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barclaybabe

One minute silence

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Houston you can''t really be telling us that America went into Iraq to liberate the Kurds? I mean Turkey is an ally of the US and they are quite happily oppressing the Kurds while we speak.

Iraq fought Iran with US and UK backing. He over stepped the mark by invading Kuwait. From that moment on it was only a matter of time.

Interestingly it was the gas we (the UK and US) gave him that was then used on the Kurds.

Saddam turned into the monster we made him.

Davo

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[quote user="Davo"]Houston you can''t really be telling us that America went into Iraq to liberate the Kurds? I mean Turkey is an ally of the US and they are quite happily oppressing the Kurds while we speak.

Iraq fought Iran with US and UK backing. He over stepped the mark by invading Kuwait. From that moment on it was only a matter of time.

Interestingly it was the gas we (the UK and US) gave him that was then used on the Kurds.

Saddam turned into the monster we made him.

Davo[/quote]Interesting aside, when the RAF were based in Turkey patrolling the northern no fly zone to protect the Kurds they only flew 6 days a week, because on the seventh day the Turks were bombing them.How screwed up is that?

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Having backed Iraq in the war against Iran a cynical person might say that Saddam had outlived his usefulness to the USA and they gave him the green light to invade Kuwait, giving them the perfect excuse for invading Iraq in return. When Iraq first invaded Kuwait I seem to recall a female USA diplomat being interviewed and her response to what the USA thought of the invasion was something along the lines of "The USA is not interestd in inter Arab affairs".

Terrible as 9/11 was it sparked a totally illegal war against a soveriegn nation that posed no threat to the West, unfortunately thousands of innocent Iraqis have been slaughtered as a consequence. All the evidence points to Saudis being responsible for 9/11, yet so many people appear to have swallowed the line that it was Saddam.

And to our friend from Houston I say "You are taliking out of your arse"...

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[quote user="Houston Canary"]You do know Iran and Iraq were at war for a decade a while before that, don''t you?[/quote]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/21/Saddam_rumsfeld.jpgThe truth is a real sod sometimes. Herewith a photo from 1983, smack bang in the middle of that Iran-Iraq war, with someone whose name escapes me just for the moment shaking hands with evil butcher Saddam Hussein. Oh yes, now I remember, it''s Donald Rumsfeld, special envoy from the President of the USA. And the reason Rumsfeld is shaking hands with this sadistic mass murderer is very simple; the US was bankrolling Iraq on the morally and practically bankrupt principle of "My enemy''s enemy is my friend."

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I know we were allies with Iraq vs Iran, but you were allied with Stalin vs Germany. In both cases, good sided with evil to defeat and even worse evil. For the hand wringer crying that made Hussein what he is and let it happen, I guess you blame England for Stalin''s progroms.

That was not the point I was making, and everyone who has responded since then seems to have missed it or ignored it.

The point was that Iraq was a threat to the west, not because they night attack us, but because there was every reason to believe Hussein was going to do a Hitler and try to take over the entire Middle East and thus gain control of the world oil supply.

The other point hidden in there was the complete lack of action by the UN which was formed in large part on the motto of "Never Again" regarding genocide. Expecting them to do anything is mind bogglingly naive when you consider the genocides they have done nothing to prevent.

Take off your "I hate HC and I hate America" glasses and read my comments without blurring them with your emotions.

If the RAF shut down a day a week to let Turkey commit genocide, why isn''t it in the news more often? Seems like the kind of story some papers would lock onto with a death grip.

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Re: Minutes silence.

Please don''t. As much as the victims, and the families of the victims, of 9/11 deserve sympathy, support and respect; it''s time for this country (US) to move on.

That seems to me to be especially true for the NY/NJ/CT region (where I lived post 9/11).

Yes it was horrible and tragic, BUT we can honor the victims and America''s core values by rebuilding the site and stopping this anti-muslim "ground zero mosque" nonsense.

And yes we need to nail the b*****ds that did this, but they did not come from Iraq, nor are they in Iran.

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[quote user="Whittles Windmill"]As I''ve said,no need for a minutes silence but all this guardianista Yank bashing from the usual self loathing hypocritical lefties is pathetic.[/quote]What do you expect from a bunch of bed-wetting homosexuals?

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[quote user="Whittles Windmill"]As I''ve said,no need for a minutes silence but all this guardianista Yank bashing from the usual self loathing hypocritical lefties is pathetic.[/quote]Surely only Yanks getting involved in ''Yank bashing'' can be described as ''self loathing''?Bless you and your meaningless labels Arthur...............you stupid old right wing Nazi bigot [;)]

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[quote user="Houston Canary"]I know we were allies with Iraq vs Iran, but you were allied with Stalin vs Germany. In both cases, good sided with evil to defeat and even worse evil. For the hand wringer crying that made Hussein what he is and let it happen, I guess you blame England for Stalin''s progroms.

That was not the point I was making, and everyone who has responded since then seems to have missed it or ignored it.

The point was that Iraq was a threat to the west, not because they night attack us, but because there was every reason to believe Hussein was going to do a Hitler and try to take over the entire Middle East and thus gain control of the world oil supply.

The other point hidden in there was the complete lack of action by the UN which was formed in large part on the motto of "Never Again" regarding genocide. Expecting them to do anything is mind bogglingly naive when you consider the genocides they have done nothing to prevent.

Take off your "I hate HC and I hate America" glasses and read my comments without blurring them with your emotions.

If the RAF shut down a day a week to let Turkey commit genocide, why isn''t it in the news more often? Seems like the kind of story some papers would lock onto with a death grip.[/quote]What was the quote from Stalin?? Oh yes.... " Detroit won the war in the East "And you will be familiar with Uncle Sam...... pray tell who Good Ol Uncle Joe was ???Dude, this is why the world hates Americans..You lot are so spine chillingly thick !

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Problem is I do see both sides of the coin, I lived in the USA for 5 years and granted it was the Southern States. The general populace thinks World News is America and Canada. Your society is made up of wastefull people who dont give a damn about the resources on this planet, I mean come on in Texas 16 year old girls and boys do NOT need Chevy Trucks for little City runners do they ? Sure if your a ranch owner and need something all terrain or have a job where you need a flat back trucj go ahed, but a little city runner ?? You waste so much oil in petrol its sickening. Your former government ( Bush Jnr ) is perhaps more corrupt than any Government in recent history and if it had been any other country say France or Germany who had such a blatently rigged election it would be America banging on about democracy and saying how you can not rig an ellection. But what can we say now ? With the break down of the British Empire we live in a world controlled  by Pax Americana and have to deal with it. Unfortunatly its like putting a 5 year old in charge because the Americans dont have a scooby about world politics as they are isolationaist.Also i LOVE the whole religious intolerance.... HELLO America was founded by people leaving Europe to ESCAPE religious persecution so all he ideals founded by the original settlers has now been damned as America are now horribly anti Muslim.The only thing I can defend America on and clap them on the back for is Vietnam.Only without American involvement in Vietnam NATO would have fallen on its feet as France used it as a clause to get American aid and then bugged out as soon as the proverbile hit the fan.Houston , I guess what Im saying is dont argue something like this on a "partisan" English board. End of the day most of the peple on here probably dont know America well and do get predudice views, I happen to have a lot of American friends and some of the people I met in the USA were the nicest people and friends for life, however some of them were also niave like a child when it comes to things that happen outside of the USA and that is quite sad for a county that has taken on the duty to protect Western culture.

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Interesting points Nexus. I must admit to only knowing America and its populous from two holidays there and find them to be some of the most hospitable people I''ve met,and believe me I''ve travelled all over. I must say they are extremely naive to the bigger global picture but thats down to there to various things.

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[quote user="Shack Attack"][quote user="Whittles Windmill"]As I''ve said,no need for a minutes silence but all this guardianista Yank bashing from the usual self loathing hypocritical lefties is pathetic.[/quote]

Surely only Yanks getting involved in ''Yank bashing'' can be described as ''self loathing''?

Bless you and your meaningless labels Arthur...............you stupid old right wing Nazi bigot [;)]
[/quote]

LOL.Good ole Shack

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"Also i LOVE the whole religious intolerance.... HELLO America was founded by people leaving Europe to ESCAPE religious persecution so all he ideals founded by the original settlers has now been damned as America are now horribly anti Muslim"

It''s (hopefully only) a phase the right wing is going through... it wasn''t always so. Whatever you think of "W" he understood religious inclusion....

"Just days after the Twin Towers were destroyed in 2001, President George W. Bush set the tone that ought to govern U.S. attitudes in the New York mosque controversy today.

While visiting the Islamic Center of Washington, he declared that "the face of terror is not the true faith of Islam. ... Islam is peace. These terrorists don''t represent peace. They represent evil and war."

He went on to say that American Muslims "need to be treated with respect. In our anger and emotion, our fellow Americans must treat each other with respect."

Why Bush won''t speak up now on behalf of the Muslim community center at the center of the New York controversy, I don''t know.

But what he said then -- even as he was launching a war against the Taliban and al-Qaida -- ought to guide attitudes and policy today.

Our war is with radical Islamists who use terror and preach violent jihad -- not with the religion of Islam"

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Seems to me that most of the English have given up on the 2,000 year old book revised 400 years ago and now rely on the "Sun" and "Cosmo". When we now realise that the nearest planet that could perhaps send us messages is 2,500 light years away perhaps that is the way to go  and we sould give up on the USA and Middle Eastern "God". The English are, as usual, in advance of the rest of the World.

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Wow, this thread has it all... pretentious bull*shit, shock and indignation on behalf of other people, conspiracy theories, pedantry, someone asking for the thread to be locked or deleted because someone else posts an opinion outside of the status quo, and a good spot of lady-bullying into the bargain.For all that, and much more, this thread should go down in history as the Greatest Thread Ever.

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[quote user="Evil Monkey"]Wow, this thread has it all... pretentious bull*shit, shock and indignation on behalf of other people, conspiracy theories, pedantry, someone asking for the thread to be locked or deleted because someone else posts an opinion outside of the status quo, and a good spot of lady-bullying into the bargain.For all that, and much more, this thread should go down in history as the Greatest Thread Ever.[/quote]Would it be out of the question to ask for some sort of ''Pink ''Un Award Ceremony''? Like the "Golden Globes", or atleast the "BAFTA''s", but only a Pink ''Un equivalent? Like this :

http://cache2.asset-cache.net/xc/91151541.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=77BFBA49EF878921CC759DF4EBAC47D06EA3703654D84BF519BC63A468B10BB77D30AD28EF5AA526

But on a "realistic basis", maybe more this?...

http://www.barbwired.com/nadiaweb/nawl/photos/2007/08/04/an_empty_conference_room.JPG

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[quote user="Houston Canary"]Repecutions? Lost on that one although I was able to figure out what you meant bu escilate (escalate). Perhaps we play 9/11 up more than anyoner else does because it happened to us so it stung a little deeper than, say the July attacks on the London transit did a few years later. We can''t help it if the rest of the world gets caught up in our drama, that is on the rest of the world''s shoulders. Stop minding our busisness and you wouldn''t be so upset by it. Why not focus on the Congo and the real, on-going tragedy there? It''s not as galmorous or chic, but it''ll make you just as angry, and for a real reason. If you don''t realize Hussein was a threat to the west then you are uninformed. He should have been removed because of the genocides he engaged in against the Kurds. He had already shown aggression against Kuwait once, and messing with the oil supply would have a major impact on your own lifestyles, moch more than it would on mine since we get most of our imports from places beyond the Middle East. So yes, he was a threat., WMDs or not.[/quote]

 

The difference in attittude between 11 September and 7 July highlighted the difference between our 2 countries.  Londoners just shrugged their shoulders and complained about being late for work.

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[quote user="Yellow Rose of Texas"]"Also i LOVE the whole religious intolerance.... HELLO America was founded by people leaving Europe to ESCAPE religious persecution so all he ideals founded by the original settlers has now been damned as America are now horribly anti Muslim"

It''s (hopefully only) a phase the right wing is going through... it wasn''t always so. Whatever you think of "W" he understood religious inclusion....

"Just days after the Twin Towers were destroyed in 2001, President George W. Bush set the tone that ought to govern U.S. attitudes in the New York mosque controversy today.

While visiting the Islamic Center of Washington, he declared that "the face of terror is not the true faith of Islam. ... Islam is peace. These terrorists don''t represent peace. They represent evil and war."

He went on to say that American Muslims "need to be treated with respect. In our anger and emotion, our fellow Americans must treat each other with respect."

Why Bush won''t speak up now on behalf of the Muslim community center at the center of the New York controversy, I don''t know.

But what he said then -- even as he was launching a war against the Taliban and al-Qaida -- ought to guide attitudes and policy today.

Our war is with radical Islamists who use terror and preach violent jihad -- not with the religion of Islam"[/quote]Maybe if the US ceased to be the crutch on which Israeli hypocrisy leans the world would harbour less hatred for you.Would Iran feel the need for a nuclear weapon if the US sponsored Israeli capability ceased to exist? Would the moderate muslim hold the same resentment if they felt the US was treating all countries in the Middle East even handedly?You''ve largely brought this on yourselves.... and dragged the rest of us along for the ride.

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I love how nexus say Americans are thick in his grammatically handicapped, misspelled rant. We can''t be all THAT stupid if we are the defenders of the west, now can we. If so, what does that make you?

Get over the Bush election win already! Not one recount had Gore leading when the Supreme Court decision came down. And for corruption, you need look no further than his predecessor, horn dog Clinton.

The US did not team up with Stalin to fight WWII, we stayed out of it until Pearl Harbor. The next day, Hitler declared war on us, so Stalin was our ally by default.

Israeli hypocrisy?!?!?! WHAT!!!???? How dare they have a democracy and try to defend themselves from regional forces 100 times their size who want them wiped off the map! And how dare the US support that democracy on the tail of the holocaust. Who the hell do we think we are?

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I''m not saying it''s the right idea to have a silence, wether I said that earlier in the thread or not I''m not entirely sure. I am not condoning American behaviour and to be honest I don''t know enough to comment and hold a good discussion, my only point is not to belittle those who hold an opinion or merely ask a question on wether it''d be right.

For one our link to America is much stronger than to the other brutalities that have been muted throughout this thread.

It''s standard Pinkun, either reaction is average or posters are all too quick to get on someones back. The OP was only suggesting it, that''s all...

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wow wasnt really expecting this much response, by the looks of it. football related incidents should be kept with football and non related football issues should be seperate. but yeah why hasnt there been a minutes applaude for Roy waller. he certainly deserves one.

that will show he was loved by all in this city

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[quote user="barclaybabe"]

wow wasnt really expecting this much response, by the looks of it. football related incidents should be kept with football and non related football issues should be seperate. but yeah why hasnt there been a minutes applaude for Roy waller. he certainly deserves one.

that will show he was loved by all in this city

[/quote]Yeah, that annoyed me a little, was expecting it before the Watford game.

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[quote user="morty"][quote user="barclaybabe"]

wow wasnt really expecting this much response, by the looks of it. football related incidents should be kept with football and non related football issues should be seperate. but yeah why hasnt there been a minutes applaude for Roy waller. he certainly deserves one.

that will show he was loved by all in this city

[/quote]

Yeah, that annoyed me a little, was expecting it before the Watford game.
[/quote]

yeah same with me. i think something should be said. roy waller would of loved that

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Listen to you all jabbering on as if you think you know what you''re talking about.

This is thread is more fun to read than the self pitying morph suit joke.

Should we have a minutes silence at a 2nd tier Brit soccer game for a tragedy on American soil that passed 9 years ago? - Probably not

Do any of you know what the hell you are talking about? - Not a chance

What this!? Kindergarten politics for the under 5s?

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[quote user="Davo"]Silly Sausage,

I agree with what your saying. I prefer a minute of silence. The problem is when your at a football ground a minute of silence is not possible for most events outside of Remembrance Day because of those morons. I don''t like clapping for a minute however I prefer it to hearing the morons booing etc.

Davo[/quote]No argument from me, that''s fair enough.

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[quote user="Epic Beard Man"]Listen to you all jabbering on as if you think you know what you''re talking about.

This is thread is more fun to read than the self pitying morph suit joke.

Should we have a minutes silence at a 2nd tier Brit soccer game for a tragedy on American soil that passed 9 years ago? - Probably not

Do any of you know what the hell you are talking about? - Not a chance

What this!? Kindergarten politics for the under 5s?[/quote]Are you a professional snert?

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