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Spot on muddy!

In answer to yourself mr carrow, I''m a bundle of nerves every game. I often find my leg twitching involuntarily as the other team takes it forward, and when I do shout out I sound like a cross between a choir boy and somebody who''s just been caught smuggling at the airport... Its hard to say what constitutes a good atmosphere. One thing I would say is that I don''t think a couple of hundred people yelping "yarmy" or insults about the other team is. For me football is at its best when it''s tense, exciting and over the top. When a city player belts a ball well over but the crowd is so excited they all go "ooooh". When we launch a counter and the crowd go into a state of delirium. That''s the stuff that makes me tingle, the stuff that everyone can join in on, and more importantly perhaps can get a reaction in the players themselves.

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Having lived in Manchester for the last four years, I can assure you that you are in fact wrong.

They have a massive following in Salford but not in Manchester itself, which is city dominated.

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In the days of communist Russia I went to a Moscow Dynamo v Moscow Spartak Game. The Stadium was all seater and at the end of each row sat an armed guard... his gun clearly visible. Round the top of the Stadium where marksmen and outside lined up were Water Cannons. Through out the game snatch squads pulled spectators, seemingly at random out of the crowd and took them heaven knows where.

We are very lucky to be able to shout and sing at Carrow, and make obsene gestures at visiting fans like the moran who sits in front of me. We are also lucky in being able to be quite or use our Blackberry if we want to. Democracy and freedom are easily snatched away by the intolerent....even here in Australia you have to vote or you are fined..... the joy of this Notice Board is that most are tolerent and understanding of the others point of view. Long may it be so.

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Understood Bobert - but I was wasn''t saying the Blackberry brigade shouldn''t text or twitter as much or at all, I was simply failing to comprehend why it was done, whilst the reason they bought a ticket in the first place is playing out in front of them.

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[quote user="7rew"]Having lived in Manchester for the last four years, I can assure you that you are in fact wrong.

They have a massive following in Salford but not in Manchester itself, which is city dominated.[/quote]And all city fans are from stockport. went to uni there, no cahcne to city "dominate" manchester. its an urban myth. was even a report that showed theres more utd st holders in manchester than city.  funny for a team that has the whole of manchester behind them, plus stockport, theres always plenty of empty blue seats in their huge 47k stadium. man city spunk 100 odd mil in the summer, top 4 is the minimum required, excitement is rife, still only get 44k at the weekend.

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[quote user="Mr.Carrow"]One question i would have for the quiet majority at CR (and those who have admitted being quiet at games on this thread), is whether you prefer a vibrant, passionate, supportive atmosphere at matches or a quiet library-like atmosphere?  If it`s the latter, fair enough, if it`s the former- how about you help create the atmosphere you enjoy, rather than expecting others to do it for you?[/quote]

Spot on.

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[quote user="City1st"]"I mean you dont go to a rock concert and sit down......"

Nor would you go to a football match and expect to join in the game



" In his lifetime he has been to over 2,000 home games" absolute twaddle !

With a very rough average of 25 home games a season it would take him 80 years to achieve that total. Even were he to have started when he was a toddler there were very few games during the war.

Posting up nonsense doesn''t help the debate ... or yourself.







[/quote]

It is not ''twaddle'' though, its true.  I''m not sad enough to make something up like that.  He is a very old bloke who goes to every single game and misses one once in a blue moon.  I don''t know how true it is because this is just what he has told me but he really isn''t the person to lie and neither am I.  2,000 home games is possible if you have been going since you were a kid and you are now a very old bloke like he is.

If you don''t believe me, fair enough, I understand.  But he is more of a fan than most people on here will ever be.

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[quote user="Mr.Carrow"]One question i would have for the quiet majority at CR (and those who have admitted being quiet at games on this thread), is whether you prefer a vibrant, passionate, supportive atmosphere at matches or a quiet library-like atmosphere?  If it`s the latter, fair enough, if it`s the former- how about you help create the atmosphere you enjoy, rather than expecting others to do it for you?[/quote]

I much prefer a good atmosphere and I would be lying if I said I don''t.  But I go to games to watch Norwich play.  Not stand up and sing as I find when I have been to away games I can''t really concentrate on the game whilst standing and chanting.  When the atmosphere is a bit dull I don''t sit there and think "Come on the Barclay sing up, your absolutely shocking today" I just carry on watching the game as I am not bothered whether it is loud or quiet because I go there to watch the game.

If you think your sort of doing a job for us down the other end by singing and being ''loud'' then that is a bit silly really.

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"It is not ''twaddle'' though, its true" (a)  I''m not sad enough to make

something up like that.  He is a very old bloke who goes to every single

game and misses one once in a blue moon.  I don''t know how true it is" (b)

Assume no games missed it would still require nearer 85 than 80 years

attending home games. I know there are cup games, but for much of the

time there were only 21 home league games.

Given no games between ''39-''45 and him starting going at age 5 he would

needed to have been born in 1915 and would now be 95. Starting to go to

games at age 10 and he would now be 100 !1000 away games also beggars belief - do the ''sums''.

ps I''ve no doubt he is a great fan (and that fact should not be judged on how many times he joins in the ''cuckoo clock song'' either)

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"It is not ''twaddle'' though, its true. I''m not sad enough to make something up like that. He is a very old bloke who goes to every single game and misses one once in a blue moon. I don''t know how true it is because this is just what he has told me but he really isn''t the person to lie and neither am I. 2,000 home games is possible if you have been going since you were a kid and you are now a very old bloke like he is

If you don''t believe me, fair enough, I understand. But he is more of a fan than most people on here will ever be."

But does he add to the atmosphere?

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I have no problem with people going and not singing and shouting - I personally really can''t sing for toffee so don''t really sing too much.

What I do have a problem with is when the quiet ones try and prevent you from shouting words of encouragement or - heaven forbid - any Anglo-Saxon four-letter words.

I''ve sat in the City Stand with a female friend who was chided for saying a slighter ruder word than ''poo''; been in the Barclay where people have complained about foul language being used near their children (don''t TAKE them to The Barclay then!); and, my personal favourite, been told off by someone for sitting in a seat which was reserved for her bag.

If we''re going to go down this good-fan, bad-fan avenue, I often find it''s the ''quiet'' fans that are always the first to jump on the teams'' back the moment a pass is misplaced. These people tend to go just to have a grumble whereas the louder, noisier, swearier people go to actually support the team. A massive blanket (quite apt though!) statement I''ll admit!

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[quote user="Boyo"]

[quote user="Mr.Carrow"]One question i would have for the quiet majority at CR (and those who have admitted being quiet at games on this thread), is whether you prefer a vibrant, passionate, supportive atmosphere at matches or a quiet library-like atmosphere?  If it`s the latter, fair enough, if it`s the former- how about you help create the atmosphere you enjoy, rather than expecting others to do it for you?[/quote]

I much prefer a good atmosphere and I would be lying if I said I don''t.  But I go to games to watch Norwich play.  Not stand up and sing as I find when I have been to away games I can''t really concentrate on the game whilst standing and chanting.  When the atmosphere is a bit dull I don''t sit there and think "Come on the Barclay sing up, your absolutely shocking today" I just carry on watching the game as I am not bothered whether it is loud or quiet because I go there to watch the game.

If you think your sort of doing a job for us down the other end by singing and being ''loud'' then that is a bit silly really.

[/quote]

Ok so just imagine those people down the other end had your attitude and sat with their arms folded during games.  You`d never get your good atmosphere which you "much prefer" and i`m sure you`d understand that results on the pitch and the clubs reputation would suffer.

There is a pretty obvious distinction between a supporter and a spectator at games and i`m sorry, but you`re coming across as the latter. 

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Doesn''t this thread show just how different city fans are. Thank God there are four stands and season tickets. I have been at the back of E block in the Lower Barclay for a good few years, but have stood and sat in all four stands over the years. Nowadays to fit in with family demands I sometimes have to move to the South Stand. Whilst admitting it''s a damn choice view of the game and refreshment queues are shorter (should you wish to use them) that''s in essence all it has to recommend it.

I know a few on here try to make some noise and stand up during renditions of OTBC etc, but it''s harder work in that stand sitting being quiet. The most noise I have experienced is the rustling of sweet wrappers. Yes, some of us do go to watch (and not participate in any songs or get involved in anything which is being played out before us). Frustrating and frankly only a shade worse than missing the match itself IMO for me to have to sit there out of choice. I wonder of those who are generally not happy with their seat, are you really where you would prefer to be, or does demand/price dominate your choice of stands.

I am soon for the River End, I fear, (in a year or two I will succumb to the family area with my grand daughter) - this is for pricing reasons only and she''s far too young for a permanent place on the back row of E block just yet. What this will be like I don''t know, anything like the South Stand and she can''t grow up fast enough.

Why was the ground so quiet on Saturday? It''s been a gradual thing I feel over the past few years. Was it the lovely sunshine, the game played at half pace for large segments? Not sure. Our little group tried, as usual, to get some songs going, but it is hard work sometimes, especially if there are few moments of goal action or anything to spark off general singing/spontaneous abuse of the ref etc. Away fans were okay, but nothing special and there''s nothing between the two sets of fans really which guarantees banter.

Are we quieter than most other grounds? No. Unless something happens (ie goal, controversial incident, more than a few home grounds are quiet. Exceptions are Portsmouth, Stoke, these two particularly come to mind. The likes of most of the grounds/sets of fans in this league are no louder. For reasons we have to look at the route football, and in general, the make up of support has gone over the past 20 or so years.

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Try confiscating their wooly mittens on entry.....Making a ''fool of yourself in public'' is just not done in la de da circles.... Delia''s target audience.

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The point of this thread is basically so people can say "I''m a proper fan, you''re not", isn''t it?I''ll have a sing and a shout at games, but so what if some people prefer not to?

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Having attended a few games at Anfield over the past couple of seasons (magical European nights etc) I can confirm that only on occasions does the Kop appear to make much noise (and that includes at the derby games & against Man U)...It would appear that this is not just an issue at Carrow Road.   Think it''s all down to the modern stadiums, the fact that they''re all seaters and that the demographic has changed...

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Jesus. Fickle to a whole new level.

Just because one may not stand up and chant makes them no less of a fan.

This "I''m a proper fan" edge to the thread is nonsense. We all support the same team, we are all one. Somebody may live in the Riverside Apartments and may have had a season ticket for 5 years, whereas someone else might have travelled from London for 5 years, etc etc,

At the end of the day, we''re all fans. At games, there''s no obligation on us to get up and shout and chant etc. We go to see the game, the atmosphere when it''s there is a bonus.

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I have nothing against those who choose to worship their team in hushed reverence, but I have to say that the most enjoyable matches at Carra, as far as I''m concerned ,have been those when the crowd has found its voice and lifted the roofs off the stands. Mind you, they have been matches which have tended to be end to end with exciting attacking football, so people are bound to make plenty of noise.

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I agree, but it seems some don''t. I do stand up and chant mostly, but I don''t think I''m better than the bloke next to me who is watching quietly, and has a "tut" when a bad pass is made. We are all fans of the same team, it takes all types doesn''t it?

Maybe we should ban all of the quiet fans from Carrow Rd and see how far we get with crowds of 6000.

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The amount of noise generated is down to many things but usually determined by:

The opposition we are playing

Wether the away fans are noisy or not

The importance of the match

The amount of effort the players are putting in

The quality of the match

The incidents within the match

Wether we are winning or not

We are also not helped by a lack of original songs at the moment. OTBC and y''army can get very tedious.

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[quote user="Fr. Chewy Louie"]The point of this thread is basically so people can say "I''m a proper fan, you''re not", isn''t it?

I''ll have a sing and a shout at games, but so what if some people prefer not to?
[/quote]

So how do you differentiate between a "supporter" and a "spectator/nuetral" at football matches?  Getting behind your team can only be a positive thing and creates the kind of vibrant atmosphere i`m sure 99% of attendees love.  Sitting with your arms folded all game can only be a negative- and as i`ve already said, just imagine if everyone did it....?  Unfortunately there is definately a slightly strange mentality taking hold whereby people love a great atmosphere at a game, but have this selfish expectation that others will provide it for them.

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[quote user="Mr.Carrow"]

[quote user="Fr. Chewy Louie"]The point of this thread is basically so people can say "I''m a proper fan, you''re not", isn''t it?I''ll have a sing and a shout at games, but so what if some people prefer not to?[/quote]

So how do you differentiate between a "supporter" and a "spectator/nuetral" at football matches?  Getting behind your team can only be a positive thing and creates the kind of vibrant atmosphere i`m sure 99% of attendees love.  Sitting with your arms folded all game can only be a negative- and as i`ve already said, just imagine if everyone did it....?  Unfortunately there is definately a slightly strange mentality taking hold whereby people love a great atmosphere at a game, but have this selfish expectation that others will provide it for them.

[/quote]Since you ask, I would differentiate them according to the individual''s motivation for being there.As regards "imagining if everyone did it", well, it isn''t the case, so why worry about it? Some will sing, others won''t.  Obviously from one point of view, it would be amazing if every one of the 25k sang their hearts out for the full ninety, but it just isn''t gonna happen, just like it doesn''t happen at any other ground.

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I think a lot of this is to do with confidence as well. I sit in the upper river end, as when we got our tickets they were cheaper and had the best view compared to what else was available. As a girl who goes to the football with her grandad (who has supported Norwich all his life) and with us already sitting in a quiet area of the ground, I do not have the confidence to start singing at the top of my voice on my own, not only becuase I would be singing on my own, but it also feels very manly..if you get what I mean. However, when I have been to away games, I happily sing along because I am already in that environment. Some may say, because I don''t have the confidence to sing on my own I''m less of a supporter, but I think supporting NCFC ever since I was little, travelling from Nottingham to Noriwhc and back when at university for every home game, and trying to make away games when I can..if not listening to the commentary online without fail, in my eyes makes me no less of a supporter than someone who sings a lot.

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[quote user="Fr. Chewy Louie"][quote user="Mr.Carrow"]

[quote user="Fr. Chewy Louie"]The point of this thread is basically so people can say "I''m a proper fan, you''re not", isn''t it?

I''ll have a sing and a shout at games, but so what if some people prefer not to?
[/quote]

So how do you differentiate between a "supporter" and a "spectator/nuetral" at football matches?  Getting behind your team can only be a positive thing and creates the kind of vibrant atmosphere i`m sure 99% of attendees love.  Sitting with your arms folded all game can only be a negative- and as i`ve already said, just imagine if everyone did it....?  Unfortunately there is definately a slightly strange mentality taking hold whereby people love a great atmosphere at a game, but have this selfish expectation that others will provide it for them.

[/quote]

Since you ask, I would differentiate them according to the individual''s motivation for being there.

As regards "imagining if everyone did it", well, it isn''t the case, so why worry about it? Some will sing, others won''t.  Obviously from one point of view, it would be amazing if every one of the 25k sang their hearts out for the full ninety, but it just isn''t gonna happen, just like it doesn''t happen at any other ground.
[/quote]

I`m really not sure i can fathom why someone who regards themselves as a "supporter" would go to games but behave like a nuetral- particularly if they prefer a vibrant atmosphere.  Very strange.  As for "it isn`t the case" that nobody gets behind the team, true, but then footy boards are full of threads like this bemoaning an increasing lack of atmosphere at games, so if it isn`t the case now it certainly seems to be going that way.  I know from experience that making a bit of noise in the South stand is often frowned upon.

So i`ll lay it on the line- supporters (clue`s in the word) who get behind the team and encourage then to victory are absolutely, 100%, without question better fans than those who choose to sit with their arms folded whilst enjoying the atmosphere created by the efforts of others, a., because the players and manager appreciate it and b., because they are the only people preventing our game becoming a sterile, soulless spectacle about as thrilling as tiddlywinks. 

And i bet when the atmosphere finally dies completely, the first to complain will be those who sit there quietly expecting others to create it for them....

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[quote user="Mr.Carrow"][quote user="Fr. Chewy Louie"][quote user="Mr.Carrow"]

[quote user="Fr. Chewy Louie"]The point of this thread is basically so people can say "I''m a proper fan, you''re not", isn''t it?I''ll have a sing and a shout at games, but so what if some people prefer not to?[/quote]

So how do you differentiate between a "supporter" and a "spectator/nuetral" at football matches?  Getting behind your team can only be a positive thing and creates the kind of vibrant atmosphere i`m sure 99% of attendees love.  Sitting with your arms folded all game can only be a negative- and as i`ve already said, just imagine if everyone did it....?  Unfortunately there is definately a slightly strange mentality taking hold whereby people love a great atmosphere at a game, but have this selfish expectation that others will provide it for them.

[/quote]Since you ask, I would differentiate them according to the individual''s motivation for being there.As regards "imagining if everyone did it", well, it isn''t the case, so why worry about it? Some will sing, others won''t.  Obviously from one point of view, it would be amazing if every one of the 25k sang their hearts out for the full ninety, but it just isn''t gonna happen, just like it doesn''t happen at any other ground.[/quote]

I`m really not sure i can fathom why someone who regards themselves as a "supporter" would go to games but behave like a nuetral- particularly if they prefer a vibrant atmosphere.  Very strange.  As for "it isn`t the case" that nobody gets behind the team, true, but then footy boards are full of threads like this bemoaning an increasing lack of atmosphere at games, so if it isn`t the case now it certainly seems to be going that way.  I know from experience that making a bit of noise in the South stand is often frowned upon.

So i`ll lay it on the line- supporters (clue`s in the word) who get behind the team and encourage then to victory are absolutely, 100%, without question better fans than those who choose to sit with their arms folded whilst enjoying the atmosphere created by the efforts of others, a., because the players and manager appreciate it and b., because they are the only people preventing our game becoming a sterile, soulless spectacle about as thrilling as tiddlywinks. 

And i bet when the atmosphere finally dies completely, the first to complain will be those who sit there quietly expecting others to create it for them....

[/quote]This is the sad truth.  I know of numerous people who take their seats on matchdays yet support another club (or sport) entirely. It''s little more than an afternoon out to keep Johnny happy before he grows up and moves on to more ''serious'' things.Back awhile the 16000 regulars were there because it was part of their DNA..... now it''s little more than a time filler. A glorified ''after school club'' infact.

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