jackson has had the better game out of the two of them and if Jacko has got the goals for us also?[/quote]Forwards who beat players with pace are less likely to last 90 minutes, forwards who can hold the ball up and bring other players into the game are more likely to last 90 minutes.  I''m sure Usain Bolt would make an excellent forward for maybe 30 minutes a game ?[/quote]

Also, a target man is far more use from a defensive point of view when we are trying to protect a lead- both because the ball will stick more up front and in terms of defending from set-pieces.  I`m afraid Jackson`s hold-up play was poor saturday, as was Martin`s when he came on.  Jackson for Martin was 100% the right sub to make, no question.

[/quote]What a load of rubbish!Name one time when the ball stuck to Grant Holt upfront on Saturday, just one... oh no it didn''t did it???

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[quote user="Crofts Number 1 Fan"]

The simple fact of the matter is that Holt is one of those players you miss when he isn''t starting, even in poor form (which he isn''t, he is IMO now starting to improve) but I do agree that it is unfair we keep hauling Simeon off for Chrissy when he has been creating countless chances the last 70 minutes. Having said that I would like to see Oli get more game time.

[/quote]

 

Guess Lambert doesn''t think Oli is up to it yet which just leaves us with the 3 options upfront, still think we need another striker in on loan if the money can be found from somewhere.

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I think for the most part loans are a waste of space.

Lambert has so far got it right in that he has brought in young players on loan that want to play games and have a point to prove. That and it appears that most are with a view to a permanent switch.

Again this will be a problem. We probably can''t afford to buy a proven champs level player of the mold so we may end up with another youngster with perhaps not the experience and a bit of a gamble.

And that I am afraid is how football is.

Possible targets:

Jason Roberts(loan) - expensive, proven and probably not available to sign on a permanent due to interest from othe teams in prem.

Rickie Lambert(perm) - would cost a heck of a lot as Southampton would want to recapture some of the £1million they blew on signing him.

Steve Howard(loan/perm) - has a good record at this level but at 34 too old in my opinion, not exactly what Lambert tends to go for.

Nile Ranger(loan) - has been talked up as one for the future, won''t cost silly money just for the loan and is keen. However he is reletively unproven and could just be another Elvis Hammond.

They are just off the top of my head - in terms of championship proven or up and coming prospects. There are ofcourse players in the lower leagues but it seems that being back in the Championship has made some fans resort back to wanting top Championship players rather than lower league gambles.

Like I have said before, if we want to get in a player that is going to guarantee us goals at this level it is going to cost - whether it be a loan or permanent. If we don''t have Barnett post January then I think we may need to get another centre back in.

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Of course.... Grant Holt could always be doing what his manager has asked him to do.....

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[quote user="Smudger"][quote user="Mr.Carrow"]

[quote user="blahblahblah"][quote]Maybe you could explain to us with no brains why Simeon Jackson gets dragged off every single match to make way for Holt, regardless of whether Jackson has had the better game out of the two of them and if Jacko has got the goals for us also?[/quote]Forwards who beat players with pace are less likely to last 90 minutes, forwards who can hold the ball up and bring other players into the game are more likely to last 90 minutes.  I''m sure Usain Bolt would make an excellent forward for maybe 30 minutes a game ?[/quote]

Also, a target man is far more use from a defensive point of view when we are trying to protect a lead- both because the ball will stick more up front and in terms of defending from set-pieces.  I`m afraid Jackson`s hold-up play was poor saturday, as was Martin`s when he came on.  Jackson for Martin was 100% the right sub to make, no question.

[/quote]What a load of rubbish!Name one time when the ball stuck to Grant Holt upfront on Saturday, just one... oh no it didn''t did it???[/quote]Mr C and I gave you the theory behind the decision, what happened in practice is another matter.

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[quote user="chicken"]Sorry but I baffled you - the person who one minute says he is useless and then the next that he is just out of form and then says he is worse than someone else who, if goals and assists are anything to go by, has less form than him?!!!! [/quote]

You have baffled me again Chicken!  Yeah I said he is useless, but I didn''t say he is out of form and I didn''t say Korey Smith is better than him!!!!!

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[quote user="grantroederdisaster"]You sound like you fit into the "what you know about football can be written on a postcard" category![/quote]

Who are you to tell me that?

That''s your opinion, if I go by my opinion then I can say the same thing about you!

When someone says "you know nothing about football" it is a very weak statement.

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[quote user="GJP"][quote user="Boyo"]

 Korey Smith had one bad game IMO and got dropped, Grant Holt has been pretty damn poor all season and he hasn''t been dropped.  Grant Holt deserves to be dropped, end of story.

[/quote]

I have to say I think you''ve got the Korey tinted specs on again.

Korey always works hard but doesn''t always take care of the ball like he should. Lately, even more than usual, he''s been threatening to do a lot but actually doing very little and, it has to be said, he''s given the ball away cheaply a few times.

I still don''t think Holt is playing particularly well but I think he needs to keep playing because last season we saw that when he has a game or two out for injury/suspension he''s generally poor when he returns to the team for the next couple of games. The more games he plays the fitter and sharper he''ll get. He needs that.

Korey is a different kettle of fish because he''s a young lad who is still learning the ropes and has had to come a long way in a short space of time. Taking a turn on the bench won''t do him any harm at all.

[/quote]

Okay, so Korey hasn''t been at his best all season but Holt has been way below his best.

You say Korey keeps giving the ball away cheaply but were you at the game Saturday?  The amount of times Holt gave the ball away cheaply was unbelievable.  His first touch is woeful, the ball just hits him and bounces off.  For someone who is supposed to be our talisman and the main focal point up front he wins very, very little and rarely keeps hold of the ball.

Also the team might have been different without him last season but this season is different.  Give Martin and Jackson a good run together and I''m sure they will click.  Martin is stronger than a lot of people think.  He dosn''t give the same presence but Holt dosn''t give us that much of one because he makes it so easy for the defender to win the ball.

I have to say you have the Grant Holt tinted specs on again.

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@Boyo: ''Holt has been way below his best''.

So that''s not being out of form then?

Martin and Jackson could well work, unfortunately right now Holt and Jackson is working, perhaps not to the top of that combinations ability but it is working none the less.

You swap Holt and Martin you have no guarantee that it is going to work better or worse. It could take them a few games to ''click'' at which point we may well have lost a couple of games and slipped down the table.

It would be far better at this point in time to allow the Holt - Jackson partnership to grow than to start again from scratch with only hope and belief that it will eventually bring you rewards.

And just to add, your interpretation of the game on Saturday may not be everyone else''s interpretation. I try to listen to the post match stuff on Radio Norfolk to see what they have to say about it all and at no point did they say Holt was outstanding, and he wasn''t mentioned as a contender for man of the match, but they did say he didn''t play badly either, just not up to his usual standards.

That''s a long way off being useless. One thing he didnt do so much of is go out wide which was one of your main complaints before, so it would appear he isn''t throwing himself about as much as he was before but then you can''t have it all ways.

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[quote user="Boyo"][quote user="GJP"]

I still don''t think Holt is playing particularly well but I think he needs to keep playing because last season we saw that when he has a game or two out for injury/suspension he''s generally poor when he returns to the team for the next couple of games. The more games he plays the fitter and sharper he''ll get. He needs that.

[/quote]

I have to say you have the Grant Holt tinted specs on again.

[/quote]

So I say that Grant Holt isn''t playing particularly well and you accuse me of having "the Grant Holt tinted specs on".

Doesn''t really add up or make a lot of sense, does it?

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[quote user="Welsh NorwichFan"]59 games. 35 goals. Enough said.[/quote]No one is doubting his record. He was superb last season, but I just think he has been poor this season. Well not poor, but no where near as good as he can be. He just needs to sort his ideas out and we will be sorted.

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[quote user="GJP"]

[quote user="Boyo"][quote user="GJP"]

I still don''t think Holt is playing particularly well but I think he needs to keep playing because last season we saw that when he has a game or two out for injury/suspension he''s generally poor when he returns to the team for the next couple of games. The more games he plays the fitter and sharper he''ll get. He needs that.

[/quote]

I have to say you have the Grant Holt tinted specs on again.

[/quote]

So I say that Grant Holt isn''t playing particularly well and you accuse me of having "the Grant Holt tinted specs on".

Doesn''t really add up or make a lot of sense, does it?

[/quote]Correct me if I am wrong, but he has strarted every game bar the Watford one, which was about 2 and a half months ago. If he''s unfit then that is his problem, unless he is injured.

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[quote user="Welsh NorwichFan"]59 games. 35 goals. Enough said.[/quote]

IMO if you are looking at goal scoring as an asset to Holts game you should be quoteing his championship record of which I know Norwich = 13 appearances 3 goals Blackpool = 4 appearances no goals and I am not sure what his record was in the champinship with Forest, but was it not really bad ?.

Again IMO Holt may help us over acheive wth assists but he will not blast us to the premiership. With the side we have at present it does always look weaker without him playing, which I could put my finger on last year as our back four needed his help, but our present back four are plenty good enough to deal with most situations. A centre forward to blast us up I reckon is out of our price range. Is Holt good enough to score lots of goals in the championship I still think not, does he offer something else that makes him good enough for the championship I think he does, but cant see him being the cult hero as a champonship player as he was in league 1.  

 

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Holt looks like he could do with losing a bit of weight to me.

He puts himself about just as much as ever but sometimes i think it''s too the detriment of him actually winning the ball.

He seems to be looking for free kicks too much.

 

That said you can''t argue with his scoring record, nor the position we are in the League at the moment.

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Could it even be that he draws defenders out of position making space for others to score?

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[quote user="Cluckbert Chase"]Could it even be that he draws defenders out of position making space for others to score?


[/quote]

 

That''s a far too sensible post [;)]

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[quote user="WeAreYellows49"]

[quote user="Cluckbert Chase"]Could it even be that he draws defenders out of position making space for others to score?


[/quote]

 

That''s a far too sensible post [;)]

[/quote]

It might Way but the number of times you see someone look up to cross the ball and Holt is standing beside them, so no one to aim for, kind of refutes that a bit.

Happened a lot on Saturday, my opinion is he is being dominated by Championship CB''s and moves wide to give himself a chance.

While we are still competing and winning lets not change the formula to much and if Holt is percieved by all as the "lucky mascot" then who are we to argue.

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[quote user="The Butler"][quote user="WeAreYellows49"]

[quote user="Cluckbert Chase"]Could it even be that he draws defenders out of position making space for others to score?

[/quote]

 

That''s a far too sensible post [;)]

[/quote]

It might Way but the number of times you see someone look up to cross the ball and Holt is standing beside them, so no one to aim for, kind of refutes that a bit.

Happened a lot on Saturday, my opinion is he is being dominated by Championship CB''s and moves wide to give himself a chance.

While we are still competing and winning lets not change the formula to much and if Holt is percieved by all as the "lucky mascot" then who are we to argue.

[/quote]There are plenty of other targets in a yellow shirt.... so why not ask questions about them?...... Or is it a one man forward line?

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[quote user="Cluckbert Chase"][quote user="The Butler"][quote user="WeAreYellows49"]

[quote user="Cluckbert Chase"]Could it even be that he draws defenders out of position making space for others to score?


[/quote]

 

That''s a far too sensible post [;)]

[/quote]

It might Way but the number of times you see someone look up to cross the ball and Holt is standing beside them, so no one to aim for, kind of refutes that a bit.

Happened a lot on Saturday, my opinion is he is being dominated by Championship CB''s and moves wide to give himself a chance.

While we are still competing and winning lets not change the formula to much and if Holt is percieved by all as the "lucky mascot" then who are we to argue.

[/quote]

There are plenty of other targets in a yellow shirt.... so why not ask questions about them?...... Or is it a one man forward line?
[/quote]

You would think so by the way everyone goes on about him.

Little point of swinging a cross into  a box with 6 foot plus defenders against 5 foot err forwards.

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[quote user="The Butler"][quote user="Cluckbert Chase"][quote user="The Butler"][quote user="WeAreYellows49"]

[quote user="Cluckbert Chase"]Could it even be that he draws defenders out of position making space for others to score?

[/quote]

 

That''s a far too sensible post [;)]

[/quote]

It might Way but the number of times you see someone look up to cross the ball and Holt is standing beside them, so no one to aim for, kind of refutes that a bit.

Happened a lot on Saturday, my opinion is he is being dominated by Championship CB''s and moves wide to give himself a chance.

While we are still competing and winning lets not change the formula to much and if Holt is percieved by all as the "lucky mascot" then who are we to argue.

[/quote]There are plenty of other targets in a yellow shirt.... so why not ask questions about them?...... Or is it a one man forward line?[/quote]

You would think so by the way everyone goes on about him.

Little point of swinging a cross into  a box with 6 foot plus defenders against 5 foot err forwards.

[/quote]It''s crazy expectations again isn''t it Butler?There they are up near the top of the table and once again being considered one of the teams to beat and here they are busy picking holes in a player who largely put us where we are. Different league... different opposition... different tactics. Like with Hucks in his day... as soon as he''s not in the side it becomes immediately noticable.It shows how shallow it all is really.... Delia Smith get''s it wrong for decades and still smells of roses.... Grant Holt alters his given role in the team and he''s suddenly rubbish...........Amazing.

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Will be interested to hear what people at the game thought of his performance today.

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[quote user="cityangel"]

Will be interested to hear what people at the game thought of his performance today.

[/quote]So you''re still "not knocking him" then?  Just stirring the pot?

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[quote user="Mister Chops"][quote user="cityangel"]

Will be interested to hear what people at the game thought of his performance today.

[/quote]So you''re still "not knocking him" then?  Just stirring the pot?[/quote]lol... City Angle thinks he''s crap! [;)]

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[quote user="Smudger"][quote user="Mister Chops"][quote user="cityangel"]

Will be interested to hear what people at the game thought of his performance today.

[/quote]

So you''re still "not knocking him" then?  Just stirring the pot?

[/quote]

lol... City Angle thinks he''s crap! [;)]
[/quote]

 

I dont think he''s crap, I just think that he''s not ''''god'''' and can be substituted when hes out of sorts plus I think we need back up to give him competition as I think it''ll be a tougher league for him than it was in League 1.

It was a geniuine question as I wasn''t at the game today.

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I am getting slightly concerned about his lack of efforts on goal in the past few games. For someone with a great goalscoring record over the past 2 seasons, I would like to see him be a bit more selfish and have unexpected shots on goal.

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People who were there yesterday, how well did Grant play? I aint coming on here to have a huge go at him (although it is known I am not his biggest fan atm), just wanted to see other fans thoughts of him.What is annoying, is how Lambert brings Hoolahan and Jackson off, and leaves Holt on, when he is probably the least fit, and often playing worse than the others. So what if he is captain, he can hand over the armband to my mate Leon. [:)]

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