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Hunter106

Chris Martin vs Jackson

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I''m a big Martin fan but I just felt that Jackson starting today was right after Hull.

What I didn''t understand, unless it was a fitness issue, is why Chrissy replaced Jackson when Leicester were chasing the game and over committing themselves going forwards.

Not 20/20 hindsight; just that to punish a team on the break one would imagine that pace would be a more effective weapon, no?

 

But Paul Lambert is God, and we''re third [:D]

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[quote user="City1st"]"Seems if you critacise a player on here or on canary call you just get shot down."

Yes, and rightly so if it can''t be backed. There seems to be an absurd position taken by some that merely holding an opnion makes it worthy. (ps there''s a clue in your words)

"And last season he was playing against? Thats right Wycombe and Leyton Orient "

So was he rubbish then - or were the twenty games you saw him play before those games ?

Your thoughts are idiotic and contradictory - they are based on you bending facts to fit your argument.[/quote]

So in todays game, tell me one time he treatened goal or did anything productive with the ball other than playing it backwards. He has scored 1 this season, that is the fact that backs up my point. He IS lazy, when Jackson released the ball today he was quick to get into good positions, and he also chases the ball down when the goalkeeper has it or an oppositions defender. These are two things that Martin does not do. The reason why I do not go to many games is because I work on saturdays, and as I am going uni next year I cannot afford to be splashing out £25. Sometimes listening on the radio I actually wonder if Martin is playing, especially last week, and lets be honest we arent exactly scoring that many and if we are seriuosly going to challenge for a top 6 spot then we need two strikers firing on all cylinders. Hot claims he is not fully fit, but Martin has no excuse. You might get a few goals by being lazy and being in the right position at the right time, but if martin just put in that extra bit of effort he could have so many more.

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"today I think has hilighted that Martin simply isnt good enough"

"but if martin just put in that extra bit of effort he could have so many more"

So what is it ? If he is not good enough all the effort in the world won''t help.

"and as I am going uni next year "

Ah, you have your A level results already then ?

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[quote user="CambridgeCanary"]There was a 10 year old sat behind me in the Jarrd who kept squeaking "Martin you are s lazy bum" and then giggling. Wasn''t you by any chance?[/quote]

 

No, that was me. Damn those helium balloons![H]

 

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[quote user="thirdlion v2"]There is such irrational, knee jerk reactions to players on here.

Chris Martin was woeful against Hull on Saturday and was deservedly dropped. Simeon came in and offered something different, and did more to worry the Leicester defence in the first half than Chris Martin usually manages in a game. He had pace, he was always looking for the ball, he put players under pressure and closed down, he offered passes, he was always looking to get involved. Chris Martin is a good player and a great finisher, but he''s not in good form, and people need to realise that. Yes, he offers something different, but at the moment he offers very little. Simeon had a good game and did enough to, I expect, keep his place against Bristol City.
[/quote]

Completely agree with this

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Must be watching a different couple of players to you. Jackson had 1 shot all game? Barely touched the ball, people slate Martin at every oppotunity but he obviously isn''t getting the service he needs to score goals like Jackson wasn''t, I''m not gonna judge Jackson on 1 performance but in that game he done no more than Martin. Martin, lazy? Don''t make me laugh, he looks so much fitter from last season, can make runs all game. Martin has good enough finishing to be able to score with one chance a game so if he was to play it wouldn''t bother me. Neither of them have had the service needed. But Jackson was never any better than Martin.

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Jackson deserves his chance ahead of Martin now. He had pace and did cause them some problems. Martin has looked poor for ages which was why he has ben dropped. When he came on with 20 minutes to go he had no impact at all

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[quote user="Yorkshire Canary"]Jackson deserves his chance ahead of Martin now. He had pace and did cause them some problems. Martin has looked poor for ages which was why he has ben dropped. When he came on with 20 minutes to go he had no impact at all[/quote]

 

Jackson was totally anonymous apart from one shot.

This "poor" Chris Martin would be the one who scored the winner against Barnsley and has spent sevearl games doing the most of the running for the pie eater next to him, would it?

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If you prefer someone who runs around aimlessly all the time, before getting boyishly knocked off the ball by the men he is up against, then Jackson seems to be your man.

If you prefer someone who drops off, uses the ball intelligently, is deceptively strong and an excellent finisher, then it''s Chrissy all the way. He didn''t have the best game against Hull, but I wouldn''t have left him out, and I thought Jackson''s anonymity last night did Chris Martin a big favour, even if it didn''t really explain why Lambert was so keen to sign Jackson.

There is much more to football than running around a lot. Martin''s supposed laziness is itself a lazy stereotype, based on a bit of arrogance when he was a young player. He uses his energy intelligently. When I see Holt on the left wing trying to cross to himself, I wish he would do more of the same.

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Never said Martin was lazey, just poor which is different. 1 good goal in 8 does not make him the great hipe that so many think. Jackson did not have a lot of service but his pace did unsettle them and he had a good shot. he will be a good threat on the break away from home.

Against Gillingham martin looked very good, but he was up against lower league defenders, they are bigger and faster by and large in the championship whichis why he is finding it hard, especially as this side make a hat full of chances most games

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[quote user="Hunter106"]So Jackon had great balls played to him did he? How can you ever score without decent balls to your feet. Chris Martin is lazy, having watched him last season and todays game, he brings nothing to the game. We looked a worse team when Jackson came off, I though he looked the most likely to score. Okay Holt hasnt got the goals but he isnt fully fit is he, whats martins excuse for the lack of goals?[/quote]

Grow up.

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I thought Simeon did alright last night, considering he had very little to work with. He''s only a little fella but he did try to put himself about a bit. That shot on his left foot from the corner of the box to the far corner was a very good effort - enough to suggest the guy will be a threat if we get the right service to him.

But, as always, it''s the way people see things. There was a chap near me who was on his case from very early on about his work rate. And yet I''m sure that had it been Chris Martin out there making the same movements around the pitch there''d have been no such criticism coming from the guy near me.

I like Chris Martin as a player but I''d be sticking my head in the sand if I thought he''d been working his nuts off and playing well lately - because he hasn''t been.

I know some people go on about how he''s a very intelligent player (which he is) so that''s why he doesn''t run around all over the place, however, sometimes in football you''ve got force the issue a bit and that''s something he doesn''t always do very well. Sometimes he''s a passenger, which was very much the case against Hull.

 

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[quote user="city till i die"]why come on here posting your dribble then!!

bugger of to where you come from!![/quote]Well done CITD what an absolutely disgusting comment, your a complete knobhead. The lads obviously a youngster, and even if he isnt, just because you disagree with his point doesnt give you the right to tell him to bugger off does it? This is a forum of fans opinions is it not?He''s only making an observation that many have done about Martin.

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[quote user="Beauseant"]

[quote user="Yorkshire Canary"]Jackson deserves his chance ahead of Martin now. He had pace and did cause them some problems. Martin has looked poor for ages which was why he has ben dropped. When he came on with 20 minutes to go he had no impact at all[/quote]

 

Jackson was totally anonymous apart from one shot.

This "poor" Chris Martin would be the one who scored the winner against Barnsley and has spent sevearl games doing the most of the running for the pie eater next to him, would it?

[/quote]Absolutely spot on. These Martin detractors need to ask themselves why Wes suddenly found an extra yard or two of space available once Martin came on, and why we conceded against Hull when he went off. Chrissy is much more capable of occupying the defence than Jackson, and is extremely good at holding the ball up front and bringing other players into the match.Yes, a striker needs to score goals, and of course I would like Martin to start putting more away - but I don''t think there''s any doubt we look a much more balanced side, which is more likely to hold the ball up-front (rather than losing it almost straight away) when he is in the side. He''s a young, intelligent striker who is no where near his peak yet, a local

lad who wants to play for the club, a player who was superb for us last

season, and more importantly, an academy product - yet people still seem

to want to slag him off unreasonably?!

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[quote user="Hunter106"]I know the debate about Chris Martin has gone on, but really today I think has hilighted that Martin simply isnt good enough. Jackson was continuously moving on and off the ball. has pace and was alway applying pressure to their goalkeeper when he had the ball. Yeah ok he hasnt scored but he has the same amount of goals in the league as Martin, 1, and has played half the time that Martin has. When Martin came on today he showed so little pace and imagination despite being rested and coming on against 10 men. Yes he is local, and yes he has scored goals, but every time I have seen him play he seems to be so lazy, and he is hardly a great role model with his attitude and off the pitch problems. I think its time people realise that we have better strikers at the club.[/quote] I agree, but the annoying thing is he shpuld be able to put the same amount of effort in as Holt who is a lot older.  I know he will put the ball away given the chances, but his lazy attitude isn''t in keeping with the rest of the team.

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[quote user="silver fox"][quote user="Hunter106"]I know the debate about Chris Martin has gone on, but really today I think has hilighted that Martin simply isnt good enough. Jackson was continuously moving on and off the ball. has pace and was alway applying pressure to their goalkeeper when he had the ball. Yeah ok he hasnt scored but he has the same amount of goals in the league as Martin, 1, and has played half the time that Martin has. When Martin came on today he showed so little pace and imagination despite being rested and coming on against 10 men. Yes he is local, and yes he has scored goals, but every time I have seen him play he seems to be so lazy, and he is hardly a great role model with his attitude and off the pitch problems. I think its time people realise that we have better strikers at the club.[/quote] I agree, but the annoying thing is he shpuld be able to put the same amount of effort in as Holt who is a lot older.  I know he will put the ball away given the chances, but his lazy attitude isn''t in keeping with the rest of the team.[/quote]

 

Christ, it''s like Tweedledee and Tweedledumber.......

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I don''t get the criticisime of Simeon Jackson.  He showed he was strong, especially for a little man, he actually won a fair amount in the air despite his height disadvantage, he continously got into to good positions for a ball to be played through but no one found him and the one real chance of goal he got he worked the keeper.  He could not have done much more last night.

Jackson is not a big striker and is quick and small therefore needs balls played through on the ground for him or plenty of good crosses and service.  He did not get that and he made a good job out of what he did get.  I would probably prefer C.Martin to be playing and I was a bit sceptical when I first heard the team but I think Jackson done plenty to keep his place for Bristol on Saturday.

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[quote user="Yellows"]Anyone that calls Martin lazy does not have a football brain whatsoever, they''re the same people who slate Hoolahan on here FFS![/quote]

[Y]

I don''t understand what people want sometimes.Holt does a lot of running,but then gets criticized for being out of position.Martin is normally in a position to keep the ball up,but then gets criticized for not running about.[:S]

Martin is a good YOUNG player,with a footballing brain,that isn''t going to run around all night chasing lost causes,using up energy.Ok he has his bad games,but who doesn''t?

Am i the only one getting fed up with the irrational hatreds of our own players?

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At the end of the day all I am doing is making an observation from what I have seen. Okay Martin may be better defensively than Jackson, but thats not what we employ him to do, we have defenders and midfielsers for that job. If like you say his role is to hold the ball up then he is too similar to Holt, in this league you cant have two slow strikers up front. He needs to be getting into positions to expose the oppositions defenders. Today after the second goal things really started to improve, until Jackson was taken off and we started conceding again, and whoever that said on here that Martin allowed Hoolahan more space, well from what I remember he was subbed pretty much after martin came on. I have no reason to hate Chris, I would love to see him do well as anybody else, but I really think people need to take their tinted glasses off about him.

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Sorry mate but becasue people don''t agree with you doesn''t mean they''re wearing tinted glasses. To be honest I could say the same about you not being able to see what he brings to the team.

Where I''m sat I see a young prospect who brings much more that just rushing about after the ball. He times his runs superbly, hence he often gets that extra yard of space. For all his dashing about yesterday Jackson never managed to get much of a chance - he''s certainly fast but not in his thinking. He may well improve but he has a way to go to be up to Martin''s level - in my opinion.

Like many on here I feel the team is much more balanced with Martin in the team, mainly because he brings others into the attack, his passing is inventive and his touch is first class. Way to go as you would expect from someone his age but he has a lot going for him.

As for lazy! I''m sorry but I really think that is unfair. He might not chase down back passes to the keeper but he makes intellegent runs into space for the whole 90 mins. You pays your money and you makes your choice but lazy he is most definitely not.

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Calling Chris Martin lazy is lazy.I haven''t really seen Jackson play, so won''t comment on him (see what I''ve done there) but the lazy stereotype is so last-season-but-one. Was he lazy last season? Well, fine by me if he scores at that rate by being lazy. Or did he try harder last season and now we''re back in the Championship he can''t be arsed? He''s a fantastic prospect who I think we''ll struggle to hold on to for much longer.And Holt''s hardly scoring like last season either is he? Why not have a pop at him too?

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