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Lets discuss Grant Holt

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[quote user="Brendo "][quote user="hogesar"][quote user="Brendo "]

I like him a bit more after today, but still a dislike. He actually won a header, and tried to win others by using his only good attribute, his fatness, which was a pleasant surprise. [:)]

[/quote]

You fucking pathetic little child Brendo - you were comfortable enough licking Holt''s arse all last season and because he hasn''t scored 500 goals so far you claim his ''fatness'' is his only good attribute.

I suggest you actually watch football matches properly, and try to use the few brain cells you have to form an opinion which isn''t created just so you can have a little argument on here with someone, like me, for example. [:)]
[/quote]Brilliant.

I do not think he is a good player at the moment, just my oninion. I think he has the potential to be, but he has very stupid ideas. He was better today and stayed in the middle, and got an assist by doing so. If he just stays in the middle, and is patient I believe he will do well, as he is strong and decent in the air (when he can be arsed). Jackson is awesome, I really like him. He tries so hard and has the right idea. Holt, in my opinion, can be a very irresponsible captain at times, but is good one. C.Martin annoys me too, with his mentality. He just gets angry and whinges to the ref.

I don''t crave attention, I just want to express my views of Holt being not that good, and far over rated. I do realise it was a very childish way of doing so, and I apologise, but he really did grind my gears the other night.

I think our defence is superb. Barnett and Ward are brick walls at the back, and I really rate Martin at right back. Steven (sp?) Smith has been poor for the last two games, but needs time to settle in. Hoolahan, Crofts, and Korey Smith (at times) really impress me in midfield. Lappin is not consistently good enough in my opinion, we really need Surman back. Having said that, Fox looked good today, as did McNamee for parts. And at the moment, Jackson is the only striker I rate, which is why I was so anti-Holt. Obviously my opinion counts for nothing though.

I have no idea what formation we should play now. There is the diamond, and classic 4-4-2, which both have positives and negatives. The diamond is superb for Hoolahan when he is clicking, but when he isn''t it is poor. 4-4-2 offers more width, but Lappin has not been looking too good out wide, although he got a good assist on tuesday night.

I am not sure what we are going to do in the future, as I would like to see all 3 of our strikers , McNamee, Surman (when fit), Smith, Fox, Crofts and Hoolahan all involved. Unfortunately we aren''t allowed a 14 man team. [:(]

I do feel we have a quality defence though, which is good!

[/quote]

Holt being not that good?  How do you figure that then?  Last season he was god, this season he''s been one of the many whipping boys.

Jesus christ look at where we are in the table, compared to 2 seasons ago we are doing brilliantly, so far.

Holt is a great player, and just because he grates on you doesn''t make him a bad player, nor fat ffs.

He''s a team man and when he was out of the squad we missed him.  He frustrates me too when he acts like he''s a winger, when he should be in the box, but then with a player like Holty you are always going to get frustrated.

 

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[quote user="Mister Chops"][quote user="First Wizard"]

[quote user="I am a Banana"]DROP HIM, I DONT CARE HOW GOOD HE WAS LAST SEASON IF HE THINKS HE DOESN''T HAVE TO TRY IN THE PRE MATCH WARM UP AND STILL GET A PLACE HE NEEDS A KICK UP THE BACK SIDE AND WE NEED SOME COMP FOR PLACES AS A TARGET MAN![/quote]

Jeez! I''ve somehow logged on to planet la la land.

You can''t just slag Holt like that Nana, the odd poor game, iyo, does not merit your reply about our fantastic captain.

Behave.[:@]

[/quote]

Just wait until he''s fully fit. Come Monday November 1st, he''ll be like a white John Fashanu.

[/quote]

 

Exactly![;)]

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[quote user="Brendo "][quote user="hogesar"][quote user="I am a Banana"]Yeah Martin and Jackson would be a better partnership at the moment then holt and jackson![/quote]Jesus Christ.Are the conservatives putting more money towards Education, or less? This post suggests more is needed.Either that, or we kill of all the stupid people as soon as they turn eighteen.I''m waiting, Nana....[/quote]Oh, and on a personal note, please stop criticising people without justifying why. You are just as bad if you reply by just whipping them for being young. If you were to disagree with him using some footballing examples/terms, then fair enough...[/quote]It''s fully justified! You ran on and on last season on these forums and notched up a few thousand posts in the process - half of  them about how good Grant Holt was. Then today you claim his ''only good attribute'' is his ''fatness''? I''m sorry, but if you come across like an attention seeking child, you''ll get called one.Holt wasn''t bad today - he''s not going to get 30 goals or even be our main goalscorer, but then again, he''s not typically supposed to be. He wins his headers and he holds the ball up well,  he won''t do it every time, because if he did he''d be playing for Manchester United. His main job will probably be to set up goals to the likes of Jackson and Martin, and oh look, he done that today!And also, don''t be naive neough to criticise him for coming out wide. It''s required sometimes, players need to find ways of creating things - and Lambert may well have told him this anyway! Chances are he''s following orders or at the very least i don''t think he''s getting a bollocking for how he''s doing at the moment.

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[quote user="hogesar"][quote user="Brendo "][quote user="hogesar"][quote user="I am a Banana"]Yeah Martin and Jackson would be a better partnership at the moment then holt and jackson![/quote]

Jesus Christ.

Are the conservatives putting more money towards Education, or less? This post suggests more is needed.

Either that, or we kill of all the stupid people as soon as they turn eighteen.

I''m waiting, Nana....
[/quote]Oh, and on a personal note, please stop criticising people without justifying why. You are just as bad if you reply by just whipping them for being young. If you were to disagree with him using some footballing examples/terms, then fair enough...[/quote]

It''s fully justified! You ran on and on last season on these forums and notched up a few thousand posts in the process - half of  them about how good Grant Holt was. Then today you claim his ''only good attribute'' is his ''fatness''? I''m sorry, but if you come across like an attention seeking child, you''ll get called one.

Holt wasn''t bad today - he''s not going to get 30 goals or even be our main goalscorer, but then again, he''s not typically supposed to be. He wins his headers and he holds the ball up well,  he won''t do it every time, because if he did he''d be playing for Manchester United. His main job will probably be to set up goals to the likes of Jackson and Martin, and oh look, he done that today!

And also, don''t be naive neough to criticise him for coming out wide. It''s required sometimes, players need to find ways of creating things - and Lambert may well have told him this anyway! Chances are he''s following orders or at the very least i don''t think he''s getting a bollocking for how he''s doing at the moment.
[/quote]Did I really make loads of posts about Holt though? Cause I can''t remember. [:$] He was up against poorer defenders, and so he looked better.

I take it back actually, I think he is a quality player, but could be so much better with a different attitude!

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[quote user="Brendo "][quote user="hogesar"][quote user="Brendo "][quote user="hogesar"][quote user="I am a Banana"]Yeah Martin and Jackson would be a better partnership at the moment then holt and jackson![/quote]Jesus Christ.Are the conservatives putting more money towards Education, or less? This post suggests more is needed.Either that, or we kill of all the stupid people as soon as they turn eighteen.I''m waiting, Nana....[/quote]Oh, and on a personal note, please stop criticising people without justifying why. You are just as bad if you reply by just whipping them for being young. If you were to disagree with him using some footballing examples/terms, then fair enough...[/quote]It''s fully justified! You ran on and on last season on these forums and notched up a few thousand posts in the process - half of  them about how good Grant Holt was. Then today you claim his ''only good attribute'' is his ''fatness''? I''m sorry, but if you come across like an attention seeking child, you''ll get called one.Holt wasn''t bad today - he''s not going to get 30 goals or even be our main goalscorer, but then again, he''s not typically supposed to be. He wins his headers and he holds the ball up well,  he won''t do it every time, because if he did he''d be playing for Manchester United. His main job will probably be to set up goals to the likes of Jackson and Martin, and oh look, he done that today!And also, don''t be naive neough to criticise him for coming out wide. It''s required sometimes, players need to find ways of creating things - and Lambert may well have told him this anyway! Chances are he''s following orders or at the very least i don''t think he''s getting a bollocking for how he''s doing at the moment.[/quote]Did I really make loads of posts about Holt though? Cause I can''t remember. [:$] He was up against poorer defenders, and so he looked better. I take it back actually, I think he is a quality player, but could be so much better with a different attitude![/quote]What''s wrong with his attitude now?!! His grit and determination? His workhorse effort? His non stop 90 minutes of trying?The fact you''ve gone from ''fatness is his only good attribute'' to ''i think he is a quality player'', says all i need to know really about your opinions.

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[quote user="Brendo "]

I like him a bit more after today, but still a dislike. He actually won a header, and tried to win others by using his only good attribute, his fatness, which was a pleasant surprise. [:)]

[/quote]

I take it that was meant to be funny?!!!

Good goal Tuesday and a good touch to Jackson today. Again, better service to the forwards in the first half today and had we played on with a bit more endeavour in the 2nd half I think we would have had more chances. Just a bit more belief from our players and I think we will get on a roll again.

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[quote user="chicken"][quote user="Brendo "]

I like him a bit more after today, but still a dislike. He actually won a header, and tried to win others by using his only good attribute, his fatness, which was a pleasant surprise. [:)]

[/quote] I take it that was meant to be funny?!!! Good goal Tuesday and a good touch to Jackson today. Again, better service to the forwards in the first half today and had we played on with a bit more endeavour in the 2nd half I think we would have had more chances. Just a bit more belief from our players and I think we will get on a roll again.[/quote]How did he get this goal and assist I hear you ask? That is right, from STAYING IN THE MIDDLE.

hmm... [^o)]

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[quote user="WeAreYellows49"]I despair sometimes with you Brendo, last season he was the mutts nuts and this he''s fat and not good enough [:|][/quote]I take it back. I think he is a really good player, and to be honest don''t know why I said that. I just get an idea in my head and I guess I am a bit stubborn. Looking back on it, I have no clue why I said it. I like him, I really do. It''s just he just annoys me sometimes by looking like he can''t be arsed, and the way he jumps in pretty high. I can think of at least twice today.

But I do like him, I think he is a quality player, just needs to be more patient and be a big, strong centre forward more imo.

Oh, and Barnett is the best player in the world. [:)]

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I thought Holt looked very very tired after about the 60th minute and did wonder if Lambert might take him off but he didn''t.

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I don''t get some people and Grant Holt, I really don''t.  He is so overated it''s unbelievable.  Brendo joked and said he actually won a header and then he got shot down for it because apparently Holt always wins headers and is really good at holding the ball up, well I''m sorry but Holt wins hardly any headers at all and is absolutely terrible at holding the ball up.  When going in for a header he dosn''t jump at all, he just backs into the defender trying to be clever and the defender has an easy header away.  When you hold the ball up you need to have a good first touch and control.  Holt''s body is like its made of wood or something because the ball just bounces away from him because his first touch is so poor and therefore can not hold it up at all.

 

Someone also said that Holt has great work ethic and is constantly working for 90 minutes and I''m sorry again but this season he has not done this one bit.  Chris Martin gets moaned at for laziness but Holt is more lazy by far.  This season he has looked slow, tired and just not interested.  This apparent awesome work rate is just not there any more one bit.

 

Someone also said to Brendo that he should wtach the football match properly because they didn''t agree with him.  Well I suggest that they watch a match properly and see how poor, and he has been very poor, Grant Holt has been.  Lambert wasn''t afraid to drop Hoolahan and Korey Smith so he shouldn''t be afraid of dropping Holt, captain or not. 

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I wish we could drop some fans . . . . . . . from a great height . . . . . .

Seriously this thread really does highlight the lack of knowledge of the beautiful game some people have.

Having played and now managing teams I see what Holt does. He is immense. All of the off the ball moments that some people wont see.

As for trying to win every ball in the air - Holt is more intelligent than that. He has a good look about and makes a decision whether he should root in and try and control the ball and make it difficult for a defender to head it clear or whether to jump and try and win a flick on etc. A lot of this depends on the proximity of other players - there is no point winning a header if its not going to go anywhere useful, you almost are better off making it as hard as possible for an opposing player to make clear enough contact on it or trying to hold them off, let the ball drop to your feet, control it and hold it up.

As for his attitude - its defend from the front, fight for all causes. How can that ever be questioned?

As for your last comment Brendo, you really are a bit of a mug. Read my post before about the reasons why Holt pulls out wide a lot when we play the diamond formation, today with a 4-4-2 he did it a lot less - notice that?

Holt has had a couple of bad games when he was coming back from injury but there weren''t rubbish, just poor in comparison to the form we know he has which he seems to be returning to. He is a very intelligent player, its the reason why he is able to play and link up with Hoolahan, Martin and Jackson amongst others.

I think people that question him need to look at the alternatives. Jackson wants to play on the shoulder of the last man and try and get in some good running in behind the oppo defence. Martin likes to come deep and attack from an angle and is more bustly than out-right pacey. OJ is a bit of both and at the same height as Holt doesn''t give the same physical presence, he is more quick footed and again pacey.

Holt is a handful and what he does is entirely dissrupt defences. As I have said before - it is pretty rare that you find target men that score absolutely buckets of goals at this level or higher, and those that do are truly quality - like Drogba.

Iwan averaged about 15/16 goals a season for us. I think Holt is on a similar level and will get around that many for us. And to be honest he is much more agile and quick with his feet (note thats not pace) than Iwan and he is quicker.

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I think Holt is getting worse game by game!. No movement and even the lack of willingness to work is poor, twin that with his winning of virtually zero headers in two home games against struggling sides is simply not good enough!.

The only time he seems to get any exercise is when his gob is in full motion with the constant ranting/moaning at the officials & other team mates!

I also do not understand Lamberts infatuation with playing somebody that is currently out of his depth and in shoddy form to say the least!, his substitution of Jackson today was unbelievable because in the last 10 mins if anyone was going to score for us it was Simeon & his pace on the break.....

Jackson/Martin to start all the way for me unless the "wide ass" can sort himself out ;0) 

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Holt is a hero! Some Norwich fans are so fickle it''s unreal.

He''s one of our leading scorers again this season (5/6 goals?) & has also chipped in with some assists. Him and Jackson are developing a good partnership IMO.

Why is it some fans feel the need to have a whipping boy?? Last season it was Russell Martin, I thought this season it was Ruddy but now some people are having pops at our captain. 

I really do dispair sometimes

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Chicken, you say you know more about football than most and you say that most of us don''t know anything about the game.  Weak statement, my opinion is my opinion and who says yours is the right one and who the hell are you to tell me that my opinion is completey wrong and I need dropping from a great height?  What level did you play and manage at may I ask? 

 

You say about his off the ball runs, yeah, he makes them, and thats not what I''m complaning about, it''s when he gets the ball where he is poor.  He gets into positions well but when he is recieving the ball he is absolutely shocking and when he has the ball he is too.

 

Also you mention that he knows when and when not to jump for a header and he does well at that, but he really, really dosn''t.  Unless of course you think backing into a defender every time is a good thing?  And when he does actually jump he never wins them.

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Holty puts himself about like no other striker we''ve had for a long time. Even if he does not win the ball, he makes sure the defender knows he is there. The only thing that concerns me is his lack of efforts on goal.

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Is this a genuinely serious debate?? We''re genuinely slagging off Holt?? After all his effort getting us back in the Championship?? He''s still our leading scorer & (i think) assister?? We''re 4th in the table a quarter of the way through the season... he''s our captain and talisman, the one man who I feel safe in the knowledge that will give his all for the cause every game and our fans are saying he should be replaced dropped, i''m a little digusted by this topic.

 

The OP had a point in that he looked a little off colour and unfit a few weeks back but i''ve seen no reason to slate him in his past few games.

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@Boyo'': If you are actually going to bother posting on any internet site please bother to read posts thoroughly and consider your replies or else freely make yourself look a bit silly.

''Seriously this thread really does highlight the lack of knowledge of the beautiful game some people have.

Having played and now managing teams I see what Holt does. He is immense. All of the off the ball moments that some people wont see.''

Were my words. Where did I say ''most of'' anyone know ''nothing'' about the game? Where did I say I know more?

Oh and you are quite entitled to your opinion, just the same as I am entitled to post my opinion which happens to contradict yours.

However I see things greatly different to what you have posted. I also have seen the team struggle to cope without Holt on the pitch. I would also like to know who would ''muscle and bustle'' the opposition defences because other than Martin who is not as good, and not in form, who could do it?

Oh yes and lets dip into that miracle pot of gold in January and buy a 20+ goal a season target man for less than £2million.

Holt is doing just fine especially considering he played no part in pre season and is only just getting up to speed. You can criticise him for some performances this season but then the rest of the team have a lot to answer for in those as well. He is right now one of our two best strikers. End of.

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The emperor''s new clothes spring to mind. Yet again Holt was totally dominated in the air, and contributed very little on the deck, but still the excuses for him pour onto this forum.

Great work ethic, but not good enough to be the primary striker in a team aiming to reach the Premiership. Harsh, maybe, but true.

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I don''t see him as being our primary goal threat. For me thats Jackson, i''l be happy if Holt hits 12-15 goals and carries on assisting Jackson on his way to 20+

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[quote user="Beauseant"]

The emperor''s new clothes spring to mind. Yet again Holt was totally dominated in the air, and contributed very little on the deck, but still the excuses for him pour onto this forum.

Great work ethic, but not good enough to be the primary striker in a team aiming to reach the Premiership. Harsh, maybe, but true.

[/quote]''Great'' work ethic? Hmm... Well when he is offside, he just gently strolls back, which, in my opinion is pretty poor work ethic. His attempts at headers sometimes are quite frankly pathetic for a man of such build. How has he scored his 3 goals this season, and his assist yesterday? That''s right, from crosses when he is IN THE FUCKING BOX. Guess that means he should go out wide though? [I]So much love for Boyo'' right now though. As for holding the ball up, I always thought Oli Johnson was good at this, very good in fact. However this was always against tired legs. I''d like to see him given a chance anyway, thoughts?

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Dear me, words absolutely fail me.  I just cannot comprehend how anybody gracing this earth would rather see Chris Martin out there instead of Holt.  Anyone up for a breakaway forum without some of the people that grace this board with their ridiculous and attention seeking opinions?

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As for your last post about Oli Johnson, I think he will offer more to our side coming off the bench than C. Martin at the minute. He had a good half hour yesterday and did absolutely fcuk all.

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[quote user="Captain Holts Controversial Jokes"]As for your last post about Oli Johnson, I think he will offer more to our side coming off the bench than C. Martin at the minute. He had a good half hour yesterday and did absolutely fcuk all.[/quote]True, but the whole team were awful in that period. We just hung on, which did work but was a poor tactic. What are we to do with Martin then?

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[quote user="Beauseant"]

The emperor''s new clothes spring to mind. Yet again Holt was totally dominated in the air, and contributed very little on the deck, but still the excuses for him pour onto this forum.

Great work ethic, but not good enough to be the primary striker in a team aiming to reach the Premiership. Harsh, maybe, but true.

[/quote]

 

Guess because he scored so many goals last season and is ''''God'''' status that we''re not allowed to critisise him Beau .

Does anyone honestly think that he will score enough goals this season to help fire us is into the Premiership  ?

I still think we need a proven championship striker to give him competition.

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Brendo, correct me if I''m wrong but didn''t Holt win an extremely important ball into the box yesterday, you know the one that left Jackson with an open goal?

Just like he won an extremely important ball into the box Weds night, you know, the one that ended up in the back if the net. Had the defense not gone into self-destruct, we may have been celebrating another 3 points.

Why does he need to win every ball into the box or even challenge for that matter. Holt is not as big as people think, he''s 6'' tall. Wheater (Boro) and Gardner (Palace) are both 6''5" and premier league quality centre backs but yet you expect Holt, who has played the last 2 seasons in leagues 1 and 2 respectively to be winning aerial challenges with them. You don''t want much do you?

The final point I would make is that both times mentioned above, the ball was crossed in much lower and allowed Holt to use his strength and positional ability to get in front of the defender. Had these crosses been higher in the air, he probably wouldn''t have got to the ball.

So perhaps we should play to our captains strengths and gave him some decent service (which has been non existent for much of the last 2 games) rather than just sticking aimless high balls into the box.

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[quote user="cityangel"][quote user="Beauseant"]

The emperor''s new clothes spring to mind. Yet again Holt was totally dominated in the air, and contributed very little on the deck, but still the excuses for him pour onto this forum.

Great work ethic, but not good enough to be the primary striker in a team aiming to reach the Premiership. Harsh, maybe, but true.

[/quote]

 

Guess because he scored so many goals last season and is ''''God'''' status that we''re not allowed to critisise him Beau .

Does anyone honestly think that he will score enough goals this season to help fire us is into the Premiership  ?

I still think we need a proven championship striker to give him competition.

[/quote]I think many of us have our sights set on consolidation rather than promotion to the La la League.....By going up before we are ready it would cause far more problems that it''s worth. After all.... look what happened to the great Robert Chase because supporters expectations reached psychopathic levels.Today a thrtashing by Manchester City.... tomorrow a flukey draw against Accrington Stanley.

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The doubts raised over Grant Holt and his performances so far this season by the likes of City Angel, Brendo, Boyo, Gazza and Beausant in this thread are spot on in my opinion.It is about time that some fans got their heads out of the clouds and realised that there is no smoke without fire, instead of picking fights with their own fans because they have a differing opinion to them which may actually be closer to the the truth than their own personal view.Substituting Simeon Jackson for Chris Martin instead of Grant Holt yesterday was an awful decsion by Lambert.  Luckily enough it was one that we got away with again.  Similar to when he dragged Chris Martin off at Preston a few weeks ago when Chris Martin had absolutely ran his knackers off for 75 mins to cover the ground for the unfit Holt.Of course the majority of City fans were criticising Simeon Jackson pre season and after the first game of the season, despite him being one of the 4 real quality additions that Lambert made to the squad during the summer transfer window.  It says it all to me that Jacko is up there to be leading scorer in a 3rd of the time that others have spent on the pitch this season and our fans have still not put a song together for him, or learnt to praise him a little from the terraces!Far too much over protection of players who have done a job for us in the past, rather than looking towards who can lead the club more successfully in to the future for me.  The kind of "no criticism rationale" that led us to being relegated to the 3rd tier for the first time in 50 years lets not forget.

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[quote user="Clint"]Brendo, correct me if I''m wrong but didn''t Holt win an extremely important ball into the box yesterday, you know the one that left Jackson with an open goal?

Just like he won an extremely important ball into the box Weds night, you know, the one that ended up in the back if the net. Had the defense not gone into self-destruct, we may have been celebrating another 3 points.

Why does he need to win every ball into the box or even challenge for that matter. Holt is not as big as people think, he''s 6'' tall. Wheater (Boro) and Gardner (Palace) are both 6''5" and premier league quality centre backs but yet you expect Holt, who has played the last 2 seasons in leagues 1 and 2 respectively to be winning aerial challenges with them. You don''t want much do you?

The final point I would make is that both times mentioned above, the ball was crossed in much lower and allowed Holt to use his strength and positional ability to get in front of the defender. Had these crosses been higher in the air, he probably wouldn''t have got to the ball.

So perhaps we should play to our captains strengths and gave him some decent service (which has been non existent for much of the last 2 games) rather than just sticking aimless high balls into the box.[/quote]The one which Holt would have tried to finish himself if he was fit enough and able enough to reach it and connect with it properly you mean?  It''s a good job that Jacko has some sharper reactions is all I can say!What else did Grant Holt do in his 90 mins on the pitch yesterday, apart from argue with the ref and fall on the floor after backing in to defenders and making himself look stupid in front of a ref that was having none of it may I ask?

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[quote user="Smudger"]It is about time that some fans got their heads out of the clouds and realised that there is no smoke without fire, instead of picking fights with their own fans because they have a differing opinion to them which may actually be closer to the the truth than their own personal view.[/quote]Smudger, two things...1. Did you get my email on running?2. Are you best placed to encourage people not to pick fights with fellow fans because of a difference of opinion?

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