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dylanisabaddog

City fans at Forest

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There have been numerous postings on this site about a Norwich fan getting a hiding after the game.  Hardly surprising really, as he admits to spending the first half winding up the Forest fans.  There is a picture of our fans in the EDP today (centre pages, bottom left) and a good proportion of them are looking in the direction of the Forest fans rather than the pitch.  This picture sums up my experience of the Forest game, a lot of silly little boys engaging in moronic banter with the equally mindless Forest fans.  It''s hardly surprising that one of them got a smack in the mouth after the game.

It''s a shame, if they had concentrated on watching the game they would have seen the best Norwich performance in a long time.

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I was in that corner, and would like to see that photo. Any chance of a scan?The only time I looked up at that for more than a brief glance was once we scored, and that was only because of the abuse they''d been sending our way.Apart from the odd time in the game when we retaliated with some songs (you only sing when you''re winning, etc) I thought we left them well alone.

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[quote user="First Wizard"]There is never justification for violence in football, never.[:@][/quote]

I''m not trying to suggest that it was justified.  It''s simply a fact of life. If you spend 90 minutes winding up a set of fans in their ground one of them will probably be thick enough and angry enough to thump you given the opportunity.

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[quote user="CantonsHero"]I was in that corner, and would like to see that photo. Any chance of a scan?

The only time I looked up at that for more than a brief glance was once we scored, and that was only because of the abuse they''d been sending our way.
Apart from the odd time in the game when we retaliated with some songs (you only sing when you''re winning, etc) I thought we left them well alone.
[/quote]

Quote from your post on an earlier thread -

I can''t help but think if we''d have concentrated on the team as opposed to baiting the stewards and the fans, the poor morphsuit boy would have gotten home unscathed.

Make your mind up!

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I watched the game from the Forest family stand and the people in their were great, although they didn''t know I was a Norwich fan.

Even from the other side of the ground I could see the Canary morph suit so beware you can be spotted if you wear anything that really stands out and therefore could be a target for some banter, sadly if you give it back then you are easily spotted outside....the rest is history, sadly.

I thought the support in terms of numbers was superb but couldn''t comment on the actual banter as I wasn''t close enough. OTBC!

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[quote user="dylanisabaddog"]

[quote user="First Wizard"]There is never justification for violence in football, never.[:@][/quote]

I''m not trying to suggest that it was justified.  It''s simply a fact of life. If you spend 90 minutes winding up a set of fans in their ground one of them will probably be thick enough and angry enough to thump you given the opportunity.

[/quote]Yes you are, just by trying to give reasons.

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"I''m not trying to suggest that it was justified."

That''s exactly what you''re trying to do by giving reasons for why it happened.

Having been there, the lad was singing Norwich songs and the Forest fans clocked him and started giving him $hit singing songs like "What the f****ng hell is that? What the f****ng hell is that?" because of what he was wearing.

To which he just started aiming a few retorts and just making a few gestures to the Forest fans. He hardly did anything to warrant a beating.

What about the Gillingham game when Norwich "fans" in E Block started giving one fat guy in the away stand loads of abuse for about 15 minutes and he gave a few hand gestures and tried to laugh it off. Does that mean those fans should have found him outside and beat the $hit out of him?"

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This makes the game of football , not the fighting but the banter during the game . We should be all able give it and then take it its all part of the atmosphere . However like someone said there is always some that cant take it like a man and end up having a scrap over it .

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[quote user="Rupethebear"]I watched the game from the Forest family stand and the people in their were great, although they didn''t know I was a Norwich fan. Even from the other side of the ground I could see the Canary morph suit so beware you can be spotted if you wear anything that really stands out and therefore could be a target for some banter, sadly if you give it back then you are easily spotted outside....the rest is history, sadly. I thought the support in terms of numbers was superb but couldn''t comment on the actual banter as I wasn''t close enough. OTBC![/quote]But you just have, even after admitting you don''t know.

What do expect away supporters to do? sit on their bloody hands and be quiet just in case they upset someone.

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I enjoy a bit of friendly banter with away fans but don''t go any further!

 

I also pay money to watch the game rather than stare at the oppositions fans!

 

Most of the numpties who like to have go at away fans in the ground from a safe distance would run a mile if they were confronted agressively face to face and would of s hit themselves in they were about in the real hardcore hooligan days of the 70''s. 

 

If you look or trouble where ever you are, sooner or later you''ll find it! 

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[quote user="CallsignViper"]"I''m not trying to suggest that it was justified." That''s exactly what you''re trying to do by giving reasons for why it happened. Having been there, the lad was singing Norwich songs and the Forest fans clocked him and started giving him $hit singing songs like "What the f****ng hell is that? What the f****ng hell is that?" because of what he was wearing. To which he just started aiming a few retorts and just making a few gestures to the Forest fans. He hardly did anything to warrant a beating. What about the Gillingham game when Norwich "fans" in E Block started giving one fat guy in the away stand loads of abuse for about 15 minutes and he gave a few hand gestures and tried to laugh it off. Does that mean those fans should have found him outside and beat the $hit out of him?"[/quote]

 

You''re completely missing the point. Explaining why it happened doesn''t mean I think it was justified.

My point is that a large number of the Norwich fans near me seemed more intent on winding up the Forest fans than watching the match.  The plain fact is that if you behave like that someone well eventually suffer as a consequence.   That doesn''t mean I think the Forest fans were justified in their behaviour, but that''s life I''m afraid.

My main concern is that we are taking fans to away games who miss most of the game because they are too busy trying to antagonise the home supporters. 

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[quote user="Unit"]And I bet they stood all game too - how dare they. I wasn''t there sat but it''s horses for courses.... Some will go just for that reason.....to wind opposition fans up.[/quote]

Fair enough, if that''s what they want to do.  As long as they don''t come bleating on here that someone has given them a hiding.... 

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The sad fact is that you''ll always get a few idiots who can''t differentiate between banter and declarations of war. There is no justification for what happened to the lad in the green suit, but some people (at our club and others) seem to feel that being aggressive or stroppy is justified. I, like everyone around me, spent much of the game on my feet, but the fact is that even when everyone sat down during quiet spells there were a few who continued to stand for no other reason than that they had been asked (politely as far as I could hear) by the stewards,so they were going to stand up to show who was "boss". That''s nothing to do with being passionate or a "true supporter", but it has a great deal to do with being provocative for no good reason.

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I agree. I aint blaming the green man for his attack, but some fans really annoy me by showing more intent for winding up the home fans than watching the mighty Canaries. [:(]I mean a little banter is good fun, but some people just constantly watch and try and pee them off wayyyyyyyyy to much. But then it''s not just Norwich, obviously. Every club has them, asdly. [:(]

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[quote user="Beauseant"]The sad fact is that you''ll always get a few idiots who can''t differentiate between banter and declarations of war. There is no justification for what happened to the lad in the green suit, but some people (at our club and others) seem to feel that being aggressive or stroppy is justified. I, like everyone around me, spent much of the game on my feet, but the fact is that even when everyone sat down during quiet spells there were a few who continued to stand for no other reason than that they had been asked (politely as far as I could hear) by the stewards,so they were going to stand up to show who was "boss". That''s nothing to do with being passionate or a "true supporter", but it has a great deal to do with being provocative for no good reason.[/quote]This is exactly what I was trying to get across in my thread. Thank you Beauseant.

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I have read this with interest and a little annoyance....Firstly I have ''schooled'' my sons in the ''etiquette'' of going to away games and I also was there in the 70''s and 80''s When just being at a game could get you a good hiding.

Now, lets talk about the ''facts'' Joe is a 16 year old City fan that loves his football, , all that know him will tell you that his is a good lad who does not look to fight or anything like that, (look at other threads)

I have taken my sons to hotspots like Cardiff and Stoke, no trouble !

I have let joe get a season ticket in the barclay last season and also go to away games on the club buses or with his older brothers.

This time he went with his friend and his friends Boss, Their was banter going on in the crowd but tell me this..if there was no banter, what kind of match would we have?

And any banter should stay in the ground.

You have all but called my 16 year old son a ''moron'' and should expect a ''beating'' for standing out.

Let me tell you this, without these youngsters in the game, it will die, without characters in the game it will die, without yobs and bullies the game will flourish.

I think your opinion (and thats all it is) is totally wrong and to even suggest, however vaguely, that my son is a moron and should expect a beating says far more about you than it does about a kid who loves his football.

As a footnote, 99% of City fans and Forest fans condem this act of thuggery out of hand, regardless of ''anything'' the went before it............Shame on you, you are obviously a very sad and bitter man. (or woman)

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[quote user="dylanisabaddog"]

[quote user="CallsignViper"]"I''m not trying to suggest that it was justified." That''s exactly what you''re trying to do by giving reasons for why it happened. Having been there, the lad was singing Norwich songs and the Forest fans clocked him and started giving him $hit singing songs like "What the f****ng hell is that? What the f****ng hell is that?" because of what he was wearing. To which he just started aiming a few retorts and just making a few gestures to the Forest fans. He hardly did anything to warrant a beating. What about the Gillingham game when Norwich "fans" in E Block started giving one fat guy in the away stand loads of abuse for about 15 minutes and he gave a few hand gestures and tried to laugh it off. Does that mean those fans should have found him outside and beat the $hit out of him?"[/quote]

 

You''re completely missing the point. Explaining why it happened doesn''t mean I think it was justified.

My point is that a large number of the Norwich fans near me seemed more intent on winding up the Forest fans than watching the match.  The plain fact is that if you behave like that someone well eventually suffer as a consequence.   That doesn''t mean I think the Forest fans were justified in their behaviour, but that''s life I''m afraid.

My main concern is that we are taking fans to away games who miss most of the game because they are too busy trying to antagonise the home supporters. 

[/quote]The fact you use terms such as ''a good hiding'' and ''consequence'' make me wonder whom you are.  We all go to the football and sing songs at the away fans, that doesn''t in anyway mean we want to scrap it out once the game is done.Think you''re wrong here and infact, I think you know you are. 

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[quote user="mtv"]I have read this with interest and a little annoyance....Firstly I have ''schooled'' my sons in the ''etiquette'' of going to away games and I also was there in the 70''s and 80''s When just being at a game could get you a good hiding. Now, lets talk about the ''facts'' Joe is a 16 year old City fan that loves his football, , all that know him will tell you that his is a good lad who does not look to fight or anything like that, (look at other threads) I have taken my sons to hotspots like Cardiff and Stoke, no trouble ! I have let joe get a season ticket in the barclay last season and also go to away games on the club buses or with his older brothers. This time he went with his friend and his friends Boss, Their was banter going on in the crowd but tell me this..if there was no banter, what kind of match would we have? And any banter should stay in the ground. You have all but called my 16 year old son a ''moron'' and should expect a ''beating'' for standing out. Let me tell you this, without these youngsters in the game, it will die, without characters in the game it will die, without yobs and bullies the game will flourish. I think your opinion (and thats all it is) is totally wrong and to even suggest, however vaguely, that my son is a moron and should expect a beating says far more about you than it does about a kid who loves his football. As a footnote, 99% of City fans and Forest fans condem this act of thuggery out of hand, regardless of ''anything'' the went before it............Shame on you, you are obviously a very sad and bitter man. (or woman)[/quote]

What an extraordinary post.  Can I suggest that you go back and read what I said again? 

I sat (or rather stood) near the Brian Clough stand.  A large proprtion of the young fans around me spent most of the game staring at the Forest fans on the upper tier and shouting abusive chants, none of which was particularly clever or funny.  They aren''t ''characters'', they are morons and they are the sort of people that drove people away from football grounds in their thousands in the 70''s and 80''s. 

I am one of the 99% you refer to who find the attack on a City fan unacceptable.  I was simply pointing out that I wasn''t surprised to hear it had happened after having experiencing the atmosphere in the ground. 

You are being extremely naive if you think that "banter" will stay in the ground.  Yesterday proves that isn''t the case.

You ask what sort of game we would have without "banter."  I''m not sure what you mean by banter but if you really think that chanting obscene abuse at opposing fans improves the game then you have my sympathy.  I would rather supporters concentrated on the game and supported their team in a positive way. 

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[quote user="dylanisabaddog"]

[quote user="mtv"]I have read this with interest and a little annoyance....Firstly I have ''schooled'' my sons in the ''etiquette'' of going to away games and I also was there in the 70''s and 80''s When just being at a game could get you a good hiding. Now, lets talk about the ''facts'' Joe is a 16 year old City fan that loves his football, , all that know him will tell you that his is a good lad who does not look to fight or anything like that, (look at other threads) I have taken my sons to hotspots like Cardiff and Stoke, no trouble ! I have let joe get a season ticket in the barclay last season and also go to away games on the club buses or with his older brothers. This time he went with his friend and his friends Boss, Their was banter going on in the crowd but tell me this..if there was no banter, what kind of match would we have? And any banter should stay in the ground. You have all but called my 16 year old son a ''moron'' and should expect a ''beating'' for standing out. Let me tell you this, without these youngsters in the game, it will die, without characters in the game it will die, without yobs and bullies the game will flourish. I think your opinion (and thats all it is) is totally wrong and to even suggest, however vaguely, that my son is a moron and should expect a beating says far more about you than it does about a kid who loves his football. As a footnote, 99% of City fans and Forest fans condem this act of thuggery out of hand, regardless of ''anything'' the went before it............Shame on you, you are obviously a very sad and bitter man. (or woman)[/quote]

What an extraordinary post.  Can I suggest that you go back and read what I said again? 

I sat (or rather stood) near the Brian Clough stand.  A large proprtion of the young fans around me spent most of the game staring at the Forest fans on the upper tier and shouting abusive chants, none of which was particularly clever or funny.  They aren''t ''characters'', they are morons and they are the sort of people that drove people away from football grounds in their thousands in the 70''s and 80''s. 

I am one of the 99% you refer to who find the attack on a City fan unacceptable.  I was simply pointing out that I wasn''t surprised to hear it had happened after having experiencing the atmosphere in the ground. 

You are being extremely naive if you think that "banter" will stay in the ground.  Yesterday proves that isn''t the case.

You ask what sort of game we would have without "banter."  I''m not sure what you mean by banter but if you really think that chanting obscene abuse at opposing fans improves the game then you have my sympathy.  I would rather supporters concentrated on the game and supported their team in a positive way. 

[/quote]

"This picture sums up my experience of the Forest game, a lot of silly little boys engaging in moronic banter with the equally mindless Forest fans. It''s hardly surprising that one of them got a smack in the mouth after the game."

''It''s hardly surprising one of them got a smack in the mouth''

Was he one of them? Did you see him? If you did then you are the only one!

I really do take exception to you and your assumptions. He did nothing to warrant this attack and like I said this veiled attack , by you, on an innocent kid, says a lot of this about you.

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[quote user="AndyJR"][quote user="dylanisabaddog"]

[quote user="CallsignViper"]"I''m not trying to suggest that it was justified." That''s exactly what you''re trying to do by giving reasons for why it happened. Having been there, the lad was singing Norwich songs and the Forest fans clocked him and started giving him $hit singing songs like "What the f****ng hell is that? What the f****ng hell is that?" because of what he was wearing. To which he just started aiming a few retorts and just making a few gestures to the Forest fans. He hardly did anything to warrant a beating. What about the Gillingham game when Norwich "fans" in E Block started giving one fat guy in the away stand loads of abuse for about 15 minutes and he gave a few hand gestures and tried to laugh it off. Does that mean those fans should have found him outside and beat the $hit out of him?"[/quote]

 

You''re completely missing the point. Explaining why it happened doesn''t mean I think it was justified.

My point is that a large number of the Norwich fans near me seemed more intent on winding up the Forest fans than watching the match.  The plain fact is that if you behave like that someone well eventually suffer as a consequence.   That doesn''t mean I think the Forest fans were justified in their behaviour, but that''s life I''m afraid.

My main concern is that we are taking fans to away games who miss most of the game because they are too busy trying to antagonise the home supporters. 

[/quote]

The fact you use terms such as ''a good hiding'' and ''consequence'' make me wonder whom you are.  We all go to the football and sing songs at the away fans, that doesn''t in anyway mean we want to scrap it out once the game is done.

Think you''re wrong here and infact, I think you know you are. 
[/quote]

 

I agree Andy, there is no excuse for what happened to this lad, none.

I can''t believe the OP''s post, i''m stunned lol

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I think a lot of people are missing the point here!!, can I start by saying that I think that what happened to Joe is totally unacceptable and I really hope that the thugs that attacked him are caught and punished, however if it is true that groups of Norwich fans were goading the home fans, it is extremely naive to think that there would not be a reaction to that kind of behaviour, unfortunately it was Joe that was the innocent victim of this reaction (as tends to be the case). Unfortuantely we do not live in a Utopian world where everybody obeys the law/rules and are thoroughly nice people, there is a minority of scumbags out there who spoil it for the majority of us, and untill all of the decent majority stand up to the minority it will always be the case...and I say that as somebody who has been smacked in the face for trying to help somebody in trouble and I am probably stupid enough to do it again...

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Let''s all sit quietly at football games, applaud (softly) the opposition, concentrate on halftime snacks, or maybe they could walk about and sell them (the ball is out of play).. mmmm i think socher would be much better than way. There would be no problems on the sidewalks at aftertime, extra bottom of the nine, with the clock running out blah blah blah..

The point is - football is noisy, rowdy and dear I say it - aggressive. If you want armchair entertainment go watch baseball. But grown-ups should be able to detach aggression and "banter" during the game and behave themselves after the match.

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If you are giving banter to fans at a game and they give it back, then carry on and enjoy the ''banter''.  However if it gets to the point in which the other fans are giving you throat slitting gestures then you must be doing something wrong.  If you are also wearing a distinctive costume and they see you after the game, which is likely to happen, then you need to expect a punch.

I''m all for banter but what I am saying is that the banter must have been pretty fiesty for them to give someone throat slitting gestures during the game.

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